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Jason Schreier : What I actually said on Kotaku Splitscreen about the PlayStation 5's specs

HawarMiran

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Chasing one pipedream after the next eh?

I don't get people here on GAF right now. It's so embarassing. I feel like people posting threads about how the PS5 might be better than the XBox due to the SSD primarily have to be 14 years old, right between beind a child and trying to find their own place in the world, hence console warring.
I get supporting your favorite thing, but what's happening here is just embarassing for any outsider looking in. I have no horse in this race, I just sold my PS4 a couple days ago because most games I'm interested in end up coming to PC anyways, and I never had an XBox. I'm also a dev and have a pretty good PC. I don't know much about hardware architecture in its entirety because I don't need to, but I know way more about actual game dev than most of you. Being misinformed or getting things wrong isn't what irks me at the time, it's the sheer willful ignorance. Why are so many here eager to prove themselves fools by acting as if they knew anything about everything because they watched some YouTube video, and then ignore valid points or misrepresent them? How can anyone have such an ego, as a grown adult none the less? No practical experience, no professional education, but at least you read some Tweets and watched some videos that make up for it!

First Teraflops are everything, now Teraflops don't matter because some noteable people said that SSDs are great. Cool. 99% of you don't know jack shit how game dev works, and that's fine, but please don't act as if you did. NVMe M2 SSDs have existed for PCs for years and while it is true that a closed system will be more efficient overall and they are doing intruiging things with their hardware, acting as if some SSD will revolutionize gaming as you know it is laughable and any PC gamer that owns a good PC will tell you that. I've seen posts here arguing that SSDs will somehow enable new levels of physics and mechanics.. it won't.
It will primarily make devs not care as much about loading optimization/compression. That's the gist of it. It's important, console peasants are going to be happy and that's what matters.

It's just a piece of tech, when it comes to game performance the XBox just performs better overall. That doesn't mean the PS5 will suck or doesn't have some advantages. It's just how the RTX 2080 Super is a bit better than the RTX 2080. You get a couple more frames per second, a couple more particles, a couple more pixels and that is it. You don't hear people arguing here, trying to spin the fact that the RTX 2080 consumes less energy as meaning that it will be stronger than the Super variant because less TDP means you might be able to OC more.

Invest in ideas, in ideals, in commitments and skills. Don't invest in PR talk and a bit of plastic and metal.
Play your games, if you want to, inform yourselves as much as is adequate, be willing to learn and otherwise just shut up.
PS5 will be great, XBox will be great. Games are, to your standards, also going to be great.

Thanks.

EDIT:
It's funny how Schreier says "all those people don't know about hardware" (with which I agree) and then proceeds to say that HW specs amount to nothing unless tested. HW specs are HW specs. It's physics. Just complex ones. Us not understanding all the complex interactions and therefore getting things wrong (which testing might show) doesn't mean specs become invalid.
Too edgy for my taste
 
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Silent Viper

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I can't wait to see DF comparisons for 3rd party games,I think PS5 will surprise in performance and be neck a neck with XsX,the 1st party will shine more than ever.

Games are made keeping specs of weaker machine in mind. So you will not see huge difference but PS5 will win load times but again not huge margin.
Ray tracing will shine on XSX but not as much as PS5
 
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DF, DryvBy and Mark Cerny all said TFLOPS isn't a good measurement for performance. It's flawed and makes people look foolish.

The reason? Simply you can make a 12TFLOP suck. That's why I only care about pure specs.




Vs.

What a load of BS 😁🤣
 

KlickKlack

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I feel like the PS5 is more customized than the XSX with all coprocessors that it has in the background handling audio, compression, etc. so I know most if not all of the GPU's power will be used for game graphics, I'm curious about both systems customizations.

you feel... but we know that XSX has co-processor too....

 
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vaibhavpisal

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I suppose a newer gen processor working at same frequency can outperform older gen processor due to architecture redesign.

This could be the situation. But we don't know for sure.
 

Psykodad

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Basically, he's reporting what developers are saying and I see no reason to doubt that.
Cerny knows what he's doing.

But the games. Sony completely dropped the ball with the deepdive.
It was more of a nosedive when it comes to PR, if anything.
 
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-kb-

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you feel... but we know that XSX has co-processor too....


It does but the PS5's audio processor is an actual beast, its got ~100-150GFLOPs of performance from what I remember.
 

sinnergy

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Earlier today, someone made an awful thread based on a lengthy conversation I had on the Kotaku Splitscreen podcast by transcribing a single line from it, and it led to 12 pages of truly embarrassing discourse. Since so many of you commented and reacted without actually listening to the episode, and since the thread's creator did such a piss-poor job of giving context, I took the time to type out an actual transcript. Here you go.

Oh, and, listen to Kotaku Splitscreen to get plenty of proper context, scoops, and most importantly, discussion about the weather.

(Note: the conversation started with me criticizing Sony's marketing plan for making the first-ever PS5 event a dry technical stream that was incomprehensible to most fans, as opposed to holding a fan-focused event followed by a GDC talk.)



Bring the goods....
The Sony spinning is lovely. Like I said . SSD wars have begun!
 

sinnergy

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It does but the PS5's audio processor is an actual beast, its got ~100-150GFLOPs of performance from what I remember.
Xbox one already has this , do you think Series X hasn’t ? They specially design there dsps for Xbox since ages , are whole threads on beyound 3D a developer forum which I visit the past 8-10 years.
 
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-kb-

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Xbox one already has this , do you think Series X hasn’t ? They specially design there dsps for Xbox since ages , are whole threads on beyound 3D a developer forum which I visit the past 8-10 years.

Xbox Ones SHAPE is around 10-15GFLOPS. ~1/10th the PS5s audio processor.

FYI this comes from B3D as well.
 
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sinnergy

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Xbox Ones SHAPE is around 10-15GFLOPS. ~1/10th the PS5s audio processor.

FYI this comes from B3D as well.
Yes, so why think MS hasn’t a juicy one this gen? They even split the memory for these tasks , they also care for audio, just saying.

I also think they show that graphics matters more, right call in the end. In a later date we hear them talk about audio .

But now it looks like PS5 is all about audio and SSD, which is weird for a gaming machine 🥴
 
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KlickKlack

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Cerny didn't talk about all the revolutionary things? The SSD is what is revolutionary. MS even says it'll be revolutionary. The only issue is that Xbox devs will be developing games for Xbone for another year and PCs with slow mechanical harddrives for the foreseeable future. Lowest common denominator.

The only issue for Sony is that ALL BIG AAA DEVS [DICE/ACTIVISION etc.] will be developing games for xbox one and PCs with slow HDDs for the next 3 years MINIMUM.

And because of this only PURE POWER is what matters and XSX has the power.

Have fun with your exclusives, in the time 99% of developed Games will run better on XSX
 

-kb-

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Yes, so why think MS hasn’t a juicy one this gen? They even split the memory for these tasks , they also care for audio, just saying.

I also think they show that graphics matters more, right call in the end. In a later date we hear them talk about audio .

But now it looks like PS5 is all about audio and SSD, which is weird for a gaming machine 🥴

They obviously have a audio processor but its probably just AMD true audio and similar to shape.

The fact that Microsoft is touting static offline computation of 3D audio whilst Sony is talking about doing it in real time should show you how the priorities and power of the audio solutions differ.
 

thelastword

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I think this is Sony managing hype levels. They will let the developers do the talking over time. If the PS5 is truly revolutionary,and Devs starting showing the things they can do with it, time will tell. nothing wrong with being under hyped.
Well, I'll tell you this, hype never sold an XBOX console or exclusive...
 

Markness

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He is an arrogant dope that reports for a "progressive" website that unfortunately has video games as its main focus. I am pretty sure this rag and the many others similar to it are getting paid by someone like George Soros. They don't even like video games, they're just here to make sure to ruin video games with their ideology.
 

Tekkie

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Ah of course, Jason's understanding of tech specs is vastly superior to the mob's don't you see


We don't REALLY get it, it's not as easy as just comparing number....oh no, wait it is. This backend argument worked up until about PS3 and even then, not all that much.
 
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mcjmetroid

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Ah Jason Schreier - the Dave Meltzer of gaming journalism.

Is it possible at this point that people are just feeding him bullshit sometimes to throw him off?

If I was Sony or Microsoft and wanted to throw my competition off the scent I'd talk to Jason and tell him the opposite to my plan.
 
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Stilton Disco

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The more I read about the tech inside the two, the more it seems like MS have made an incredibly powerful PC, while Sony have made a ridiculously fast Console, which is actually a very nice change compared to last gen's near identical 'weak PCs' that made the performance of 99% of games totally predictable.

I fully expect the XSX to perform better at launch with multiplats, and it may well always have an edge, because it is an absolute beast, but I would not be at all surprised to see that gap close or even reverse as the generation goes on, and for PS5 exclusives, that are designed from the ground up for it's more esoteric tech, to blow anything on XSX out of the water.

It's why I think Sony buggered it so badly at the reveal. In raw numbers it's a slight disappointment, so they absolutely needed to show us actual games utalising that tech properly to make up for that. Instead, well, it looks bloody bad right now.
 
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sinnergy

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They obviously have a audio processor but its probably just AMD true audio and similar to shape.

The fact that Microsoft is touting static offline computation of 3D audio whilst Sony is talking about doing it in real time should show you how the priorities and power of the audio solutions differ.
Dude you are talking about audio 🤪 it’s a gaming machine .. most will play with a cheap set. But have a 4K tv.
 
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-kb-

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Dude you are talking about audio 🤪 it’s a gaming machine .. most will play with a cheap set. But have a 4K tv.

Your the one who started this not me. The audio improvement will be huge for everyone, its a literal beast of a audio processor, something I thought xbox fans cared about because of SHAPE but I guess because xbox is on the back foot now it doesn't matter.
 
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LMJ

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For me personally Jason's personal opinions about the specs mean squat, but if what he says about the devs is true than that's actually really interesting...

Again hes a little weasel, but he also clearly has multiple connections in the gaming business...
 

KlickKlack

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But now it looks like PS5 is all about audio and SSD, which is weird for a gaming machine 🥴

i was first thinking by watching Sony show that Sony has developed the fastest Walkman on the planet,🤔

high-fidelity aufio + fast ssd for insta play of you song colection... but on the end he clearly says it was about ps5... 😊
 

KlickKlack

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The more i read about the tech imside the two, the more it seems like MS have made an incredibly powerful PC, while Sony have made a ridiculously fast Console,


lol nice try

90% of tech inside XSX are new developed tech extra for XSX.
There is nothing comparable on PC today.

 

replicant-

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I think the xbox fans wont be happy when DF comparisons come out. I'm expecting a 1800p vs 4k 60fps at best in xbox's favor. Thats pretty insignificant. And often times I see them running identically.

I wouldn't call that insignificant. Native 4K on a 4K screen will always be better. We also need to consider IQ. Yes, it could be 1800p v 2160p in tandem with improved IQ on the XSX.

Time will tell and I'm picking both consoles up at launch. At this stage the PS5 will be for exclusives with the XSX being the "main" console.

No matter what exciting times.
 

-kb-

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lol nice try

90% of tech inside XSX are new developed tech extra for XSX.
There is nothing comparable on PC today.


Nearly everything in that list is already on PCs or is not relevant to PCs. The XSX is a beast there’s no need to post bullshit about it.
 
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Stilton Disco

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lol nice try

90% of tech inside XSX are new developed tech extra for XSX.
There is nothing comparable on PC today.


Reading through that article, and I'm seeing a lot of bells and whistles, many of which aren't on PC yet, but actual unique tech that won't be available anywhere else and have a significant impact on game performance and capabilities? Not so much.

Don't get me wrong, it's an amazing system, but it's an evolution on what they've been doing this gen and in the PC space generally, while the PS5 is taking some weird risks with tech, that we simply won't be able to judge as to whether it was a good idea or not, for a couple of years yet.
 
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For real i never heard a single one of you mofos using the phrase "terraflop" before Xbox made it a big deal.

This interview is not shill spin, it's just disambiguation, sure there's a bit of hearsay, but he also legitimately saying that there's more to it than raw numbers.

And really, everyone who just decided to wrap up all their ideas in the straight comparison of a number they barely understand, well, y'all should have known you were being hasty to begin with~

Watch the video again, this SSD isn't just fast, it's entire orders of magnitude faster than previous drives, he says the games can render scenes in the time it takes to turn your character, there's zero reading times.. it's different, and now you've nailed your colours to the mast you're not willing to walk it back and say "wait and see".
 
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tryDEATH

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it is amusing to see some "fans" angry that developers like ps5 more than xsx 😂😬
Nice episode

What is amusing is that this is a one sided PR blitz from PS's front to try and do damage control.

You got developers that are literally coming out and acting like fanbois going as far as proclaiming it as the better console abandoning any professionalism or neutralism. It just looks so sad and pathetic. This is some stuff you lose respect for people over.
 

Neur4lN01s3

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Lol random devs working on both are doing sony damage control ? :

well, seems like you need to learn how resize pics.
Yes GPU is 20% better (Ps5 is not at sustained 10 TFlops, so XSX will have 20-30% better power, and faster memory, and faster cpu, etc)

he is a developer of 8-bit and 16-bit-style 2D role-playing games. who cares what he think about 3D performance?
 
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Psykodad

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Does nobody find it even a bit curious and strange that you primarily have developers connected to Sony and the odd outside dev coming in support of the PS5 looking like they are trying to do damage control going as much as saying its the better console.

We didn't see any sort of similar PR push when MS revealed their info. This really looks like huge damage control. This is a journalist that has to apologize to the mob for them taking him out of context and being rounded up by devs to put in a good word and clean up PS5 image. Red flags everywhere.
Honestly though, Sony's studios are among the creme-de-la-creme in the industry and they melt brains throughout a generation.

They know what they're saying and it's quite funny to see people act like they talk out of their ass.
 
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Bitmap Frogs

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I mean, this is the same bullshit we see every console generation. Whoever has the weaker machine puts on a media blitz to explain why the inferior machine might in fact be equal or better. C'mon no one remembers the billions of transistors and the power of the cloud? It's like y'all were born yesterday or something.

So far the only time it didn't play like that was with the PS3. Technically more powerful than the 360 but architecturally a unusable mess. If you wanna put forward that 48 cu's are inefficient and 12.3 is only theoretical and the reality is that the 3X won't pull more than 10 or 11 realistically do that but don't bullshit around with "the power of the api".
 
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Agnostic2020

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well, seems like you need to learn how resize pics.
Yes GPU is 20% better (Ps5 is not at sustained 10 TFlops, so XSX will have 20-30% better power, and faster memory, and faster cpu, etc)

he is a developer of 8-bit and 16-bit-style 2D role-playing games. who cares what he think about 3D performance?
Again the down clock in frequency is 2% to reduce the power draw by 10%. So 10.08tf to 10.28tf so 15 to 18% gpu difference. Memory is better on ps5 as there is no allocation of that 16 gb to os due to ps5 ssd reaching 25gb/s for os tasks .

You will see soon bro .dont get mad at me when devs like ps5 more lol
 
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cyber69

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Yes, so why think MS hasn’t a juicy one this gen? They even split the memory for these tasks , they also care for audio, just saying.

I also think they show that graphics matters more, right call in the end. In a later date we hear them talk about audio .

But now it looks like PS5 is all about audio and SSD, which is weird for a gaming machine 🥴

They care so much that they split the memory pool in half while also reducing the bandwidth. :messenger_loudly_crying:
 
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Neur4lN01s3

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Again the down clock in frequency is 2% to reduce the power draw by 10%. So 10.08tf to 10.28tf so 15 to 18% gpu difference. Memory is better on ps5 as there is no allocation of that 16 gb to os due to ps5 ssd reaching 25gb/s for os tasks .

you are wrong, frequency/power needed is not a linear function, you are quoting cerny without understanding his words, you have to balance cpu and gpu in ps5, so if you need cpu, you will underclock the gpu, and if you exceeds in power consuption, than you have to underclock ANOTHER TIME to stay in you power budget. this is how balancing works in ps5. I believe that its GPU is more tied to 9.2 TFlop than 10, most of the time

memory in ps5 is a lot slower, it is connected with a slower bus, 256 bit vs 320 bit on XSX, period. Even PS5 need memory for CPU and FOR OS, so we'll see similar splitting, with gpu using 10-11, max 12 GB. do you understand this? the difference is that on XSX the split is fixed, in ps5 can be a little less, a little more on gpu
 
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DForce

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you are wrong, frequency/power needed is not a linear function, you are quoting cerny without understanding his words, you have to balance cpu and gpu in ps5, so if you need cpu, you will underclock the gpu, and if you exceeds in power consuption, than you have to underclock ANOTHER TIME to stay in you power budget. this is how balancing works in ps5. I believe that its GPU is more tied to 9.2 TFlop than 10, most of the time

memory in ps5 is a lot slower, it is connected with a slower but, 256 bit vs 320 bit on XSX, period. Even PS5 need memory for CPU and FOR OS, so we'll see similar splitting, with gpu using 10-11, max 12 GB. do you understand this? the difference is that on XSX the split is fixed, in ps5 can be a little less, a little more on gpu

How does it stay at 9.2 most of the time when they can stay at 10.2 without any drops unless the worst case scenario occurs?

You can't talk about what cerny says and then ignore what he said about the GPU usage.

What you also fail to mention during his presentation is that the SSD allows for bigger chunks of data to be sent to the memory, faster than what's on the XsX. I'm not sure if XsX has this configuration, but as stated in the PS5 presentation, moving data at such a fast pace can create a bottleneck, and that was fixed by their custom flash controller. It looks like that the direct RAM comparison is slower on the PS5, but with the SSD, the PS5's memory solution appears much faster.
 

Filthy Casual

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These whole discussions have been an absolute embarrassment.

The way I see it is:

Sony revealed specs, Xbox fanboys were overjoyed that their box had the most teraflops etc. Finally they could have the laugh after the tonking they got last gen. They were obviously in pain during this period.

Cue people (lots of developers) praising the design of PS5 and some of its 'secret sauce', particularly the SSD which could actually change the game a bit and close the gap between the consoles, and perhaps even give PS5 the edge over Xbox in certain areas.

This enraged Xbox fanboys who have done all they can to try to diminish these claims, seemingly believing that it's all marketing fluff and people are in Sony's pockets etc. YOU'RE JUST MOVING THE GOALPOSTS!

Hence all the bickering and fanboy nonsense.

Can't people just accept that both consoles are very powerful pieces of kit and we will ALL benefit. There's no losers.
 
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Neur4lN01s3

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How does it stay at 9.2 most of the time when they can stay at 10.2 without any drops unless the worst case scenario occurs?

No, the 10.2 is the better, overclocked scenario. in reality when the GPU goes 10.2, the CPU slow down and viceversa. (Dynamic frequency)
and if power consumption will go over too much, it slow down again (power throttling)

so if cpu needs to work, it take the priority and gpu slow down, but if power consumption is too much, both will underclock to stay in power budget.

hope it's clear, now

.
What you also fail to mention during his presentation is that the SSD allows for bigger chunks of data to be sent to the memory, faster than what's on the XsX. I'm not sure if XsX has this configuration, but as stated in the PS5 presentation, moving data at such a fast pace can create a bottleneck, and that was fixed by their custom flash controller. It looks like that the direct RAM comparison is slower on the PS5, but with the SSD, the PS5's memory solution appears much faster.

SSD can load level faster, a bit faster. ok
but when it have to feed GDDR6, on PS5 it uses a 256 bit 448 GB/s bus, already busy for raytracing ops and shaders ops and OS ops and CPU ops
on XSX the SSD uses an 320 bit 560 GB/s bus already busy for raytracing ops and shaders ops and OS ops and CPU ops

so the bottleneck here will be the inferior 256 bit 448 GB/s bus on PS5
you have to accept and understand that: in the same bus, in the same time, billions of operations will occur, ssd is a slow, minimal part of the equation
 
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