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[Heisenberg007]

mod update: This has been refuted publicly by a credible source.



mod update end.

















A recent Microsoft Game Stack presentation revealed an interesting bit of information regarding Xbox Series X's ram usage.

At the 3:35 mark, the presenter explains that all 6 GB of slower ram (at 336 GB/s) is reserved for the OS. And only the 10 GB of higher-speed ram (560 GB/s) is reserved for games. Earlier, at the time of launch, it was marketed and reported that only 2.5 GB of the slower 6 GB ram was reserved for OS, which is apparently not the case.

Direct quote: "An interesting choice was made here, such that 10 GB of memory were dedicated towards game titles and 6 GB were dedicated towards the operating system."

This distinction is also visible in the presentation slide, where the slower ram at 336 GB/s or LMI is termed as Operating System Memory, while the faster 560 GB/s memory or HMI is called as Game Title Memory.

 

[Barakov]

 

[Cockles & Whelks]

DJ Khalid incoming?

 

[phil_t98]

Seems like a sensible choice to be honest

 

[onesvenus]

I saw that session live and thought it was an error. I was just looking at the questions posted to see if he clarified this point but can't find them.
It's quite crazy reserving 6GB for the OS and only having 10GB for games

 

[Heisenberg007]

Seems like a sensible choice to be honest

Genuinely curious: What added benefits do you think this strategy and implementation will have, as compared to the usual method of having a unified memory pool?

 

[assurdum]

I'm a bit confuse...so CPU bandwidth speed is used just for OS? Uh. What about CPU bandwidth speed for the games? Seems a nonsense to me

 

[Heisenberg007]

I saw that session live and thought it was an error. I was just looking at the questions posted to see if he clarified this point but can't find them.
It's quite crazy reserving 6GB for the OS and only having 10GB for games

Yeah, at first, I thought it was an error, and the guy just said what he didn't mean to say. But they also had that presentation slide. That drastically reduces the chance of it being an error or oversight.

 

[Entroyp]

Nice find OP

 

[Banjo64]

Series S has identical OS, even at the same resolution, but only 10gb RAM.

Any slide on that?

 

[Heisenberg007]

I saw that session live and thought it was an error. I was just looking at the questions posted to see if he clarified this point but can't find them.
It's quite crazy reserving 6GB for the OS and only having 10GB for games

Also, there was a rumor that MS will allow XSX to be used as a PC (a similar rumor surfaced last month again but I can't find the link). If that rumor is true, perhaps that's why they have allocated so much ram for the operating system? But I'm not sure if it's a good choice or bad choice, considering the potential impact it may have on future game titles. The benefit in this case (the ability to use XSX as a PC) seems minuscule for gamers.

 

[Godot25]

When you combine it with efficiency of Sampler Feedback Streaming I think it makes sense.

And of course, splitting a RAM pool is primarily driven by cost. OS RAM does not need to be as fast...

 

[M1chl]

Given how memory is allocated in Windows I wouldn't be surprised if the "GameTitle Memory" was like a VRAM and that second one as a RAM. However that's just my speculation. I haven't read more than just an OP.

 

[reksveks]

Weird mixed messaging but it does happen.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Series S has identical OS, even at the same resolution, but only 10gb RAM.

Any slide on that?

Not at the moment, but devs have complained about the RAM situation on the Series S before (could this be the reason why?).

But I am a bit confused because Series S also has a split memory pool for 2 GB, which I thought would be reserved for OS.

 

[onesvenus]

When you combine it with efficiency of Sampler Feedback Streaming I think it makes sense.

And of course, splitting a RAM pool is primarily driven by cost. OS RAM does not need to be as fast...

What it doesn't make sense is having 6GB reserved by the OS. Even windows doesn't require so much RAM

 

[Exanthus]

Surely this can't be right?

 

[Heisenberg007]

When you combine it with efficiency of Sampler Feedback Streaming I think it makes sense.

And of course, splitting a RAM pool is primarily driven by cost. OS RAM does not need to be as fast...

I think the point isn't that OS will need faster RAM. I think the point is whether 10 GB ram is going to be enough for future game titles or not.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Surely this can't be right?

Does feel a bit weird, tbh, but this is official documentation.

 

[Bernkastel]

Series S has identical OS, even at the same resolution, but only 10gb RAM.

Any slide on that?

Seems to be a mixed messaging. This is literally the same OS as Xbox One. No way does this OS need 6 GB RAM.
Inside Xbox Series X: the full specs • Eurogamer.net

"Memory performance is asymmetrical - it's not something we could have done with the PC," explains Andrew Goossen "10 gigabytes of physical memory [runs at] 560GB/s. We call this GPU optimal memory. Six gigabytes [runs at] 336GB/s. We call this standard memory. GPU optimal and standard offer identical performance for CPU audio and file IO. The only hardware component that sees a difference in the GPU."

In terms of how the memory is allocated, games get a total of 13.5GB in total, which encompasses all 10GB of GPU optimal memory and 3.5GB of standard memory. This leaves 2.5GB of GDDR6 memory from the slower pool for the operating system and the front-end shell. From Microsoft's perspective, it is still a unified memory system, even if performance can vary. "In conversations with developers, it's typically easy for games to more than fill up their standard memory quota with CPU, audio data, stack data, and executable data, script data, and developers like such a trade-off when it gives them more potential bandwidth," says Goossen.

They have said multiple times that the OS needs 2.5 GB of RAM.
Update :

If true, it'd be a bad thing -- unless MS is planning to do something unique with their OS to utilize all that 6 GB of RAM.

As per previous reports, games on XSX would use 13.5 GB of RAM (10 GB of high-speed ram and 3.5 GB of slow-speed ram). According to this new information, games on XSX will use just 10 GB of high-speed ram.

Turns out its not true.

 

[Stare-Bear]

Microsoft isn’t exactly known for writing sleek, streamlined software.

 

[Godot25]

I think the point isn't that OS will need faster RAM. I think the point is whether 10 GB ram is going to be enough for future game titles or not.

Did you saw what SFS and whole XVA is doing to RAM usage?

 

[Exanthus]

Seems to be a mixed messaging. This is literally the same OS as Xbox One. No way does this OS need 6 GB RAM.
Inside Xbox Series X: the full specs • Eurogamer.net

They have said multiple times that the OS needs 2.5 GB of RAM.

6 GB Ram for an OS is just overkill.
There's been no changes to the OS other than quick resume... And some minor QOL changes.

 

[McCheese]

I thought the low resolution dashboard on the Xbox was due to OS ram limitations? So none of this makes sense.

 

[Elog]

If this is true, this will come and haunt them when the real next-gen multiplats arrive. There will be texture resolution differences if games are properly optimised.

10GB plus SFS is much smaller than 13-14GB and PS5 I/O complex in terms of workable VRAM pool.

 

[Exanthus]

I thought the low resolution dashboard on the Xbox was due to OS ram limitations? So none of this makes sense.

I forget the dashboards 1080p

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Weird choice since the OS needs maybe half that. 10 GB of very fast RAM are probably enough for 1440p though (VXA goes brrrrrr). RTX 3080 has the same amount (but at 760 GB/s).

 

[Popup]

Another 6?

 

[Md Ray]

10GB for games... Then it's just doubling from the 2013 Xbox One's 5GB allocated for games.

 

[NEbeast]

Could it be for quick resume?

 

[Godot25]

Could it be for quick resume?

Nope. QR stuff is thrown to the SSD when you are out of the game. That's why players have only 802GB available

 

[Bernd Lauert]

10GB for games... Then it's just doubling from the 2013 Xbox One's 5GB allocated for games.

Only a doubling, but they increased I/O by a billion percent or so. It's the same reason why the most recent graphics cards aren't absolutely packed with VRAM. It's simply not needed.

 

[Xyphie]

I doubt the OS uses 6GB as that would leave only 4GB on the XSS, making it unable to run games in BC mode. Probably just miscommunicated or a larger initial reserve on XSX. Giving devs more RAM overtime is easier than taking it back.

 

[polybius80]

Seems to be a mixed messaging. This is literally the same OS as Xbox One. No way does this OS need 6 GB RAM.
Inside Xbox Series X: the full specs • Eurogamer.net

They have said multiple times that the OS needs 2.5 GB of RAM.

to be fair "requiring" a certain amount of memory is not the same as "reserving", the OS may require as you say 2.5 GB but maybe MS is reserving all that memory for something they are planning and maybe the memory can be "negotiated" per game, is not necesarily a strict usage there may be a feature in the future that will be disabled when a game that uses that memory is running

 

[Heisenberg007]

to be fair "requiring" a certain amount of memory is not the same as "reserving", the OS may require as you say 2.5 GB but maybe MS is reserving all that memory for something they are planning and maybe the memory can be "negotiated" per game, is not necesarily a strict usage there may be a feature in the future that will be disabled when a game that uses that memory is running

Assuming the information is indeed correct, what you said makes a lot of sense to me.

 

[Bonfires Down]

Hmm, maybe it's temporary thing until they figure out exactly how much they need for the OS and then they will give back the rest.

 

[Vae_Victis]

That seems... quite excessive? It still has to be RAM games can use in particular circumstances. I have to assume it is probably categorized like this because it is "optimized" for the system (as in, it's not idea for games), but it can't be 100% reserved for the OS.

Weird choice since the OS needs maybe half that. 10 GB of very fast RAM are probably enough for 1440p though (VXA goes brrrrrr). RTX 3080 has the same amount (but at 760 GB/s).

That's not a very good analogy, since on the XSX that also acts as the "regular" RAM, of which in high end PCs there are dozens of additional GB - not just the VRAM.

Still, as I wrote, I really doubt this is the case, it doesn't make much logical sense and it would be completely nonsensical form a design point of view.

 

[Mr. PlayStation]

Is this a good or a bad thing?

 

[DenchDeckard]

I think this will be debunked and the error explained shortly. It makes no sense to use the full 6GB when it is 2.5GB on the One X, but it does make sense to have the OS on the slow ram and leave the full speed for games. So that is good at least.

Let's see how many pages we can get to of DOOM before this gets clarified haha

 

[Heisenberg007]

Is this a good or a bad thing?

If true, it'd be a bad thing -- unless MS is planning to do something unique with their OS to utilize all that 6 GB of RAM.

As per previous reports, games on XSX would use 13.5 GB of RAM (10 GB of high-speed ram and 3.5 GB of slow-speed ram). According to this new information, games on XSX will use just 10 GB of high-speed ram.

 

[Jaguar Victory]

I'm pretty sure the 10GB is used for VRAM and the other 6 for everything else including OS, CPU, etc.

 

[clintar]

I'm guessing the term dedicated towards operating system doesn't necessarily mean it can't be used for games

 

[Bernd Lauert]

That's not a very good analogy, since on the XSX that also acts as the "regular" RAM, of which in high end PCs there are dozens of additional GB - not just the VRAM.

The information in the OP suggests that the 10 GB effectively act as VRAM, since everything else is done on the slower 6 GB.

 

[CrustyBritches]

It's already been explained and posted here. 2.5GB for the OS, 3.5GB for system memory, and 10GB for VRAM. Sounds like the CPU can use the GPU-optimal memory or Standard memory, but the GPU is locked into the 10GB memory space.

Are you trying to say XSX has only 6-7GB VRAM?

 

[cormack12]

Sounds like maybe the guy has misinterpreted it (or simplified it) depending on how you view it. It might be right, but I'm guessing the massive storms on twitter will get the truth today. Maybe it's something obtuse like the 6GB is accessible but you have to go through a virtual OS layer to get to it so he just called it the OS RAM.

 

[Heisenberg007]

I'm pretty sure the 10GB is used for VRAM and the other 6 for everything else including OS, CPU, etc.

Yeah, agreed. But does that mean that games cannot access from the 6 GB pool because that is reserved for everything else? Because previously we thought that games will have access to up to 13.5 GB of RAM

I think that's what the confusion is about.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Given how memory is allocated in Windows I wouldn't be surprised if the "GameTitle Memory" was like a VRAM and that second one as a RAM. However that's just my speculation. I haven't read more than just an OP.

Even in this case you have to do non trivially cheap memory copies to move data from the slow pool to the fast one which wastes bandwidth and time.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Yeah, agreed. But does that mean that games cannot access from the 6 GB pool because that is reserved for everything else? Because previously we thought that games will have access to up to 13.5 GB of RAM

I think that's what the confusion is about.

Maybe its the OS and other things like sound and CPU and 10GB is purely VRAM which a 3080 proves is more than enough. If its the other way and they are using some of the 10GB for sound and CPU cycles etc then that would be some form of negative, how much I do not know. I don't expect these consoles to push native 4K often, and thats when it could become a problem I think.

 

[mrmeh]

Like mentioned briefly in the tweet by leviathan gamer. The 6GB will be for the CPU stuff inc OS, the 10GB fast stuff is for the graphics (textures etc) . CPU memory does not need to be super fast with very small gains by using faster ram, Graphics card memory needs all the speed (memory bandwidth is speed * bus width) it can get.

Can we stop going overboard when someone makes a minor mistake on a power point?

 

[Panajev2001a]

Like mentioned briefly in the tweet by leviathan gamer. The 6GB will be for the CPU stuff inc OS, the 10GB fast stuff is for the graphics (textures etc) . CPU memory does not need to be super fast with very small gains by using faster ram, Graphics card memory needs all the speed (memory bandwidth is speed * bus width) it can get.

Can we stop going overboard when someone makes a minor mistake on a power point?

Sure, but it also means that there will be memory bandwidth waste to transfer data from one memory address space to the other if the GPU could not access anything beyond the 10 GB pool.