Little Chicken
Member
We're at least two gens out from this running on console with an acceptable framerate and resolution imo.
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DF: Dragon's Dogma 2 Path Tracing: It's Real, It Works and Here's How It Looks
- Thread starter Leonidas
- Start date
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
Not really because even an rtx 4070 can run this at 30fps. Not the best but with DLSS and Frame gen you can seal up those cracks
DavidGzz
Member
This is exactly it. And idk if the pro will even be able to handle this. They know this so are downplaying it. They'll need a PS6 to get a taste and all of a sudden it will be the next coming.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Nah, I think PS6 could do that if hardware-accelerated ray tracing makes big strides in the next few years. It was just an afterthought back when it first came onto the scene in 2018, but now we have some good hardware that can leverage the tech at affordable prices.
If the PS6 manages to have ray tracing 2-3x as performant as the Pro, then we’re looking at perhaps something with better ray tracing capabilities than a 4090 in a console. By then, we’ll be at the RTX 6090 which will be several times faster. Path tracing will be feasible on consoles, albeit at lower resolutions. Up to 1440p.
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Schmendrick
Member
Which is probably for the best because you still don`t get that this is about the tech itself and nothing else, no one here is discussing the asset quality of the underlying game......
Your whole bullshit in this thread summarized:
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Gameplay Gods Bless
Member
CPU?
Schmendrick
Member
I`d tend to agree, but I´ll hold my tongue until I´ve seen what Sony`s/AMD's DLSS competitors can do. With competent upscaling and frame generation + maybe dedicated RT hardware...who knows.
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rofif
Can’t Git Gud
Because it usually looks similar. That’s it.
Raster techniques came a very long way. Veeeery long way and rt impact is lessened because of that.
And rt use is usually lower res, grainy or mirrors have very blurry reflections. All that can be easily overcomed if devs try and implement other techniques.
Look at uncharted 4 or tlou2. Baked in rt still looks better than something that can be achieved in time but we are getting there.
It’s not end all be all. Not with taster tech evolved.
Buggy Loop
Member
Your 2 examples are static sets
Of course rasterization can deliver on those, with god knows how many artists
Ray tracing works best in dynamic worlds where artists can’t light huge amounts of assets for all times of day, etc. AND would still look more accurate with static scenes. AND full RT eventually you drop these painstakingly boring jobs that puts lights in games.
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rofif
Can’t Git Gud
Yeah of course. I don't disagree with that.
Just saying that artists and even hand crafted/placed lighting can get better effects than the grainy reality
Schmendrick
Member
So you actually realize that you`re talking about very specific completely static and limited scope scenarios where handcrafted static lighting can approach, or even look better, than RT, with a gazillion manhours of tinkering ofc...........and yet you`re constantly generalizing about "RT bad".
And you don`t see the contradiction here?
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rofif
Can’t Git Gud
I know what I am talking about.So you actually realize that you`re talking about very specific completely static and limited scope scenarios where handcrafted static lighting can approach, or even look better, than RT, with a gazillion manhours of tinkering ofc.......and yet you`re constantly generalizing about "RT bad".....
And you don`t see the contradiction here?
Still - rt is nice but not some huge step for me
Schmendrick
Member
uh-huh.
Remind me of that the next time you praise Forspoken`s graphics, 30 fps or static corridor lighting.
being able to have lighting surpassing the very best artists could do in limited static environments in dynamic open-ended environments and at a fraction of the time investment is not a "huge step"......
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
One thing I will say, however. Ray tracing shouldn't supplant artistic license. In some cases, the results of unrealistic lighting and shadows are an artistic choice to make a scene more dramatic or poignant. I'm perfectly fine with that and wish game devs didn't just toggle RT on and call it a day. In some examples, it can kill off the atmosphere of a scene.
It's a bit like in movies where the lighting is often entirely artificial but still looks awesome because you had the director and lighting engineers work together to cook up the scenes.
In normal scenes or in regular gameplay videos, sure, go nuts with ray tracing. In cutscenes or pivotal moments though? Darken or brighten whatever the fuck you want with whatever color you feel adds depth and punch to your scenes. Realism be damned.
It's a bit like in movies where the lighting is often entirely artificial but still looks awesome because you had the director and lighting engineers work together to cook up the scenes.
In normal scenes or in regular gameplay videos, sure, go nuts with ray tracing. In cutscenes or pivotal moments though? Darken or brighten whatever the fuck you want with whatever color you feel adds depth and punch to your scenes. Realism be damned.
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Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Damn!!!
I really dont get how people can say RayTracing is useless or they dont see a difference.
This shit is stark as fuck.
Baking an open world game that has dynamic ToD would increase the file size massively.....likely wouldnt still catch enough.
Even one of the best raster open world games of last gen could have benefitied from a "better"GI implementation.
ITs basically impossible to showcase to someone until you do a side by side, because to everyones eye, what they see looks right then they see a "more right" version and then they understand why.
Forbidden West is one of the best looking open world games out there.
But the scene above is obviously lit wrong.
DavidGzz
Member
i9-13900K 3.00 GHz
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
I don't care. you have forbidden west of hogwarts legacy with no RT and they look amazing.uh-huh.
Remind me of that the next time you praise Forspoken`s graphics, 30 fps or static corridor lighting.
being able to have lighting surpassing the very best artists could do in limited static environments in dynamic open-ended environments and at a fraction of the time investment is not a "huge step"......
RT makes the lighting more proper and as it should be.... but in the end it just looks different a bit. Not really better or worse for the most part.
And yes. Forspoken look great. i dont understand complaints.
And I don't get what's your idiotic 30fps remark here. Nothing wrong with good 30fps
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Sure, but it's often pointed out that the lighting in Forbidden West is one of its weaker points along with the SSR on bodies of water. The texture work, artwork, foliage, terrains, and character models are great. Lighting and shadows could definitely use some improvements though. Interestingly, GG did dabble in RT shadows for the PC version but determined it was too time-consuming to implement it and dropped it.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
It's all solvable 20 years ago. FB already does multiple bakes for different times of day. And you can do software gi in raster games anway.
and rt is better because forbidden west got bad water reflections?
Half life 2 had perfect off screen reflections 20 years ago. On every water surface. I just replayed the game. Planar reflections or not, it's perfect.
No matter the scene or puddle, it's always perfect in 20 years old half life 2
So using cheap ssr for water reflections is just lack of care. And putting heavy RT on it that's also blurry is also a lack of care.
Schmendrick
Member
At some point Mario 64 looked amazing, too, doesn´t change the fact that it doesn`t exactly shine in comparison to a modern mario. In both of your examples the lighting ranges from good to absolutely terrible on a scene by scene basis because artists do have neither unlimited time nor unlimited file size......
Considering the comparison pictures and videos from the very first days of CP2077 PT implementation to this example in DD2 or the simple fact that we just established, and to which even you agreed, that RT is the only option for dynamic environments:
It´s like you looked at some badly denoised low spec RT implementation on consoles 2 years ago and decided that exatly that is RT and that it will never be any different and you`ve stopped looking at any comparison shots every since...or maybe you`ve even gauged your eyes out.
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rofif
Can’t Git Gud
you really are dumb. RT is not the only option for dynamic environments. You have to be a limited fool to think that.At some point Mario 64 looked amazing, too, doesn´t change the fact that it doesn`t exactly shine in comparison to a modern mario. In both of your examples the lighting ranges from good to absolutely terrible on a scene by scene basis because artists do have neither unlimited time nor unlimited file size......
Considering the comparison pictures and videos from the very first days of CP2077 PT implementation to this example in DD2 or the simple fact that we just established, and to which even you agreed, that RT is the only option for dynamic environments:
It´s like you looked at some bad RT implementation on consoles 2 years ago and decided that exatly that is RT and that it will never be any different and you`ve stopped looking at any comparison shots every since...or maybe you`ve even gauged your eyes out.
And sorry but we are getting closer to diminishing returns. Mario64 was 1996. Half-Life2 was only 8 years later and completely destroys mario. But games released another 8 years later do not really destroy hl2.
3d graphics are 3d graphics. If you think rt is the only way, you are wrong.
Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
It's all solvable 20 years ago. FB already does multiple bakes for different times of day. And you can do software gi in raster games anway.
and rt is better because forbidden west got bad water reflections?
Half life 2 had perfect off screen reflections 20 years ago. On every water surface. I just replayed the game. Planar reflections or not, it's perfect.
No matter the scene or puddle, it's always perfect in 20 years old half life 2
So using cheap ssr for water reflections is just lack of care. And putting heavy RT on it that's also blurry is also a lack of care.
Try running Planar reflections on largish bodies of water in any game thats even remotely graphically intensive and youll understand why devs rarely use Planar reflections anymore.
P.S Its because the game basically renders the whole scene twice.
You almost double your scene cost just on reflections.
If you add in lets assume a probe based GI calculated at runtime and/or a prebaked GI for the environment + whatever tomfoolery you want to implement for reflections on non-planar surfaces, some screenspace AO solution.
Raytracing suddenly looks alot more attractive.
Schmendrick
Member
Coming from you that`s just....
Ah sorry, the only option that doesn´t look like shit or requires nearly unlimited budget. Sorry I forgot we`re still in that fantastical little world in your head where that kind of stuff actually happens.
If you think there is another way to realistically simulate light behaviour than some form of tracing then please go and tell the CGI world they`ve been doing it wrong for 40+ years.
It´s amazing what kind of utterly stupid things you say with such conviction.....
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
Post more gifs. You really are smart. Post some gifs how smart you areComing from you that`s just....
Ah sorry, the only option that doesn´t look like shit or requires nearly unlimited budget. Sorry I forgot we`re still in that fantastical little world in your head where that kind of stuff actually happens.
If you think there is another way to realistically simulate light behaviour than some form of tracing then please go and tell the CGI world they`ve been doing it wrong for 40+ years.
It´s amazing what kind of utterly stupid things you say with such conviction.....
Schmendrick
Member
your "special" viewpoints and how expertly you ignore all technological or practical realities require more expression than plain text can provide.
I also thought it might be easier to understand for you given how bad your eyesight must be.
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Don Carlo
Member
It hurts ma