Support NeoGAF

[SlimySnake]

Dualsense and 3d audio. No crashing most likely.
For re mouse and keyboard was a big plus on pc.

In general re is good on pc. Should be a good port. I don’t actually expect any problems.

RE4 caused constant crashes because they vram management system is fucking broken now, You could be fine until you hit an area that goes over the vram budget for your GPU and it would crash every single time.

At launch, i was able to simply turn off ray tracing which freed up the 10 GB vram in my 3080 enough for me to run maxed out textures.

But after a few patches, they fucked up the maxed out textures as well so now the game crashes even with RT off whenever the game goes over the 10 GB limit. I had to settle for 4GB textures which mean a lot of texture/lod pop-in as i moved through the areas. very annoying because this was not an issue at launch and using 12 gb textures meant no pop-in whatsoever and no crashes.

The RE engine is fine performance wise, but it has severe issues on both consoles and PC thanks to its poor upscaling solution which made the console versions a blurry fucking mess in performance mode, poor vram management, and some truly bizarre issues with DoF and Chromatic Abberation settings that destroy the image quality on both consoles and PC.

I think the fact that this game is 30 fps likely means that their engine is not well optimized for open world and is being bottlenecked by the CPU because they didnt bother properly multithreading stuff.

 

[digdug2]

Agreed.

There is no way a PC could do Contra III with all the cool effects playing smoothly until maybe the late 90s? I dont know. 3D and heavy computing strategy games PC has always ruled. But for all the typical side scrolling fast paced action shit on consoles, even the 486 with 8mb ram we had would crumble if it tried to do Axelay in 1993. Conversely, asking SNES to do Ultima Underworld would be impossible to do well too.

PC was definitely better at some genres of games, there's no doubt! Axelay would've bogged everything down. I remember Tyrian being a fantastic shoot'em up in the mid-90s, but I couldn't tell you any other scrolling shooters on the PC at that time. Then again, I was 11 years old, we didn't have internet yet, and I didn't get gaming mags but 2/3 times a year.

I remember many of those mid-90s Shareware side scrollers... they mostly kind of sucked compared to what was on SNES and Genesis. Jill of the Jungle (it was OK), Jazz Jackrabbit (actually pretty good), Dark Ages (oof), Cosmo's Cosmic Adventure (the color palette made my eyes bleed), etc. I have nostalgia for them, but many weren't exactly good.

 

[Gaiff]

RE4 caused constant crashes because they vram management system is fucking broken now, You could be fine until you hit an area that goes over the vram budget for your GPU and it would crash every single time.

At launch, i was able to simply turn off ray tracing which freed up the 10 GB vram in my 3080 enough for me to run maxed out textures.

But after a few patches, they fucked up the maxed out textures as well so now the game crashes even with RT off whenever the game goes over the 10 GB limit. I had to settle for 4GB textures which mean a lot of texture/lod pop-in as i moved through the areas. very annoying because this was not an issue at launch and using 12 gb textures meant no pop-in whatsoever and no crashes.

The RE engine is fine performance wise, but it has severe issues on both consoles and PC thanks to its poor upscaling solution which made the console versions a blurry fucking mess in performance mode, poor vram management, and some truly bizarre issues with DoF and Chromatic Abberation settings that destroy the image quality on both consoles and PC.

I think the fact that this game is 30 fps likely means that their engine is not well optimized for open world and is being bottlenecked by the CPU because they didnt bother properly multithreading stuff.

Had a good laugh when the 3070 with its 8GB was causing people to laugh at 2080 Ti owners. Not only did the 3080 and 3070 take over a year to become widely available at normal prices, but both are suffering from VRAM-related issues.

 

[SlimySnake]

No

Framerate warriors are people that complain and shit on devs for not having a 60fps mode. The dweebs who start petitions for a performance mode. Who force devs to dumb their games down to hit a number. Who make fun of 30fps games and “refuse to buy them because 30fps”

I call that out.

Game will sell millions. They will be fine.

yeah, if it wasnt for framerate warriors, we would be getting a locked 30 fps experience, but capcom freaked out and did something absolutely retarded to appease the framerate warriors.

i wouldnt blame the framerate warriors for capcom's fuckups but they indirectly caused this mess because of their inability to realize that not every game can run at 60 fps. especially not RPGs with all these different underlying systems. at least not on these consoles with weak CPUs.

 

[rofif]

RE4 caused constant crashes because they vram management system is fucking broken now, You could be fine until you hit an area that goes over the vram budget for your GPU and it would crash every single time.

At launch, i was able to simply turn off ray tracing which freed up the 10 GB vram in my 3080 enough for me to run maxed out textures.

But after a few patches, they fucked up the maxed out textures as well so now the game crashes even with RT off whenever the game goes over the 10 GB limit. I had to settle for 4GB textures which mean a lot of texture/lod pop-in as i moved through the areas. very annoying because this was not an issue at launch and using 12 gb textures meant no pop-in whatsoever and no crashes.

The RE engine is fine performance wise, but it has severe issues on both consoles and PC thanks to its poor upscaling solution which made the console versions a blurry fucking mess in performance mode, poor vram management, and some truly bizarre issues with DoF and Chromatic Abberation settings that destroy the image quality on both consoles and PC.

I think the fact that this game is 30 fps likely means that their engine is not well optimized for open world and is being bottlenecked by the CPU because they didnt bother properly multithreading stuff.

I know about vram management but it was mystery on Release and rt was not an obvious suspect because I was in red with or without it
But it’s a very good engine. One of my favs

 

[SlimySnake]

Had a good laugh when the 3070 with its 8GB was causing people to laugh at 2080 Ti owners. Not only did the 3080 and 3070 take over a year to become widely available at normal prices, but both are suffering from VRAM-related issues.

But this is mostly on the devs. Like i said, the game was fine at launch. Native 4k 60 fps maxed out textures. never crashed as long as i turned off RT. The issues arrived after patches supposedly fixed the vram bound crashes with RT, but inadvertently broke the non-RT version.

99% of the time the vram usage in the game was around 7GB evne with 12 GB textures. The random spikes typically happened when you entered a new area. my guess is when the game is loading and unloading assets. In every other game, such spikes in vram would result in a framerate spike or stutter which is what would happen at launch, but the game would not crash like it does now.

My 10 GB 3080 ran AW2, Avatar and Star Wars maxed out at 4k dlss quality maxed out just these past couple of months. Star Wars and AW2 i had to cap at 40, but avatar was 60. the vram usage never went above 8GB even at 4k resolutions. remember, these games are made for the PS5 which has only 12.5 GB of total ram available for games. there is no way they are using more than 8-9 GB for the GPU.

 

[Gaiff]

But this is mostly on the devs.

Always is.

remember, these games are made for the PS5 which has only 12.5 GB of total ram available for games. there is no way they are using more than 8-9 GB for the GPU.

Yeah, at like 1080p and often no ray tracing. Increase the resolution and add RT and it suddenly balloons to 10GB+.

Point is, NVIDIA was stingy with the VRAM on Ampere cards. 3080 should have had the configuration of the 3080 Ti out of the gate with 12GB, not a miserable 10GB which is lower than what the 2080 Ti has. Within its first two years, it already started exhibiting VRAM-related issues which is a first for an x80 class of card.

 

[GymWolf]

yeah, if it wasnt for framerate warriors, we would be getting a locked 30 fps experience, but capcom freaked out and did something absolutely retarded to appease the framerate warriors.

i wouldnt blame the framerate warriors for capcom's fuckups but they indirectly caused this mess because of their inability to realize that not every game can run at 60 fps. especially not RPGs with all these different underlying systems. at least not on these consoles with weak CPUs.

Gimme a fucking break, this is starfield defence force all over again, another game with "underlying systems" that had all the simulation and npcs interactions dumbed the fuck down even compared to fallout 4...

Let the game come out so we can see how justified the 30fps are...

 

[SlimySnake]

Always is.

Yeah, at like 1080p and often no ray tracing. Increase the resolution and add RT and it suddenly balloons to 10GB+.

Point is, NVIDIA was stingy with the VRAM on Ampere cards. 3080 should have had the configuration of the 3080 Ti out of the gate with 12GB, not a miserable 10GB which is lower than what the 2080 Ti has. Within its first two years, it already started exhibiting VRAM-related issues which is a first for an x80 class of card.

I agree with nvidia cheapening out on vram. I was just stating its not been an issue for me lately even in the best looking games. even for cyberpunk. I think RE4 and Hogwarts were the only ones that gave me vram trouble but most games dont have that issue and hogwarts was flat out broken needing 25GB of system ram with RT on.

I also played Spiderman 2 at native 4k on consoles last year with RT on so it seems 12.5 GB on consoles is enough. Avatar runs RTGI on ps5 at 4k FSR2 quality in the 30 fps mode. UE5 is actually very good with vram budgets as well. hell both callisto and star wars used RT and some insanely high quality textures and i never had any crashes because the vram usage never went above 8GB. if my 3080 was bottlenecking, at least it was done more gracefully than the crashes in RE4. I really hope Dragons Dogma 2 is not the same. i suppose we will find out today when they release the demo.

 

[fart town usa]

Wasn't the initial rumor that it was locked 30?

It seems like the uncapped might be a result of gamers throwing a fit.

Damn shame if so because a locked 30 would be infinitely better than the screen tearing that will come from it being uncapped.

 

[SlimySnake]

Gimme a fucking break, this is starfield defence force all over again, another game with "underlying systems" that had all the simulation and npcs interactions dumbed the fuck down even compared to fallout 4...

i dont remember zero gravity, space ship fights, and any towns the size of new atlantis in fallout 4.

but lets just stop comparing starfield with other bethesda games, and simply compare ANY bethesda game to a linear action game from Sony studios. Or even an open world game like Spiderman 2. Would you say Dragons Dogma 2 or Starfield have more underlying systems than Spiderman 2? What about RE4? Or TLOU2? or GOW Ragnorak?

The answer is of course they do. Hence why spiderman 2 can have a 1080p 60 fps mode and starfield and dragons dogma cant.

 

[Mister Wolf]

Gimme a fucking break, this is starfield defence force all over again, another game with "underlying systems" that had all the simulation and npcs interactions dumbed the fuck down even compared to fallout 4...

I keep reading all this talk of physics and environmental destruction in Dragon's Dogma 2 and I'm not seeing none of that shit. They talk as if the game has environmental destruction on the level of Control.

 

[Lokaum D+]

Wasn't the initial rumor that it was locked 30?

It seems like the uncapped might be a result of gamers throwing a fit.

Damn shame if so because a locked 30 would be infinitely better than the screen tearing that will come from it being uncapped.

yeah yeah, because it must be so hard for Capcom to make two modes, so hard that no one in the industry can.... oh wait, let's blame gamers for devs laziness.

 

[GymWolf]

i dont remember zero gravity, space ship fights, and any towns the size of new atlantis in fallout 4.

but lets just stop comparing starfield with other bethesda games, and simply compare ANY bethesda game to a linear action game from Sony studios. Or even an open world game like Spiderman 2. Would you say Dragons Dogma 2 or Starfield have more underlying systems than Spiderman 2? What about RE4? Or TLOU2? or GOW Ragnorak?

The answer is of course they do. Hence why spiderman 2 can have a 1080p 60 fps mode and starfield and dragons dogma cant.

Zero gravity is nothing new in videogames and you mostly had zero gravity outdors in planet that were barren as fuck and not even really "open world", the big heavy cities had normal gravity, same for the space exploration, just a lot of smoke and mirrors to give you the idea of freedom and large spaces but we really know that it was all fake, same for space ships battles (and you or someone else even told me that rendering space fights is uber easy in the gf topic) and we have enough open world with huge cities that run at 60 fps with better graphic than dogma.

Npcs simulation in starfield were even worse than sp2 ia wise, wtf are you talking about with these underlying systems? That game was just smoke and mirrors with barely anything going on compared to many other rpg, bethesda just fooled the bunch of you into thinking their game was more complicated than it really is, oh and the game also had dogshit enemy ia and barely any destruction, you cant even break a fucking glass.

And dogma hasn't showed a single piece of tech that wasn't possible on a damn ps3 no matter how much the devs and media glaze this shit without even listing a single example.

I'm all for running game at 640x480 and 15 frames shit solid when you have actual nextgen stuff in your game, starfield wasn't the case, and dogma 2 hasn't showed jack shit neither.

 

[SlimySnake]

Zero gravity is nothing new in videogames and you mostly had zero gravity outdors in planet that were barren as fuck and not even really "open world", the big heavy cities had normal gravity, same for the space exploration, just a lot of smoke and mirrors to give you the idea of freedom and large spaces but we really know that it was all fake, same for space ships battles (and you or someone else even told me that rendering space fights is uber easy in the gf topic) and we have enough open world with huge cities that run at 60 fps with better graphic than dogma.

Npcs simulation in starfield were even worse than sp2 ia wise, wtf are you talking about with these underlying systems? That game was just smoke and mirrors with barely anything going on compared to many other rpg, bethesda just fooled the bunch of you into thinking their game was more complicated than it really is, oh and the game also had dogshit enemy ia and barely any destruction, you cant even break a fucking glass.

And dogma hasn't showed a single piece of tech that wasn't possible on a damn ps3 no matter how much the devs and media glaze this shit without even listing a single example.

I'm all for running game at 640x480 at 15 frames shit solid when you have actual nextgen stuff in your game, starfield wasn't the case, and dogma 2 hasn't showed jack shit neither.

So just to confirm you think Spiderman 2 has more underlying systems than Dragons Dogma 2 and Starfield?

 

[mckmas8808]

Most people prefer to play at 30 fps. So no problem.

100% this. GAF obsession with 60fps or die is crazy.

 

[Gaiff]

Starfield was just a mess of a job on a Frankenstein engine. I think they improved AMD CPUs by around 20-30% after launch.

 

[GymWolf]

Edit: meh, it's just not worth to waste time talking about shitfield.

You win dude, hopefully dogma 2 is gonna be as incredible and game changing as starfield to justify the 30fps in a console that run hfw at 1440p60 while looking 3x times better and with a lot of "underlying systems" aswell.

 

[yamaci17]

Edit: meh, it's just not worth to waste time talking about shitfield.

You win dude, hopefully dogma 2 is gonna be as incredible and game changing as starfield to justify the 30fps in a console that run hfw at 1440p60 while looking 3x times better.

although i will say starfeld is bit more complex and usually has more gameplay mechanics than regular open world games like forbidden west, here I fully agree with you. and most of these features and mechanics are not even really CPU bound but just features (outpust building, cargo links, ship building etc.).

game's npc schedule is a massive downgrade compared to skyrim

physics and simulations and gunplay often occurs in secluded areas and empty galaxies where even my lowend cpu is capable of pushing 100 fps. even then as you said, those physics are not used in actual gameplay aside from zero gravitiy combat but as you pointed it out... zero gravity combat happens in star stations which pushes 120 fps on my 2700x so it is not even a factor into why game targets 30 fps on consoles

new atlantis is a small village with boring NPCs with no paths to speak of. it has unoptimized draw calls and that is the only reason that and akila "city" (lol) drops to 45s-50s on zen 2 CPUs. rest of the game I was getting 60 fps locked with my 2700x which proves that game is not even doing anything that special actually.

that's it. unoptimized draw calls. it has been a plague for many game engines and has nothing to do with console CPU or something. it is just blatant single thread bottleneck that keeps happening over and over again with certain engines/titles/developers. cyberpunk has much more drawcalls spread across more threads and is a game that scale to 60 fps. and i played both cyberpunk and starfield and cyberpunk combat felt more dynamic to me. starfield combat is... dumb. those physics or whatnot do not even factor into any of its gameplay

 

[SlimySnake]

Edit: meh, it's just not worth to waste time talking about shitfield.

You win dude, hopefully dogma 2 is gonna be as incredible and game changing as starfield to justify the 30fps in a console that run hfw at 1440p60 while looking 3x times better and with a lot of "underlying systems" aswell.

lol you do realize i have gaf gold so i have seen each of your 4 edits to this post in realtime.

 

[GymWolf]

lol you do realize i have gaf gold so i have seen each of your 4 edits to this post in realtime.

Aaaand?

I just didn't wanted to prolong the discussion much further since we already discussed many times.

Also, i don't think you need gold to see posts being edited?!

 

[SlimySnake]

Edit: meh, it's just not worth to waste time talking about shitfield.

You win dude, hopefully dogma 2 is gonna be as incredible and game changing as starfield to justify the 30fps in a console that run hfw at 1440p60 while looking 3x times better and with a lot of "underlying systems" aswell.

I never wanted to discuss starfield. We have been through it before. thats why i asked you to ignore starfield and just compared other bethesda games to linear sony action adventure games.

ut lets just stop comparing starfield with other bethesda games, and simply compare ANY bethesda game to a linear action game from Sony studios. Or even an open world game like Spiderman 2.

if you dislike discussing bethesda games, you can pick something like Mass Effect or Dragons Age. These games have party systems that are governed by the CPU. These games have far more elaborate questlines and NPC interactions than your average Sony game. I am not saying whether or not these RPG systems are next gen, im simply saying they are more elaborate than taction adventure games. Thats like the most basic thing every gamer can agree on. RPGs > Action Adventure games when it comes to systems. More systems = more cpu driven engines. More CPU usage = fewer resources to handle games at 60 fps.

i will have to play Dragons Dogma 2 to see whats so CPU heavy but from the previews, it seems all four NPCs are present at all times which means the CPU has to keep track of their moveset, their abilities and handle them fighting these bosses alongside you. its clearly more advanced than the AI in uncharted and tlou2. there was that one scene with you opening a dam to flood the water taking out the ogre. that kind of dynamic stuff is simply not something you see in action adventure games. Is it more advanced than prior gen RPGs? Not sure, but clearly more advanced than basic ass action adventure games.

Any time i see these party systems, im reminded of Bungie refusing to update Destiny on mid gen consoles when pretty much every other shooter used the extra GPU power to run at much more smoother 60 fps. Their reasoning was that the 6 player raids were simply too much for the meager CPU upgrade. So while the 2-4x GPU power was there, the CPU power was simply not there. Mass Effect Andromeda also launched on the Pro on day 1 and never patched in the 60 fps mode.

 

[GymWolf]

I never wanted to discuss starfield. We have been through it before. thats why i asked you to ignore starfield and just compared other bethesda games to linear sony action adventure games.

if you dislike discussing bethesda games, you can pick something like Mass Effect or Dragons Age. These games have party systems that are governed by the CPU. These games have far more elaborate questlines and NPC interactions than your average Sony game. I am not saying whether or not these RPG systems are next gen, im simply saying they are more elaborate than taction adventure games. Thats like the most basic thing every gamer can agree on. RPGs > Action Adventure games when it comes to systems.

i will have to play Dragons Dogma 2 to see whats so CPU heavy but from the previews, it seems all four NPCs are present at all times which means the CPU has to keep track of their moveset, their abilities and handle them fighting these bosses alongside you. its clearly more advanced than the AI in uncharted and tlou2. there was that one scene with you opening a dam to flood the water taking out the ogre. that kind of dynamic stuff is simply not something you see in action adventure games. Is it more advanced than prior gen RPGs? Not sure, but clearly more advanced than basic ass action adventure games.

Any time i see these party systems, im reminded of Bungie refusing to update Destiny on mid gen consoles when pretty much every other shooter used the extra GPU power to run at much more smoother 60 fps. Their reasoning was that the 6 player raids were simply too much for the meager CPU upgrade. So while the 2-4x GPU power was there, the CPU power was simply not there. Mass Effect Andromeda also launched on the Pro on day 1 and never patched in the 60 fps mode.

Lmao, you clearly haven't played dogma 1 because the companion IA was beyond retarded, and if having a team of 3 mongoloids is the reason for 30 fps, then god save us all...
Them knowing stuff about locations and enemies was a switch on or off based on the fact that they already did that mission, if they did they know what to do, if not they are retarded as usual, it is not organic IA being smart, just a switch.
They were so badly designed that they picked negative traits by just playing normally, you call for help, negative trait, you tell them to follow you to not get massacred, negative traits, you fucking pick stuff from the ground in a damn rpg? negative traits, the system was original but undercooked and annoying as hell.

The scene with the water is a simple enviromental trap placed in a specific place of the map, it's the fucking same as horizon 1 having traps with trees that you can make roll on enemies, you can do the same in mhw in 2018 with the rathalos nest water trap and it wasn't impressive back then neither (and water rendering looks like shit in dogma2).

Giant monster roaming a part of the map in a setpiece with scripted destruction is also nothing new in the slightest, and the enviromental destruction seems even more limited than horizon during normal gameplay, i haven't seen anyone breaking small and medium rocks, small and medium trees, small and medium wood structures etc, and enemies don't have all the detachable parts that have their own physics when detached from the body (at best you can cut a tail that disappear)

and they are probably not gonna have the robot ecosystem of horizon where enemies interact with the world and each other to heal the planet, they are just gonna be like every other open world when they just stand there waiting for you, i know people like to shit on horizon for being aseptic or untouchable or super fake, but you can notice a lot of shit going on if you stop hating for a second, it wasn't anything mind blowing of course, but already better than anything inside starfield and probably dogma 2 aswell.

Dogma 2 hasn't showed a single piece of tech that was not possible on a ps3, so maybe they are keeping all these incredible features hided for some stupid reasons, or this is just another case of japanese devs being japanese devs.

 

[SlimySnake]

Lmao, you clearly haven't played dogma 1 because the companion IA was beyond retarded, and if having a team of 3 mongoloids is the reason for 30 fps, then god save us.
Them knowing stuff about locations and enemies was a switch on or off based on the fact that they already did that mission, if they did they know what to do, if not they are retarded as usual, it is not organic IA being smart, just a switch.

The scene with the water is a simple envormental trap placed in a specific place of the map, it's the fucking same as horizon 1 having traps with trees that you can make roll on enemies, you can do the same in mhw in 2018 and it wasn't impressive back then neither (and water rendering looks like shit in dogma2).

Giant monster roaming a part of the map in a setpiece with scripted destruction is also nothing new in the slightest, and the enviromental destruction seems even more limited than horizon during normal gameplay, i haven't seen anyone breaking small and medium rocks, small and medium trees, small and medium wood structures etc, and enemies don't have all the detachable parts that have their own physics when detached from the body.

and they are probably not gonna have the robot ecosystem of horizon where enemies interact with the world and each other to heal the planet, they are just gonna be like every other open world when they just stand there waiting for you, i know people like to shit on horizon for being asettic or untouchable or super fake, but you can notice a lot of shit going on if you stop hating for a second, it wasn't anything mind blowing of course, but already better than anything inside starfield and probably dogma 2 aswell.

Dogma 2 hasn't showed a single piece of tech that was not possible on a ps3, so maybe they are keeping all these incredible features hided for some stupid reasons, or this is just another case of japanese devs being japanese devs.

you are confusing physics and destruction with RPG systems that run in the background at all times because they need to keep track of questlines, dialogue choices, object persistence, NPC upgrades and god knows what other systems you and I simply dont have visibility into. All i know is that RPGs from bethesda, bioware and more recently Larian are more CPU driven than your average action adventure game. Which pisses me off when people point to something basic like spiderman 2 or RE4 or Alan Wake 2. Im all for calling devs lazy and incompetent, you know that, but comparing action adventure games to RPGs is silly especially when we are criticizing them for not including 60 fps modes on these weak ass console CPUs.

And yes I agree, its entirely possible that the devs are idiots and the RE engine was never meant to handle open world games, let alone open world RPGs. Apparently the demos everyone played was actually running at 1080p not 4k like IGN misstated. So 1080p 30 fps on a PS5 would be a clear example of developer incompetence especially with visuals of this fidelity.

 

[GymWolf]

you are confusing physics and destruction with RPG systems that run in the background at all times because they need to keep track of questlines, dialogue choices, object persistence, NPC upgrades and god knows what other systems you and I simply dont have visibility into. All i know is that RPGs from bethesda, bioware and more recently Larian are more CPU driven than your average action adventure game. Which pisses me off when people point to something basic like spiderman 2 or RE4 or Alan Wake 2. Im all for calling devs lazy and incompetent, you know that, but comparing action adventure games to RPGs is silly especially when we are criticizing them for not including 60 fps modes on these weak ass console CPUs.

And yes I agree, its entirely possible that the devs are idiots and the RE engine was never meant to handle open world games, let alone open world RPGs. Apparently the demos everyone played was actually running at 1080p not 4k like IGN misstated. So 1080p 30 fps on a PS5 would be a clear example of developer incompetence especially with visuals of this fidelity.

My problem is that you over-estimate all of that when they are really not doing anything that open world rpg haven't done since forever, and tbh, you don't even know how heavy they are, how can you tell that the uber simple ncps simulation in starfield is more heavy than the traffic simulation you love so much in sp2? spoiler, you can't, at best we can speculate.


So they do the the same things or worse but with better hardware compared to previous gens, you can see why people are confused...especially in the case of dogma2 that also look decent at best, at least starfield looked great sometimes...

There is not complicated interactions between npcs in starfield, all the underlying systems are undercooked or inferior to past bethesda games or even other lesser rpgs like elex.

And you are assuming that dogma2 is another game with super heavy systems that they haven't showed yet.

You are not gonna hear a peep from me when the game with 4000 units on screen is gonna be 30 fps on console, because i know they are actually doing nextgen stuff (and they said that the game run at 60 fps so...), or if an rpg comes out and has actual nextgen simulation and interaction.

I guess that i still don't understand what you mean with rpg systems that are not related to npcs and world simulation when these things are what matter in an open world rpg.

I heard a dude saying that bringing enemies to the entrance of a village to let npcs fight them is somehow impressive...how do i tell him that a lot of open world do that? days fucking gone does that, i can bring enemies to main camps and let the npcs shot them or i can even bring a huge horde to an enemy camp and see how they kill each other dinamically, this is not impressive stuff in 2024.

I don't know if capcom are lazy or not, but defending a game based on hopes and promises is not my approach, especially coming from dogma1, i can do that with gta6 becausei know how fucking god rdr2 is.

 

[SlimySnake]

My problem is that you over-estimate all of that when they are really not doing anything that open world rpg haven't done since forever, and tbh, you don't even know how heavy they are, how can you tell that the uber simple ncps simulation in starfield is more heavy than the traffic simulation you love so much in sp2? spoiler, you can't.

I suppose i cant.

So they do the the same things or worse but with better hardware compared to previous gens, you can see why people are confused...especially in the case of dogma2 that also look decent at best, at least starfield looked great sometimes...

like i said, its probably developer incompetence. I just look at other RPGs and they all seem to have very high CPU usage even on PCs. some cities in baldurs gate 3 bring even the $600 CPU to its knees topping out at 30 fps. And that game looks like a ps3 game. Maybe western RPG developers are just as bad at optimizing their game engines as Japanese devs, but bethesda just got their shit together in terms of updating their engine to support better graphics, and bioware has been producing some fairly decent looking games since Mass effect 2 so its not like they all suck at updating their engines like Japanese developers. Even the avatar developer was bemoaning the fact that video games are still single threaded by design which keeps them from multithreading everything.. And Avatar is a basic action adventure game.

There are rumors of a demo coming out today so maybe we should be able to at least see how hard it hits the CPUs on PC.

 

[midasmulligan]

i dont remember zero gravity, space ship fights, and any towns the size of new atlantis in fallout 4.

but lets just stop comparing starfield with other bethesda games, and simply compare ANY bethesda game to a linear action game from Sony studios. Or even an open world game like Spiderman 2. Would you say Dragons Dogma 2 or Starfield have more underlying systems than Spiderman 2? What about RE4? Or TLOU2? or GOW Ragnorak?

The answer is of course they do. Hence why spiderman 2 can have a 1080p 60 fps mode and starfield and dragons dogma cant.

so what about HFW? It's cool to be pumped on the release, but you're stepping into white knight mode when suggesting that DD2 is doing something extraordinary/uncharted with this sort of comment. Some devs aren't up to snuff, and that's fine, but you do a disservice to the system and other all star devs when you make these statements. Let's wait and see, but i have a sneaking suspension that is just not optimized at this point.

 

[GymWolf]

so what about HFW? It's cool to be pumped on the release, but you're stepping into white knight mode when suggesting that DD2 is doing something extraordinary/uncharted with this sort of comment. Some devs aren't up to snuff, and that's fine, but you do a disservice to the system and other all star devs when you make these statements. Let's wait and see, but i have a sneaking suspension that is just not optimized at this point.

I don't think slimy gives enough fucks about dogma2 to white knight for it tbh

 

[SlimySnake]

so what about HFW? It's cool to be pumped on the release, but you're stepping into white knight mode when suggesting that DD2 is doing something extraordinary/uncharted with this sort of comment. Some devs aren't up to snuff, and that's fine, but you do a disservice to the system and other all star devs when you make these statements. Let's wait and see, but i have a sneaking suspension that is just not optimized at this point.

HFW is likely more systems driven than say TLOU2 or Alan Wake 2, but compared to actual RPGs? Not even close.

 

[mckmas8808]

lol you do realize i have gaf gold so i have seen each of your 4 edits to this post in realtime.

 

[GymWolf]

Btw, i'm gonna be extremely happy to eat crows if dogma2 has some tricks up its sleeves that we haven't seen yet, i know i sound mad about the game, but i'm a pessimist\realist even with my favourite games.

 

[SlimySnake]

I don't think slimy gives enough fucks about dogma2 to white knight for it tbh

lol i am looking forward to the game very much after the abomination that is FF7 Rebirth, but yes, i am not white knighting for dragons dogma 2, just discussing whether or not its fair to compare RPG games vs action adventure games when it comes to shitting on devs for poor optimization. i will be playing this game on PC on a CPU that will easily run the game at 60 fps so this doesnt really impact me either way.

hell, this was my first post in this thread where i took a giant shit all over the devs for uncapping the framerate.

Lmao. This is so stupid. Like legit dumb. People this stupid should not be allowed to make video games. These devs are completely clueless and detached from reality.

This is sadly the norm with Japanese devs. They lack common sense when it comes to stuff like this. They have shown this time and time again with elden ring, sekiro, bloodborne, ff16, forspoken, ghostwire tokyo and many others.

Elden ring caps its DRS to 1512p instead of dropping to 1440p or below to make sure it hits 60 fps. The result is a game that constantly runs in the 50s. Bb still has bad frame pacing despite running at 30 fps locked, a very fixable issue. Sekiro on pro consoles ran at a similar unlocked framerate between 30-45 fps. Ff15 also had the poor frame pacing issues back in the day. Even zelda constantly drops to 20 fps every time you use the physics tool whatever it was called. Like every single time.

It’s like these devs don’t give a fuck. Bayonetta 3 looks like it runs at 240p-360p and it does. They pushed the system too hard and you legit can’t see what’s going on because the visuals are so blocky like those old vcd artifacts.

I love their games but my god it’s time to start docking points because this is embarrassing.

 

[Kacho]

after the abomination that is FF7 Rebirth

Wait you dislike Rebirth? Or just the performance/visuals?

 

[King Dazzar]

lol you do realize i have gaf gold so i have seen each of your 4 edits to this post in realtime.

You're making me feel naked with all of GAF looking at me. lol Can GAF see me masturbate too even when my PC is turned off? One day I'll have to try Gold.

 

[GymWolf]

Wait you dislike Rebirth? Or just the performance/visuals?

They made moogles fugly and he is kinda of a furry.

 

[FoxMcChief]

30 uncapped. That way no one is happy.

I’m fine with it.

 

[yamaci17]

My problem is that you over-estimate all of that when they are really not doing anything that open world rpg haven't done since forever, and tbh, you don't even know how heavy they are, how can you tell that the uber simple ncps simulation in starfield is more heavy than the traffic simulation you love so much in sp2? spoiler, you can't, at best we can speculate.


So they do the the same things or worse but with better hardware compared to previous gens, you can see why people are confused...especially in the case of dogma2 that also look decent at best, at least starfield looked great sometimes...

There is not complicated interactions between npcs in starfield, all the underlying systems are undercooked or inferior to past bethesda games or even other lesser rpgs like elex.

And you are assuming that dogma2 is another game with super heavy systems that they haven't showed yet.

You are not gonna hear a peep from me when the game with 4000 units on screen is gonna be 30 fps on console, because i know they are actually doing nextgen stuff (and they said that the game run at 60 fps so...), or if an rpg comes out and has actual nextgen simulation and interaction.

I guess that i still don't understand what you mean with rpg systems that are not related to npcs and world simulation when these things are what matter in an open world rpg.

I heard a dude saying that bringing enemies to the entrance of a village to let npcs fight them is somehow impressive...how do i tell him that a lot of open world do that? days fucking gone does that, i can bring enemies to main camps and let the npcs shot them or i can even bring a huge horde to an enemy camp and see how they kill each other dinamically, this is not impressive stuff in 2024.

I don't know if capcom are lazy or not, but defending a game based on hopes and promises is not my approach, especially coming from dogma1, i can do that with gta6 becausei know how fucking god rdr2 is.

yeah most of that stuff was in skyrim. and from what I recall i was able to get 40 FPS with a dual core pentium CPU in that game

it had lots of physics and simulations, like fus ro dah which actually mattered for the gameplay. it was fun to fus ro dah objects around and seeing them fully simulated into the air. that's something that 2016+ games like horizon/spiderman/witcher lacks, for real. all objects being their own entity that can interact with enviroment / fly around. that was impressive for 2011 and still managed to run fine on super garbage CPUs. and had similar RPG systems running in the background. dare I say, RPG systems in skyrim is more complex than starfield. then you had mountains where you can shout yetis down the hill. there, those "physics" were showcased. yet i see none of that creativity in starfield either.

ragdoll in starfield is usually horrible for large body enemies. ragdoll in skyrim was much better to look at (giants, dragons etc.). most of it is lacking in starfield actually.

only reason dragon dogma and starfield and baldurs gate 3 is insanely cpu bound is because of draw calls hogging a single thread... and draw calls are a direct consequence of these games having better graphics / more polygons to render etc. (another reason why arkham knight was insanely cpu bottlenecked and single threaded as well, game is doing nothing special in terms of cpu actually. it just pushes crazy amount of drawcalls in a single thread)

it is time for some of these devs to put proper work into making their engine more multithreaded in my opinion

 

[SlimySnake]

Wait you dislike Rebirth? Or just the performance/visuals?

lol dont listen to gymwolf. this has nothing to do with moogles.

actually maybe a little bit because moogles make up several of the 30 mini games the devs make me play. im actually fine with the 30 fps mode and i do think the game can look great at times, but the constant mini games even in story mode, the goofy characters, and poor pacing just put me off of the game. i loved remake because it was so focused and action packed but this game starts and stops every few hours which reminded me of the atreus sections and the constant walking sections in tlou2. only these sections in ff7 have forced mini games and some really goofy writing and characters acting like children, and i am getting too old for this shit. i get that those mini games are a part of the charm for FF7 fans but i never played the original so this nostalgia trip is not working on me.

Going to play Spiderman 2 NG+ until Dragons Dogma and Rise of Ronin come out in two weeks. Pure gameplay. No mini games. no anime storytelling. just combat.

 

[Pop]

Wasn't the initial rumor that it was locked 30?

It seems like the uncapped might be a result of gamers throwing a fit.

Damn shame if so because a locked 30 would be infinitely better than the screen tearing that will come from it being uncapped.

The players aren't devs. You would think they should know a locked 30 is better than 25-40 fluctuating

And besides if they can get 30 at 4K, they could give console players a 1080p/60 mode

 

[FoxMcChief]

Meanwhile my cheap RTX4060 laptop I bought for $750 will play this beautifully.

 

[SlimySnake]

The players aren't devs. You would think they should know a locked 30 is better than 25-40 fluctuating

And besides if they can get 30 at 4K, they could give console players a 1080p/60 mode

Its not 4k like IGN said. Another preview i watched said it was 1080p 30 fps.

 

[fart town usa]

The players aren't devs. You would think they should know a locked 30 is better than 25-40 fluctuating

And besides if they can get 30 at 4K, they could give console players a 1080p/60 mode

You're not wrong, it just seems like the initial rumor was locked 30 and then Capcom released a statement to address it, and then it was eventually learned that it's uncapped 30.

I wouldn't be surprised if the outcry affected that decision, even if it doesn't make any sense and will make the game play worse.

 

[R6Rider]

It's not 4k like IGN said. Another preview i watched said it was 1080p 30fps*.

If DD2 is really 1080p 30fps then Capcom are simply terrible at optimizing their game.

 

[SlimySnake]

If DD2 is really 1080p 30fps then Capcom are simply terrible at optimizing their game.

This is the third non-RE game on the RE Engine. Street Fighter 6 was the first and it is notoriously bad in the open world NYC levels. DMC5 was fine but its still a fairly linear game. DD2 is the first true open world game on the RE engine.

Sounds a lot like EA forcing Frostbite on Bioware. But i would wait for the demo to get the real counts. There was a dude here on gaf who played the game last year on the PS5 and he said it was running at 60 fps. Even provided a video of the game running at 60 fps. I was hoping they wouldve announced the demo by now but i guess its coming tomorrow or next week.

 

[StereoVsn]

So it can run better in backwards compatibility mode of next generation systems?

Yes, and that’s why there should be a toggle in the options.

 

[bender]

Yes, and that’s why there should be a toggle in the options.

A toggle sounds like a whole lot of effort.

 

[vkbest]

You're not wrong, it just seems like the initial rumor was locked 30 and then Capcom released a statement to address it, and then it was eventually learned that it's uncapped 30.

I wouldn't be surprised if the outcry affected that decision, even if it doesn't make any sense and will make the game play worse.

All gameplays released were uncapped, only you people need DF tell you how the game is running.

 

[fart town usa]

All gameplays released were uncapped, only you people need DF tell you how the game is running.

I haven't watched any gameplay videos. I'm just responding to headlines.

 

[Putonahappyface]

Most people prefer to play at 30 fps. So no problem.

As long as there is no frame pacing I don't mind 30fps. I would prefer a 40fps quality mode every time though given the choice.

 

[DavidGzz]

Fake gamers all around

If I didn't have a PC I'd buy it for console and enjoy it. I enjoyed many 30 fps games back in the day. But my fake gamer ass spent 3k on a PC cause I want to play games at their best. It's actually gamers vs. fanboys because only a console fanboy would hamstring their experience like this when they have access to a superior version.

No

Framerate warriors are people that complain and shit on devs for not having a 60fps mode. The dweebs who start petitions for a performance mode. Who force devs to dumb their games down to hit a number. Who make fun of 30fps games and “refuse to buy them because 30fps”

I call that out.

Game will sell millions. They will be fine.

How smooth the frame rate is is part of the graphics. Animations look better, when you turn the camera it's smoother, and there is less latency between button presses and what you see on screen. You call out "lazy" devs because of anything below a certain threshold in fidelity but then eat shit when it comes to how smooth the game is. It's funny you call a smoother experience with less latency a dumbed down experience when most of us think 30fps is a dumbed down experience.


I call that out.