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[Heisenberg007]

You weren’t around for Outriders? That was a big part of the discourse at the time of release.

I wasn't interested into Outriders at all so didn't follow it well. But, yeah, I can see a similar type of confusion for that.

Largely because people focus on visuals only as the sole indicator, while budget is truly the differentiator.

I wasn't basing this question just on visuals though, but as an overall package.

I see long debates on Reddit on the same issue with equally different opinions. Like just here are two folks who shared their opinion about it (you and Miku) and both have had opposite answers.

It's fascinating. Perhaps there should be a thread on it with a poll. Would be interesting.

 

[Kacho]

This is where they’re saying they focused most of their efforts in. That, and combat flexibility.

We’ll know when reviews roll around. But they’ve got more than double the time they had to do Outer Worlds, so there’s probably room for some cautious optimism

I’d be more open for optimism if I knew half the people working on this. We know Josh Sawyer is an advisor but who knows how impact that is to the final product. Attaching Spielberg’s name to Transformers didn’t make those movies any less shit, you know what I mean?

People were critical of Pillars and Tyranny, but I actually enjoyed those. Most of Obsidian’s output after that has missed the mark for me. I want Avowed to be a return to form for this studio.

 

[Hawke502]

Read whatever you like my dude.

Game was clearly rebooted and scaled back. Like a lot.

The game might have been rebooted, but nowhere in the statement you posted indicates that the budgets are the same, and i highly doubt that since Obsidian is hiring since 2018.

 

[MiguelItUp]

Today feels like a slow news day. I mean reading this I don't even think it's something I should be disappointed about. Why should I be disappointed about this? More options are a good thing, but maybe it'll all make sense when the game releases?

 

[Ozriel]

It would be good to label what stuff this game does have that others don't....I dunno lol

Articles and threads don’t get written about features the games have. Those don’t bring you clicks or excite internet quarrels.

All these talks of ‘missing features’ comes from one or two interviews where they spent a lot of time talking about what the games have.

 

[Punished Miku]

Is there really a hard distinction, though? Housemarque went from AA shooters to Returnal, an AAA game. The previous Helldivers game was solidly AA. Ready at Dawn went from making PSP titles to one of the most visually astounding AAA games on PS4.

And I've never felt Returnal is AAA either lol. It's a step up, but it's mostly small randomized environments and some cool tentacle and particle effect simulations. I'll shut up now.

 

[Ozriel]

I’d be more open for optimism if I knew half the people working on this. We know Josh Sawyer is an advisor but who knows how impact that is to the final product. Attaching Spielberg’s name to Transformers didn’t make those movies any less shit, you know what I mean?

People were critical of Pillars and Tyranny, but I actually enjoyed those. Most of Obsidian’s output after that has missed the mark for me. I want Avowed to be a return to form for this studio.

Did you know all the people working there when they made Pillars and Tyranny?

Their most recent titles are Pentiment and Grounded. And those have had very good reviews, with Pentiment picking up a handful of GOTY awards in the process.

I’m not even here arguing that the game is certain to be a masterpiece. All we can do Is wait for the finished product.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Is there really a hard distinction, though? Housemarque went from AA shooters to Returnal, an AAA game. The previous Helldivers game was solidly AA. Ready at Dawn went from making PSP titles to one of the most visually astounding AAA games on PS4.

True. Devs graduate or change focuses for whatever reasons to make AAA games (or AA). I think it's best to see individual games if they AAs or AAAs, instead of labeling devs as such. I agree.

 

[Phase]

I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm saying they openly are admitting they don't want to waste development resources on that. Bethesda is far bigger than Obsidian.

I'd like to see all the stuff they did waste time on.

 

[Kacho]

Today feels like a slow news day. I mean reading this I don't even think it's something I should be disappointed about. Why should I be disappointed about this? More options are a good thing, but maybe it'll all make sense when the game releases?

Pillars was a big part of the recent cRPG renaissance. They created a custom ruleset based on D&D 3.5 iirc. Part of the appeal of the series was full character customization with multiple races each with bonuses.

With Avowed they appear to be simplifying things to the extreme. Console war nonsense aside, this is disappointing to people on an enthusiast gaming board.

I should probably check out the thread on RPG Codex for this and Vampire TMB2. I bet they are having a field day.

 

[Heisenberg007]

I'd like to see all the stuff they did waste time on.

That'd make for a better marketing campaign, too. These interviews are doing them more harm than good, in my opinion.

Focus on what it does, especially what it does better than other similar games or the things that no other game does. Focus on the USPs.

 

[Varteras]

I hate the fact that I am losing more and more interest in this game. I had such high hopes for it.

Same. It was one of two games coming from Xbox that I was really hoping were going to thrill me. The other being Perfect Dark. Which I'm hoping doesn't get canceled with all the rumors and reports of rough development. Just seems like every time I see and hear more of Avowed, I'm let down. Sometimes big. In this case, small. I'm still holding out hope that the game will have elements to it that overcome any that are lacking.

 

[Punished Miku]

Pillars was a big part of the recent cRPG renaissance. They created a custom ruleset based on D&D 3.5 iirc. Part of the appeal of the series was full character customization with multiple races each with bonuses.

With Avowed they appear to be simplifying things to the extreme. Console war nonsense aside, this is disappointing to people on an enthusiast gaming board.

I should probably check out the thread on RPG Codex for this and Vampire TMB2. I bet they are having a field day.

I think Pillars 2 mega bombed. Sawyer talks about it all the time. It was such a bomb that he was burned out on writing anything and seemingly is stepping away from fantasy for a bit and was his motivation to create Pentiment. I'm not surprised they're trying a more mainstream approach with this one.

They're going to miss the recent Baldur's Gate wave, but their decision is logical after Pillars 2.

 

[MiguelItUp]

Pillars was a big part of the recent cRPG renaissance. They created a custom ruleset based on D&D 3.5 iirc. Part of the appeal of the series was full character customization with multiple races each with bonuses.

With Avowed they appear to be simplifying things to the extreme. Console war nonsense aside, this is disappointing to people on an enthusiast gaming board.

I should probably check out the thread on RPG Codex for this and Vampire TMB2. I bet they are having a field day.

Ah, that's very valid, I wondered if it was something like that. Appreciate it! I'm assuming this may be the sign of them taking a more casual route?

 

[Ozriel]

And I've never felt Returnal is AAA either lol. It's a step up, but it's mostly small randomized environments and some cool tentacle and particle effect simulations. I'll shut up now.

Well, the devs themselves were adamant it’s AAA, and went staffing up for the title

Housemarque goes AAA with new project

"The era, the ten-plus years that we've been mostly working on smaller, downloadable, arcade-inspired console games has…

www.gamesindustry.biz

Obsidian has more employees, and while Finland has some of the best salaries in Europe for game developers, pretty sure devs salaries in the U.S. run higher on average.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

defo AA vibes

 

[Salty Popsicle]

Today feels like a slow news day. I mean reading this I don't even think it's something I should be disappointed about. Why should I be disappointed about this? More options are a good thing, but maybe it'll all make sense when the game releases?

You shouldn't be. Obsidian never promised us that there would be 5+ races for us to choose from. The people shitting on the game and making lists about "missing features" simply don't like the publisher of the game and will do anything to downplay this title up to release.

 

[Jimmy_liv]

Hurry, everyone pretend to be super upset by this news!

Yeah, I got really upset when I couldn't play as a goat in Last of Us 2...

....about as relevant.

 

[Holammer]

They should have said: "Look man, we just want to get this game out of the door already, instead of feature creeping with romance and more races.".

 

[Ar¢tos]

My rule for DnD based/inspired games is: No playable dwarves, no buy!

 

[Mortisfacio]

Is anyone who will actually play this game upset about this? Or only the people who weren't going to play it anyways?

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Same. It was one of two games coming from Xbox that I was really hoping were going to thrill me. The other being Perfect Dark. Which I'm hoping doesn't get canceled with all the rumors and reports of rough development. Just seems like every time I see and hear more of Avowed, I'm let down. Sometimes big. In this case, small. I'm still holding out hope that the game will have elements to it that overcome any that are lacking.

Indiana Jones had the opposite effect. I liked what I saw.

 

[Ozriel]

That'd make for a better marketing campaign, too. These interviews are doing them more harm than good, in my opinion.

Focus on what it does, especially what it does better than other similar games or the things that no other game does. Focus on the USPs.

Obsidian: “We’re eschewing classes in favor of focusing on skill based growth and dual wielding any feasible combination of defensive and offensive weapons and spells”

Article gets written up with the headline that the game won’t have classes.

My rule for DnD based/inspired games is: No playable dwarves, no buy!

There’s always Palworld…

 

[Kacho]

I think Pillars 2 mega bombed. Sawyer talks about it all the time. It was such a bomb that he was burned out on writing anything and seemingly is stepping away from fantasy for a bit and was his motivation to create Pentiment. I'm not surprised they're trying a more mainstream approach with this one.

They're going to miss the recent Baldur's Gate wave, but their decision is logical after Pillars 2.

Yeah it did sadly. I remember it being unceremoniously dumped on Steam. The character builds were amazing. A huge step up over the first game.

I don’t fault Obsidian going in a new direction with Avowed, I welcome it. But not at the cost of too much complexity. We won’t know how good or bad it is until it drops, so all we can do is speculate based on the news we get.

 

[Kacho]

Ah, that's very valid, I wondered if it was something like that. Appreciate it! I'm assuming this may be the sign of them taking a more casual route?

Yeah seems to be part going a more casual route and a reduced scope due to lack of budget.

 

[Stuart360]

You shouldn't be. Obsidian never promised us that there would be 5+ races for us to choose from. The people shitting on the game and making lists about "missing features" simply don't like the publisher of the game and will do anything to downplay this title up to release.

Its always the group that probably wont even be playing the game that are always the most 'concerned' on here.

Anyway i always pick human in rpg's anyway.

 

[SmokedMeat]

lmao, man
someone post a compilation of stuff that Avowed straight up doesn't have. Wasn't there recently news that it doesn't feature romance as well?

No romance in my first person monster slaying RPG?!!

Are they even thinking of Gen Z players?!

 

[mayham2199]

Pillars was a big part of the recent cRPG renaissance. They created a custom ruleset based on D&D 3.5 iirc. Part of the appeal of the series was full character customization with multiple races each with bonuses.

With Avowed they appear to be simplifying things to the extreme. Console war nonsense aside, this is disappointing to people on an enthusiast gaming board.

I should probably check out the thread on RPG Codex for this and Vampire TMB2. I bet they are having a field day.

PIllars was my first CRPG in like over a decade and I loved it. It's a shame to see them do this for Avowed. I was excited when I heard this was set in the same world and since then I've just been disappointed. I'm glad others are finding some kind of excitement for this game but my hope in this game being good died after seeing the combat trailer. Same character using like 5 different weapons? No thanks.

 

[H From Steps]

It's literally what they say in the article.

It’s like people aren’t reading lol

 

[FoxMcChief]

It’s like people aren’t reading lol

Selective reading.

 

[DAHGAMING]

Xbox sadly realy is the Netflix of the game world. Pump out budget watered down shit, its sad, I think of all the great ip they have and I can just see them all turning into "its alright" type of games, the odd complete shitter but never a banger.

 

[ShaiKhulud1989]

The game might have been rebooted, but nowhere in the statement you posted indicates that the budgets are the same, and i highly doubt that since Obsidian is hiring since 2018.

So, it seems I've lost another part of the quote from the interview in my initial message(thanks, iOS!) so it's easier to just let it flow than to derail the thread. I'll take my L with the grace of a rhino.

 

[DenchDeckard]

To be honest, after seeing last night's showcase all these games looked better to me. Not better than sonys showcase I mean it makes the graphics look better if that makes sense. Better than they may have originally looked after first viewing. I went back and reaatched all the trailers and avowed is easily up their with what the industry is putting out in general.

I don't think there's any stand out games on these consoles for anything gameplay wise and graphically everything looked on par with each other.

Just my opinion but avowed actually looks better after yesterday's playstation event. I never thought it looked bad but now it definitely is up there with the beat looking games (outside of death stranding 2 and hellblade)

Indy looks down right amazing.

 

[cash_longfellow]

Oh you can bet they will add more later, for a price lol

 

[Punished Miku]

Oh you can bet they will add more later, for a price lol

They will probably go full steam ahead into Outer Worlds 2.

 

[Klayzer]

More importantly, where was Gondor when the Westfold fell?

No my lord, we are alone.

 

[cash_longfellow]

They will probably go full steam ahead into Outer Worlds 2.

I wouldn’t be mad about that at all lol

 

[delfrickintree]

No romance in my first person monster slaying RPG?!!

Are they even thinking of Gen Z players?!

Romance in gaming is for weirdos. We should be slaughtering enemies, maybe bang a few maidens as a mundane task such as crafting a blade, but whatever. Outside of like wasteland2 where you can sleep with a hooker and get an STD for the lolz, what the hell is the point? Pretty sure only furries care about weird fantasy romance.

 

[ZoukGalaxy]

Game has so many "NO" that I don't even know why people are waiting this game.
The only fact that open world is more like Fallout NV (small and crowded) instead of Skyrim or Fallout 3 killed any interest for me. I want to get lost in a world, not meet a NPC at every corner, empty space for exploration is just fine.

 

[MarkMe2525]

I see how this works. You have two ways to present this information. One would be, "Avowed allows players to play as Elfs in addition to playing as a Human" or "Avowed only lets you play as Elfs or Humans". I guess only one of these is in line with the current Meta of shitting on the game.

 

[darth.shrimp]

Elfs? Elfs? But no Dawi?!

 

[Beer Baelly]

I'll play it with GP

 

[Boralf]

Bit off-topic but for people who are desperate for a game like this (Elder Scrolls-like RPG?), have you tried Enderal? Its free on Steam if you own Skyrim.

 

[ReBurn]

Today feels like a slow news day. I mean reading this I don't even think it's something I should be disappointed about. Why should I be disappointed about this? More options are a good thing, but maybe it'll all make sense when the game releases?

We're at the pretend concern stage of the cycle. People are pretending to be concerned that it's not exactly like every other game in the genre instead of pretending to be concerned that it is just like every other game in the genre. The actual quality of the game is irrelevant right now.

 

[Danjin44]

Elfs? Elfs? But no Dawi?!

Elfs are the best..

 

[Topher]

Only thing that disappoints me about any of this is the fact that this was supposed to be Obisidian's take on Skyrim. Not sure if that comparison was ever really accurate or if some in the media made that up themselves. Either way, that was the expectation and this game is light years from that. So.....fine. Time to scale back my expectations and look at this game with a clean slate.

 

[Ozriel]

That'd make for a better marketing campaign, too. These interviews are doing them more harm than good, in my opinion.

Focus on what it does, especially what it does better than other similar games or the things that no other game does. Focus on the USPs.

Obsidian: “We’re eschewing classes in favor of focusing on skill based growth and dual wielding any feasible combination of defensive and offensive weapons and spells”

Article gets written up with the headline that the game won’t have classes.

Game has so many "NO" that I don't even know why people are waiting this game.
The only fact that open world is more like Fallout NV (small and crowded) instead of Skyrim or Fallout 3 killed any interest for me. I want to get lost in a world, not meet a NPC at every corner, empty space for exploration is just fine.

It never occurred to you that other people are perfectly fine with that?

Only thing that disappoints me about any of this is the fact that this was supposed to be Obisidian's take on Skyrim. Not sure if that comparison was ever really accurate or if some in the media made that up themselves. Either way, that was the expectation and this game is light years from that. So.....fine. Time to scale back my expectations and look at this game with a clean slate.

It was an accurate comparison at reveal in 2020. They pivoted away from that years ago, and have communicated that design decision to players since last year.

 

[Topher]

It was an accurate comparison at reveal in 2020. They pivoted away from that years ago, and have communicated that design decision to players since last year.

That's what I'm talking about. Not this race stuff specifically, although that's part of it, but the fact that were this started and where it is now is dramatically different.

 

[killatopak]

Bit off-topic but for people who are desperate for a game like this (Elder Scrolls-like RPG?), have you tried Enderal? Its free on Steam if you own Skyrim.

I’m already playing Skyrim right now but was interested in Enderal before. I forgot but is it compatible post SE. Like post 1.5.97.

I’d also suggest others to look out for Project Tamriel. It’s a project that seeks to make the whole of Tamriel in Morrowind engine. Specifically in the same age as TES3. Meaning all those lore that the sequel retconned are now faithfully built from the ground up. Most commonly known retcon is Cyrodiil being rolling hills and plains as opposed to being a jungle in older TES lore.

The only region made for now is Skyrim and Cyrodiil which are completely playable. Very huge emphasis on the Reachmen, Bretons and old Nordic traditions. Karthwasten is described as a huge trading hub in old lore but in TESV it‘s just a small mining town. This mod rectifies that as an example.



However, if you think Morrowind style isn’t up to your modern taste, there’s also Beyond Skyrim which seeks to do the same on TESV engine. For this one, Cyrodiil and Morrowind are the ones that have their work being done.

 

[Boralf]

I’m already playing Skyrim right now but was interested in Enderal before. I forgot but is it compatible post SE. Like post 1.5.97.

If you play it through Steam you don't need Skyrim (SE) installed, you just need to own it. It has it's own store page and everything.