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[IntentionalPun]

This game really is garbage for a demo like this lol.. just total crap as far as finer details of textures and geometry.. the game probably already looks barely different from 1440p native to 4k.

 

[Md Ray]

What does that have anything to do with the series S though? All of these cards are more powerful than any of the current gen consoles.

Do you say AMD cards are more future proof due to VRAM?

Consoles define the baseline for multiplat game development, and Series S is the lowest common denominator of this gen.

There are other factors as well, but more VRAM can be one of them for future proof.

 

[Kazekage1981]

Well, to AMD's credit at least they are doing something, and its only going to improve with time....amirite?

 

[RoyBatty]

I only have AMD products (Series/PC) and so far it looks abit shit... It benefits everyone if it looks like it can boost performance without tanking image quality but after that video I'm not confident

I had a RTX card from day one and DLSS looked really bad in it first steps, but now is a lot better. Having said that I hope at least on "Ultra" it looks similar to native with the % profit.

In the video 6800 XT Ultra doesn't look really bad like the 1060 comparison. But I'll wait for third parties test.

 

[Dream-Knife]

Consoles define the baseline for multiplat game development, and Series S is the lowest common denominator of this gen.

There are other factors as well, but more VRAM can be one of them for future proof.

I gotcha. You mean to play games at 1440p above 60 fps right?

Right now I'm playing everything at 144-170 fps.

 

[Defrop]

Some Microsoft-shills are slowly going crazy

 

[Dream-Knife]

Some Microsoft-shills are slowly going crazy

I think he's mixing up his stuff. Didn't Phil say that the series X was the only console to fully use it or something along those lines?

 

[Mr. PlayStation]

Some Microsoft-shills are slowly going crazy

This guy makes Tom Warren more reasonable and sound with logic sometimes

 

[OneTruth]

 

[Rea]

I think he's mixing up his stuff. Didn't Phil say that the series X was the only console to fully use it or something along those lines?

They are twisting words and made it purposely souded like DX12U features are RDNA2 features. RDNA2 cards supported Dx12U features such as Raytracing, VRS, SF, Mesh shaders.

Ps5 RDNA2 is customized, they don't use DX12U. they have thier own API, PS5 supports its own features such as GPU cache scrubbers, customized Geometry engines, Customized I/O controllers. PS5 doesn't support DX12U, not necessarily means, it has no such features. It has their own. For better or for worse? Who knows? We have to let the games do the talking.

 

[ZehDon]

This guy makes Tom Warren more reasonable and sound with logic sometimes

Side note: Brad Sams is basically Microsoft's go-to controlled leaker. For him to publicly say he thinks AMD's CEO herself is lying could mean Microsoft has shown details that explicitly state as much. It's no small thing and Brad Sams isn't some rando on twitter.

We know Microsoft delayed manufacturing to implement "full RDNA2". However... no one from Microsoft has ever fully clarified what this means, and no one has been able to explain what differences exist between Sony's "customed RDNA2" and Microsoft's "full RDNA2". Mark Cerny knows his shit: if he didn't wait for full RDNA2, you can bet that there was a reason. What does that actually mean? No one knows, and we won't know, until Microsoft or Sony tell us.

 

[Rea]

Side note: Brad Sams is basically Microsoft's go-to controlled leaker. For him to publicly say he thinks AMD's CEO herself is lying could mean Microsoft has shown details that explicitly state as much. It's no small thing and Brad Sams isn't some rando on twitter.

We know Microsoft delayed manufacturing to implement "full RDNA2". However... no one from Microsoft has ever fully clarified what this means, and no one has been able to explain what differences exist between Sony's "customed RDNA2" and Microsoft's "full RDNA2". Mark Cerny knows his shit: if he didn't wait for full RDNA2, you can bet that there was a reason. What does that actually mean? No one knows, and we won't know, until Microsoft or Sony tell us.

Xbox series X|s are also not full RDNA2, they are missing one of the main features of Rdna2, infinity cache, same as PS5. Xbox series X|s supports their own direct X api is not surprising. Xbox one also supports DX12 in previous generation but Playstation does not. Microsoft is twisting words to make it sounds like PS5 is weaker machine, which is missing many features. In fact it does not. Playstation has it's own answers for those features implemented in different way.

 

[CrustyBritches]

Here's a couple screens I took from a 4K webm download from the 4K Youtube video...

 

[Robot Carnival]

seems like something great for people with older GPUs and hopefully it helps for folks keep on using them for a while longer with the GPU markets these days. thou the performance feels a little wanting. we'll see once it's actually out and people get their hands on it. hopefully it's good enough.

 

[MonarchJT]

They are twisting words and made it purposely souded like DX12U features are RDNA2 features. RDNA2 cards supported Dx12U features such as Raytracing, VRS, SF, Mesh shaders.

Ps5 RDNA2 is customized, they don't use DX12U. they have thier own API, PS5 supports its own features such as GPU cache scrubbers, customized Geometry engines, Customized I/O controllers. PS5 doesn't support DX12U, not necessarily means, it has no such features. It has their own. For better or for worse? Who knows? We have to let the games do the talking.

well in all honesty those features you listed are not in rdna2 gpus..... the pillar of rdna2 are mesh shaders (geometry engine use old primitive shaders and not meshlets) ,VRS 2.0 (multi sources saying that PS5 absolutely doesnt have the 2.0) ,SFS (there isnt in the PS5), and DXR ...(we know PS5 have its own version)
PS5 can have maybe their own flavour of it but certainly not like the patented one coming from AMD so we do not know how they will perform when they will be used and above all there is still no confirmation of their presence. My opinion as always been that Microsoft wouldn't (and neither would Brad) risk a legal battle over this. you may believe that Ms as Brad are playing with words ... but people should accept that Sony alike could play with their silence on specs in the same exact way..letting the fans believe that inside the PS5 there is everything and more.
In practice, those who think that there is everything in PS5 make me laugh and they are exactly the same as those who say the opposite, indeed perhaps they have less evidence.

 

[Md Ray]

Yikes!

 

[Rea]

well in all honesty those features you listed are not in rdna2 gpus....

Which features? Cache scrubbers? Of course not in PC, lol.

the pillar of rdna2 are mesh shaders (geometry engine use old primitive shaders and not meshlets

Where is the actual result that mesh shaders is superior to primitive shaders, i would like to see. They might even be the same hardware.

but people should accept that Sony alike could play with their silence on specs in the same exact way..letting the fans believe that inside the PS5 there is everything and more.
In practice, those who think that there is everything in PS5 make me laugh and they are exactly the same as those who say the opposite, indeed perhaps they have less evidence.

What makes you think that Sony's silence means there's nothing?
I also want to laugh people when they says "Sony silence on something means it doesn't have."
Do you know that Dual sense has lower latency than Xbox controllers? Is sony bragging and talking about it? Nope.
Sony's never mentioned about their improved DualSense latency.
So, Sony's silence means they are inferior?

 

[Marlenus]

Wide user base + ease of implementation is probably going to make this a standard, especially if / when it gets baked into the popular game engines.

For me though native or bust.

 

[ZywyPL]

This is so delusional it hurts.

6900XT beats 3090 at newest games, despite:
1) having less transistors
2) consuming less power
3) using MUCH slower VRAM

All that merely 1 year after 5000 series.

And none of that matters when you're at the shop and have to decide which card to get for the same money. Actually with the list above, one would've though Radeons should've been considerably cheaper then NV counterparts, which as we all know isn't the case. AMD not even caught up in resterization but actually outdone NV in that matter, that's a really good thing, but whenever RT/DLSS is enabled their cards are 2-3 gens behind when it comes to performance, you might not like it but that's what people see, way more FPS, and nothing else matters. But as you said, they did a gigantic progress within just one year, so chances are whenever 7000 cards show up, they'll be fighting toe to toe in all fronts.

 

[M1chl]

Some Microsoft-shills are slowly going crazy

Just woke up

 

[kinjx11]

This guy makes Tom Warren more reasonable and sound with logic sometimes

You haven't seen the real MS shell yet

 

[Md Ray]

You haven't seen the real MS shell yet

 

[Rea]

You haven't seen the real MS shell yet

Wtf is he saying. He's Delusional and unhealthy.

 

[CamHostage]

...no one from Microsoft has ever fully clarified what this means, and no one has been able to explain what differences exist between Sony's "customed RDNA2" and Microsoft's "full RDNA2".

This is the craziest console cycle. We're half a year into having these boxes in our homes, and we still are guessing what's actually inside the boxes. We almost have no demos yet of their "real power" even (R&C RA and Horizon are great and all but are both still in that "PS4.5" range of early console products taking traditional technology and cranking them to the max, whereas we've always had demos in the past of something that couldn't be done before that even launch games don't deliver, and aside from Rift Apart's fast loading, those glimpses have been few and far between.) By this time in other consoles' lifetimes, we'd have a bunch of tradeshows and after-Christmas title announcements plus 2 GDCs come and gone that show the games we already own are just the tip of the iceberg.

 

[MonarchJT]

Which features? Cache scrubbers? Of course not in PC, lol.

precisely.

Where is the actual result that mesh shaders is superior to primitive shaders, i would like to see. They might even be the same hardware.

from the tests it would seem that processing the data in meshlets and you have a more granular control makes the GPU more performing by a lot. Could it be the same hw? may you have evidence about it? We only know that the geometry engine works with primitive shaders the rdna2 GPUs do not.

What makes you think that Sony's silence means there's nothing?
I also want to laugh people when they says "Sony silence on something means it doesn't have."

For various reasons

1 marketing :... would not have allowed to pass the idea that the console did not have all the specifications of the competition , just like it happened with the RT where Cerny himself reiterated his presence.

2 Logic: just like Schrödinger's cat, both versions are perfectly valid until someone "looks inside the box" and tells us otherwise

3 Legal: Microsoft could not lie in official statements concerning competition, and since the news that the Sony console was not rdna2 had been reported in all the international most famous industry outlets and there was talk on the forums and on YouTube ..Twitter for months and months ... I find it difficult to trust that the rumors have not disturbed Sony.

4 Production timing, AMD leak and info from sony engineers: I don't want to stay here and repeat things said and resaid millions of times .

in practice everyone can have their own idea about it, at least until Sony tells us the specifications or the developers can not use parts of rdna2 in development (as with vrs2) everyone will be right.

Do you know that Dual sense has lower latency than Xbox controllers? Is sony bragging and talking about it? Nope.
Sony's never mentioned about their improved DualSense latency.
So, Sony's silence means they are inferior?

Probably because they haven't actually improved latency over the old DS. Unlike Microsoft which, while not reaching Sony's levels, has improved it compared to the old version.

 

[mansoor1980]

You haven't seen the real MS shell yet

 

[AdjudicatorHead]

This whole RDNA2 debate is pretty stupid to be honest. Both GPUs were designed using RDNA2’s architecture as a base. Sony removed some features that they didn’t need in order to lower costs, to allow them to add custom features they wanted, such as cache scrubbers etc. You can see the results in first party PS5 games.. they look absolutely stunning.

PS5 not having all RDNA2 features doesn’t make it “not RDNA2” and to be honest, who cares what it is when PlayStation is delivering games of this calibre. I’m still waiting to see live gameplay of anything close to as impressive as Ratchet, DS, MM or Horizon running on XSX.

 

[ZywyPL]

This is the craziest console cycle. We're half a year into having these boxes in our homes, and we still are guessing what's actually inside the boxes. We almost have no demos yet of their "real power" even (R&C RA and Horizon are great and all but are both still in that "PS4.5" range of early console products taking traditional technology and cranking them to the max, whereas we've always had demos in the past of something that couldn't be done before that even launch games don't deliver, and aside from Rift Apart's fast loading, those glimpses have been few and far between.) By this time in other consoles' lifetimes, we'd have a bunch of tradeshows and after-Christmas title announcements plus 2 GDCs come and gone that show the games we already own are just the tip of the iceberg.

For real, now as you mentioned it, the consoles did indeed used to have all sorts of tech-demos during their reveals, like PS3 ducks, all the infamous trailers, or PS4 sorcerer from QD or Deep Down, to get a glimpse of what will now be possible in the upcoming generation, and now we got nothing, just some specs/features spreadsheets and that's it. Although the consoles do feel rushed, like they could use an additional year, so that's probably also the reason there are not tech-demos this time around.

 

[Thesuffering79]

This whole RDNA2 debate is pretty stupid to be honest. Both GPUs were designed using RDNA2’s architecture as a base. Sony removed some features that they didn’t need in order to lower costs, to allow them to add custom features they wanted, such as cache scrubbers etc. You can see the results in first party PS5 games.. they look absolutely stunning.

PS5 not having all RDNA2 features doesn’t make it “not RDNA2” and to be honest, who cares what it is when PlayStation is delivering games of this calibre. I’m still waiting to see live gameplay of anything close to as impressive as Ratchet, DS, MM or Horizon running on XSX.

Wouldnt the idea of something having a feature mean it has a full set of that feature? Normally you would say "partial feature x" if the full set isnt there?

 

[AdjudicatorHead]

Wouldnt the idea of something having a feature mean it has a full set of that feature? Normally you would say "partial feature x" if the full set isnt there?

GPU architectures don’t really work like that though. RDNA2 isn’t a feature, it’s a GPU architecture. The set of added features are secondary to the chip design (ie. silicon layout), transistor size etc, which are the main hallmarks of a GPU architecture. As Cerny hinted, one of the PS5’s features will likely be in RDNA3, but nobody is seriously suggesting that the PS5 is RDNA3 or partial RDNA3, because that’s not really how GPU architectures work.

If Nvidia released a low cost Ampere GPU which didn’t have any RT cores, but was still using Ampere chip design and process size, it would still be an Ampere GPU.

 

[Rea]

precisely.

Then what's your concern? PS5 gpu is unique, that's why PC don't have.

from the tests it would seem that processing the data in meshlets and you have a more granular control makes the GPU more performing by a lot. Could it be the same hw? may you have evidence about it? We only know that the geometry engine works with primitive shaders the rdna2 GPUs do not.

You need to watch road to ps5 again, what Cerny saying the same thing. For the hardware part, leviathan guy said the hardware might be the same. That's to be confirmed. Until you provide me a proof that mesh shader is superior than primitive shaders, then it is subjective. We don't know which is better or worse or the same.

And why they haven't actually improved latency over the old DS. Unlike Microsoft which, while not reaching Sony's levels, has improved it compared to the old version.

Lol, Then why not Sony's advertising it? For example, called it the "lowest input latency controller they have ever made" or give it some name like "Ultra reflex latency controller ". Lol.

1 marketing :... would not have allowed to pass the idea that the console did not have all the specifications of the competition , just like it happened with the RT where Cerny himself reiterated his presence.

They don't have to market like it is full RDNA2, because they don't give a shit how their GPU is called, they just called it Custom RDNA2. which has all the basic features as RDNA2, higher power efficiency, higher clock, hardware Raytracing. the one missing is the infinity cache.

2 Logic: just like Schrödinger's cat, both versions are perfectly valid until someone "looks inside the box" and tells us otherwise

The logic is abit off, like i already said, Sony's silence doesn't necessarily means that they are inferior.

3 Legal: Microsoft could not lie in official statements concerning competition, and since the news that the Sony console was not rdna2 had been reported in all the international most famous industry outlets and there was talk on the forums and on Twitter for months and months ... I find it difficult that the rumors have not disturbed Sony.

Sony's don't give a shit about them. And Ps5 is not RDNA2, it is called "customed RDNA2". Why they should react to everything twitter said? Sony's only cares about games. That's all matters for gamers. In the end, who's gives a shit whether PS5 is RDNA -1 or 0. We all buy consoles for games. And they are delivering. Next week we got to experience the glimpse of what next gens games gonna be like. What other platforms has a game coming out in next week which can compete with a game like RnC? Let's chill and relax, enjoy our games. Stop listening to MS FUDs. By the way, MS is known to spread FUD. That's a fact.

 

[Klik]

Sooo uhm do you think this would work for PS5 games or is it just for PC?

As if could PS5/Xbox developers use it to get stable 60fps in games while keeping 4k res and good visual fidelity?

 

[Riky]

People call it MS Fud but go and read the joint statement with AMD at the reveal of RDNA2 again, what it actually says is not that Series consoles are full RDNA2 at all, that's just in people's minds. It says it has hardware support for the performance saving features that AMD put into RDNA2.
VRS, SFS and Mesh Shaders, we have seen this with Tier 2 VRS in Gears games and the Metro Dev saying they are using a software version on PS5 when asked about VRS support.
It was AMD saying it.

 

[yamaci17]

Sooo uhm do you think this would work for PS5 games or is it just for PC?

As if could PS5/Xbox developers use it to get stable 60fps in games while keeping 4k res and good visual fidelity?

yes it will work across all platforms

 

[MonarchJT]

Then what's your concern? PS5 gpu is unique, that's why PC don't have.

You need to watch road to ps5 again, what Cerny saying the same thing. For the hardware part, leviathan guy said the hardware might be the same. That's to be confirmed. Until you provide me a proof that mesh shader is superior than primitive shaders, then it is subjective. We don't know which is better or worse or the same.

Lol, Then why not Sony's advertising it? For example, called it the "lowest input latency controller they have ever made" or give it some name like "Ultra reflex latency controller ". Lol.

They don't have to market like it is full RDNA2, because they don't give a shit how their GPU is called, they just called it Custom RDNA2. which has all the basic features as RDNA2, higher power efficiency, higher clock, hardware Raytracing. the one missing is the infinity cache.

The logic is abit off, like i already said, Sony's silence doesn't necessarily means that they are inferior.


Sony's don't give a shit about them. And Ps5 is not RDNA2, it is called "customed RDNA2". Why they should react to everything twitter said? Sony's only cares about games. That's all matters for gamers. In the end, who's gives a shit whether PS5 is RDNA -1 or 0. We all buy consoles for games. And they are delivering. Next week we got to experience the glimpse of what next gens games gonna be like. What other platforms has a game coming out in next week which can compete with a game like RnC? Let's chill and relax, enjoy our games. Stop listening to MS FUDs. By the way, MS is known to spread FUD. That's a fact.

as i said there's no proof from both sides . Everything is finally about games when they use the SFS mesh shader etc etc if the gap widens we will have the answer. But at m all the hypotheses are valid so mocking those who think that the console lacks some function has the same weight as saying the opposite.

 

[llien]

And none of that matters when you're at the shop and have to decide which card to get for the same money. Actually with the list above, one would've though Radeons should've been considerably cheaper then NV counterparts

Lower power consumption does matter, even if one doesn't care about electricity costs.

Radeons is the reason 2080Ti + 35-45% perf MSRP is at $650.
If not Radeons, NV's 3070 would be sold as 3080 (and have 16GB and higher price).
3080 would have 20GB and be called 3080Ti.
And 3060 would not laugh at VRAM configs of faster brethren either.

This is just another example of turning a blind eye to what AMD does, if anything.

 

[llien]

Training on the actual source material made it a bad solution, not a good one

You should tone down your all encompassing-knowledge tone, bro.

Per game training on higher resolution assets makes perfect sense, as how one "reconstructs image" depends on game's visuals.

ML projects fail frequently, essentially, most of the time it is POC/research of "can it work", with no guarantees that it would.

So both DLSS 1.0 and 2.0 use tensor cores?

Tensor cores are nothing but "a bunch of parallel FP ops", something that GPUs are inherently strong at anyhow.
One could use them, but doesn't have to, if there is enough firepower (there definitely is at least on higher end models)

 

[Rea]

It says it has hardware support for the performance saving features that AMD put into RDNA2.

Well Microsoft has API for PC games developers which is DX. AMD collaborate with Microsoft and supports DX features, is really not surprising. RDNA2 is a PC graphics card after all. lol.

the Metro Dev saying they are using a software version on PS5 when asked about VRS support.
It was AMD saying it.

Can you provide the source?

 

[Riky]

Well Microsoft has API for PC games developers which is DX. AMD collaborate with Microsoft and supports DX features, is really not surprising. RDNA2 is a PC graphics card after all. lol.

Can you provide the source?

Read the statement it's freely available, AMD wouldn't be saying it if it wasn't true, it talks specifically about hardware support not DX12.
Metro Dev tweeted a chart on what features were supported in the new version of Metro and VRS was one of them, when asked how if PS5 didn't support it they replied they were using a software version, search for it on here you'll find it.
MS went on to say that they further customised the APU for machine learning which was confirmed by another developer when he was comparing the systems.

 

[MonarchJT]

Well Microsoft has API for PC games developers which is DX. AMD collaborate with Microsoft and supports DX features, is really not surprising. RDNA2 is a PC graphics card after all. lol.

Can you provide the source?

 

[MonarchJT]

sorry double

 

[Kumomeme]

lmao im not suprise if 5 years later people here still debating which one of the console has 'FULL RDNA2"

 

[assurdum]

Read the statement it's freely available, AMD wouldn't be saying it if it wasn't true, it talks specifically about hardware support not DX12.
Metro Dev tweeted a chart on what features were supported in the new version of Metro and VRS was one of them, when asked how if PS5 didn't support it they replied they were using a software version, search for it on here you'll find it.
MS went on to say that they further customised the APU for machine learning which was confirmed by another developer when he was comparing the systems.

 

[MonarchJT]

he saying the truth . in what reality do you live?

 

[Rea]

Metro Dev tweeted a chart on what features were supported in the new version of Metro and VRS was one of them, when asked how if PS5 didn't support it they replied they were using a software version, search for it on here you'll find it.

Yea, so let's see how much is the difference, does the game currently out on next gen consoles?

MS went on to say that they further customised the APU for machine learning which was confirmed by another developer when he was comparing the systems.

Yeah, only there is no game which is taking advantage of it. (Is auto HDR using ML?)
PS5 already have one.

Read the statement it's freely available, AMD wouldn't be saying it if it wasn't true, it talks specifically about hardware support not DX12.

I never said AMD doesn't have hardware support for DX12U, it does. But those features are not RDNA2's, it is DX12U. AMD collaborated with Microsoft to incorporate into RDNA2 pc graphics cards also Nvidia is doing the same. If you're saying those are AMD's exclusive features, is pure wrong.

 

[Riky]

For someone who claims to have me on ignore you quote a lot of my posts

No actual relevant discussion from you as usual.

 

[Skifi28]

Aaaaand we're back to the "Full RDNA2" crap. I'm out.

 

[MonarchJT]

Aaaaand we're back to the "Full RDNA2" crap. I'm out.

because you don't accept reality or what ?
for what matters neither the Xbox has the IC present in the rdna2 desktop GPU so it too is not 100% rdna2

 

[Riky]

Yea, so let's see how much is the difference, does the game currently out on next gen consoles?

Yeah, only there is no game which is taking advantage of it. (Is auto HDR using ML?)
PS5 already have one.

I never said AMD doesn't have hardware support for DX12U, it does. But those features are not RDNA2's, it is DX12U. AMD collaborated with Microsoft to incorporate into RDNA2 pc graphics cards also Nvidia is doing the same. If you're saying those are AMD's exclusive features, is pure wrong.

Metro is out this month I believe, I wasn't talking about the difference because I don't know until we see it but it confirms the AMD statement.
Jason Ronald has been interviewed several times about ML and an array of things they are using it for.
The features AMD talk about are not DX12U exclusive, AMD says the Series consoles have the AMD versions of hardware support for those features, those features will be used in the PC space which doesn't just use DX12U.

 

[nekrik]

Some Microsoft-shills are slowly going crazy

Wtf is he saying. He's Delusional and unhealthy.

and one big