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[64bitmodels]

I like them as much as the next guy but can't we all admit hack and slashes are a far more diverse, complex and interesting genre (even if the majoritys of them are singleplayer)
Most modern 2d beatemups never really do much to advance the genre as much as they just cash in on nostalgia of the arcade, (look at streets of rage 4 to prove my point) while hack and slash games have been carrying that torch for decades now with amazing animation, intricate combo systems and a flurry of moves to execute (as well as just being more cinematically appealing- like look at MGR which looks genuinely insane)
Honestly, it feels like a very outdated relic of the past that was resurrected just for the sake of cashing in on nostalgia
what do you think though

 

[Nickolaidas]

Some people prefer to keep it simple and not have to do overcomplicated combos and whatnot.

And 2d gameplay in brawlers keeps things simple and less disorienting.

 

[ParaSeoul]

 

[Kokoloko85]

They dont need to advance, they are great multi player games. There needs to be more of them though, we hardly get any. SOR4 was great

Id love to see a new Guardian Heroes, where they can go a bit deeper with the RPG mechanics, have different classes, learn new moves/magic. Double/triple team moves. And have some more towns and hubs for more NPC interactions etc

But if they dont, it would still be a buy for me. I love beat em ups, we need more

 

[64bitmodels]

Id love to see a new Guardian Heroes, where they can go a bit deeper with the RPG mechanics, have different classes, learn new moves/magic. Double/triple team moves. And have some more towns and hubs for more NPC interactions etc

Guardian heroes is one of the few i think REALLY tries to elevate the genre. I don't like the movement in that game though, why switch between 2 lanes when other games just let you walk wherever?

 

[SpiceRacz]

I'm assuming when you say "hack n slash", you're referring to 3d action games like DMC or Ninja Gaiden. I get your point on some level, but I find myself going back to stuff like Streets of Rage 2, The Simpsons, Turtles in Time, etc. more often than any hack n slash game that I can think of.

 

[yet_another_alt]

The best beat em up is The Warriors so I guess OP is kinda right.

 

[Danjin44]

What isn't considered "overrated" these days, entire world is "overrated"....

 

[yurinka]

I like them as much as the next guy but can't we all admit hack and slashes are a far more diverse, complex and interesting genre (even if the majoritys of them are singleplayer)
Most modern 2d beatemups never really do much to advance the genre as much as they just cash in on nostalgia of the arcade, (look at streets of rage 4 to prove my point) while hack and slash games have been carrying that torch for decades now with amazing animation, intricate combo systems and a flurry of moves to execute (as well as just being more cinematically appealing- like look at MGR which looks genuinely insane)
Honestly, it feels like a very outdated relic of the past that was resurrected just for the sake of cashing in on nostalgia
what do you think though

I think you have no idea

 

[Kokoloko85]

Guardian heroes is one of the few i think REALLY tries to elevate the genre. I don't like the movement in that game though, why switch between 2 lanes when other games just let you walk wherever?

Hmmm, I get how you feel. I use to feel the same. Some of the moves would be harder to pull off if you could walk up and down. Some of them need that Zangief style specials lol

The music in that game alone is legendary

 

[64bitmodels]

What isn't considered "overrated" these days, entire world is "overrated"....

I think you have no idea

ideas are overrated.
also yes the world is overrated, i mean we can live on it but we have to share it with a bunch of other people, diseases, insects, animals and fish. and those inconvenience more often than not Not to mention the fact the atmosphere is crumbling thanks to all the CO2 being released daily

 

[nikos]

I’ll take 3D beat ‘em ups over both.

 

[64bitmodels]

I’ll take 3D beat ‘em ups over both.

too bad they don't really exist outside of yakuza, the warriors and bully

 

[amigastar]

Nah, i don't really dig Hack and Slash like God of War, DMC and Bayonetta, i prefer Beatemups.

 

[jaysius]

I'd rather a bad Beat 'em off than a mediocre hack and slash.

 

[Spukc]

Agreed

Fun but not really to replay imo.

 

[64bitmodels]

Id love to see a new Guardian Heroes, where they can go a bit deeper with the RPG mechanics, have different classes, learn new moves/magic. Double/triple team moves. And have some more towns and hubs for more NPC interactions etc

also i think i have the EXACT TYPE of game for you

 

[Ghost of Caelid]

Old style games for old heads...they are kind of mindless so I don't enjoy them.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

It's a silly comparison. Hack-n-slash games tend to be focused on intricate combos and significantly more complicated mechanics. Beat-em-ups are readily understandable and streamline that complexity. The genre is more focused on crowd control, managing the screen, and smart use of very scarce resources (eg. weapons, health pick-ups, your own health bar if it's depleted to perform certain attacks.) It's a totally different type of appeal, but one that arguably has a similar amount of depth. Granted, there are beat-em-ups that do approach hack-n-slash games in terms of complexity, like Knights of Valour, Gaia Crusaders, and Guardians (aka Denjin Makai II).

Modern beat-em-ups are okay, but generally kind of pale imitations that are dumbed down to make sense for a console audience. Castle Crashers was the beginning of the end for the genre.

 

[jigglet]

It's only cause most of them were button mashers with no real depth to the combat system.

Viewtiful Joe is an example of beatem up perfection.

 

[64bitmodels]

It's a silly comparison. Hack-n-slash games tend to be focused on intricate combos and significantly more complicated mechanics. Beat-em-ups are readily understandable and streamline that complexity. The genre is more focused on crowd control, managing the screen, and smart use of very scarce resources (eg. weapons, health pick-ups, your own health bar if it's depleted to perform certain attacks.) It's a totally different type of appeal, but one that arguably has a similar amount of depth. Granted, there are beat-em-ups that do approach hack-n-slash games in terms of complexity, like Knights of Valour, Gaia Crusaders, and Guardians (aka Denjin Makai II).

Modern beat-em-ups are okay, but generally kind of pale imitations that are dumbed down to make sense for a console audience. Castle Crashers was the beginning of the end for the genre.

Took the words right out of my mouth. I should have specified more, but i like beatemups, it's just that a good chunk of everything after the 90s ended up being kind of mediocre and not really worth revisiting
As well as the fact that the genre is just kind of mindless when compared to how absurdly indepth and goofy hack and slashes can become

 

[01011001]

hack n slays also didn't really evolve much since Bayonetta 1... the opposite is kinda true tbh.

beat em ups are a completely different subgenre here tho, they are heavily coop based, and I don't know a signle coop based hack n slay that is even close to being as good as Streets of Rage 4 or old classics like Alien vs Predator

 

[64bitmodels]

hack n slays also didn't really evolve much since Bayonetta 1... the opposite is kinda true tbh.

beat em ups are a completely different subgenre here tho, they are heavily coop based, and I don't know a signle coop based hack n slay that is even close to being as good as Streets of Rage 4 or old classics like Alien vs Predator

i can see where you're coming from, but where beatemups stopped was mindless simple fun that mostly ended up being rooted more in the 90s than anything
while hack and slashes stopped at extremely technical cool fun that has an extremely high skill ceiling and is absurdly rewarding for anyone who takes the genre more seriously
also i do agree that hack and slashes fucking suck when it comes to co op, hack and slashes do not lend themselves well to multiplayer
but on the other hand, beatemups aren't very interesting when it comes to singleplayer, and chances are there are more people in gaf who play singleplayer than there are multiplayer cuz yall tend to have no bitches in this forum

 

[TheKratos]

Coop beatemup is the best fooking genre.

 

[Space Runaway]

I treat 2d beat-em ups like shmups. Quarter feed to beat them once, then try to 1cc them. The fun of them is that they're arcade based so they're quick satisfaction.

 

[64bitmodels]

I treat 2d beat-em ups like shmups. Quarter feed to beat them once, then try to 1cc them. The fun of them is that they're arcade based so they're quick satisfaction.

I like shmups more because while they fall into a similar problem they tend to be more entertaining purely based off of their goofy difficulty most of the time.
also, they're one of the most beautiful video game genres on the planet. Parodius, dodonpachi and mushihimesama are fucking beautiful

 

[DelireMan7]

Most modern 2d beatemups never really do much to advance the genre

This brings me back to a discussion I had with a friend about videogame being one of the only media where it's kind of mandatory to bring technical innovation or new features with each new iteration.
(Movies sequel are not excepted to upgrade their visuals neither books sequel to bring new "features" for example)

You cited Streets of Rage 4 as an example. I agree that except for the graphics, it's mainly a throwback to past games and it's an amazing game for me.

Our discussion originated from Elden Ring. We both love it but find that it lost something compare to the first Dark Souls with the addition of too many options.
The addition of new animation, combos, features is not always a plus for me.

I don't want to derail more the thread. Might do a thread on that discussion. I find it interesting.

On topic, I like play some 2D Beat em up from time to time. Do they feel similar to the one I played 20 years ago ? Yes. Is it a bad thing ? No.
I don't think the race for "innovation" or "advancing a genre" is always a good thing in gaming.

 

[64bitmodels]

This brings me back to a discussion I had with a friend about videogame being one of the only media where it's kind of mandatory to bring technical innovation or new features with each new iteration.
(Movies sequel are not excepted to upgrade their visuals neither books sequel to bring new "features" for example)

You cited Streets of Rage 4 as an example. I agree that except for the graphics, it's mainly a throwback to past games and it's an amazing game for me.

Our discussion originated from Elden Ring. We both love it but find that it lost something compare to the first Dark Souls with the addition of too many options.
The addition of new animation, combos, features is not always a plus for me.

I don't want to derail more the thread. Might do a thread on that discussion. I find it interesting.

On topic, I like play some 2D Beat em up from time to time. Do they feel similar to the one I played 20 years ago ? Yes. Is it a bad thing ? No.
I don't think the race for "innovation" or "advancing a genre" is always a good thing in gaming.

I understand, but at the same time, most people tend to HATE movie sequels and book sequels unless they're part of a grander story the author wanted to write for that exact reason
and Beatemups as a genre has been very stagnant for the past 20 years when games like guardian heroes and castle crashers prove how the genre can be so much more and stand on its own when compared to hack and slashes
but the majority of games don't really do that these days, and that makes me kind of sad.

 

[Bankai]

 

[DelireMan7]

I understand, but at the same time, most people tend to HATE movie sequels and book sequels unless they're part of a grander story the author wanted to write for that exact reason
and Beatemups as a genre has been very stagnant for the past 20 years when games like guardian heroes and castle crashers prove how the genre can be so much more and stand on its own when compared to hack and slashes
but the majority of games don't really do that these days, and that makes me kind of sad.

I am not sure what you want to say about the movie/book sequel. I would say people just want the story to advance in a sequel.

That's not the case in gaming. People wants the story to advance, new features, better graphics, new gameplay options... I wish some game sequel are just the same game than the previous one on every point except the story.

But I feel you with on Beat'em up. I am just a casual player of them but it's true they look pretty similar in the majority. There should be more "outliers"

 

[64bitmodels]

I am not sure what you want to say about the movie/book sequel. I would say people just want the story to advance in a sequel.

a lot of movie sequels (especially ones made in the 90s/00s) tend to be very lazily made and are usually rehashes of the first movie's plot that don't add much to the original. That's why a lot of them are kind of forgotten, like halloween 2 and a good day to die hard.
Game sequels set themselves apart since usually more often than not they tend to be very well crafted expansions of the first game, like street fighter 2, megaman 2, halo 2, sonic 2, ratchet and clank 2, and- to even cite a really good beatemup, streets of rage 2. that's why the expectation is usually for the game to... yknow, improve on the original and why gamers are so much more critical of game sequels than movie sequels.

 

[SeraphJan]

Shmup and Beat'em up will always have its place

 

[Kokoloko85]

also i think i have the EXACT TYPE of game for you

Ah yes, I remember this thanks

 

[Tiamat2san]

 

[dreamcastluvr]

A bit of a generalized statement IMO. I love both retro and modern titles from both genres. Yeah sure there are certain titles that are better than others, and I'd argue that some hack n' slash titles are overrated (eg DMC) just like some beat 'em ups are too. So many underrated ones too though (eg Heavenly Sword).

too bad they don't really exist outside of yakuza, the warriors and bully

True they are few and far between, but they're out there! Dynamite Cop/ Deka series, SpikeOut, Urban Reign, Bouncer, MK: Shaolin Monks, Watchmen, and Death By Degrees are a few that come to mind that I really enjoyed. I realize there's varying levels of appreciation out there for these games, and that's of course where it gets subjective. But it can be argued that each one has it's own stylistic gameplay, visuals, mood, story, and characters that make them unique enough to avoid the general redundancy of their genre.

 

[Grizzled Ghost]

Hmm. I've always considered "hack 'n slash" to be Diablo style games. I thought DMC, GoW, etc were considered "character action games".

God Hand is a game I would consider to be an awesome, relatively modern Beat 'em Up.

 

[Nocturno999]

I'm not getting it completely. What makes hack and slash that much different from beat em ups? SOR 4 has variety in its gameplay.

If you are talking about 2D vs 3D... I think that 3D combat games need to evolve too. DMC 5 was great but too safe generally.

 

[SlimeGooGoo]

.

 

[cireza]

BTA are awesome, a ton of legendary games and instant fun. Same as SHMUPS.

 

[nush]

Coop beatemup is the best fooking genre.

Don't pick up the chicken I need it.
OK bro
FUCK you picked it up!
Sorry it was an accident!
Asshole!

* Real life beat em up ensues....

 

[anothertech]

Beat em ups in their glory days could be hack and slashers if you picked up the right weapons off the goons lol

AvP was a beat em up and a shmup.

I love all

 

[Come On Tars]

Best best em up of all time for me is AVP. River city randsom blew my mind with the rpg elements too. But I get what your saying OP.

 

[ManaByte]

 

[ACESHIGH]

This is like choosing your left nut or the right one.

 

[Gambit2483]

I love (good) 2D beat'emUps...especially with a good group of friends/strangers.

So no, they are not overrated but instead actually a really good (esp social) gaming genre.

 

[SmokedMeat]

2D beat ‘em ups were the shit back in the 16-bit era.

These days I find them dull and repetitive. I wish I could say I still love them, but…I’m bored after a couple stages. Even Streets of Rage was been there done that after a bit.

I’m still getting Ninja Turtles though.

 

[Labolas]

Shit like parries, wallbounces, combos, and stun locking exist in beatemups. SOR4 and Fight'nRage are examples of this.

 

[InfiniteCombo]

As a huge fan of classic (especially 16-bit era) beat em ups, I... actually agree with the OP. The genre is overrated.

I think by its very nature, the genre has a relatively low ceiling of possible innovation and variety. I think of it almost as American blues music, which I love -- in its purest form, it's one of the most awesome forms of music out there, but I can only take it in small bursts because of just how limited it is. You can augment it -- the original Delta blues (just a singer with his guitar) got augmented to an electric quartet configuration... But even then, the form itself ran into limitations pretty fast.

So you can augment a beat em up with RPG elements, with limited combos, and with other techniques, but at the end of the day you're still going around doing basic crowd control, and pressing the same combination of two (at most 3) buttons to beat up waves and waves of the same enemies, just in slightly different configurations.

It's just the reality. And again, this is coming from me -- Turtles in Time and the original arcade version of Final Fight are two of my absolute favorite video games of all time.

 

[ManaByte]

Yesterday: TMNT announced to be day 1 on a certain subscription service.
Today: 2d beat-em-ups are overrated

 

[Archaic101]

I agree, OP. Even some of the best beat em ups -that introduce drastically varied abilities per character (D&D: Shadows Over Mystara) or things like mounts and multiple paths (Golden Axe: RoDA)- eventually get dull by about the third stage.

They were great for the arcade era, but that's about it.