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[SmokyDave]

Actually, I think it's pretty good. Watching the video is disturbing, and it makes you think of mutilation. He did a good job in transcribing the horror of the thing.

He might have made a mistake in how he depicted black people but that comes after the message to me.

And if the white people laughing were part of the exposition then yes it is genius.

I was wondering about that. The thing is, if we assume that white people ignoring female circumcision is abhorrent, is it fair to assume that people want white, western people to intervene in Africa in order to stamp out African cultural practices?

Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.

 

[MasLegio]

I was wondering about that. The thing is, if we assume that white people ignoring female circumcision is abhorrent, is it fair to assume that people want white, western people to intervene in Africa in order to stamp out African cultural practices?

Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.

regardless of where they are, some cultural practices should be eradicated. Whether it is forced circumcision (male and female), Islamistic Taliban style culture, oppression against females, honor culture or racism.

 

[SmokyDave]

regardless of where they are, some cultural practices should be eradicated. Whether it is forced circumcision (male and female), Islamistic Taliban style culture, oppression against females, honor culture or racism.

I agree, but I'm not sure that the world at large does.

 

[Bossun]

I was wondering about that. The thing is, if we assume that white people ignoring female circumcision is abhorrent, is it fair to assume that people want white, western people to intervene in Africa in order to stamp out African cultural practices?

Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.

It's funny that you said that because it's something I thought about a long time ago.

We are trying to erase a part of some African culture solely base on our opinion of what is wrong and right. We see body mutilation (unwanted) as something extremely evil without realizing that to some cultures it's perfectly normal.
And in no way, absolutely no way, we should force our way of living unto them.
It's a bit of a god complex that we have.

Yet we also see more and more victims coming out and trying to make it stop. Meaning it's even controversial amongst their own people now so it's kind of hard to know what to do.

 

[Jarmel]

Wow that picture. I mean the white people laughing in the picture just amplifies everything.

 

[fanboi]

Question!

If it was a white cake and a black woman eating, would it be a problem?

 

[Jarmel]

Question!

If it was a white cake and a black woman eating, would it be a problem?

If it was using a wellknown caricature of a white person with a bunch of black people laughing, yes there would be.

 

[shanshan310]

As a black man I gotta say, even if he's trying to call attention to the issue, it's a vulgar and tasteless way to do it. I'm not sure what good he hopes to accomplish from all this, but shock and revulsion as an activist tactic rarely (read: pretty much never) ends up positively affecting the cause in question.

In this day and age things need to be shocking or people don't notice them.

It's funny that you said that because it's something I thought about a long time ago.

We are trying to erase a part of some African culture solely base on our opinion of what is wrong and right. We see body mutilation (unwanted) as something extremely evil without realizing that to some cultures it's perfectly normal.
And in no way, absolutely no way, we should force our way of living unto them.
It's a bit of a god complex that we have.

Yet we also see more and more victims coming out and trying to make it stop. Meaning it's even controversial amongst their own people now so it's kind of hard to know what to do.

Except that this particular cultural aspect makes it very painful for women and girls to give birth, have sex or even pee. Its incredibly unsanitary and many people die from infection.

To be honest I am not really in favour of the Americanisation of the world, but there is a big difference between that and trying to raise awareness and prevent the continued practice of genital mutilation (which is what it is).

 

[Bossun]

regardless of where they are, some cultural practices should be eradicated. .

No they should not. What is bad to you is probably not to some other culture. We could say that only if we asked every people of said culture their opinion on the practice and it turns out negative.

 

[Onemic]

Question!

If it was a white cake and a black woman eating, would it be a problem?

Must this question always come up?

 

[Jarmel]

No they should not. What is bad to you is probably not to some other culture. We could say that only if we asked every people of said culture their opinion on the practice and it turns out negative.

So we should allow honour killings because a society thinks it's okay?

 

[Bossun]

So we should allow honour killings because a society thinks it's okay?

Yes. Because who are you to come on your mighty horse and tell them how to act? If 90% of the population agrees with it (even the "victims" side) then in no way we have the right to change it. And you'll be surprised on the percentage of people agreeing to such practices among the cultures, even if they have been victims of it.

Obviously that doesn't apply if you are doing this in a country that doesn't allow it.

And to make it clear : I do not agree with these kind of practices, it's just equally wrong to try and change cultures solely based on how we think people should act.

 

[Onemic]

So we should allow honour killings because a society thinks it's okay?

Other countries should allow America's practice of gun culture and intervention to be okay? It's all relative man. You can denounce such a thing, but I don't believe in intervening on another country simply because of a God complex.

 

[Jarmel]

Yes. Because who are you to come on your mighty horse and tell them how to act? If 90% of the population agrees with it (even the "victims" side) then in no way we have the right to change it.

Obviously that doesn't apply if you are doing this in a country that doesn't allow it.

And to make it clear : I do not agree with these kind of practices, it's just equally wrong to try and change cultures solely base on how we think people should act.

You could justify a lot of atrocities by that standard.

 

[Clayton Bigsby]

Defense Force for honor killings? Yeah...Officially seen a defense for everything.

 

[MasLegio]

No they should not. What is bad to you is probably not to some other culture. We could say that only if we asked every people of said culture their opinion on the practice and it turns out negative.

so we should accept little girls being attacked, tortured or killed because they want to get educated?

 

[shanshan310]

When I first moved to Australia, I briefly shared a house with a Swedish couple who were also recent arrivals. On our first trip to a cafe together, the guy went up to the counter to see what they had, then innocently asked 'are those nigger balls?'.

I know Australians have a reputation for being racist, but man, that did not go down well with anyone.

You saw some Swedish people say the n word in Australia, so Australians are racist? Okay, makes total sense.

Really? I always hear Australians talk about how people usually view others based on where they're from(ie US, UK, Canada) rather than their race. But then again they did have all those fucked up immigration laws back in the day....

Yeah, we had "white immigration policy". In the 20's. Didn't the US still have slaves into the 60's?

 

[Bossun]

You could justify a lot of atrocities by that standard.

Well we have to differentiate cultural practices that has been going on since the beginning of the culture and free atrocities.

Defense Force for honor killings? Yeah...Officially seen a defense for everything.

No I'm defending cultural practices, I never talked about Honor killing specifically.

so we should accept little girls being attacked, tortured or killed because they want to get educated?.

No because you'll find out in this case that a majority of people want women to get educated and the only reason they can't it's because some crazy men want to keep everything under their control.


But you obviously have problems grasping the concept of cultural practices, wich is something the vast majority avec the population agrees with.

 

[Clayton Bigsby]

You saw some Swedish people say the n word in Australia, so Australians are racist? Okay, makes total sense.

How did you come to that conclusion? His point was that even though Australians have a reputation for being racist, the swedish couple's blatant use of the "N" was met with disdain.

 

[MasLegio]

You saw some Swedish people say the n word in Australia, so Australians are racist? Okay, makes total sense.




Yeah, we had "white immigration policy". In the 20's. Didn't the US still have slaves into the 60's?

read a book,
no read lots of books

cause you are definitely lacking in comprehension and history

 

[Clayton Bigsby]

read a book,
no read lots of books

cause you are definitely lacking in comprehension and history

Yeah, I honestly thought it was a joke post.

 

[Jarmel]

Well we have to differentiate cultural practices that has been going on since the beginning of the culture and free atrocities.

How do we define culture? Popularity or length? I'm also sure that people would disagree with another person on what is part of a culture or not. All it is is just repeated events done in the past. So we should respect history just because? How do you separate something from becoming what is viewed as culture in the future?

 

[shanshan310]

read a book,
no read lots of books

cause you are definitely lacking in comprehension and history

On the white Australia policy? I'll readily admit I don't have great knowledge of it. I know there were still parts of it left over in the 50's and 60's. My point was that it was bullshit and doesn't represent us as a people today. The US, on the other hand, still seems to be crippled by racism still left over from its past.

Yeah, I honestly thought it was a joke post.

Thanks for sharing buddy.

 

[travisbickle]

Black face is used a lot in modern art as a way of expressing and questioning black identity. I mean you could call any use of black face racist but you are going to be calling a lot of very influential art racist too.

 

[Clayton Bigsby]

On the white Australia policy? I'll readily admit I don't have great knowledge of it. I know there were still parts of it left over in the 50's and 60's. My point was that it was bullshit and doesn't represent us as a people today. The US, on the other hand, still seems to be crippled by racism still left over from its past.

It was more about your hilarious assumption that the US had slaves into the 1960's.

Thanks for sharing buddy.

I'm not your buddy, guy.

 

[Bossun]

How do we define culture? Popularity or length? I'm also sure that people would disagree with another person on what is part of a culture or not. All it is is just repeated events done in the past. So we should respect history just because? How do you separate something from becoming what is viewed as culture in the future?

Well if you go in a country and 70% (just a number I don't know at what point it can be considered that it's a country practice) of the population say to you " Yes in this country if someone say an insult you can shoot him in the head on the spot, it's been like that since *insert a long enough date*" and find it normal. Well I'm sorry it's inhuman but it's part of the culture.

If 70% of the population say that's it exist but it's wrong and should be banned then yes we can act.

How do you separate something from becoming what is viewed as culture in the future?

That's the thing. It's not your job, it's not my job, it's the people of said countries' job. If tomorrow 95% of France population say (and totally agree with) that from now on we should cut the little toes of every French as a way to show our belonging to the french community will you come and say "Stop because us, Americans, think this is wrong"?

 

[shanshan310]

I'm not a guy, buddy.

It was more about your hilarious assumption that the US had slaves into the 1960's.

They still had that maid system, and lynchings. I have little interest in American history. You expect all foreigners to know everything about the history of your country? Again, you miss the point.

 

[nubbe]

Just saw it on Kulturnyheterna.

It was disturbing more than anything else IMO.

And now I will eat this Swedish pastry.

Can you guess what this is called?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Vb_FY_mDNI

We call them winerbrads

 

[Onemic]

You saw some Swedish people say the n word in Australia, so Australians are racist? Okay, makes total sense.




Yeah, we had "white immigration policy". In the 20's. Didn't the US still have slaves into the 60's?

I thought they had that other immigration law about mandatory detention for those seeking asylum until around 2005? And the US stopped having slaves in the 1850's or around there I think. If it was the 1960's....I don't think black people would have the level of freedom they do now. Not that I think Australians are inherently racist, as that comment from the poster is the first I've ever heard of such a thing.

 

[Clayton Bigsby]

I'm not a guy, buddy.



They still had that maid system, and lynchings. You expect all foreigners to know everything about the history of your country? Again, you miss the point.

The assumption that the US still had slaves in 1960 is hilarious and over shadows any point you were "trying" to make. I do not expect all foreigners to know everything about my country. I do expect those who comment on my country to have some basic knowledge of its history.

 

[Blutonium]

Obviously the depiction of Africans / female circumcision is the problem here, not the circumcision itself. I am outraged.

 

[MasLegio]

I'm not a guy, buddy.



They still had that maid system, and lynchings. I have little interest in American history. You expect all foreigners to know everything about the history of your country? Again, you miss the point.

Im swedish and knowing about the black liberation movement in USA (as well as basic reading comprehension) is part of general knowledge and basic education in every western country and should be as well in Australia, but it might have been omitted there due to your historic oppression against aboriginals.

 

[shanshan310]

Basically all of my Australian history at school was on the treatment of Indigenous people. What do you mean by that? I guess we focused more on our own issues.

I opted to take language instead of history in senior high school and thus didn't cover it specifically. We did incorporate it into other subjects, though we never went through dates or anything. I'm sorry for derailing the thread by not knowing a date (oh shit!).

The assumption that the US still had slaves in 1960 is hilarious and over shadows any point you were "trying" to make. I do not expect all foreigners to know everything about my country. I do expect those who comment on my country to have some basic knowledge of its history.

You don't consider those maids to have basically been slaves?

If you're going to get worked up over shit like that and not respond to my actual statement I'd rather you just stop trying.

I thought they had that other immigration law about mandatory detention for those seeking asylum until around 2005? And the US stopped having slaves in the 1850's or around there I think. If it was the 1960's....I don't think black people would have the level of freedom they do now.

Um, we still have mandatory detention of unprocessed Asylum Seekers, and I think this has been the case for a while. Its shitty and the government really needs to reduce the time they spend in detention, but until they are processed (ie. identified, most of them don't have ID) the government considers it inappropriate for them to be in the community.

 

[aku:jiki]

As a swede, I'm pretty ashamed of this scandal. Worthless piece of junk "art" that doesn't even understand its own message and is racially confused and pretty offensive. Why the fuck is there blackface and why the fuck is the girl shaped like a fertility idol? The fuck does that have to do with the message? This kind of stupid shit is why a lot people hate art, and it just brings the whole concept down and disgraces it. Pretty pissed that one of our ministers supported this dumbass garbage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Vb_FY_mDNI

We call them winerbrads

That's a havreboll, you liars.

 

[MasLegio]

As a swede, I'm pretty ashamed of this scandal. Worthless piece of junk "art" that doesn't even understand its own message and is racially confused and pretty offensive. Why the fuck is there blackface and why the fuck is the girl shaped like a fertility idol? The fuck does that have to do with the message? This kind of stupid shit is why a lot people hate art, and it just brings the whole concept down and disgraces it. Pretty pissed that one of our ministers supported this dumbass garbage.

That's a havreboll, you liars.

kokosboll (cocoball) you lying bastard

 

[Thrillhouse]

Seeing as we are now (partly) discussing the issue, here of all places, after something that happend in small and distant Sweden; the artist kinda got shit done?

 

[Clayton Bigsby]

You don't consider those maids to have basically been slaves?

If you're going to get worked up over shit like that and not respond to my actual statement I'd rather you just stop trying.

No, I dont. Maids were treated shitty. But Maids =/= Slaves. Taking that position is a disservice to the atrocities of slavery. I have a hard time believing someone can even begin to call them similar. Yet I see it on my screen...

 

[Onemic]

Basically all of my Australian history at school was on the treatment of Indigenous people. What do you mean by that? I guess we focused more on our own issues.

I opted to take language instead of history in senior high school and thus didn't cover it specifically. We did incorporate it into other subjects, though we never went through dates or anything. I'm sorry for derailing the thread by not knowing a date (oh shit!).



You don't consider those maids to have basically been slaves?

If you're going to get worked up over shit like that and not respond to my actual statement I'd rather you just stop trying.



Um, we still have mandatory detention of unprocessed Asylum Seekers, and I think this has been the case for a while. Its shitty and the government really needs to reduce the time they spend in detention, but until they are processed (ie. identified, most of them don't have ID) the government considers it inappropriate for them to be in the community.

I thought they removed the mandatory detention of children in 2005?

 

[shanshan310]

I thought they removed the mandatory detention of children in 2005?

Children, yes. Adults, no.

 

[aku:jiki]

kokosboll (cocoball) you lying bastard

Kokosbollar have kakao and are thus dark brown. That's a havreboll.

Wait, kokosbollar are filled with whipped cream too. Are you drunk, sir?

Seeing as we are now (partly) discussing the issue, here of all places, after something that happend in small and distant Sweden; the artist kinda got shit done?

Since his goal is to be an attention whore and not actually to call attention to his cause, yeah, I guess he did succeed.

 

[Fusebox]

It was more about your hilarious assumption that the US had slaves into the 1960's.

Slaves, no. But down South you guys still had public racial segregation at that time so it isn't as though institutional racism was over.

 

[shanshan310]

Slaves, no. But down South you guys still had public racial segregation at that time so it isn't as though institutional racism was over.

That's what I was trying to say ;.;

 

[Captain Tuttle]

Female circumcision is absolutely repellent, and deserves a serious debate launcher: like a black woman cake.

The most offensive thing is calling this tripe art.

Two very good posts.

 

[Clayton Bigsby]

Slaves, no. But down South you guys still had public racial segregation at that time so it isn't as though institutional racism was over.

Agreed. Racism was still alive and well. This wasn't the issue. It was claiming slavery was still around in 1960 and it was akin to being a maid was my problem. America has had a very shitty past in regards to racism.

 

[rezuth]

Well we do have icecream called Nogger Black and 88 in Sweden. We also have chocolate coconut balls which are often called... yeah I think you can figure it out.

I am personally disturbed by all this, but most people in this country don't seem to be able to realize how offensive this is.

Wait, are you saying that had something to do with the term "nigger"? It was called that because it was a nougat ice-cream, they later launched it in 2007 with a licorice cover on it and an unfortunate name that people took offense by.
88'an was named that because it was the 88th product they did.

It did create awareness through provoking, also surprised at how many black people in my facebook which are shitting at National Afro-Swedish Association for this.

 

[shanshan310]

Agreed. Racism was still alive and well. This wasn't the issue. It was claiming slavery was still around in 1960 and it was akin to being a maid was my problem. America has had a very shitty past in regards to racism.

They have a lot of present problems too.


v Nor was I. That was my point.

 

[Clayton Bigsby]

They have a lot of present problems too.

I was not trying to imply otherwise. But since your comments on maids and slavery leads me to believe you really do not know anything about race relations in America.

 

[Korey]

What the fuck

 

[TheContact]

Omg dat cake...

 

[dojokun]

People who supposedly need to have this explained to them are feigning ignorance. Blackface is not only offensive because of its history. Blackface is offensive because it clearly caricatures black ethnicity, distorting African features to portray blacks as ugly and subhuman. Everyone knows this, but some people will resort to intellectual dishonesty in order to defend racist practices.



The minister can't be racist, she has a black friend! The artist is an idiot looking for publicity, and he is hijacking an important cause - female circumcision - for his own benefit.

Hint: The title I proposed would not have made you focus on the minister. You obviously took your current position and looked for ways to validate it instead of reevaluating your position.