Support NeoGAF

[nynt9]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/james-rucker/can-black-people-trust-hillary_b_9312004.html

Today, Clinton is wrapping herself in the flag of Obama to appeal to Black voters, arguing that she’s the candidate who will address the needs of Black people. She’s got her surrogates attacking her opponent’s civil rights bonafides, and she’s built a large stable of Black establishment players to support her. Clinton is proclaiming that Black Lives Matter and offering bold promises to fight systemic racism and inequality.

But it’s hard to believe she’s serious about fighting for racial justice unless you pretend her 2008 campaign against Obama never happened. If you remember that period, there’s good reason to believe today’s promises are nothing more than lip-service to a community she sees as key to winning the nomination.

Back in March of 2007, Hillary Clinton’s chief strategist Mark Penn wrote a campaign memo that proposed painting Barack Obama as un-American or “other”:

“His roots to basic American values and culture are at best limited. I cannot imagine America electing a president during a time of war who is not at his center fundamentally American in his thinking and in his values ... Every speech should contain the line you were born in the middle of America to the middle class in the middle of the last century ... Let's explicitly own 'American' in our programs, the speeches and the values. He doesn't.“

...

“The candidate [Obama] very respectfully told her the apology was kind, but largely meaningless, given the emails it was rumored her camp had been sending out labeling him as a Muslim.”

In February 2008, the Drudge Report posted a picture of Obama in traditional Kenyan/Somali clothes (including a turban, which helped reinforce the “secret Muslim” smear). Drudge said the picture was circulated by the Clinton campaign.

...

Stephanie Tubbs Jones, a member of Congress and Clinton surrogate, when asked about the circulation of the photo, implied that Barack Obama is native to Kenya: “I have no shame, or no problem, with people looking at Barack Obama in his native clothing, the clothing of his country … if we’re supporting a woman or an African American for president, we ought to be able to support their ability to wear the clothing of their nation.”

She attacked Obama’s association with Rev. Wright not once, but on several occasions. And she launched these attacks after Obama’s deeply moving “A More Perfect Union” speech, where he both denounces some of Wright’s rhetoric, while speaking to the reality of race in America and Black Liberation Theology.

As Obama tried to move on from the manufactured controversy around Jeremiah Wright, the Reverend was thrust into the spotlight again with a highly publicized appearance at the National Press Club – which, it turns out, was organized by a longtime Clinton ally.

after Barack Obama’s victory in South Carolina in 2008 made it clear that most Black voters were supporting him, the Clinton campaign began making the argument that Obama was not electable because he was not winning enough support from white voters. The Clinton campaign implied, over and over again that, as a Black man, Obama could not attract the support of the white people (many of them racists, apparently) supporting Clinton’s campaign.

This pattern did not go unnoticed at the time. While many who might have otherwise spoken out likely limited their criticism – not wanting to anger a powerful political dynasty – many prominent Democratic and Black commentators and politicians did call it out.

There's more in the article so check it out. Some of these are more circumstantial than others, but there are clear racial undertones in the campaigning in 2008 to me. Not having lived in America in 2008, this is all new stuff to me, and it's really weird seeing all this now.

Can people who were around for it provide more context? Is this how you felt during that campaign? Is the article off base?

 

[nynt9]

I was pointed to these in the other (BLM) thread: http://www.politico.com/story/2008/01/racial-tensions-roil-democratic-race-007845

http://theweek.com/articles/567774/hillary-clinton-needs-address-racist-undertones-2008-campaign

The first one from 2008 is specifically damning, with even the typical MLK-bait comment

 

[dramatis]

Look, I get that you might just be very fired up right now, but the OT is being flooded. Can't you just post this in your other thread?

 

[jmood88]

The racist bullshit that Hillary, Bill, and Hillary supporters pulled out once Obama became a threat is the number one reason why I can't stand the Clintons and was hoping for a better candidate than Bernie to show up and deny her the democratic nomination a second time.

 

[theignoramus]

Actually, the worst was Hilldawg literally endorsing her pal John McCain for president over Barack Obama. She went across the aisle to undercut an opponent within her own party, that is as cutthroat as it gets.

"I think that I have a lifetime of experience that I will bring to the White House. I know Senator McCain has a lifetime of experience to the White House. And Senator Obama has a speech he gave in 2002."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/04/clinton-mccain-has-more-e_n_89758.html

 

[jtb]

Actually, the worst was Hilldawg literally endorsing her pal John McCain for president over Barack Obama. She went across the aisle to undercut an opponent within her own party, that is as cutthroat as it gets.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/04/clinton-mccain-has-more-e_n_89758.html

that's not an endorsement

 

[JesseEwiak]

The racist bullshit that Hillary, Bill, and Hillary supporters pulled out once Obama became a threat is the number one reason why I can't stand the Clintons and was hoping for a better candidate than Bernie to show up and deny her the democratic nomination a second time.

The vast majority of black people (including Obama, the actual target of said attacks) have obviously forgiven Hillary, why can't you?

 

[The Lamonster]

The vast majority of black people (including Obama, the actual target of said attacks) have obviously forgiven Hillary, why can't you?

Honestly this stuff coming out now just feels like the death throes of Bernie supporters, realizing she's about to become our nominee.

Republicans are doing the same thing with Trump. Going to be an interesting election with two well-known candidates, who no one really likes, going at each other.

 

[VendettaRed07]

Many do not. And I can certainly see why they wouldn't.

But many black voters do and they have explained their reasoning, even on this forum time and time again. Perhaps listening and accepting their reasoning instead of just acting constantly bewildered would be advisable. Just because you see her past as disqualifying doesn't mean everyone else has to.

 

[AlteredBeast]

Many do not. And I can certainly see why they wouldn't.

But many black voters do and they have explained their reasoning, even on this forum time and time again. Perhaps listening and accepting their reasoning instead of just acting constantly bewildered would be advisable. Just because you see her past as disqualifying doesn't mean everyone else has to.

Of course, this works both ways. Forgive and forget in politics is bullshit. Why can't we just vote for the best candidate with the least spotty record?

 

[jmood88]

The vast majority of black people (including Obama, the actual target of said attacks) have obviously forgiven Hillary, why can't you?

Honestly this stuff coming out now just feels like the death throes of Bernie supporters, realizing she's about to become our nominee.

Republicans are doing the same thing with Trump. Going to be an interesting election with two well-known candidates, who no one really likes, going at each other.

I'm not a Bernie supporter and I'll vote for Hillary when she gets the nomination but I'm not a fan of her and I won't forget what she did when she became desperate. She and Bill revealed who they really were once things didn't go their way and I won't ignore that.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

The vast majority of black people (including Obama, the actual target of said attacks) have obviously forgiven Hillary, why can't you?

I assume the people that aren't so open to forgiveness question her sincerity, and I can certainly empathize with that position.

 

[JesseEwiak]

Of course, this works both ways. Forgive and forget in politics is bullshit. Why can't we just vote for the best candidate with the least spotty record?

I agree. That's why I'm supporting Hillary - because she never honeymooned in the USSR or spent time with Central American anti-American Communist radicals.

 

[atr0cious]

Why can't we just vote for the best candidate with the least spotty record?

Because that candidate usually has the least amount of power to inact any change, so they end up passing like a fart in the wind. If politics were based on truth,the Trudeaus of the world wouldn't be rare.

 

[AlteredBeast]

I agree. That's why I'm supporting Hillary - because she never honeymooned in the USSR or spent time with Central American anti-American Communist radicals.

I know you are being facetious, but neither of those two things are policy or stance related. You could have talked about Bernie's gun control stance maybe, but decided to get stupid instead.

Seriously, though.

 

[VendettaRed07]

Of course, this works both ways. Forgive and forget in politics is bullshit. Why can't we just vote for the best candidate with the least spotty record?

Ask black voters who support Hillary. I can't answer that question. I'm not black and this isn't about what I think.

 

[AlteredBeast]

Because that candidate usually has the least amount of power to inact any change, so they end up passing like a fart in the wind. If politics were based on truth,the Trudeaus of the world wouldn't be rare.

America will never elect a Trudeau, let's be honest. Americans can barely contain their excitement to vote outright psychopaths into office.

 

[sphagnum]

I agree. That's why I'm supporting Hillary - because she never honeymooned in the USSR or spent time with Central American anti-American Communist radicals.

I wish she had!

 

[nynt9]

The vast majority of black people (including Obama, the actual target of said attacks) have obviously forgiven Hillary, why can't you?

I don't think it's about forgiveness. She seems to have the black vote (despite some prominent members of the black community siding with Bernie, but it's only some), but it's more about the overall picture here.

To me, and maybe it's because I'm inexperienced in American politics, it seems like she's willing to say whatever is necessary for her to win the position, regardless of how much she believes in it. In general she's on the correct side of things, which is nice, but it makes me question where her loyalties lie. I obviously still think she's better than anything the republicans can do, but she comes off as insincere to my observations. Maybe that will matter, maybe it won't. But I think it's important for her to acknowledge her past missteps instead of acting like she's never made a mistake. Her rhetoric towards black people seems very disingenuous in this regard. A few months ago she said "all lives matter" at a key speech to the black community. She stumped on a BLM question. I stand with BLM's purpose (I was ignorant of their cause at first but now I understand, I admit I messed up) and I think it's a huge issue America faces today, and it's important to me that whomever will lead this country (most likely her) takes this issue seriously.

 

[AlteredBeast]

Ask black voters who support Hillary. I can't answer that question. I'm not black and this isn't about what I think.

Why wouldn't people of all colors be concerned with voting for a candidate that has tact and common decency. This isn't about what black people think, it is about seeing the way Hillary has treated black people in the past, which should concern everyone:black, white, etc.

 

[Crocodile]

There's more in the article so check it out. Some of these are more circumstantial than others, but there are clear racial undertones in the campaigning in 2008 to me. Not having lived in America in 2008, this is all new stuff to me, and it's really weird seeing all this now.

Can people who were around for it provide more context? Is this how you felt during that campaign? Is the article off base?

Ok I was wondering why you even posted this thread. Yeah, pretty much every Black person who was politically active in 2008 knows all of this. Most of us weren't fans of how that played out at the time. It's certainly a "mark" on her record but it doesn't negate her positive qualities and looking at what she has done since then many/most have forgiven (though not forgotten).

Of course, this works both ways. Forgive and forget in politics is bullshit. Why can't we just vote for the best candidate with the least spotty record?

Aren't you being a little presumptuous? Who says people voting for Hilary don't think they are voting for the best candidate?

 

[BreezyLimbo]

...Wait, Hilary was one of the first people to imply that Obama was Muslim?(I didn't pay attention to politics in '08, was busy graduating and stuff)

Goddamn.

 

[nynt9]

Ok I was wondering why you even posted this thread. Yeah, pretty much every Black person who was politically active in 2008 knows all of this. Most of us weren't fans of how that played out at the time. It's certainly a "mark" on her record but it doesn't negate her positive qualities and looking at what she has done since then many/most have forgiven (though not forgotten).



Aren't you being a little presumptuous? Who says people voting for Hilary don't think they are voting for the best candidate?

Yeah, I immigrated fully in 2009 actually, so I just missed it. And with Obama being incumbent in 2012 the rhythm of the primaries wasn't like it is this year. So I'm learning a lot.

 

[AlteredBeast]

Most are, but I see a good amount of people voting for her because they feel that she has the best chance to win. Others wabt change in society, but don't want what Bernie plans to do happen to them (NIMBYists).

 

[balladofwindfishes]

...Wait, Hilary was one of the first people to imply that Obama was Muslim?(I didn't pay attention to politics in '08, was busy graduating and stuff)

Goddamn.

She also started the birther movement, or at least sowed the seeds that would eventually start it.

2008 was an ugly year.

 

[Jenov]

Hillary's impending wins must have a lot of people shook. So many anti-topics flooding OT now.

 

[DragonSworne]

So it was Hillary who Kickstarted this whole anti-Obama movement. Not surprised.

 

[Bruce Springsteen]

I think we need some more Hillary threads...

only if we have more Trump threads to balance it out

 

[Rur0ni]

The OP seems to target Clinton based on some communications from her staff, rather than things she said directly.

When the time came to get behind Obama, both her and Bill did. She was rightly humbled, and is probably better for it.

 

[dramatis]

She also started the birther movement, or at least sowed the seeds that would eventually start it.

2008 was an ugly year.

Depends on how you want to look at it, but no, Hillary didn't start the birther movement. It's one of those myths that are just a myth.

 

[Ishan]

Of course, this works both ways. Forgive and forget in politics is bullshit. Why can't we just vote for the best candidate with the least spotty record?

I'm not american so obviously take this with a grain of salt but I've been studying here and follow politics and if I were american I would be dem but lean Hilary not because she's the most sincere but rather because given the current situation I think her approaches and pushes Will be more achievable . look how much Obama had to struggle to push policy and Bernie is even further along . I get the appeal but I would push for a more realistic candidate given the environment (not candidate for election but rather what is achievable after elections as president) . now if this was a heavily dem leaning country with a Maj dem in Senate and congress possibly Bernie makes more sense . its a judgement call what is "best" in one perspective may not be in another etc .

 

[Veritigo_X]

She also started the birther movement, or at least sowed the seeds that would eventually start it.

2008 was an ugly year.

It was actually hardcore Hillary supporters (Hillaryis44 types) who are now Trump supporters (not kidding).

Obviously if this were an issue Obama wouldn't want anything to do with her, but he clearly trusts her.

 

[AlteredBeast]

Hillary's impending wins must have a lot of people shook. So many anti-topics flooding OT now.

Many of us don't want another politician who speaks out of both sides of their mouth...Hillary has historically been a pandering hawkish shill and is now expected to be the liberal messiah. She will be much better than the GOP nominee, obviously, but between Bernie and her, there is no competition. One seeks radical change to a broken system with stacked decks, while the other seeks to be Obama 2.0.

 

[sphagnum]

The birther/Muslim thing didn't start with Hillary herself, it started with Hillary stans who were grasping for anything to attack Obama with as the nomination contest drew on and on.

 

[Officerrob]

So it was Hillary who Kickstarted this whole anti-Obama movement. Not surprised.

He must loath her, I bet he never spoke to her again after 08...

With that said, Hillary fans not Hillary herself is where that garbage came from

 

[Dram]

People who are upset that Hilary may win the nomination are going to say its Black people's fault aren't they?

 

[jmood88]

It was actually hardcore Hillary supporters (Hillaryis44 types) who are now Trump supporters (not kidding).

Obviously if this were an issue Obama wouldn't want anything to do with her, but he clearly trusts her.

I still don't believe that the HillaryIs44 people were ever actually democrats or Hillary supporters to begin with. As soon as Hillary was done with they started posting nothing but right wing bullshit.

 

[Principate]

People who are upset that Hilary may win the nomination are going to say its Black people's fault aren't they?

Most probably.

 

[foxtrot3d]

Honestly this stuff coming out now just feels like the death throes of Bernie supporters, realizing she's about to become our nominee.

Republicans are doing the same thing with Trump. Going to be an interesting election with two well-known candidates, who no one really likes, going at each other.

Seriously, this. I'm amazed as a black voter how many white people seem to need to remind me of the issues affecting me and the community at large in addition to adding commentary on who is responsible and who will make it better.

I'm voting for Hilary, get over it.

 

[Slackerish]

She also started the birther movement, or at least sowed the seeds that would eventually start it.

2008 was an ugly year.

Your source please?

Was Hillary Clinton the Original ‘Birther’?

Did Hillary Clinton start the Obama birther movement?

 

[Jenov]

Many of us don't want another politician who speaks out of both sides of their mouth...Hillary has historically been a pandering hawkish shill and is now expected to be the liberal messiah. She will be much better than the GOP nominee, obviously, but between Bernie and her, there is no competition. One seeks radical change to a broken system with stacked decks, while the other seeks to be Obama 2.0.

Liberal messiah? Yeesh.

Here's your problem:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_obama_job_approval_among_democrats-1046.html

The vast majority of democrats are just fine with an Obama 2.0...

 

[Kimawolf]

Well I'm black and I think the 2008 election is reason to never vote for her in a primary. Sorry but all her lip service and bs she spouts now is meaningless. And it is amazing other black people manage to hand wave it away and everything to else to justify voting for her over Bernie. Her true colors are pretty obvious if you look hard enough.

That being said if(when) she becomes the nom I will vote for her. Reluctantly as she will definitely be the lesser of the two evils. But if she loses ID not be surprised. People really, really just don't like her, and all the dog barking and super delegate voting in the world won't change that.

 

[TharpDaddy]

People who are upset that Hilary may win the nomination are going to say its Black people's fault aren't they?

Reddit is gonna implode. The fervor for Bernie on that site is crazy high

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Your source please?

Was Hillary Clinton the Original ‘Birther’?

Did Hillary Clinton start the Obama birther movement?

Oh, it was her followers, not her.

Thanks, I had always just heard she had done it, or at least hinted at it enough that it just naturally happened.

Good to know it was another case of a losing candidate's "supporters" grasping at straws to make any wild conspiracy stick. Sounds a bit familiar actually.

 

[HK-47]

People who are upset that Hilary may win the nomination are going to say its Black people's fault aren't they?

I'm just waiting for the fireworks.

 

[theignoramus]

He must loath her, I bet he never spoke to her again after 08...

With that said, Hillary fans not Hillary herself is where that garbage came from

Keep your friends close and your enemies closer. That was a skillfull move by Obama, asking Clinton to be part of his administration. Not only did she bring the army of Clinton insiders with her, she wouldnt be running against him in 2012.

 

[King Tubby]

So it was Hillary who Kickstarted this whole anti-Obama movement. Not surprised.

She was Obama's first major political opponent on a national stage (Alan Keyes doesn't count). It's only natural.

 

[Crocodile]

People who are upset that Hilary may win the nomination are going to say its Black people's fault aren't they?

Real Talk? I'm already bracing myself for the shitstorm

I don't visit Reddit or 4chan so I'm really just hoping GAF OT stays readable

 

[Jenov]

People who are upset that Hilary may win the nomination are going to say its Black people's fault aren't they?

Prop 8 deja vu

 

[Angelus Errare]

People who are upset that Hilary may win the nomination are going to say its Black people's fault aren't they?

Probably.