GhostTrick
Banned
Then, unless I missed something in your post, like sarcasm (I'm bad at it :") ), how can you claim it's one of the most racially discriminating country ?
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Paris mayor demands black feminist festival that 'prohibits' white people be banned
- Thread starter Shiggy
- Start date
Then, unless I missed something in your post, like sarcasm (I'm bad at it :") ), how can you claim it's one of the most racially discriminating country ?
I never claimed that. I said, with my tongue firmly in cheek, that you wouldn't really know if it was, because France doesn't allow the collection of most information that could be used to paint a statistical picture.
GhostTrick
Banned
Yeah, my bad
Well, it could be. But you know what would happen if we did ? The far right would rejoice. Heck, we already have some """"""brillant minds"""""" elaborating a theory of "Grand Remplacement" as white people in France being conciously replaced by PoC. That's why we don't allow the collection of these informations, because being French isn't about a color.
Something White GenocideYeah, my bad
Well, it could be. But you know what would happen if we did ? The far right would rejoice. Heck, we already have some """"""brillant minds"""""" elaborating a theory of "Grand Remplacement" as white people in France being conciously replaced by PoC. That's why we don't allow the collection of these informations, because being French isn't about a color.
Something Muslim hordes enforcing sharia law somehow even though France is incredibly secular
GhostTrick
Banned
Aztechnology
Member
Lol, perfect.
Right, I understand from a theoretical standpoint why that would be the French position. It's laudable, but to be honest I also feel it suffers from a practically standpoint.Yeah, my bad
Well, it could be. But you know what would happen if we did ? The far right would rejoice. Heck, we already have some """"""brillant minds"""""" elaborating a theory of "Grand Remplacement" as white people in France being conciously replaced by PoC. That's why we don't allow the collection of these informations, because being French isn't about a color.
For example, the reason why the US requires those questions to be asked when applying for jobs is because discrimination based on race, sex, veteran or disability status is illegal. So if someone feels like a business is discriminatory in their hiring practices, well there can be a wealth of data used to help prove or disprove that assertion. In other words, if 10% of the people applying to work at a company are minorities and 10% of their workforce are minorities, that makes sense. But if 50% of applicants are minorities, but still are only 10% of the workforce, well that shows there is some sort of racial element to who is hired.
But in France, without access to this data, such issues would be much harder to prove, and seemingly much more difficult to notice on a societal level. Like I said, discriminatory practices could be a much bigger problem than you would ever know in France.
Alx
Member
Anti-racist associations do handle that issue using "testing" campaigns : they send candidacies with equivalent skills but different ethnic profiles, and check if the answers from companies seem balanced or not.
I think it's a better way of identifying potential discrimination, since the procedure makes sure to eliminate all other kinds of potential bias.
I think it's a better way of identifying potential discrimination, since the procedure makes sure to eliminate all other kinds of potential bias.
The myth* of an equalitarian Republic is still deeply rooted in France. When the reality hits the myth but the myth still stands, you have a problem : you can't attack the myth and the legal framework that is behind. It is the limit of an ideology (republican equality) facing issues that weren't solved under its hegemony (or were carried on and were legitimized by the myth). From an historical standpoint, it's the key to understand the debates we have in France - and the diversity of the republican lineage (far-right, conservative, left etc)
*"Myth has two main functions. The first is to answer the sort of awkward questions that children ask, such as: 'Who made the world? How will it end? Who was the first man? Where do souls go after death?' The second function of myth is to justify an existing social system and account for traditional rites and customs." Robert Graves
I'm not sure how you finished the game ghost trick if this is the limit of your deductive abilities. The intersection of racism (anti-blackness) and gender (women) is only unique to Black women, that's true. Why even make a comment like that assuming I have no idea of France's racial makeup. Did you read the article?
anti-blackness is an issue globally, but the french mayor realized she jumped the gun and let's hope it doesn't happen again.
I'm sure black women have unique experiences compared to other ethnicities but plenty of non-black women experience racism.
GhostTrick
Banned
Because when I read your new comment, yeah, you definitely have NO IDEA of France.
Racism and Sexism intersection isn't only unique to Black women. Especially not in France. I mean, it's not like we have a lot of arab-descent french people. If you're telling me arab women/jewish women/asian women don't suffer racism in France, I can't do anything for you.
But let me add more to it, you said "white people can't add more to this". The thing is, 80% of the festival was dedicated to black women only, are you saying for exemple, "arab women" can't add more to this ?
This.
GhostTrick
Banned
Are you claiming that intersection of racism and sexism is unique to black women too ?
Anti-blackness (which is perpetrated by all, including other poc) and sexism IS unique to black women. FOH.
GhostTrick
Banned
Right, obviously, but the poster you quoted didn't claimed so. Also care to be civil or are you going to be insulting me because I'm questionning the poster you agreed with ?
its awful that you'd try to conflate what these women are trying to do with basic racial discrimination to accomplish social control. but black is black, and white is white.
Both the original post and the one you quoted talked about racism and misogyny being a burden for black women only. The second one even seems to equate racism with anti-blackness only.
GhostTrick
Banned
conceptual, verbal, not physical. hell, maybe physical.
GhostTrick
Banned
Lol, I misread the date. I thought it the festival was going on right now and you were saying some idiots were lining up to get in to disturb it.
MistakenMobius
Member
And North African are white as well as mixed people according to this association.
I won't be surprised if it happens
Y'all really gonna overlook the qualifier used in that post, anti-blackness...really. You're all arguing in bad faith. And you're sorely mistaken if you don't think racial stratification imposed by whiteness doesn't make racism that black people receive, a very unique beast. Cyframe is right.
I know North africans which are blacker than my own dark reddish brown skin. I know North africans who are not and identify as African\non-white\arabic. It doesn't matter because the people trying to muddy the waters are European white.
I think now that we know how much people want to participate they should reformat the paradigm so that white people are in the front row. This is for the public after all.
GhostTrick
Banned
Right, so now we're arguing there are worse racism than others. Lol. As I said, you and Cyframe knows shit about France. Just tell about "whiteness" to North Africans decent in France, I think they're in for a huge laugh.
North Africans usually is about arabs/berbere/ people.
I was wrong. You're not arguing in bad faith. You're saying this proves you are just really ignorant. Holy shit.
You don't even need to look at north africans frankly, this particular group is good at differenciating between "good" and "bad" black people as soon as someone disagrees with them (with some insults of choice such as "house negro").
GhostTrick
Banned
Then, if I'm an ignorant, explain me. It's true, I'm not in bad faith, then let's stay civil and educate me on the matter. Maybe I misunderstood what you meant, honestly, if so, please explain me your point more in details.
Please expand on it i'm really interrested about it
its not that simple. would a dark skinned berber be turned away and a light skinned one not? what if they claimed whiteness or blackness? does it matter? do you see any differences if they did claim one over the other?
political social position and what you claim or what your intent is, its very different for the different sides in this. One is trying to create a movement for positive social change, the other is trying to manage the status quo and control those living under it. Play by our Rules, etc.
eh, I don't have the time.
GhostTrick
Banned
They don't claim whiteness or blackness, it's simple as that. Berbere people and arab people have their own history and language. And you know what, for everyone else, including arabs and berbere, it's not about skin tone but the origin itself.
MistakenMobius
Member
Let's be frank, for anyone outside of USA USA USA, the origin is probably as important as skin tone.
Royingha, Hutu and Tutsi can attest it without trouble.
excelsiorlef
Member
GhostTrick
Banned
Mammoth Jones
Member
I love that mofos that ain't even about the struggle gonna come and dictate the terms of someone elses struggle. Amazing. So disingenuous. Thanks, "allies".
harriet the spy
Member
It's almost as helpful as Americans exporting their brand of cultural imperialism to all issues in the world while largely lacking any useful knowledge of it.
GhostTrick
Banned
Gotdatmoney
Member
You don't actually take these people seriously do you?
excelsiorlef
Member
Inside joke
GhostTrick
Banned
Mammoth Jones
Member
If you feel some kind of way about it? You.
If you don't then not you.
Good point but not relevant to this thread. Why? Because it's sad to say but racism existed in Europe long before the new world. And it's still a problem all over.
This thread is hilarious. A bunch of americans trying to export their racism issues into a french event. The fuck is this?
Discrimination and racism definitely exist in France but xenophobia is the real problem. There isn't a black problem in France like you have in the USA, french people have a different history with that. But you have a lot of white french people hating the "banlieue" people who are essentially people of a different origin because they are scared of them, there isn't enough cultural mixity in some part of the country. Ignorance is the devil here.
Discrimination and racism definitely exist in France but xenophobia is the real problem. There isn't a black problem in France like you have in the USA, french people have a different history with that. But you have a lot of white french people hating the "banlieue" people who are essentially people of a different origin because they are scared of them, there isn't enough cultural mixity in some part of the country. Ignorance is the devil here.
excelsiorlef
Member
I want to hear it
We invented Nana Ruth as a joke character because a year or so back there were a ton of threads about protestors blocking traffic and some folks kept saying shit like MLK would never do that (he did... a lot) and started talking about strawgrandmas who will die or miss their doctor's appointment because of these protestors and won't someone think of the non existant grandmas.
From that Nana Ruth was born. A few of us will drop references to her when we want to be sarcastic about people getting irrational over how folk, usually black folk, are protesting or fighting for their rights.
Here I expanded that Nana Ruth is the American strawgrandma and Grand-mère Claire is the French one... just expanding on the joke.
I mean clearly French black feminists think there's an issue since ya know they are the ones who created the festival and all that jazz
Mammoth Jones
Member
Before the issue was the racism of not including everyone else to this meeting that so many non black women were just dying to go to. Now it's Americans exporting their views on racism?
Pro tip: when you have people "hating" other people then yea no shit it's ignorance. Most racism is rife with it. It's still racism.
If the French didn't want Americans weighing in on this issue because of cultural differences, maybe they shouldn't have invoked our civil rights leaders who fought American issues in the wake of a decidedly fragile white reaction towards a black feminist festival.
That's a tried and true American tradition.