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[Snowdonhoffen]

PS4 will hold back next gen PS5 games until 2022. Maybe 2023.

XSS will hold back next gen XSX games until 2027 and then NEXT next gen gaming for another 2 years since it will also have a cross gen period.



Sony has no shame lmao. As if lying through their teeth about it being a PS5 exclusive wasnt bad enough, look at how it says Coming 2021.


This probably belongs in the MS E3 thread, but I have been meaning to discuss the implications of this move by Sony and how MS can take the initiative and do what Sony did to them last gen. Remember #PS4NODRM? This could be it for MS. #XBoxNoLastGen. Right here right now at this E3, go out there and show the world what REAL next gen games look like.

Horizon looks very impressive but its no Hellblade 2. MS showed five CG trailers last year. 10 months should be plenty of time to make realtime in game trailers or vertical slices of those games. Doesnt matter if those games dont come out until 2023 or 2024. The narrative will shift immediately. MS will be the console maker offering gamers a true next gen experience while Sony is left with some cross gen games that look real pretty but play like last gen games.

UE5 demo shows that you can get photorealistic visuals like Hellblade 2. Fable can really go in on destruction, gorgeous cg visuals and dense forest design we didnt see in Horizon. State of Decay and Avowed could really push the envelope. The ball is in Microsoft's court. Sony has essentially taken the Nintendo route and removed themselves from the equation altogether by limiting themselves to last gen. It's time for MS to grab this opportunity and really show us what this 12 tflops console with 16 thread CPU and SSD can do.

Yes, this is a golden opportunity for MS to really showcase a lot of real next gen games. Unless Sony wanted to get out the "bad news" first and is getting ready to show some demos/trailers of upcoming next gen games this summer but at this point I'm not sure if they have something ready to be revealed. Almost every studio is either just beginning their next project (ND, Sucker Punch, Insomniac, etc) or we already know what they are working on (Guerrilla, Santa Monica, Polyphony, etc) so it really is a mystery what can we expect from their next big event when it comes to fully next gen games.

 

[twilo99]

Wait, is the PS4 more powerful than the XSS? Doesn't the S have an ssd and rdna2 or something.

I'm just confused as to what is holding next gen back more.. the ps4 or the series S

 

[Bernd Lauert]

PS4 will hold back next gen PS5 games until 2022. Maybe 2023.

XSS will hold back next gen XSX games until 2027 and then NEXT next gen gaming for another 2 years since it will also have a cross gen period.

Imagine comparing the XSS to the PS4. The PS4 uses a 10 year old tablet CPU and has an ancient piece of shit HDD as the I/O bottleneck. XSS is not just on another level, it's in an entirely different universe.

 

[Ryu Kaiba]

Didn't we already know this?

 

[Phase]

Yes, this is a golden opportunity for MS to really showcase a lot of real next gen games. Unless Sony wanted to get out the "bad news" first and is getting ready to show some demos/trailers of upcoming next gen games this summer but at this point I'm not sure if they have something ready to be revealed. Almost every studio is either just beginning their next project (ND, Sucker Punch, Insomniac, etc) or we already know what they are working on (Guerrilla, Santa Monica, Polyphony, etc) so it really is a mystery what can we expect from their next big event when it comes to fully next gen games.

The fact that big games are released so infrequently nowadays has really, I feel, dampened the excitement of gaming in general.

 

[Ryu Kaiba]

Now might be a good time to take a break from videogames. Or at least we will know after E3.

 

[SlimySnake]

Imagine comparing the XSS to the PS4. The PS4 uses a 10 year old tablet CPU and has an ancient piece of shit HDD as the I/O bottleneck. XSS is not just on another level, it's in an entirely different universe.

I just read my post again. I did not compare the xss to the ps4.

I am comparing the length of time each console will hold back their respective generation. Not each other.

It should be clear to anyone with a brain that the ps4 will hold back next gen far more than the xss. But if you buy the idea of a 4 tflops 7.5 gb console holding back next gen then you must apply that logic all the way till the end of the gen and then the cross gen period of next gen which will take us to 2029 when the ps5, not the ps4 will be holding back next next gen.

 

[White-fire]

Yes, this is a golden opportunity for MS to really showcase a lot of real next gen games. Unless Sony wanted to get out the "bad news" first and is getting ready to show some demos/trailers of upcoming next gen games this summer but at this point I'm not sure if they have something ready to be revealed. Almost every studio is either just beginning their next project (ND, Sucker Punch, Insomniac, etc) or we already know what they are working on (Guerrilla, Santa Monica, Polyphony, etc) so it really is a mystery what can we expect from their next big event when it comes to fully next gen games.

Based on leaks Xbox doesn’t have anything next gen to show for at least a year or two. The three major games of their E3 are Halo, Forza, and Starfield all of which started their development on Xbox one. Sony has a huge head start considering they’ve released a few next gen only games already.

 

[Handel]

Now might be a good time to take a break from videogames. Or at least we will know after E3.

It's really just the best time to go through your backlog. Even the good-great games releasing now won't reach their full potential until up to a year down the line...just the reality of how much patches and customer feedback can improve games in the modern age.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

I just read my post again. I did not compare the xss to the ps4.

I am comparing the length of time each console will hold back their respective generation. Not each other.

It should be clear to anyone with a brain that the ps4 will hold back next gen far more than the xss. But if you buy the idea of a 4 tflops 7.5 gb console holding back next gen then you must apply that logic all the way till the end of the gen and then the cross gen period of next gen which will take us to 2029 when the ps5, not the ps4 will be holding back next next gen.

That's my point though, the flops and the RAM are not the bottlenecks because they scale really well. Not even the PS4s 1.8 GCN TF are holding anything back imo. What doesn't scale is CPU and I/O. Those are the bottlenecks and Microsoft realized that and made sure that the XSS is very capable in those regards.

 

[DJTaurus]

Jim the corpo

 

[cormack12]

I'm pretty sure we will get a new GoW in the PS5 lifetime, the bigger question is will we get another GT as well? Otherwise we'll be playing a GT game in 2024 that is essentially built for 2013 hardware. We'd be waiting for the PS6 to get a GT that's been built for next gen :/

GT is not the quickest or most timely with iterations as of late. I'm thinking maybe GT:S 2 might be a halfway house?

 

[MatrixReloaded101]

Jim the corpo

He lied to move more PS5’s smh….

I think it’s been a shit show over at MS also but atleast Phil has been honest from day one about everything.

But what Sony did was a new low imo and it’s weird because they didn’t need to say all of those lies to sell the PS5, it would have sold out anyway.

 

[phat_crazy]

Jim the corpo

People and corporations are so full of shit it is unbelievable.

 

[muteZX]

Sadly, after this made-up Q&A, I think this is their strategy. It's going to be a fucking pain in the ass that they will continue making cross gen titles until they announce a PS5 Pro, and then start releasing true exclusives.

new gen starts with PRO not with basic version .. so it is PS4 PRO-PS5 PRO, not PS4-PS5 .. and get ready now that the PS5 will have the same terrible long overlap in the PS6 gen.

 

[Team Andromeda]

The Irony

 

[TonyK]

UE5 demo shows that you can get photorealistic visuals like Hellblade 2. Fable can really go in on destruction, gorgeous cg visuals and dense forest design we didnt see in Horizon. State of Decay and Avowed could really push the envelope. The ball is in Microsoft's court. Sony has essentially taken the Nintendo route and removed themselves from the equation altogether by limiting themselves to last gen. It's time for MS to grab this opportunity and really show us what this 12 tflops console with 16 thread CPU and SSD can do.

But Series X is also cross gen with Series S. In fact, at least Sony can make some games only next gen, and in a couple of years all games will be PS5, but Xbox must be cross gen all the generation with Series S.

 

[UnNamed]

Launching the next gen consoles in 2020 was a mistake.

 

[Low Moral Fibre]

It is strange that by the end of this year I'll only have one, maybe two if Horizon makes it, next gen only games across both consoles. I think I would have still bought at release even just to play stuff like GoT at 60fps but it's definitely been a damp squib so far.

Edit: forgot Horizon is cross gen too! Just Ratchet in over a year!

I wonder if they'll at least change the levels slightly to drop the log/rock lifting and slow climbing etc from GoW. It was a decent way to hide loading screens with a HDD but means the SSD is going to waste.

 

[Coolwhhip]

It does make sense though. The hardcore enthusiasts will buy a PS5 anyway, especially to play these games at the highest settings. Then once it's time for the casual crowd to buy a PS5, the exclusives are coming.

 

[EDMIX]

Launching the next gen consoles in 2020 was a mistake.

I disagree. Looking at the launch line ups, they are more then fine and we need to get the ball rolling. Units need to be moved before the major publishers, 3rd party or otherwise invest in exclusive next gen titles. So even if they launch 2022.....you will just see the same fucking thing.

You'll see them put out cross gen titles and wait until more units are sold before launching the exclusives stuff, but that isn't even relevant to JUST first party, 3rd party does that too. They need a massive install base to justify the development on a next gen only title.

ie BF4 cross gen, BFHardline cross gen, BF1 next gen, BFV next gen.

AC IV cross gen, AC Unity next gen.

etc.

It means when the systems launch, it might be completely irrelevant. You'll just see publishers still launch with cross gen titles. So I think they are smart to go this route, especially after the pandemic and those hardware shortages.

Coolwhhip Agreed. If the game was already in production and its not hurting the PS5 version, I don't really care. Because of how the architecture is on Series XB and PS5, I don't really know if having a PS4 or Series S or XONE version is going to be as bad or hurt those next gen versions as much as many of us thought. Looking at RE5, I think it really depends on the developer and speaking with a developer that is a friend of a friend, they told me having another version doesn't 100% mean its the "base" and would hurt a next gen version.

They could be made by different teams.

The system allows for scalability.

It doesn't stop next gen features like magic.

I never knew any of this btw, we simply saw Halo Infinite looking like trash and (rightly assumed lol) that was based on XONE or Series S etc. Yet...why doesn't RE5 look like trash? Spiderman MM? Maybe it indeed differs from developer to developer and the idea of scalability is something those that work on the new hardware understand that we simply don't as gamers.

Think about it like this folks, we debate often on BF4 being the one of the best BF's to release last gen..... let me remind everyone it was a cross gen title. Does it look lessor next to BFV because it was cross gen? Maybe BFV looks good cause its late in the generation where they had time to learn a lot of things and was always going to look better even if BF4 was made only for the current gen vs cross gen. So maybe Halo's situation is not really a cross gen thing and more so development issue thing.

 

[Negotiator101]

NO! Throw your PS5 is the garbage! There will be no PS5 only games until 2025 going by this thread.

Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. Jim Ryan said "we believe in generations" in response to Microsoft saying they will support X1 for some time after Series consoles release. Sony have released a few next gen only titles and that's great, the problem is they are now saying PS4 will continue to be supported. 3 of their biggest games are confirmed cross generation and its looking like all 3 are releasing beyond 2021.

Phil Spencer is on record saying their developers have the decision of wether to go full next generation or cross generation. So we now have a situation where Microsoft could potentially have more next generation only games in development than Sony! After Ryan said and I quote "we believe in generations". You are blindly supporting Jim "lying" Ryan for some reason and I can't see why?

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I wonder if Sony is simply getting “the bad news out there” early so they don’t waste time dealing with the fallout when they have their E3 type conference

thoughts SlimySnake ?

makes sense to me

 

[Negotiator101]

But Series X is also cross gen with Series S. In fact, at least Sony can make some games only next gen, and in a couple of years all games will be PS5, but Xbox must be cross gen all the generation with Series S.

Stop with the nonsense mate, making yourself look stupid.

 

[muteZX]

It is said in the film industry that film has to earn at least 3 times its budget. It's a reasonable number. You have to tax the profit, transfer something to your own pocket, to the investment, to the purchase of the new, better technology and finally to the budget for the next film.

Cyber 2077 budget was 320 mega / 1.2 billion PLN or roughly $ 316,131,480 USD / .. optimally I need to earn 3 times as much, so a billion. One billion divided by 50 euros per copy is 20,000,000 copies sold alias 20 mega. .. even better NEXT GEN game of this type, better animation, assets, technology and live mocap actors /hi, Keanu/ will increase the budget by 50%.

it will be not be enough to sell 20 mega copies, it wants 30 mega. .. and now the question .. how do you want to sell 30 mega only on PS5 today or tomorrow or in 2 years when it is a 100% absolutely unrealistic idea.

So it doesn't matter that the PS4 will slow down the PS5 for another year or two.

SONY doesn't have the money for super AAA PS5 games with a tiny PS5 user base .. exactly in this moment ..

 

[StreetsofBeige]

So it doesn't matter that the PS4 will slow down the PS5 for another year or two.

SONY doesn't have the money for super AAA PS5 games with a tiny PS5 user base .. exactly in this moment ..

So if that's the case (totally reasonable opinion).

Then why PR to gamer PS5 PS5 PS5 exclusive games when all these games are PS4 after all and console supply is so short you're going to sell out every console anyway? Its not like there's tons of PS5 consoles sitting on shelves needing a spark to get sales.

 

[Team Andromeda]

Launching the next gen consoles in 2020 was a mistake.

I don't see it that much different form how back in the day you had a Master system version and a Mega Drive version of the same game

 

[EDMIX]

So if that's the case (totally reasonable opinion).

Then why PR to gamer PS5 PS5 PS5 exclusive games when all these games are PS4 after all and console supply is so short you're going to sell out every console anyway? Its not like there's tons of PS5 consoles sitting on shelves needing a spark to get sales.

Well because they actually still have PS5 exclusives. Its not "all these games" as they are not doing 100% only cross gen. So I believe the pandemic slowed a lot down for those titles and if they could be cross gen and it doesn't hurt PS5 development in terms of next gen features, ie visuals, 4k, Raytracing, duelsense, ssd speeds etc, I'm all for it.

The only issue I've ever had with cross gen is the belief that it would hurt the next gen version being made from current generation hardware, but many developer cited that isn't really the case and its not like PS5 suddenly can't work if a game started as a PS4 game or something, like it won't run or no features can be added etc.

So we don't really know how many teams they have working on them to have several versions, but I feel based on the pandemic and the fact that they indeed have exclusive titles for PS5, I think it was far game for them to market that with the PR to move units.

Team Andromeda agreed and trust me they won't be saying that same thing when in 2022 because of how many next gen systems exist, we start to see many next gen only titles. Suddenly we want 2020 release to get the numbers up by 2022, but only when we see in 2022 that it was the right call? lol I don't have a PS5 right now and tried like 4 times to get one and just gave up. Will likely try again by the end of the year or spring next year and I personally have no issue with them putting next gen systems out in 2020. Someone need to get the fucking ball rolling and this is how it is during the start of every gen anyway.

 

[Bogroll]

I don't see it that much different form how back in the day you had a Master system version and a Mega Drive version of the same game

You couldn't play Outrun online Megadrive v Master System. Imagine the cut back physics, dynamic weather and vehicle damage etc on GT7.

 

[GymWolf]

Muahahahaah but people told that the jimbo interview where he wasn't sure about exclusivity for ragnarock was not a signal of gow being crossgen, you people are too fucking naive sometimes.

And as usual, FUCK JIMBO.

 

[Team Andromeda]

agreed and trust me they won't be saying that same thing when in 2022 because of how many next gen systems exist, we start to see many next gen only titles. Suddenly we want 2020 release to get the numbers up by 2022, but only when we see in 2022 that it was the right call? lol I don't have a PS5 right now and tried like 4 times to get one and just gave up. Will likely try again by the end of the year or spring next year and I personally have no issue with them putting next gen systems out in 2020. Someone need to get the fucking ball rolling and this is how it is during the start of every gen anyway.

I don't see it that much different from the Master System and Mega Drive era of when you had SEGA making the same game for 2 systems and the lesser system was always horribly comprised while still playable
I wouldn't want to play Streets of Rage 2 on my MS but it was nice that the option was there I guess.

I also tired of people saying this generation is terrible. 6 months into my early Mega Drive, PS2 and Dreamcast days they wasn't much to play and people act like God Of War, GT and the rest were day one titles.
On the PS2 it really took a year into the console life cycle before the likes of ICO and SH2 really should off the system and what it could do, it was like 6 months into the 360 until GRAW and Fight Night 3 could show off what the 360 could do and those were cross gen titles

 

[muteZX]

So if that's the case (totally reasonable opinion).

Then why PR to gamer PS5 PS5 PS5 exclusive games when all these games are PS4 after all and console supply is so short you're going to sell out every console anyway? Its not like there's tons of PS5 consoles sitting on shelves needing a spark to get sales.

propaganda .. strike while the iron is hot .. keep wheels moving .. that shit.

Lies, deception ..

 

[Duchess]

This can only mean that the true PS5 exclusives aren't shifting as many copies as Sony wants.

Or that Sony knows they simply won't be able to output as many PS5s this year as they desire, in turn leading to lower sales.

Maybe?

 

[Coolwhhip]

This can only mean that the true PS5 exclusives aren't shifting as many copies as Sony wants.

Or that Sony knows they simply won't be able to output as many PS5s this year as they desire, in turn leading to lower sales.

Maybe?

These decisions were made years ago though.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

It is said in the film industry that film has to earn at least 3 times its budget. It's a reasonable number. You have to tax the profit, transfer something to your own pocket, to the investment, to the purchase of the new, better technology and finally to the budget for the next film.

Cyber 2077 budget was 320 mega / 1.2 billion PLN or roughly $ 316,131,480 USD / .. optimally I need to earn 3 times as much, so a billion. One billion divided by 50 euros per copy is 20,000,000 copies sold alias 20 mega. .. even better NEXT GEN game of this type, better animation, assets, technology and live mocap actors /hi, Keanu/ will increase the budget by 50%.

it will be not be enough to sell 20 mega copies, it wants 30 mega. .. and now the question .. how do you want to sell 30 mega only on PS5 today or tomorrow or in 2 years when it is a 100% absolutely unrealistic idea.

So it doesn't matter that the PS4 will slow down the PS5 for another year or two.

SONY doesn't have the money for super AAA PS5 games with a tiny PS5 user base .. exactly in this moment ..

Comparing first party games to movies is a bigly stretch tbh. With movies, over half the money is already gone just because you have to pay the distributor and the exhibitor (cinema). With first party console games, you keep 100% of the digital revenue and around 70% of the physical revenue. And since digital vastly outnumbers physical, the average might be around 90%.

 

[SSfox]

Jim the corpo

What a piece of jerk.

 

[muteZX]

Comparing first party games to movies is a bigly stretch tbh. With movies, over half the money is already gone just because you have to pay the distributor and the exhibitor (cinema). With first party console games, you keep 100% of the digital revenue and around 70% of the physical revenue. And since digital vastly outnumbers physical, the average might be around 90%.

sure .. but next GTA will cost over 500 mega /prolly 750 with marketing/ .. if I want native GTA like game for PS5 /not looking back at weak PC, XSS and so on/ .. SONY doesn't have that money, nor user base ..

 

[GymWolf]

Well

Time to put on my fuck playstation pants again

You and me both brotha.

I told you that jimbo was suspect, but you didn't believed me.

 

[Coolwhhip]

What a piece of jerk.

That's what CEOs of big corporations do. They talk BS.

 

[MilkyJoe]

Remember that time I said the pandemic would put a stop to "we believe in generations" ? And you all said I was crazy..

 

[Setsuna Mudou]

What an absolute shit decision. Fucking kill last gen with fire already!

 

[SkylineRKR]

I don't see it that much different from the Master System and Mega Drive era of when you had SEGA making the same game for 2 systems and the lesser system was always horribly comprised while still playable
I wouldn't want to play Streets of Rage 2 on my MS but it was nice that the option was there I guess.

I also tired of people saying this generation is terrible. 6 months into my early Mega Drive, PS2 and Dreamcast days they wasn't much to play and people act like God Of War, GT and the rest were day one titles.
On the PS2 it really took a year into the console life cycle before the likes of ICO and SH2 really should off the system and what it could do, it was like 6 months into the 360 until GRAW and Fight Night 3 could show off what the 360 could do and those were cross gen titles

Yeah but Gears, PGR3, Dead Rising, Oblivion and Lost Planet weren't. And there were more ofcourse. Also, GRAW on last-gen was a completely different game (wasn't it FP on Ps2?). FN3 wasn't really comparable either and Double Agent was a different entity. Its not like these announced games on PS4 and PS5 being the exact same game, as another poster said, they also have to connect online nowadays. GT7 likely supports crossplay between versions.

 

[GymWolf]

Sneaky Sony strikes again. Good to see that even the SonyGaf stalwarts are unloading on ”We Believe in Generations” Jim Ryan and Sony with both barrels. There IS a limit to militant fanboyism it would seem.

People ridicule Phil Spencer a ton but I’d rather have him at the head of a gaming division any day of the week.

And this news officially puts on indefinite hold any desire I had to try and track down a PS5 which would be my first Sony console.

You need to read the topic a bit better, a lot of sony apologist in here excusing this utter bullcrap.

I guess people doesn't understand that graphic is only one thing, but scope, physics, ia, level design and so many things are gonna get botched to make the game running on a ps4, people who talk about pc probably forget that even pc has minimum requisites to run games and that in the last 2-3 gens the games were developed around shitty hardware console so they can run even on super shitty pc.

 

[Team Andromeda]

Yeah but Gears, PGR3, Dead Rising and Lost Planet weren't. And there were more ofcourse. Also, GRAW on last-gen was a completely different game (wasn't it FP on Ps2?). Its not like these announced games on PS4 and PS5. Sometimes it backfired, like Double Agent which was arguably worse on 360.

But you're not being fair. Lost Planet, Dead Rising or Gears did not come on the 360, 7 months into the consoles life.
PGR3 was nice but that really was it until GRAW and Fight Night 3 really showed off the system and that's we can't escape the affect Covid has had on games development either

 

[SSfox]

That's what CEOs of big corporations do. They talk BS.

You must've never heard of Layden, House, Tretton, or Kutaragi.

 

[SkylineRKR]

But you're not being fair. Lost Planet, Dead Rising or Gears did not come on the 360, 7 months into the consoles life.
PGR3 was nice but that really was it until GRAW and Fight Night 3 really showed off the system and that's we can't escape the affect Covid has had on games development either

There were much more. But PS5 won't get more than Rift Apart for the remainder of the year, and sometime next year it seems. And don't be surprised if that games also gets some sort of a PS4 version.

Ideally, these systems would have to be pushed back. The pandemic, logistics, semiconductors shortage aren't ideal. We knew almost a full year before these systems arrived it would be a shithole. Something should've been possible I think.

 

[DiscoDave]

Yea this is disappointing. Gran turismo I want to play more than the new GOW but I feel gran turismo is OK for cross gen. But GOW I would loved to of seen in all its glory without last gen holding it back, and it will in some ways.

 

[Team Andromeda]

There were much more. But PS5 won't get more than Rift Apart for the remainder of the year, and sometime next year it seems. And don't be surprised if that games also gets some sort of a PS4 version.

Ideally, these systems would have to be pushed back. The pandemic, logistics, semiconductors shortage aren't ideal. We knew almost a full year before these systems arrived it would be a shithole. Something should've been possible I think.

When I imported my PS2 from Japan it took until ICO launched a year later until I saw graphics that actually showed off the system. For my 360 it took until March where I saw what the system could really do with the launch of Fight Night 3 and GRAW
For the Dreamcast again it took until March when I had House of the Dead 2 and Blue Stinger and really got to see what the system could do. I didn't import the PS at launch, but other than RR and the odd game here and there it took until the US and Pal launch some 9 months later before I was really impressed, much the same for the Saturn and where in March I was blown away by Panzer.

 

[Shodan09]

This.

There it is.

The attitudes of some posters here are pretty hilarious after the whole "we believe in generations" debacle.

 

[hemo memo]

Can’t wait to see how the games will perform and if we have another TLG on base consoles shit type of performance.