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[ReBurn]

It's a small sample size so far in terms of sales but over the next year a trend will start to emerge.

If the majority sentiment that exists here also applies to the general populous of gamepass subscribers then the results won't end up being any different to what we have with this game:

Game Pass users: Do you buy the games afterwards to support the devs?

I bought Halo MCC on Steam despite having it on Game Pass because i want to have it on Steam and give extra support for bringing one of my favorite franchises to PC. Also thinking of doing the same with Gears 5 since Steam has it on sale now. Have you bought any games from Game Pass since...

www.neogaf.com

I can't imagine anyone thinking a gaf poll is accurate in the slightest.

 

[dcmk7]

NF has about 200 million users. Of course no gaming sub will reach that. BUt for NF to make profit for years, they didn't need 200 million.

They even made money early on. Wiki.

2003

On June 14, 2002, the company sold an additional 825,000 shares of common stock at the same price. After incurring substantial losses during its first few years, Netflix posted its first profit during the fiscal year 2003, earning US$6.5 million profit on revenues of US$272 million.

Netflix Revenue and Net Income by Year: FY 1998 to 2019 - Dazeinfo

The graph represents Netflix Revenue and Net Income by year, starting from fiscal 1998 to the recent year. Netflix annual revenue and net profit in 2019

dazeinfo.com

They've made profit every year since 2003. In the linked chart you can see the actual numbers as the profits in early years was low it doesn't show up in red bars.

I said they had to borrow $15 billion to invest in content, which they haven't paid back yet.. not that they didn't make money.

As said before it's like comparing apples to oranges.

It's a completely different market with significantly greater numbers.

 

[clintar]

Yeah I'm sorry, but who cares?


If anything this shows that 17% of Xbox players are fucking morons.

You mean at least 17%? What about digital? Don't discount that there could be even more Xbox morons. /s
Seriously, that would just mean 17% of the people that bought the game between either console were Xbox morons.

 

[jroc74]

You mean one is so used to renting that one becomes ignorant and states false things?

Yeah, after seeing so many still claim its $70 does 2 things:

Tells me what's really on their mind....and its not the topic we are discussing. So lmao at ppl talking about folks being salty...when you have some that arent even focusing on the topic.
They dont wanna discuss this with factual data, so its a waste to even bother.

I'm still amazed that someone claims Game Pass increases Playstation sales. All it does it changes the percentage, because what Game Pass actually did was cause less sales on Xbox.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Yeah, after seeing so many still claim its $70 does 2 things:

Tells me what's really on their mind....and its not the topic we are discussing. So lmao at ppl talking about folks being salty...when you have some that arent even focusing on the topic.
They dont wanna discuss this with factual data, so its a waste to even bother.

I'm still amazed that someone claims Game Pass increases Playstation sales. All it does it changes the percentage, because what Game Pass actually did was cause less sales on Xbox.

No doubt it caused less sales skewing the pie chart. Some people out there are just bad at math. Or are clever enough to know that but troll bad math trying to convince others.

SE still gets paid with a GP contract with MS. We just don't know what's in the contract. But they get paid a different way than traditional copies sold in retail sales charts.

 

[Jaysen]

Yeah, after seeing so many still claim its $70 does 2 things:

Tells me what's really on their mind....and its not the topic we are discussing. So lmao at ppl talking about folks being salty...when you have some that arent even focusing on the topic.
They dont wanna discuss this with factual data, so its a waste to even bother.

I'm still amazed that someone claims Game Pass increases Playstation sales. All it does it changes the percentage, because what Game Pass actually did was cause less sales on Xbox.

No shit. What idiot thought it would cause more sales?

 

[Gamerguy84]

No shit. What idiot thought it would

Link busted

Phil spencer is the guy who claimed gamepass creates more sales.

Nobody believed. Why buy when you can get it free.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

No shit. What idiot thought it would cause more sales?

Read some of the posts on page 5 about gap %.

 

[Jaysen]

Link busted

Phil spencer is the guy who claimed gamepass creates more sales.

Nobody believed. Why buy when you can get it free.

No one with a brain thought he meant day 1 sales.

 

[Gamerguy84]

No one with a brain thought he meant day 1 sales.

Day 1, day 1000, he didn't clarify. Least not the article I read.

 

[dcmk7]

No one with a brain thought he meant day 1 sales.

I guess you might need to get yours checked.

He did mean day one.

"Some people have questioned that, but when State of Decay 2 launched, you saw if you looked in the US at the NPD you saw this game selling really well the month it launched on GamePass."

 

[GHG]

No one with a brain thought he meant day 1 sales.

How do you interpret this then? :

When you put a game like Forza Horizon 4 on Game Pass, you instantly have more players of the game, which is actually leading to more sales of the game," he said. "Some people have questioned that, but when State of Decay 2 launched, you saw if you looked in the US at the NPD you saw this game selling really well the month it launched on GamePass.

Phil Spencer: Game Pass leads to more game sales

This past weekend's X018 event was, arguably, a two-hour long advertisement for Game Pass, and given what Microsoft gam…

www.gamesindustry.biz

State of Decay 2 was available day 1 on gamepass.

 

[Ozzie666]

So as a third party game, this game will eventually leave Gamepass. I would expect it will be completely dead or at least irrelevant when it does. So people will have to buy it cheap, if they want to keep playing.

Is the game cross progression and cross play? Gamepass is a good way to pump up the user base with players for PC and PS.

 

[Calverz]

 

[StreetsofBeige]

So as a third party game, this game will eventually leave Gamepass. I would expect it will be completely dead or at least irrelevant when it does. So people will have to buy it cheap, if they want to keep playing.

Is the game cross progression and cross play? Gamepass is a good way to pump up the user base with players for PC and PS.

Fully cross play across PC/Xbox/PS. But googling it, no cross progression.

OUTRIDERS COMPLETE EDITION | SQUARE ENIX

Be unstoppable in this 1-3 player co-op looter shooter with 4 unique classes and a customisable arsenal of brutal powers, skills, gear and weapons.

outriders.square-enix-games.com

Will Outriders support Cross-Play?

Yes. Outriders will Fully support cross-play, meaning you will be able to explore Enoch with any of your friends on any other platform. You can play Outriders from start to finish with your friends regardless of what system they own.

 

[Stuart360]

Link busted

Phil spencer is the guy who claimed gamepass creates more sales.

Nobody believed. Why buy when you can get it free.

Its going to be different from game to game, and no one is suggesting Gamepass users are also buying games (except the ones taking advantage of the 20% discount you get with Gmaepass), its more about word of mouth from people playing a game they probably wouldnt of bought, but tried said game becaue it was on Gamepass.

Here are what a dev said -

Rose said the following to GamesIndustry in a recent interview.


Sounded like b*******, right? Weirdly, it's true. It surprised me. Being on Xbox Game Pass means that you basically have constant featuring on Xbox. Your game is on the dashboard all the time... People are seeing our game every day. And because of that, during launch month, our Xbox sales — we didn't do any discounts on it or anything — quadrupled, and have now settled to about three times as much as before. It's essentially an advert; a straight-up advert. And now Xbox is asking, 'Oh, can we feature Descenders in more of the Xbox Game Pass advertising?' Yes, you can. Of course you f****** can.

Xbox Game Pass 'quadrupled' Descenders sales says developer Mike Rose

That was unexpected.

www.windowscentral.com

Other Indie devs had said the same too.

I mean i made this post about a situation that probably comes up a lot with the more casual console crowd -

Its not really hard to see why games being on Gamepass could help sales on other platfroms.

Take someone with Gamepass 'oh this Outriders game, yeah i heard about this, lets download it', he plays and likes the game, 'hey jimmy bud, just played this awesome game called Outriders, yuo can even play through it co-op. I think you would love it. Buy it on PS4/5 so we can play together!'

Its probably exaggerrated how much effect this would have, but its pretty obvious this will be going on. You have to remember the majority of gamers are not spending half their lives on forums and game news sites, and no every little thing about every game.

No ones saying a game being on Gamepass is going to generate millions of extra sales, but you are definately going to get people playing games they wouldnt normally play, and spread wom from it.
I mean i bought 'Carrion' because people had been saying how good it was on Gamepass.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

This is a weird comparison. You just wanted to compare GamePass to something which is successful right? To validate it.. I get it.

Difference being Netflix adds about 30-40 million subscribers a year. And it's a completely different media with difference audience too.

Also had to borrow $15 billion to finance content which hasn't paid back yet.

Aside from that.. do you really think that gaming numbers exceed the number of people who just want to sit and watch a TV show occasionally?

Nope.

The problem many people have is they fail to understand Microsoft is literally, right before your very eyes, inventing a new business model for videogames. Simply because it might not seem like it makes sense for many, this doesn't mean it won't be highly successful and sustainable for the long term. The $15 billion you reference (not sure how true this is, but will go ahead with your number and assume its true along with the fact that it hasn't paid back yet) could just as easily be backed by Xbox's parent company Microsoft. If the business model has risks, Microsoft would seem to be the perfect company to help provide a powerful financial lifeline to help it get to where it needs to be where it can become as powerful in gaming as Netflix is in streaming television shows and movies. The time they needed to be bought was the Xbox One generation. The perfect storm that's needed to truly realize the full potential of what Xbox Game Pass can be is Bethesda releases that are now first party and will end up being exclusives to Xbox and PC, and a very impressive looking set of big releases coming from Xbox Game Studios.

You typically see one major fallout singleplayer game and one major elder scrolls single player game per generation if you're lucky. Xbox is poised and positioned to potentially see 2 of each backed up by Halo Infinite, Perfect Dark, Fable, Everwild, Hellbade, Doom, Ghostwire, Deathloop, Dishonored, Wolfenstein etc.

Avowed screams an Elder Scrolls like title.
Elder Scrolls 6 from Bethesda is likely coming this generation.
Starfield is presumably Fallout in space.
And we could potentially get a more ambitious Outer Worlds sequel this generation.

One of the concerns about Netflix like services are that things will leave the service. Every single game we know about and expect that's coming from Xbox Game Studios and Bethesda the day they release on Xbox Series consoles will also be day one releases on Game Pass and will be there permanently. The thing about Game Pass is that games and gamers are different from tv shows and movies and the people who consume them. Games and gamers actually make Xbox Game Pass an even more likely success than Netflix was. How? Simple. More big games. Xbox Game Studios and Bethesda together are going to deliver this. And with each moment that those games drop day one on game pass and stay on game pass, game pass will become that much more powerful, that much harder for third party publishers to ignore because they will want in on some of that excitement. More money will be generated because many more users will join, and that will directly lead to even more financial flexibility for Xbox to pull the trigger on cutting some big deals. With Xbox Game Pass the Xbox division need not go ask corporate for some money to wheel and deal as often as they might have needed to before. Xbox Game Pass gives them a resource they have never had before, not even with Xbox Live. There was no desire from third party publishers to drop big releases onto xbox live for free before, at least nowhere near like what's transpiring now with Game Pass.

Game Pass has created a new exciting opportunity that third party publishers and a lot of development studios want to go test, where they see opportunity to get a better return from their game than sticking to the standard physical and digital sale business model that has become so common. Microsoft has created a third option - a subscription service deal that leads to many more people trying and playing their game while still being able to sell their game the old fashioned way. Square Enix has already succeeded in making many, many more people interested in playing Outriders than would have otherwise cared to give it a go. I'm giving this game a go and I had no damn interest in it the entire time. I was on a total Bethesda kick where I was replaying Skyrim and then planned to give Fallout 4 another spin, then eventually go to Prey, then Fallout 76 and Elder Scrolls Online. Game Pass got me to put a pause on that and take Outriders for a spin. I'm almost certain Square Enix likes what they see. People are overloading those servers to go play this game.

 

[Silent Viper]

Stupid article. SE already got paid upfront. Game just came out and Most people playing on GP. Once its out of GP, people might start buying through GP discount

 

[Silent Viper]

Shouldn’t gamepass be bolstering sales? According to lying Phil anyways.

There's no lying. Many indie devs said their games sold more and got more players with GP. Not all but some games did get benefit with GP. He not lying.

Here

"For Descenders, it has been immense. Sales across all platforms increased after we went into Game Pass" – What does Game Pass mean for indies? - MCV/DEVELOP

With Microsoft making aggressive, headline-grabbing moves with its subscription service, we find out what Game Pass’ recent developments mean for smaller creators

www.google.com

And too early to judge how outriders will benefit from GP. Game just came out. After it leaves, people might buy at discount to continue playing.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

How much were devs paid to put it on gamepass? That will decide if game was a sales/revenue success or not.

I am sure they wouldnt have done it for free.

Sales figures are meaningless when gamepass exists.

 

[Aceofspades]

Whats the news here? We know Playstation will crush Xbox, been happening since 2001

 

[dcmk7]

Its going to be different from game to game, and no one is suggesting Gamepass users are also buying games (except the ones taking advantage of the 20% discount you get with Gmaepass), its more about word of mouth from people playing a game they probably wouldnt of bought, but tried said game becaue it was on Gamepass.

Here are what a dev said -

Xbox Game Pass 'quadrupled' Descenders sales says developer Mike Rose

That was unexpected.

www.windowscentral.com

Other Indie devs had said the same too.

I mean i made this post about a situation that probably comes up a lot with the more casual console crowd -

No ones saying a game being on Gamepass is going to generate millions of extra sales, but you are definately going to get people playing games they wouldnt normally play, and spread wom from it.
I mean i bought 'Carrion' because people had been saying how good it was on Gamepass.

I think the Descenders quote might be a bit misleading, I could be very wrong however.

From what I understand that title was first available to buy in Game Preview (where games might never get finished) before it went into GamePass.

So was not actually released for sale in traditional sense before it made it's GamePass appearance.

Can imagine they weren't getting big numbers when in Game Preview.

So when hear quadrupled it's instantly sounds impressive but if the original number was say 1000, it loses significance.

 

[Gamerguy84]

Its going to be different from game to game, and no one is suggesting Gamepass users are also buying games (except the ones taking advantage of the 20% discount you get with Gmaepass), its more about word of mouth from people playing a game they probably wouldnt of bought, but tried said game becaue it was on Gamepass.

Here are what a dev said -

Xbox Game Pass 'quadrupled' Descenders sales says developer Mike Rose

That was unexpected.

www.windowscentral.com

Other Indie devs had said the same too.

I mean i made this post about a situation that probably comes up a lot with the more casual console crowd -

No ones saying a game being on Gamepass is going to generate millions of extra sales, but you are definately going to get people playing games they wouldnt normally play, and spread wom from it.
I mean i bought 'Carrion' because people had been saying how good it was on Gamepass.

OK but I was just answering the guys question.

I'm sure GP will generate some sales for underexposed games.

 

[Stuart360]

I think the Descenders quote might be a bit misleading, I could be very wrong however.

From what I understand that title was first available to buy in Game Preview (where games might never get finished) before it went into GamePass.

So was not actually released for sale in traditional sense before it made it's GamePass appearance.

Can imagine they weren't getting big numbers when in Game Preview.

So when hear quadrupled it's instantly sounds impressive but if the original number was say 1000, it loses significance.

Oh for sure. Its possible that the game was in Preview as i'm pretty sure it was in Early Access on Steam. The game did sell very well on Steam though too. I think when people hear 'Indie' ,they think a game that will only sell a few hundred, or a few thousand, but some Indie games are huge.
Plus other devs have said the same too.

But like i said, just the nature of Gamepass means there are going to be a lot of people trying a game they wouldnt normally try if they had to buy it, and if they like that game, it could spread good wom to firends, family, online friends, etc.

 

[Jaysen]

How do you interpret this then? :

When you put a game like Forza Horizon 4 on Game Pass, you instantly have more players of the game, which is actually leading to more sales of the game," he said. "Some people have questioned that, but when State of Decay 2 launched, you saw if you looked in the US at the NPD you saw this game selling really well the month it launched on GamePass.

Phil Spencer: Game Pass leads to more game sales

This past weekend's X018 event was, arguably, a two-hour long advertisement for Game Pass, and given what Microsoft gam…

www.gamesindustry.biz

State of Decay 2 was available day 1 on gamepass.

He’s saying despite being in game pass the game still sold well. He’s also saying people who pay for game pass are more likely to spend more money than people who don’t. How the hell is this so hard for people to comprehend? Are you that afraid of GP being successful?

 

[Heisenberg007]

Let's put the console warring and Gamepass is good/bad aside for a second ... These numbers do tell us an interesting story.

• On PlayStation: Developers are getting money from PlayStation gamers (not Sony). This looks bad for PS gamers, at least in the short term.
• On Xbox: Developers are getting money from Xbox (not Xbox gamers). This is good for Xbox gamers, at least in the short term.

As games grow bigger (or just current AAA games with high production), developers will expect to sell more copies and earn higher revenues. This means that Xbox will have to pay them more money upfront to get these games on Gamepass. Sony won't have such a problem. So it is definitely more sustainable for Sony. For Xbox, it all comes down to how many paying, active GP subscribers they have amassed.

I just wish Xbox revealed GP revenue, # of $15 p/m paying subscribers, how much did they pay for some AA / AAA / Day 1 launch games to get on GP, and the overall ROI of GP. This would end the debate.

 

[Bittermich]

But Phil told me GamePass leads to more game sales not less.

Sure our guy Phil can't be lying!

not boxed sales. Digital sales. Subscribers even get a 10% discount when buying the game.

 

[Silent Viper]

Congrats to PS gamers for paying 60$ for the game for a retail copy. You guys won. Xbox lost as Xbox gamers playing for free.

 

[93xfan]

The previous narrative was that it leads to increased sales due to the increased exposure but the reality is very different.

Like you said, why would someone buy the game when it's available day one on the service? I've been laughed at when I've previously stated I would buy games that released day one on gamepass after trying them out and liking them. I was told the developers have already been paid so I don't need to buy it. Apparently also buying games is against the gamepass code of conduct.

I’m sure it does for some games... OVER TIME.

Just as you’ll realize how silly your post is... OVER TIME. We can at least hope for you, right?

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I just wish Xbox revealed GP revenue, # of $15 p/m paying subscribers, how much did they pay for some AA / AAA / Day 1 launch games to get on GP, and the overall ROI of GP. This would end the debate.

You seem to care more about whether MS makes money or not on GP as opposed to being a gamer and getting good value for your dollar.

I wonder if you criticize Sony with the same degree for never publicly stating how much profit PS Now makes or loses or what their ROI is. And that service has been around since 2014. And they've still never divulged it.

 

[turtlepowa]

So at the end of this gen PS players end up paying hundreds or more likely thousands of bucks more than Xbox players? No wonder that they are so "concerned" about Game Pass lately.

 

[dcmk7]

He’s saying despite being in game pass the game still sold well. He’s also saying people who pay for game pass are more likely to spend more money than people who don’t. How the hell is this so hard for people to comprehend? Are you that afraid of GP being successful?

"When you put a game like Forza Horizon 4 on Game Pass, you instantly have more players of the game, which is actually leading to more sales of the game," he said. "Some people have questioned that, but when State of Decay 2 launched, you saw if you looked in the US at the NPD you saw this game selling really well the month it launched on GamePass.

This couldn't be any clearer. I don't know how you can misinterpret this or maybe just trying move the goalposts but it's clear that Phil is talking about launch sales.

 

[Dr Bass]

So at the end of this gen PS players end up paying hundreds or more likely thousands of bucks more than Xbox players? No wonder that they are so "concerned" about Game Pass lately.

Don’t you see how that’s bad for developers? You’re literally arguing the point of people who say Game Pass will be a bad thing for the industry over time.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Don’t you see how that’s bad for developers? You’re literally arguing the point of people who say Game Pass will be a bad thing for the industry over time.

How is it bad for devs, if they agree to a deal for a partnership pay out?

If devs don't like it, then dont do GP and sell the game for $60 like every other game.

 

[Stuart360]

Don’t you see how that’s bad for developers? You’re literally arguing the point of people who say Game Pass will be a bad thing for the industry over time.

Why do people act like devs are forced to put games on Gmaepass free of charge, and at gunpoint?. They get offered money, gauranteed money by the way compared to potential money, and they accept it or not.

 

[turtlepowa]

Don’t you see how that’s bad for developers? You’re literally arguing the point of people who say Game Pass will be a bad thing for the industry over time.

How is this bad? They get money from Microsoft, their games become more popular, they will sell DLC/item Shop stuff and some Game Pass users buy it anyways. You know nobody is forced to put their games an Game Pass right? They do it, because they have advanatages doing so.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Why do people act like devs are forced to put games on Gmaepass free of charge, and at gunpoint?. They get offered money, gauranteed money by the way compared to potential money, and they accept it or not.

Exactly.

It's why COD, FIFA, R* games never come to GP or right away. EA releases their games to EA Play a year later, Activision has never put COD on GP ever, and R* releases some of their key hits years later. I think they even pulled GTA5, so they don't even bother leaving an old game there forever.

Some games sell so much, no point doing GP till later (or never).

But if some devs dont want security of partnership money and instead roll the dice on hitting the jackpot or rolling snake eyes, then avoid GP and sell the game for $60 and hope it sells millions and never look at GP ever.

 

[Imru’ al-Qays]

I have no idea what this game even is

 

[Elginer]

Bought it on PS5 but got it free on Gamepass to play with my Xbros so thanks Uncle Phil. The devs just need to fix the terrible issues. Game is fun even with the jank.
Gamepass keeps getting better and that’s a good thing. MS is investing in their services and I’m reaping the benefits as it should be.
Sony just needs to start announcing some awesome exclusives soon or start showing a hell of a lot more.
That said, Rachet and Clank looks amazing as does Returnal.

 

[Handel]

Besides the devs already getting paid to put the game on GamePass, the positive effect that a game being on GamePass is going to have on it being bought outright isn't going to be immediate, that should be obvious to anyone with a brain.

The process goes : game is on GamePass --> player tries the game and finds they like it --> player buys game to continue playing game after it is gone from service/to support the dev/so that they can play it without needing GPU

Beyond that element, the game being on GamePass gives it more exposure and word of mouth in general, leading to greater sales even on other platforms, even if only from salty Sony fanboys trying to prove how good PS is for developers and buying the game to "spite" GamePass/Xbox players.

 

[Dr Bass]

How is this bad? They get money from Microsoft, their games become more popular, they will sell DLC/item Shop stuff and some Game Pass users buy it anyways. You know nobody is forced to put their games an Game Pass right? They do it, because they have advanatages doing so.

Man ... it is simple math. You are celebrating MS subsidizing your habit, which makes it an overall money losing business/prospect. You’re looking at it PURELY from the consumer angle. It’s FINE for consumers if MS is willing to keep shoveling money at publishers as gamers put less money into the pot because they are suddenly getting everything for “free”. I’m looking at it from a shareholder perspective (which I happen to be, as well as someone who plays games) which basically looks like MS incentivizing people to not spend money supporting the business/craft whatever you want to call it.

It’s literally Microsoft’s last ditch effort to do something with Xbox because they haven’t been winning on content. I know, 23 studios etc. Let’s see how well they manage that. Rare and 323 don’t instill confidence. But for ALL those games they now have to fund, including their 7.5 billion purchase of Zenimax, instead of gamers having to pay for it, it’s magically going to work out at 10 bucks a month IF people stay on paying full price? How many Xbox gamers are there? They won’t get 100% join rate either. The pie for this just isn’t that big unless they also think they can get a healthy chunk of mobile gamers via Xcloud.

Again. So many people looking at this from the perspective of “me, me , me.” Of course most gamers will want to pay way less. Of course publishers will take fat offers. Microsoft has already stated recently GP doesn’t make them money. Soooo .....

MS now has a huge list of responsibilities on its balance sheet. It has to pay for all those studios, continuously, to keep them alive. They also need to hope the talent doesn’t leave to go do something different.

Something will have to give somewhere. Content quality. Pricing. It’s going to happen. You can’t put less money into an ecosystem (as someone I quoted above plainly stated would happen in defense of Game Pass) and have it get healthier over time.

 

[turtlepowa]

Man ... it is simple math. You are celebrating MS subsidizing your habit, which makes it an overall money losing business/prospect. You’re looking at it PURELY from the consumer angle. It’s FINE for consumers if MS is willing to keep shoveling money at publishers as gamers put less money into the pot because they are suddenly getting everything for “free”. I’m looking at it from a shareholder perspective (which I happen to be, as well as someone who plays games) which basically looks like MS incentivizing people to not spend money supporting the business/craft whatever you want to call it.

It’s literally Microsoft’s last ditch effort to do something with Xbox because they haven’t been winning on content. I know, 23 studios etc. Let’s see how well they manage that. Rare and 323 don’t instill confidence. But for ALL those games they now have to fund, including their 7.5 billion purchase of Zenimax, instead of gamers having to pay for it, it’s magically going to work out at 10 bucks a month IF people stay on paying full price? How many Xbox gamers are there? They won’t get 100% join rate either. The pie for this just isn’t that big unless they also think they can get a healthy chunk of mobile gamers via Xcloud.

Again. So many people looking at this from the perspective of “me, me , me.” Of course most gamers will want to pay way less. Of course publishers will take fat offers. Microsoft has already stated recently GP doesn’t make them money. Soooo .....

MD now has a huge list of responsibilities on its balance sheet. It has to pay for all those studios, continuously, to keep them alive. They also need to hope the talent doesn’t leave to go do something different.

Something will have to give somewhere. Content quality. Pricing. It’s going to happen. You can’t put less money into an ecosystem (as someone I quoted above plainly stated would happen in defense of Game Pass) and have it get healthier over time.

Thank you for your concern

 

[Dr Bass]

Thank you for your concern

That’s what I thought.

 

[Heisenberg007]

You seem to care more about whether MS makes money or not on GP as opposed to being a gamer and getting good value for your dollar.

I wonder if you criticize Sony with the same degree for never publicly stating how much profit PS Now makes or loses or what their ROI is. And that service has been around since 2014. And they've still never divulged it.

I wonder how you deduced that I'm criticizing MS?

And yes, I do care about how much money gaming companies are making. One, because it's super interesting to me from an academic POV. And second, because I'm not a short-sighted person. With strong financials and net operating profit come long-term support. Look at Stadia. Anyone who created their library and invested their time in Stadia would likely lose it. I don't want that to happen for either MS or Sony.

 

[dcmk7]

That’s what I thought.

Yep. Wouldn't worry about him. He's just a troll, he usually lives in PlayStation threads.

 

[Heisenberg007]

You seem to care more about whether MS makes money or not on GP as opposed to being a gamer and getting good value for your dollar.

I wonder if you criticize Sony with the same degree for never publicly stating how much profit PS Now makes or loses or what their ROI is. And that service has been around since 2014. And they've still never divulged it.

And I know PS Now isn't profitable for Sony. But nobody is worried about that / or talks about that because Sony's entire business model isn't dependant on that. If a day comes when Sony is releasing all its games day 1 on PS Now and has put all the eggs in that basket, I'm sure everyone will be concerned about its profitability and long-term sustainability as well. I'll be at the forefront.

Sony's current model is selling hardware and retail software. Imagine if Sony stops publishing HW and SW numbers, amidst rising game development costs? People would be concerned (rightfully so) and will talk about it.

No need to take sides here, honestly.

 

[Stuart360]

Man ... it is simple math. You are celebrating MS subsidizing your habit, which makes it an overall money losing business/prospect. You’re looking at it PURELY from the consumer angle. It’s FINE for consumers if MS is willing to keep shoveling money at publishers as gamers put less money into the pot because they are suddenly getting everything for “free”. I’m looking at it from a shareholder perspective (which I happen to be, as well as someone who plays games) which basically looks like MS incentivizing people to not spend money supporting the business/craft whatever you want to call it.

It’s literally Microsoft’s last ditch effort to do something with Xbox because they haven’t been winning on content. I know, 23 studios etc. Let’s see how well they manage that. Rare and 323 don’t instill confidence. But for ALL those games they now have to fund, including their 7.5 billion purchase of Zenimax, instead of gamers having to pay for it, it’s magically going to work out at 10 bucks a month IF people stay on paying full price? How many Xbox gamers are there? They won’t get 100% join rate either. The pie for this just isn’t that big unless they also think they can get a healthy chunk of mobile gamers via Xcloud.

Again. So many people looking at this from the perspective of “me, me , me.” Of course most gamers will want to pay way less. Of course publishers will take fat offers. Microsoft has already stated recently GP doesn’t make them money. Soooo .....

MS now has a huge list of responsibilities on its balance sheet. It has to pay for all those studios, continuously, to keep them alive. They also need to hope the talent doesn’t leave to go do something different.

Something will have to give somewhere. Content quality. Pricing. It’s going to happen. You can’t put less money into an ecosystem (as someone I quoted above plainly stated would happen in defense of Game Pass) and have it get healthier over time.

Well as you said your self, they will have Xcloud on mobile, and i cant imagine how much money they could POTENTIALLY make from mobile, when you look at the amount of money mobile gamers spend. In fact i wouldnt be surprised if the mobile market ends up covering the expense of Gamepass on its own.
And of course we have the PC market, where the Xbox games sold on Steam have done very very well. Xbox isnt just the console anymore, its PC, and soon, mobile too.
As the saying goes, you have to speculate to accumilate, just like Netflix had to do for years. I'm sure eventually the price of Gamepass will go up, in fact its gauranteed to, but i'm sure the feeling is that at that point the people who keep subscribing will be enough compared to the people that ditch it.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I wonder how you deduced that I'm criticizing MS?

And yes, I do care about how much money gaming companies are making. One, because it's super interesting to me from an academic POV. And second, because I'm not a short-sighted person. With strong financials and net operating profit come long-term support. Look at Stadia. Anyone who created their library and invested their time in Stadia would likely lose it. I don't want that to happen for either MS or Sony.

MS has supported the Xbox brand with tons of studios bought (including Zenimax for $7.5 b), new systems, lots of focus on preserving BC and boosts, lots of GP games, and the company makes $50 billion profit.

Why would you assume something like GP would sink the ship?

Stadia is a totally different situation because it seems Google gave up on it. Even their launch and marketing was barely noticed. So they never had a focus on it even though Google makes tons of money.

You claim you care about sub plans for Sony and MS, yet have never said anything about PS Now.

 

[Kerotan]

Haters gona hate lol.. I'm enjoying it playing on gamepass on sony platform you're forced to buy it so you guys want a fucking cookie or something with the daily bashing gamepass threads.

I'd rather buy a game then rent it.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

And I know PS Now isn't profitable for Sony. But nobody is worried about that / or talks about that because Sony's entire business model isn't dependant on that. If a day comes when Sony is releasing all its games day 1 on PS Now and has put all the eggs in that basket, I'm sure everyone will be concerned about its profitability and long-term sustainability as well. I'll be at the forefront.

Sony's current model is selling hardware and retail software. Imagine if Sony stops publishing HW and SW numbers, amidst rising game development costs? People would be concerned (rightfully so) and will talk about it.

No need to take sides here, honestly.

Sony didn't divulge PS3 numbers either during those dark days when they had to combine sales into a "Sony Family". They lost so much money back then, yet they didn't seem to care and kept going. And PS4 was a giant success. If Sony (a much smaller company) can weather the storm back then when the company was losing money overall with a terrible TV division losing even more, I'm sure MS can hold the line in modern day.