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[sainraja]

Yep, I assume (and hope) that when these games are leaving the service people who actually enjoy them buy them using the discount you mentioned.

As for the other avenues to make money when a game is on the service... DLC (provided it's high quality) I don't have a problem with, but developers/publishers throwing games on the service in the hope of making money via MTX or whatever this generations version of lootboxes will be? That's a slippery slope that I hope we never have to go down and try and come back from.



Why would I buy a game that's part of a subscription service? Because I want it to have permanence in my library like I do with all of the games I like. Why is that a problem?

Why do people still buy DVD's when Netflix exists?

I sometimes wonder if this is actually an enthusiast forum or whether it's just full of casual bums who will mindlessly jump to the next mega hyped title regardless of it's quality.

If services like game pass become the norm (we shouldn't forget Apple Arcade which is pretty much the same thing), they could change how we currently see game ownership or game ownership might even get redefined. People are already getting use to the idea of having access to a set of games (how big of an influence that will have, will become clear as this generation continues.)

Based on what people who game only on the Xbox are saying, they are completely fine with it. So we're going to see a clear divide between people who like to own their collection vs people who just want to play and don't necessarily need to own it. If Sony does not pivot or more accurately change focus (we know they have downloads on PS now), that will be the key difference between the two systems.

How? Why would you want the game twice?

You're not claiming the games on game pass to own or associate with your account. There are some titles that will stay on the service but there are going to be many that rotate or might not return at all after showing their once.

 

[sainraja]

Holy shit the meltdown by some playstation fans is actually laughable, albeit a bit sad.

Why the fuck would anyone buy it on Xbox if it's on GamePass?

"The narrative was that GamePass increased sales", well not for an "AAA" game with 70$ price tag, every sane person would play it for "free" with their subscription.

Microsoft paid Square and both are making money while Xbox players are having fun, why does anything else matters?

Keep crying, it's tasty.

I only see people that heavily lean towards the Xbox saying this; as if in their eyes, if PS fans weren't upset, the value they see in game pass would not matter. People can discuss the viability of game pass and other similar services. It doesn't have to be taken as a negative thing but then again, a lot of things wouldn't be if people just took off their console war lenses.

 

[Batiman]

So what's the reason for the massive difference in your view?

Well there’s always a difference between the two platforms. Hard to compare a new IP. It’s also expected to have less with GP off the bat. I’d wait a bit to see if sales on Xbox. The game being in GP also promotes the game for other platform holders as well. We could see MLB increase on PS4 because of GP. There was that other dev that said sales skyrocketed on Nintendo switch when it came on games pass.

 

[Zok310]

The Xbox brand on life support.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Wowzas at PS5 selling more than PS4

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

But Phil told me GamePass leads to more game sales not less.

Sure our guy Phil can't be lying!

Phil is FOS.

 

[Three]

Well there’s always a difference between the two platforms. Hard to compare a new IP. It’s also expected to have less with GP off the bat. I’d wait a bit to see if sales on Xbox. The game being in GP also promotes the game for other platform holders as well. We could see MLB increase on PS4 because of GP. There was that other dev that said sales skyrocketed on Nintendo switch when it came on games pass.

Was it for an unheard of game? Considering you mention them as "that other dev" I would guess so. Sure I can see that. Gamepass is good for exposure just as Xbox Live Arcade was. For big games that don't need the exposure though it will no doubt decrease units sold.

 

[Batiman]

It's a small sample size so far in terms of sales but over the next year a trend will start to emerge.

If the majority sentiment that exists here also applies to the general populous of gamepass subscribers then the results won't end up being any different to what we have with this game:

Game Pass users: Do you buy the games afterwards to support the devs?

I bought Halo MCC on Steam despite having it on Game Pass because i want to have it on Steam and give extra support for bringing one of my favorite franchises to PC. Also thinking of doing the same with Gears 5 since Steam has it on sale now. Have you bought any games from Game Pass since...

www.neogaf.com

I probably voted “no waste of money”. But TBH I’ll end up buying a few of those games at some point only because of GP. Games I probably wouldn’t even look at before. One day in the future I’ll try and play it and it’ll be off the service and I’ll end up scooping it up for cheap or something. Without GP, I wouldn’t even of tried it.

 

[Gone]

I only see people that heavily lean towards the Xbox saying this; as if in their eyes, if PS fans weren't upset, the value they see in game pass would not matter. People can discuss the viability of game pass and other similar services. It doesn't have to be taken as a negative thing but then again, a lot of things wouldn't be if people just took off their console war lenses.

Check the first few replies in this thread and you'll see why we "who are leaning Xbox" do this.

As a consumer who wants to play Outriders, why would I care for all the "GamePass bad or it's hurting sales" talk?

Devs and publisher are getting paid and I get to play a game that I don't have to pay 70$ for, so everyone wins (except the industry experts here).

 

[Batiman]

Was it for an unheard of game? Considering you mention them as "that other dev" I would guess so. Sure I can see that. Gamepass is good for exposure just as Xbox Live Arcade was. For big games that don't need the exposure though it will no doubt decrease units sold.

Indie Dev Says Switch Sales Increased After Their Game Went To Xbox Game Pass

SMG Studio has been tracking Nintendo Switch sales for their game Death Squared to see how different sales and events have impacted it, and one spike is surprising.

www.gamespot.com

Well I exaggerated the skyrocketed part. But this came to mind

 

[xion4360]

people not buying a game they dont have to pay for...

wow who would have thought.

 

[dem]

No shit

 

[johnjohn]

Man Xbox being successful is really making people crack eh? lmao

 

[Yselacrey00]

If services like game pass become the norm (we shouldn't forget Apple Arcade which is pretty much the same thing), they could change how we currently see game ownership or game ownership might even get redefined. People are already getting use to the idea of having access to a set of games (how big of an influence that will have, will become clear as this generation continues.)

Based on what people who game only on the Xbox are saying, they are completely fine with it. So we're going to see a clear divide between people who like to own their collection vs people who just want to play and don't necessarily need to own it. If Sony does not pivot or more accurately change focus (we know they have downloads on PS now), that will be the key difference between the two systems.


You're not claiming the games on game pass to own or associate with your account.. There are some titles that will stay on the service but there are going to many that rotate or might not return at all after showing their once.

Yes, but what's the point of keeping a game once you finished it? You would have to really really really love the game to do that.

 

[Trogdor1123]

Retail? Are we in 1998? When in the next offspring concert?

I like offspring... The lead singers voice at the end of concert is pretty rough.

 

[THE DUCK]

Kind of useless information. So let's say they sold 5,000 units on ps5, 3,300 units on ps4. and 1,700 on xbox. That's $581,000 for Sony sales.

On xbox, they sold $102,000. Say ms gave them 1.5 million for the game on gamepass......which one is doing better now?

Double that out, gamepass still wins for the developer. Less risk overall too.
Numbers are pure guesswork, could be 5x or 10x on a numbers.......
Plus it would appear most of the Xbox sales of an xbox game comes after the game rolls off gamepass, and add on sales could be much higher due to more users.

Now none of this takes into account production of the disk, or sony/ms regular take.

 

[Clintizzle]

Imagine being a grown man and arguing that paying $70USD for a game vs getting it as part of a subscription is better.

Embarrassing.

 

[Kagey K]

So you are saying people that were interested in the game and subscribed to Gamepass didn’t buy the game, and those that were interested and don’t have Gamepass did?

I for one, am shocked at this obvious info.

 

[Jaysen]

Shouldn’t gamepass be bolstering sales? According to lying Phil anyways.

What even is this question? Seriously, what? No one can be this dumb.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Imagine being a grown man and arguing that paying $70USD for a game vs getting it as part of a subscription is better.

Embarrassing.

Hmm it's $59.99

 

[Kagey K]

Hmm it's $59.99

That’s another side effect of Gamepass, you don’t need to know or care what the price of the game is.

 

[Shmunter]

There are people that won’t buy a game when the perceived value is through the floor. Even if they don’t have gamepass.

 

[Shadowstar39]

Try playing that tangible Outriders game when the server shuts down

Oh its a games as a service always online game? Well then digital for that makes sense. Surprised it's not free to play.

I know nothing about this game, obviously. Of course I do buy digital on steam gog but consoles I still like physical copies as storage is limited and stores shut down. I'm just a bit against all digital and my fear is race to the bottom ios/android style. Where everything is cheap on game pass but loaded with iap and loot box, buy extra features they used to include in the base game.

 

[DaGwaphics]

The previous narrative was that it leads to increased sales due to the increased exposure but the reality is very different.

Like you said, why would someone buy the game when it's available day one on the service? I've been laughed at when I've previously stated I would buy games that released day one on gamepass after trying them out and liking them. I was told the developers have already been paid so I don't need to buy it. Apparently also buying games is against the gamepass code of conduct.

I think the issue is more you just didn't understand what they were saying. Obviously, initial game sales on Xbox are going to take a hit when something is launched on GP. But, there are a lot of benefits, the publisher already arranged the game being on GP, the game gets a big surge in active players, a surge in active players can help sell software on other platforms - including PS, GP players might spend $$$ within the game, GP players might buy the game when it leaves, etc. It's not nearly as simple to look at as you make it out to be.

Good thing that publishers have people that run the numbers and know if GP is good for them or not.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

That’s another side effect of Gamepass, you don’t need to know or care what the price of the game is.

You mean one is so used to renting that one becomes ignorant and states false things?

 

[Gone]

You're not claiming the games on game pass to own or associate with your account.. There are some titles that will stay on the service but there are going to many that rotate or might not return at all after showing their once.

Good thing you can buy it after it leaves the service (and you get a discount, too).

 

[dcmk7]

Kind of useless information. So let's say they sold 5,000 units on ps5, 3,300 units on ps4. and 1,700 on xbox. That's $581,000 for Sony sales.

On xbox, they sold $102,000. Say ms gave them 1.5 million for the game on gamepass......which one is doing better now?

Double that out, gamepass still wins for the developer. Less risk overall too.
Numbers are pure guesswork, could be 5x or 10x on a numbers.......
Plus it would appear most of the Xbox sales of an xbox game comes after the game rolls off gamepass, and add on sales could be much higher due to more users.

Now none of this takes into account production of the disk, or sony/ms regular take.

I guess Microsoft will effectively pay the difference in lost of sales earnings between the two formats, at the very minimum.

It's an interesting approach, you have one console manufacturer making money off of this game just by selling it.

And the other is effectively paying compensation to the developers since sales will be hit hard by its appearance on the subscription service.

It's hard to see how it's sustainable. Guess that's why we never see figures.

 

[TheMay30thMan]

ouch

GamePass is killing sales and PS5 selling more consoles than XBox certainly didn't help.

Can you please direct me to the store shelves where I can find a Series X?

 

[Kagey K]

You mean one is so used to renting that one becomes ignorant and states false things?

Jesus christ.

He made a mistake. Does the $10.01 difference change the point he was making?

Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill.

 

[Goalus]

Retail sales
Who in their right mind would buy a boxed game in 2021?

But Phil told me GamePass leads to more game sales not less.

Sure our guy Phil can't be lying!

Phil surely wasn't talking about retail sales.

 

[MaulerX]

Please provide a statement where Phil or any exec from Xbox said that Game Pass users buys more games outside where Gamepass exits? Why people wouldn't buy digitally where it has 20% discount, so, Xbox, but it will buy it for PS platform instead??? LOL

It's clear your not understanding the concept.

If a game is on Game Pass (say Outriders) then more people are playing said game, talking about it, streaming it etc... It gets more exposure and thus people from other platforms (say PS), wants to get in on the hype, wants to play what others are playing, wants to experience for themselves what they see when others stream the game. That's the halo effect.

It does not mean a Game Pass user will go and buy the game for PS. Come on now.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Jesus christ.

He made a mistake. Does the $10.01 difference change the point he was making?

Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill.

It sure does when xbox trolls like yourself constantly blab about $70 games(even though XSX has $70 games as well lolz)

 

[DaGwaphics]

It's hard to see how it's sustainable. Guess that's why we never see figures.

You are looking at it like Sony is making money and MS is only outlaying $$$ here.

That might be the case in the early going, but the end goal would be to have enough GP subscribers where you have both profit and costs figured in.

Say they want 50% profit and 25% first party development costs and 25% third-party inclusion costs. Only MS knows what their costs and real targets are, but in any scenario there would be a certain threshold of subscribers that would hit the desired marks. At that point, the $$$ spent on a game, whether first or third party, are just a necessary part of keeping the profit target coming and subscribers subscribed. It's the end goal of all such services. It should be easier to hit in gaming than video streaming where Netflix is spending 17B on just in-house content and more than that again for third-party content every year, even at $100m each, you just don't need that many AAA games in a year on the service.

 

[Kagey K]

It sure does when xbox trolls like yourself constantly blab about $70 games(even though XSX has $70 games as well lolz)

You got me confused for someone else. There is less than a handful of posts where I've ever talked about 70.00 games.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

I've played it on my Series X. Glad I didn't have to buy it, but it is an actual damn good game. The power of Xbox Game Pass. I may buy it at a discounted price at some point, maybe. Not sure what I'll decide yet, but I'm enjoying my full, unrestricted access while I figure that out.

 

[Mr.Vodoo]

This thread has proven quite a lot on how blind gamers are, or is it just fanboy syndrome?

Attacking a game for not selling well when it is available on a subscription service is probably one of the most senseless things I've seen here.

Also, the lack of basic understanding of how Game Pass works. The service is not designed to increase sales for games that are active on the platform. This usually happens after the game leaves. Folks who are playing Outriders right now and enjoy it will likely want to continue playing after it leaves Game Pass.

Additionally, Microsoft and the developers stand to make a lot of money from in-game items while the title is on Game Pass.

 

[Goalus]

It's hard to see how it's sustainable. Guess that's why we never see figures.

Yes, absolutely.
I hope Sony won't launch a competing service and will continue to sell games for $70, maybe even raise the price to $80 in order to stay profitable.

 

[dcmk7]

Yes, absolutely.
I hope Sony won't launch a competing service and will continue to sell games for $70, maybe even raise the price to $80 in order to stay profitable.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

It's hard to see how it's sustainable. Guess that's why we never see figures.

I guess it's hard to see how Netflix is sustainable with solely a sub plan revenue stream, no other sources of sales, and they pay a ton in original series, licensing costs for 4,000 movies and 2,000 tv episodes, and bandwidth/servers.

They hit a critical mass at some point and has been profitable for years.

 

[Concern]

They can’t wait for Game “I’ll suck your dick for a cheese burger” Pass and streaming to become viable so they can stop the need to make hardware and exclusives

Holy shit.... and I thought this thread couldn't possibly get any stupider. Then I come back and see a gem like this lol

Some of you are getting too personal with these plastic boxes. This is really doing a number on a lot of you.

 

[sainraja]

Good thing you can buy it after it leaves the service (and you get a discount, too).

No one was saying you can't buy the games. Do you not understand what you originally said? lol

 

[Yeagerist754]

This thread has proven quite a lot on how blind gamers are, or is it just fanboy syndrome?

Attacking a game for not selling well when it is available on a subscription service is probably one of the most senseless things I've seen here.

Also, the lack of basic understanding of how Game Pass works. The service is not designed to increase sales for games that are active on the platform. This usually happens after the game leaves. Folks who are playing Outriders right now and enjoy it will likely want to continue playing after it leaves Game Pass.

Additionally, Microsoft and the developers stand to make a lot of money from in-game items while the title is on Game Pass.

Yeah, I wasn't going to play this game until it was announced it would come on Gamepass. Now I'm enjoying it a lot through Gamepass but I'm not gonna buy it for now. However there's a high likelihood I'll purchase it once it leaves the service.

 

[Kagey K]

Holy shit.... and I thought this thread couldn't possibly get any stupider. Then I come back and see a gem like this lol

Some of you are getting too personal with these plastic boxes. This is really doing a number on a lot of you.

Wow somehow I missed that gem. Truly some special people around right now.

 

[Neo Blaster]

Xbox fans don't worry about those numbers, I'm sure sales will increase, cause according to your claims Gamepass helps games sell.

 

[dcmk7]

I guess it's hard to see how Netflix is sustainable with solely a sub plan revenue stream, no other sources of sales, and they pay a ton in original series, licensing costs for 4,000 movies and 2,000 tv episodes, and bandwidth/servers.

They hit a critical mass at some point and has been profitable for years.

This is a weird comparison. You just wanted to compare GamePass to something which is successful right? To validate it.. I get it.

Difference being Netflix adds about 30-40 million subscribers a year. And it's a completely different media with difference audience too.

Also had to borrow $15 billion to finance content which hasn't paid back yet.

Aside from that.. do you really think that gaming numbers exceed the number of people who just want to sit and watch a TV show occasionally?

Nope.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Xbox fans don't worry about those numbers, I'm sure sales will increase, cause according to your claims Gamepass helps games sell.

Xbox fans care about sales and profits as much as Spotify users care about their profits. Spotify has been losing money for years and has never made a profit once.

Yet I'm pretty sure Spotify users don't care.

Has Spotify ever made a profit?

Since it launched 12 years ago, Spotify has never posted an annual net profit. In fact, the company's cumulative annual net losses in the past decade add up to €2.62 billion – or around $2.8bn at today's exchange rate.May 6, 2020

 

[dark_knightmare2]

Ohhhhh noooos whatever will we do?

More than half those 18 million gamepass subs are most likely playing. Thanks for your concern

Yeah game pass def nerfed the sales on Xbox but half of the subscribers playing lol no

 

[StreetsofBeige]

This is a weird comparison. You just wanted to compare GamePass to something which is successful right? To validate it.. I get it.

Difference being Netflix adds about 30-40 million subscribers a year. And it's a completely different media with difference audience too.

Also had to borrow $15 billion to finance content which hasn't paid back yet.

Aside from that.. do you really think that gaming numbers exceed the number of people who just want to sit and watch a TV show occasionally?

Nope.

NF has about 200 million users. Of course no gaming sub will reach that. BUt for NF to make profit for years, they didn't need 200 million.

They even made money early on. Wiki.

2003

On June 14, 2002, the company sold an additional 825,000 shares of common stock at the same price. After incurring substantial losses during its first few years, Netflix posted its first profit during the fiscal year 2003, earning US$6.5 million profit on revenues of US$272 million.

Netflix Revenue and Net Income by Year: FY 1998 to 2019 - Dazeinfo

The graph represents Netflix Revenue and Net Income by year, starting from fiscal 1998 to the recent year. Netflix annual revenue and net profit in 2019

dazeinfo.com

They've made profit every year since 2003. In the linked chart you can see the actual numbers as the profits in early years was low it doesn't show up in red bars.

 

[lefty1117]

sucks those PS5 guys gotta pay full price

 

[The Pleasure]

That's the official flavor of power rangers battle for the grid.