LiquidRex
Member
We need the Die Shot.
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chilichote
Member
Yes!We need the Die Shot.
Gamerguy84
Member
Just speculation on my part but they might be doing that. I read somewhere they patented the name XS. Wondering what that would be.
DarkMage619
$MSFT
The XSS holding back this generation continues to be something complained about despite the fact that it continues to handle games just fine. I remember when Cyberpunk 2077 came out and that game ran horribly on every last gen console but ran fine on the XSS a console some here stated was weaker than the X1X. The XSS has the same quality CPU as the PS5 and XSX yet for some reason it's holding everything back. It is on MS to release a dev kit that allows developers to properly optimize games for all of their platforms. If a dev is having problems they should contact MS for assistance not run to Twitter to rage and fuel fanboy wars. I hope that ID guy learned his lesson.
As stated earlier the PS5 should not be affected anyway because according to the Sony fans here Sony makes the best games and those games won't be on XSS anyway. Looks like a win for everyone then. Gamers on a budget get a console that will get support for years to come and people who want higher fidelity graphics will also have a system that supports their wants too. The XSS is a perfectly capable system for the resolution and audience it is targeting.
As stated earlier the PS5 should not be affected anyway because according to the Sony fans here Sony makes the best games and those games won't be on XSS anyway. Looks like a win for everyone then. Gamers on a budget get a console that will get support for years to come and people who want higher fidelity graphics will also have a system that supports their wants too. The XSS is a perfectly capable system for the resolution and audience it is targeting.
saintjules
Member
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Sinthor
Gold Member
But the XSS is a perfect vehicle for Microsoft's focus. Their entire focus is on moving to a more platform agnostic business with GamePass. The XSS provides a true 'low cost' option and vehicle to try and move people to the subscription model and grow that part of the business which is their prime focus. Having just a disk-less version of the XSX for only $100 less, wouldn't prove to have as wide adoption as the XSS which is significantly cheaper.
Microsoft is focused on bringing the gaming division around to the rest of the Microsoft model and philosophy which is not hardware. It's software and services.
Razvedka
Banned
No offense, but your argument stands in opposition to ID Software engine developers and the latest guys just interviewed.
I'm not super into console wars, but in this case I think the experts have been giving their assessment on the situation. I do think that this will effect the games that hit PS5 in terms of multiplats and also PC. As ID noted, it's not as easy as cutting resolution. Best case the cutting of less "gameplay centric" stuff like Raytracing for XSS will be enough that important stuff isn't removed.
Edit: as for the CPU it's largely the same but a bit slower. Not a huge deal but I'm sure it doesn't make stuff easier for devs.
Sinthor
I agree XSS makes sense for them. I just wonder if the cost is worth it or if they largely regard it as an externality or something. I wish they'd made a different choice.
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sircaw
Banned
.
Obviously, you don't know how Microsoft's works, that edition is coming later this year. In fact look out for another 3 new Microsoft consoles coming to this Xmas.
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
It’s because the S has another purpose. If devs only targeted a 12TF machine then all of xCloud would need to be pushing 12TF.
Requiring them to also target 4TF means they can render those games at 4TF in the cloud for lower tiered users or lower resolutions, while using 12TF for higher tiered users / resolutions.
They can either use S chips for that or potentially some virtualization on higher end chips.
Personally think they’ll use S chips, might even be the initial “next gen roll out” in general since right now they are last-gen 720P and going next-gen 1080p would be one way to improve xCloud without enormous costs.
Virtualization is possible (having 3 users on the same hardware) but couldn’t just be X APUs in the cloud as you can’t split the rest of the setup 3 ways.
FranXico
Member
What? How? Rest In Peace.
Razvedka
Banned
Dude. I never considered this!
What if they're using X chips Isn't that what some users here have implied XSX hardware seems engineered to do? Geordie mentioned this.
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IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
But this only works for devs if the S / and “running S in xCloud” concept actually increases userbase.
If it doesn’t then they are just stuck supporting something with little to no benefit.
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
X GPU for sure; but the APU can't be split into 3 ways because of the CPU.. and while the S has lower memory bandwidth, it's not 1/3rd of the X's....so even the GPU wouldn't just work split 3 ways.
It is of course, exactly "1/3rd the teraflops".. but there are other problems.
DarkMage619
$MSFT
If it was up to developers they would have machines with 100GB of RAM and 2TB of storage. There is never a strong enough platform for games they want to develop on. Growing the market share of potential customers is better for the industry than making cutting edge hardware for the elite to develop for and play on.No offense, but your argument stands in opposition to ID Software engine developers and the latest guys just interviewed.
I'm not super into console wars, but in this case I think the experts have been giving their assessment on the situation. I do think that this will effect the games that hit PS5 in terms of multiplats and also PC. As ID noted, it's not as easy as cutting resolution. Best case the cutting of less "gameplay centric" stuff like Raytracing for XSS will be enough that important stuff isn't removed.
Edit: as for the CPU it's largely the same but a bit slower. Not a huge deal but I'm sure it doesn't make stuff easier for devs.
The XSS isn't designed for gaming enthusiasts here on this board but it's perfect for someone who casually enjoys playing games and doesn't need 4k. Again if any developer is struggling with optimization of XSS games MS is the one to contact not Twitter. They have a vested interest in seeing the XSS succeed so I'm certain that they would be happy to assist.
Insane Metal
Member
WAIT
Xbox Pope is dead? What the fuck? What happened??
EDIT
NO!!! HE'S NOT DEAD. Just changing the working name. Wew.
Xbox Pope is dead? What the fuck? What happened??
EDIT
NO!!! HE'S NOT DEAD. Just changing the working name. Wew.
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saintjules
Member
I think it's actually his fan made stuff that's RIP. I believe he signed a contract for full time work or it's a rebranding of some kind.
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Great Hair
Banned
Not for the squeamish.
- no name studio with no past, but worked for TV? as a camera man?
- free UE4 tools
- gore or titties for views, clicks
- fake pre-render game-play teaser with even more motion-blur than Godfall
All these ####weebs only co-exist because the tools to work with are for free. No need to pay anything ... literally anyone can create games now thanks to free UE4 and Unity. Hence why there is so much garbage on steam.
To be honest, this leaves me cold af. Most likely made with pre made assets from the store ...
- free UE4 tools
- gore or titties for views, clicks
- fake pre-render game-play teaser with even more motion-blur than Godfall
All these ####weebs only co-exist because the tools to work with are for free. No need to pay anything ... literally anyone can create games now thanks to free UE4 and Unity. Hence why there is so much garbage on steam.
To be honest, this leaves me cold af. Most likely made with pre made assets from the store ...
assurdum
Banned
It's not exactly that surprising. Such CUs counts and 312GB of bandwidth isn't it exactly cheap. A discless version doesn't recover properly the costs of such choice considered they have to stay at the same price point of a ps5 hardware with cheaper components. The lower specs SKU was the only viable option for a low price a point. I suspect the initial price was 399 with player disc but doesn't expect at all a ps5 digital version at such price so they choose a discless version of series S.
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Hey I like cheese
!You read the article and I am not sure a developer (a smaller/indie one most of all) in interview normally goes “this is shit”. Polite, but clear that his game was built for XSS specs to avoid scaling complex systems that do not scale easily and run into RAM management issues (that again eat into development and polish time)... which does not say destroy nor validate the XSS strategy (it does not certainly go against the comment by the Id Software dev I quoted before IMHO).
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Mr Moose
Member
I don't get it.
BigLee74
Member
Yeah, sane people know this, and are at peace. But gums must be bumped in this thread it would seem
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Considering performance on XSX and PS5 vs PS4, I am not sure anyone said XSS should have performed like shit in a CPU heavy game like CP2077 (or a not super optimised one that stresses the CPU a lot). You are making a strawman.
The XSS is not a super shitty machine in and of itself, but it certainly has a very malleable definition of capable and target audience (we have already seen titles that cut effects and RT as well as resolution, the latter going quite below 720p already at the start of the generation).
Gamers on a budget would be far far better served by a digital only $349 XSX with 512 GB of SSD and the Xbox developers would have a single unified target spec to target.
Razvedka
Banned
I thought we had BOM breakdowns/realistic estimates for both and the two machines should have a reasonably similar cost? Naturally that doesn't account for marketing, R&D, etc.
assurdum
Banned
Well a difference around 70 bucks isn't it exactly insignificant. I remember 460 and 530 at worst respectively for the 2 hardware.
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Imtjnotu
Member
Cyber punk is a last gen game.
FrankWza
Member
Didn’t you read his post? The ID Dev got pow pow and learned his lesson. In the future he will fill out a support ticket and email customer service instead of going on Twitter. Meanwhile, didnt 505 call them out in the spec sheet for control? How many devs have insinuated or flat out called the system out at this point?No offense, but your argument stands in opposition to ID Software engine developers and the latest guys just interviewed.
I'm not super into console wars, but in this case I think the experts have been giving their assessment on the situation. I do think that this will effect the games that hit PS5 in terms of multiplats and also PC. As ID noted, it's not as easy as cutting resolution. Best case the cutting of less "gameplay centric" stuff like Raytracing for XSS will be enough that important stuff isn't removed.
Charming! Everyone got me on ignore or something?! I've had posted a few video links to Returnal before and nobody batted an eyelid but when bigshot Bo posts it becomes the hot topic. That cuts guys, that cuts real deep ... just messing
/s
Lol, in fairness I was banned for a bit from this thread. The day when.. I'll just say xbox fans, were griping about PS4 controllers not working fully on PS5, acting like we don't get a PS5 controller with the machine, really annoyed me and I blew my top. What a complete non-thing to lob at Sony, when there are actual things you can slate them for.
DarkMage619
$MSFT
How did that last gen game run on last gen hardware? How did it run on the 'powerful' X1X vs the lowly XSS?
Mr Moose
Member
By being a higher resolution. What's your argument here?
Xbox Series S uses a dynamic resolution with the highest resolution found being 2560x1440 and the lowest resolution found being approximately 1792x1008. Pixel counts at or near 2112x1188 seem to be common on Xbox Series S.
Xbox One X uses a dynamic resolution with the highest resolution found being 3200x1800 and the lowest resolution found being 1920x1080. On Xbox One X pixel counts at 3200x1800 seem to be rare and pixel counts at or near 2304x1296 seem to be common.
Cyberpunk 2077 Xbox Series X|S vs Xbox One X/S Frame Rate Comparison Stats
All Scenes Platforms,Xbox Series X Performance Mode,Xbox Series X Quality Mode,Xbox Series S,Xbox One X,Xbox One S Frame Amounts Game Frames,28882,15393,15415,14316,11730 Video Frames,30847,30848,30854,30846,30854 Frame Tearing Statistics Total Torn Frames,0,0,0,294,910 Lowest Torn Line,-,-,-,21...
29.98fps 27.84fps
The XSS CPU helping with that avg. framerate.
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Imtjnotu
Member
Don't care honestly. It's a last gen game not made for next gen
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IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
He didn't say that actually.
The game is coming out on PS4 and XBox one.. it's an indie game.... he's talking about the future of the generation and making rather off the cuff remarks that don't have anything to do with his game which is designed to work on 4GB of RAM.
He actually said XSS was super easy for his game.
It's great that you told me I was selectively reading though.
mejin
Member
They definitely didn't think about it.
PS5 DE took everyone by surprise. That's some of the examples why "insiders" don't really exist, they are full of shit.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
I read it all and it is why I did not say he shat on the XSS, but it seems like you refuse/are unable to accept how designing a game around the RAM available for XSS translates in what I said (which you must have just skimmed through): he said what he had to make it easy on himself, that is he designed something, RAM wise, around the constraints of the lowest common denominator and adapted the rest from that point forward.
He said that CPU wise he found the two systems “almost identical” as they are not word apart... and likely writing the AI/Physics/general business logic for the XSS’s CPU was more than enough for him to hit the target for the game. Meanwhile we already had devs on far bigger projects complaining loudly (one publicly) about the XSS HW proposition RAM wise: see the screenshot I posted earlier “min specs... matter”.
Not sure why there is this circling of the wagons around the digital only $299 XSS where a digital only $349-399 XSX (the former could have been a budget 512 GB SSD mode) would have been a much much much much better value and would have helped deliver you games sooner and with less effort from the devs
.I guess there is the dream that XSS will always deliver 1080-1440p RT enabled 60 FPS visuals with just slightly reduced texture detail compared to XSX, but with the overall fidelity intact AND at the same time without holding devs back so that they would be able to extract the max potential of the XSX at the same time.
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danielJackson
Banned
Market shows if people thinks xss kind of weaker machine is needed.
And it seems that no, it is not wanted, because it have been available on stores(online+retail) almost since The launch on many countries.
If it would be that good of an idea, it would be sold out like PS5 or partly/almost sold out like xsex
And it seems that no, it is not wanted, because it have been available on stores(online+retail) almost since The launch on many countries.
If it would be that good of an idea, it would be sold out like PS5 or partly/almost sold out like xsex
Lunatic_Gamer
Gold Member
MLB The show 21 cover leaked confirmed coming to Xbox
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
Rumours I've heard (and take this with a pinch of salt) from within MS, is that the sales overwhelmingly favour XSX versus XSS.
Razvedka
Banned
Which to me isn't super surprising given early adopters are pretty dedicated to the hobby. Why settle? But if this trend continues it's doubly unfortunate (ignoring gamepass and xcloud) since developers will be constrained thanks to a minority of users.
With Xcloud, and provided the performance they're targeting is indeed XSS and not XSX, maybe the math is different. But I'm assuming they want the XSS to do really well.
We'll see in the mo the and years to come.
FrankWza
Member
It should be highly sought after considering the price and gp option shouldn’t it?
For $500 after tax you get a system and as many games as you can play and play online for 3 years.
Razvedka
Banned
Really? I thought all the custom I/O and cooling on PS4 (like the liquid metal cooling) was jacking the cost up considerably. I'm surprised it's significantly less expensive to produce.
Razvedka
Banned
Really? I thought all the custom I/O and cooling on PS4 (like the liquid metal cooling) was jacking the cost up considerably. I'm surprised it's significantly less expensive to produce.
Edit:
Bloomberg says "around $450" for PS5. I can't imagine XSX is much, if at all, above that considering both are bundling accessories like the controller. Note: I'm assuming the BOM doesn't include the controller.
PlayStation 5 price: How does Sony choose what to charge?
How does a company like Sony decide something like the PlayStation 5's price. Is it just based on cost or do other factors play a major role?
www.google.com
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Physiognomonics
Member
Actually some estimated the cooling on PS5 will be cheaper than on XSX thanks to liquid cooling and bigger volume dedicated to the cooling on Sony machine (so they actually need less copper for the heatsink).
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Razvedka
Banned
I mean that's the question. It's the one Microsoft is betting "yes" on.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Come on man. HouseMarque-> Resogun. That should tell you enough!!!
Edit: I didn't like resogun much on my first playthrough either. The second was so much better, it made me appreciate the game better.
I don't like Resogun nor Souls games, I don't play them even for free.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I don't like Resogun nor Souls games, I don't play them even for free.
kyliethicc
Member
MLB The show 21 cover leaked confirmed coming to Xbox
We've known this for a while. It'll be on PC and Switch soon enough too. Makes sense that the MLB wants a multiplat game.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Admit it, the butch looking woman has piqued your interest.
Too many long hours with those battle-hardened Viking women have changed you bo.
first Abby now this.
I bet her experienced butt would squeeze real hard in action.
Three Jackdaws
Banned
Ragnawhat?
3liteDragon
Member
As much as I like to see that happen, I don’t think we’re seeing gameplay for that until summer.
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