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[ethomaz]

The medium is not a next gen game.

As you can see in this video, the unboxing for the game has the dualshock 4 and says (ps4 & xbox one).




Microsoft paid team bloober to make it look like this was a next gen exclusive game on Series X. Only possible on Series X. This is another polish game studio lying to the public. When will it stop?

Somebody posted that last week but mods choose to lock the thread lol

 

[Three Jackdaws]

Not just culling though; the nanite tech automatically "converts" 100's of millions or billions of poly models into models with roughly 1-polygon per pixel. It's not fully understood yet (and TBH has confused me from the start) but looks like some bad-ass tech that's going to scale really well (and work particularly well on PS5 of course.)

The numbers of polygon's Epic was throwing around were for the "source models." The actual rendering is done w/o actually rendering anywhere close to the source polygons, without the dev having to make different sized models for different LODs. If the model is close to the player, it renders the virtual geometry with more polys, if it's farther away, with less.. somewhere close to the number of pixels the model is taking up on screen (and as it moves away from the player, less and less pixels/polys.)

It doesn't magically convert them, it's achieved through culling, your basically describing culling lol

Culling is what is preventing those polygons from being rendered.

 

[IntentionalPun]

It doesn't magically convert them, it's achieved through culling, your basically describing culling lol

Culling is what is preventing those polygons from being rendered.

No; culling is when you stop polygons from being rendered that aren't in view.

Nanite is far more than that. It intakes models with billions of polygons and then renders them at roughly 1 "micro-polgyon" per pixel. Meaning that at most, if it was filling the entirety of a 1440p image, it would be rendering a little more than 3.1 million polygons. (edit: actually can be more than 1 per pixel.. goal is to get to 1 per pixel, but UE5 demo was more like 2-3)

Literally nothing I said was "describing culling." Culling doesn't make a model be rendered with different amounts of polygons when it's closer to the player than farther. Culling just makes it so the back of the model isn't rendered, or parts of the model obscured by other things. I'm talking about the exact same model, facing the same direction, with nothing obstructing it, being rendered at different poly-levels automatically if it's taking up more or less of the screen (closer/farther.)

 

[saintjules]

the lead graphics engine designer laughs at me for stopping every 30 seconds to just rotate the camera and look at the sights and listen to the sounds of their game world. "Everything in the game is PBR with multiple sources of volumetric lighting. All of the characters in this game are unique. You will never see the same character model more than once." As I am playing I realize how difficult this game is. I play several games competitively multiple genres (Smite,R6,SFV,CoD,BF,League) but I am getting my ass handed to me. I take the lead character out into a hallway and two enemies rush into the room shooting and moving in what appears to be a tactical pattern. "Is this fucking guy shooting at me while the other guy is trying to circle around to flank me?" he laughs again. "Yep, suppressive fire." As the enemy shoots at me I take note of the deformation of the geometry on display, chunks of cement give way revealing the metal pipes underneath that hold the structure together. Everything is based in reality including what happens when you shoot people or get shot. Its beautiful but it aint pretty.

I sit the controller down (I'm about to die again anyways) "The game is definitely running at 60fps" he shakes his head at me "No its running at 90fps locked. native 4k." dumb stare "On which machine?" he smiles "Both of them."

Two hours and several drinks later

When I asked about the performance of both consoles his response was "Both have the same target we will see if either of them hit that target. " I pushed further and asked what the target was and his response was simply."Above 12" That is not for the XseX or the PS5,from what I can gather internally both machines are targeting very high performance which lines up with hearing earlier that the machines would both be $499 with both companies Taking a loss.

Notes
The gdk they are working with is not the final kit for either machine and XseX is currently ahead in terms of sheer power. Sonys tool set is much more complete and refined.
The trailer is all actual game play. Not in engine but game play.
Every developer or engineer I have ever met day drinks.

What game was this?

Edit: /s

 

[NeonGhost]

Somebody posted that last week but mods choose to lock the thread lol

Because it means nothing this is a a 3rd party selling custom controllers

 

[Three Jackdaws]

No; culling is when you stop polygons from being rendered that aren't in view.

Nanite is far more than that. It intakes models with billions of polygons and then renders them at roughly 1 "micro-polgyon" per pixel. Meaning that at most, if it was filling the entirety of a 1440p image, it would be rendering a little more than 3.1 million polygons.

Literally nothing I said was "describing culling." Culling doesn't make a model be rendered with different amounts of polygons when it's closer to the player than farther. Culling just makes it so the back of the model isn't rendered, or parts of the model obscured by other things. I'm talking about the exact same model, facing the same direction, with nothing obstructing it, being rendered at different poly-levels automatically if it's taking up more or less of the screen (closer/farther.)

The engineers at Epic claimed that Nanite crunches down 1 billion triangles into 20 million drawn triangles, a large number of those "crunched" triangles were being culled and it wasn't just the LOD adjustments (although I am not downplaying them). The culling was achieved by an advanced method known as "sparse voxel octree system" where it tests bounding boxes per pixel to determine what is visible. It then changes the primitive list and what vertices are linked to, I know this because I was told by a friend who develops and works on a similar system, hence the fancy words. He also stated that another key culling technique being used in UE5 demo was Voxel Column Culling and sent me this link:

Voxel Column Culling: Occlusion Culling for Large Terrain Models

We present Voxel Column Culling, an occlusion culling algorithm for real-time rendering of large terrain models. This technique can greatly reduce the number of polygons that must be rendered every frame, allowing a larger piece of terrain to be rendered at an...

link.springer.com

 

[IntentionalPun]

Why are you sharing this again? Did I ask for a link about culling?

Nanite isn't "culling." (it's a lot more than that)

Go ask your "friend" what nanite is; or don't.

 

[Three Jackdaws]

Why are you sharing this again? Did I ask for a link about culling?

Nanite isn't "culling."

Go ask your "friend" what nanite is; or don't.

Your wording is strange so I may have misunderstood you, I think you were referring to the individual high-poly models and not the number of triangles in each frame. I'll clarify myself.

Epic stated that there was over a billion triangles of source geometry (not models) in each frame.

Nanite crunches those polygons into 20 million drawn triangles on screen, this "crunching" was achieved through many techniques, most prominently culling, which is a double edged sword because it is computationally expensive but when done well the net gain in performance is better.

It was not a simple matter of Nanite adjusting LOD levels depending on the distance from the players frustum.

 

[IntentionalPun]

It’s not “primarily through culling” and I never said “it’s a simple matter of adjusting LOD levels.”

 

[Three Jackdaws]

It’s not “primarily through culling” and I never said “it’s a simple matter of adjusting LOD levels.”

It was and this was what I was told by someone works in the field and works on technologies similar to what we saw in Unreal Engine 5 and Nanite. I'll take there word over someone claiming otherwise.

But I'm not here to shove these opinions into peoples faces, your entitled to your opinion and I'll leave it at that.

 

[IntentionalPun]

You think Epic is going from 1,000,000,000 to 20,000,000 triangles “primarily through culling?”

You think upwards of 98% of the geometry is obstructed, and can be removed?

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

You think Epic is going from 1,000,000,000 to 20,000,000 triangles “primarily through culling?”

You think upwards of 98% of the geometry is obstructed, and can be removed?

I'm afraid, you seem to be mistaken about what culling is.

Culling is simply the process of removing vertices, triangles/primitives before the rasterization step (and even better before parameterization of those primitives - which is an optimization Primitive Shaders/Mesh Shaders hopes to achieve).

The fact that most culling is done based on the view frustum is a property of common culling methods, not a requirement of its definition.

Reducing the geometric complexity of a polygon mesh is by definition culling because you're removing those triangles/primitives.

There's even different types of culling, e.g. back-face culling, occlusion culling / Z-culling etc.. The methods nanite uses to reduce geometric complexity of the base high poly geometric meshes are just other types of culling.

The whole point of Nanite isn't to render 1b polygon mesh models within the game. That's impossible (on current-gen hardware at least) but to be able to render higher geometric complexity meshes through a combination of geometry processing in software (which side-steps the limitations of the fixed function hardware in the GPU front end), as well as automating the process of dynamically adjusting LODs; which eliminates the need for devs to have to manually author individual LOD level meshes for each asset, significantly cutting down a big chunk of development time.

Nanite ends up letting you render more polys per scene, because you can setup and rasterize more polys, including micro-polygons (i.e. sub-pixel sized polys); which exhibit inherently low rendering efficiency when trying to render via the traditional GPU rendering pipeline. It also lets you use the base, uber high fidelity meshes artists already create for rendering directly, rather than having to spend time authoring content to produce LOD meshes for each model.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Which to me isn't super surprising given early adopters are pretty dedicated to the hobby. Why settle? But if this trend continues it's doubly unfortunate (ignoring gamepass and xcloud) since developers will be constrained thanks to a minority of users.

With Xcloud, and provided the performance they're targeting is indeed XSS and not XSX, maybe the math is different. But I'm assuming they want the XSS to do really well.

We'll see in the mo the and years to come.

Nah PS5 will always be the leading platform, and XSS players seem to be getting used to 540-720p because in fact you can't see 1080p, 4K, nor 8K unless you are a normal person with a normal vision, which is the minority according to MS.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Really? I thought all the custom I/O and cooling on PS4 (like the liquid metal cooling) was jacking the cost up considerably. I'm surprised it's significantly less expensive to produce.

PS5 cooling solution is cheaper than XSX cooling system.

PS5: Conventional heat pipes + liquid metal = cheaper and better.
XSX: Vapor chamber + conventional paste = more expensive and less efficient.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

He was talking about in general from what I took from it and not about his game.
Having the Series S RAM as a baseline instead of the PS5/Series X 16GB will put a limit on things that don't scale as well as just lowering the res or something.

Doom is on Switch though, so he's not talking about last gen games. Going forward nothing will compete with PS Studios, just like last gen.

 

[kyliethicc]

What game was this?

it was fake. he was just a lying troll

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Ok I've been playing Ghost of Tsushima: Legends lately, and it's wonderful. Saying it's 4K on PS5 is a bit cheeky, it's 1440p at best. Graphics still look great but let's not fool ourselves with the 4K@60fps. Proves that it's just BC with open framerates.

At level 105 now, gonna finish 2 more survivals at Gold then check out the weekly challenges. I like the idea of only one legendary gear being equipped (2 with a perk trad-off), makes things interesting.

 

[SlimySnake]

Ok I've been playing Ghost of Tsushima: Legends lately, and it's wonderful. Saying it's 4K on PS5 is a bit cheeky, it's 1440p at best. Graphics still look great but let's not fool ourselves with the 4K@60fps. Proves that it's just BC with open framerates.

At level 105 now, gonna finish 2 more survivals at Gold then check out the weekly challenges. I like the idea of only one legendary gear being equipped (2 with a perk trad-off), makes things interesting.

How is the online population? Do you have trouble finding games?

 

[Bo_Hazem]

How is the online population? Do you have trouble finding games?

Surprisingly fast like 90%. If it takes like 1 minute then cancel and try again as it should throw you in another lobby. But Quick Play is the best as it gives you more rewards and 90% jump in from the beginning. I choose the mission manually to beat each level at different difficulties/tiers.

I'm actually surprised by the healthy community in the game, which is a must for a MP to thrive. Most players if not all are good and they don't troll around from what I experienced, more like 40-50 games.

 

[3liteDragon]

That UE5 demo was designed to showcase the absurd number of polygons it can push with the PS5, they could have easily dropped the polygon count by 10-15% to achieve 60 FPS and also retain the same visual quality.

Actually, Epic talked about the PS5 demo and said it was comfortably within the frame time budget to run it at 60FPS without even dropping the triangle count.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

PS5 cooling solution is cheaper than XSX cooling system.

PS5: Conventional heat pipes + liquid metal = cheaper and better.
XSX: Vapor chamber + conventional paste = more expensive and less efficient.

Just a point of clarification, Bo. Vapour chambers can provide rather higher heat fluxes than similar heat-pipe based designs, so their cooling capacity is higher. That said, because of the more complex fabrication, they're significantly more expensive ("significant" is of course in relative terms here).

MS's choice going with heat pipes is the right one because of the more traditional fixed GPU clock based design, thus the cooling solution needs more design margin baked in to be able to accommodate edge cases of exceptionally high hardware utilization.

With PS5's variable clock regime, power consumption and thus heat dissipation is more deterministic, thus providing the big benefit that they can reduce design margins on the cooling solution and thus reduce overall cost.

That liquid metal provides superior thermal properties is also another boon, as the biggest limitation to the efficiency of a computing cooling solution is the heat transfer via conduction through the thermal paste equivalent, and then the metal of the heat sink. Improving the thermal paste equivalent's thermal properties by going with a solution like liquid metal, increases the overall heat transfer coefficient, reducing the biggest barrier to heat transfer and allowing for overall higher heat fluxes, reducing the requisite amount of finned surface area required for the heat sink, thus reducing overall cost even further.

Surprisingly fast like 90%. If it takes like 1 minute then cancel and try again as it should throw you in another lobby. But Quick Play is the best as it gives you more rewards and 90% jump in from the beginning. I choose the mission manually to beat each level at different difficulties/tiers.

I'm actually surprised by the healthy community in the game, which is a must for a MP to thrive. Most players if not all are good and they don't troll around from what I experienced, more like 40-50 games.

I need to buy this game so bad.

I also need to buy a PS5.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Just a point of clarification, Bo. Vapour chambers can provide rather higher heat fluxes than similar heat-pipe based designs, so their cooling capacity is higher. That said, because of the more complex fabrication, they're significantly more expensive ("significant" is of course in relative terms here).

MS's choice going with heat pipes is the right one because of the more traditional fixed GPU clock based design, thus the cooling solution needs more design margin baked in to be able to accommodate edge cases of exceptionally high hardware utilization.

With PS5's variable clock regime, power consumption and thus heat dissipation is more deterministic, thus providing the big benefit that they can reduce design margins on the cooling solution and thus reduce overall cost.

That liquid metal provides superior thermal properties is also another boon, as the biggest limitation to the efficiency of a computing cooling solution is the heat transfer via conduction through the thermal paste equivalent, and then the metal of the heat sink. Improving the thermal paste equivalent's thermal properties by going with a solution like liquid metal, increases the overall heat transfer coefficient, reducing the biggest barrier to heat transfer and allowing for overall higher heat fluxes, reducing the requisite amount of finned surface area required for the heat sink, thus reducing overall cost even further.


I need to buy this game so bad.

I also need to buy a PS5.

"Vapour", you are from the UK, I guess. Used to use that proper spelling but got spoiled by studying in the US for 2 years and too much US-based content on the web, also the US English keyboard corrections. Thanks for the info!

Also GOT was fighting Naughty Dog's juggernaut or else it'll be the GOTY. Probably my best game ever after GOW.

 

[SSfox]

Doom is on Switch though, so he's no talking about last gen games. Going forward nothing will compete with PS Studios, just like last gen.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

"Vapour", you are from the UK, I guess. Used to use that proper spelling but got spoiled by studying in the US for 2 years and too much US-based content on the web, also the US English keyboard corrections. Thanks for the info!

Also GOT was fighting Naughty Dog's juggernaut or else it'll be the GOTY. Probably my best game ever after GOW.

Yeah, since moving to Canada last year (literally 6months prior to the pandemic---what timing eh?) I've been begrudgingly trying to get used to using N.American spelling as well as their (I'm sorry to say) ass-backwards date format system: mm-dd-yy.

After 36yrs of reading and writing UK spelling, US just feels all kinda wrong.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Meaning Doom is last gen if someone wants to argue that they made it work on the Switch, which this ID dev is from. PS Studios will only work on PS5 2022+.

Yeah, since moving to Canada last year (literally 6months prior to the pandemic---what timing eh?) I've been begrudgingly trying to get used to using N.American spelling as well as their (I'm sorry to say) ass-backwards date format system: mm-dd-yy.

After 36yrs of reading and writing UK spelling, US just feels all kinda wrong.

Yeah that wacky date format isn't the only thing that boggles me: Fahrenheit, miles/feet/inches and the funny 12 inches = foot, my Name became (Al Shanfari, Muhammad) for some reason, and hugging a lemon-shaped balloon is considered football while I'm still struggling to understand what does soccer even mean.

Good thing is that Americans are one of the most friendly people on Earth, but I don't go to clubs/bars to meet the worst of the community, hence my great impressions.

 

[D.Final]

Actually, Epic talked about the PS5 demo and said it was comfortably within the frame time budget to run it at 60FPS without even dropping the triangle count.

Let's see it on Series X

 

[kyliethicc]

Ok I've been playing Ghost of Tsushima: Legends lately, and it's wonderful. Saying it's 4K on PS5 is a bit cheeky, it's 1440p at best. Graphics still look great but let's not fool ourselves with the 4K@60fps. Proves that it's just BC with open framerates.

At level 105 now, gonna finish 2 more survivals at Gold then check out the weekly challenges. I like the idea of only one legendary gear being equipped (2 with a perk trad-off), makes things interesting.

Legends is a great mp game. Very fun.

 

[SSfox]

Meaning Doom is last gen if someone wants to argue that they made it work on the Switch, which this ID dev is from. PS Studios will only work on PS5 2022+.



Yeah that wacky date format isn't the only thing that boggles me: Fahrenheit, miles/feet/inches and the funny 12 inches = foot, my Name became (Al Shanfari, Muhammad) for some reason, and hugging a lemon-shaped balloon is considered football while I'm still struggle to understand what does soccer even mean.

Good thing is that Americans are one of the most friendly people on Earth, but I don't go to clubs/bars to meet the worst of the community, hence my great impressions.

I was referring to second part of your post, should've highlight it but i'm lazy when I post from mobile lol

 

[LiquidRex]

Not just culling though; the nanite tech automatically "converts" 100's of millions or billions of poly models into models with roughly 1-polygon per pixel. It's not fully understood yet (and TBH has confused me from the start) but looks like some bad-ass tech that's going to scale really well (and work particularly well on PS5 of course.)

The numbers of polygon's Epic was throwing around were for the "source models." The actual rendering is done w/o actually rendering anywhere close to the source polygons, without the dev having to make different sized models for different LODs. If the model is close to the player, it renders the virtual geometry with more polys, if it's farther away, with less.. somewhere close to the number of pixels the model is taking up on screen (and as it moves away from the player, less and less pixels/polys.)

Isn't there a link then, with how UE5 pushes polygons with the PS5 GE/Kraken Oodle compression technology.
Isn't the custom architecture an advantage over the XSX regardless of Tflops.
Another point, can we really do a like for like with Tflops of the PS5 to XSX. (XSX full RDNA 2 architecture quote by MS and the PS5 custom RDNA 2)

 

[saintjules]

it was fake. he was just a lying troll

I know, I didn't put enough sarcasm into my comment lol

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Best protagonist in gaming:

 

[Pedro Motta]

Best protagonist in gaming:

LOL looks like Kanye West.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

LOL looks like Kanye West.

The GOAT.

 

[D.Final]

Best protagonist in gaming:

The legendary who?

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

 

[SlimySnake]

This is not gonna be pretty. Lol

These consoles struggle with rt heavy titles and this is by far the worst one.

 

[Rudius]

Nice and very opportune.

 

[Loope]

Best protagonist in gaming:

Is this Demon's Souls? Loving the texture work

 

[saintjules]

A Playstation symbol on an Xbox case. Never thought I'd see it!

 

[kyliethicc]

Looks great. Basically a locked 60 or locked 30 with RT. Both at 1440p.

DualSense support, Activity cards, fast loading, etc. Very excited to try it out on PS5.

This is not gonna be pretty. Lol

These consoles struggle with rt heavy titles and this is by far the worst one.

Its basically locked frame rate all the time in both modes on PS5 from what the video shows

just a few minor dips when shits crazy lol

 

[kyliethicc]

A Playstation symbol on an Xbox case. Never thought I'd see it!

Interesting so no Switch version lol. Next year I guess.

Yeah weird seeing PS on xbox case

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

A Playstation symbol on an Xbox case. Never thought I'd see it!

Platform exclusive sports games never really made sense in the first place.

Glad Sony is publishing this multiplatform. It's by far the best baseball game on the market. So it makes sense to let the franchise reach the audience it deserves.

 

[kyliethicc]

Platform exclusive sports games never really made sense in the first place.

Glad Sony is publishing this multiplatform. It's by far the best baseball game on the market. So it makes sense to let the franchise reach the audience it deserves.

Especially because Xbox's biggest market is in the US and so is baseball's. I'm sure the MLB wants everyone to be able to play it.

 

[FrankWza]

Especially because Xbox's biggest market is in the US and so is baseball's. I'm sure the MLB wants everyone to be able to play it.

They could have made their own game, no? Nintendo too. I think Sony did this to keep 3rd party out of the mix. Sony already has the engine ready.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Especially because Xbox's biggest market is in the US and so is baseball's. I'm sure the MLB wants everyone to be able to play it.

If it was driven by the MLB I would presume it would have happened a long time ago. I'm anticipating this is more of an issue of next-gen increasing dev costs and thus commercial risk, and Sony recognizing the potential for increased overall profitability launching on Xbox (and presumably PC) deemed it worth it to take the plunge and publish multiplatform.

It's not a franchise that really benefits the brand by keeping it exclusive. Primarily because it's not a franchise consumers will buy console hardware specifically to play. You buy the console for the other exclusives you're interested in, and if you happen to be a baseball fan, you pick up the game. Hence why putting it also on Xbox and PC makes sense.

They could have made their own game, no? Nintendo too. I think Sony did this to keep 3rd party out of the mix. Sony already has the engine ready.

This is also a great point to consider. I know EA has had their eye on completing with Sony for the MLB license for a while now. So Sony launching The Show multiplatform establishes the franchise as the defacto baseball game franchise on all platforms, not just PS; thus leaving no room for others to come in with their own franchises on competing platforms.

 

[Dibils2k]

If it was driven by the MLB I would presume it would have happened a long time ago. I'm anticipating this is more of an issue of next-gen increasing dev costs and thus commercial risk, and Sony recognizing the potential for increased overall profitability launching on Xbox (and presumably PC) deemed it worth it to take the plunge and publish multiplatform.

It's not a franchise that really benefits the brand by keeping it exclusive. Primarily because it's not a franchise consumers will buy console hardware specifically to play. You buy the console for the other exclusives you're interested in, and if you happen to be a baseball fan, you pick up the game. Hence why putting it also on Xbox and PC makes sense.

The license agreement was coming to an end so MLB said either make it multiplatform or we will not sign with you (Sony)

it was 100% driven by MLB

 

[OverHeat]

2 months in the generation and we already have to go for low settings

DF: Control on PS5 Tech Review

Seems like a pretty good update with good performance on both modes, much improved over last gen.

www.neogaf.com

 

[kyliethicc]

They could have made their own game, no? Nintendo too. I think Sony did this to keep 3rd party out of the mix. Sony already has the engine ready.

I don't think anyone else could have with fully licensed teams, players, gear, stadiums, etc. Thats all in the MLB deal with Sony.

Its like why Konami's PES football game cannot have all the teams and players etc that FIFA has due to EA having licenses.
Same with Madden and NBA2K.

For example, for years (until like 2017 or so), both Gran Turismo and Forza lacked any Porsche cars because EA had an exclusive license for all Porsche cars in all games. Eventually it expired and we got Porsches in GT and Forza.

If it was driven by the MLB I would presume it would have happened a long time ago. I'm anticipating this is more of an issue of next-gen increasing dev costs and thus commercial risk, and Sony recognizing the potential for increased overall profitability launching on Xbox (and presumably PC) deemed it worth it to take the plunge and publish multiplatform.

It's not a franchise that really benefits the brand by keeping it exclusive. Primarily because it's not a franchise consumers will buy console hardware specifically to play. You buy the console for the other exclusives you're interested in, and if you happen to be a baseball fan, you pick up the game. Hence why putting it also on Xbox and PC makes sense.

No it is because Sony had to renew their license deal with the MLB and the league likely forced Sony.

If Sony had refused, I'm sure the MLB would have instead given the game license to EA or 2K.

 

[LiquidRex]

 

[IntentionalPun]

Isn't there a link then, with how UE5 pushes polygons with the PS5 GE/Kraken Oodle compression technology.
Isn't the custom architecture an advantage over the XSX regardless of Tflops.
Another point, can we really do a like for like with Tflops of the PS5 to XSX. (XSX full RDNA 2 architecture quote by MS and the PS5 custom RDNA 2)

Yes; that post you quoted I said "and work particularly well on the PS5 of course." The UE dev said that they mostly use software rasterization, even on PS5, but do take advantage of the PS5 hardware features in some places. But IIRC it was PS5's "primitive shaders", not specifically Kraken? I would kind of assume it was, but not sure that was actually stated. Xbox Series machines have mesh shaders, analogous to Sony's primitive shaders though.