Halo is Back
Member
Yes because adding extra value and a service that no other competitor has is "pathetic". This is such a consumer friendly move I don't see how anyone can de-value it.
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Microsoft has dragged next-gen conversation into old games
- Thread starter RCU005
- Start date
MrFunSocks
Banned
Eh, exclusive games are not as important these days as people on here pretend they are. 90% of the launch titles are multiplatform, and the console with the most exclusives doesn’t always sell the most. The PS4 exclusive list was pitiful compared to the XB1 for the first 12 months yet it outsold it with ease. It was an indie box for 12 months.
Did the Xbox sell out? Yep! Job done. A lot of Sony’s “exclusives“ are on PS4 and/or PC too, yet people are just ignoring that.
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sol_bad
Member
MS are focusing on backwards compatability because they have no first party titles and none of the available 3rd party games look "amazing". They have nothing to offer.
Side note, even though the Series X is the more powerful game, I don't believe it will have the best looking games. Bethesdas games will not miraculously start looking amazing because they are concentrating on a single console, I don't think they have the talent.
Side note, even though the Series X is the more powerful game, I don't believe it will have the best looking games. Bethesdas games will not miraculously start looking amazing because they are concentrating on a single console, I don't think they have the talent.
TheAmazingSpiderMan
Member
The genuine truth is they have no first party games to show so they need something to shout about. That’s the plain truth.
alabtrosMyster
Banned
“Never attempt to win by force what can be won by deception.”
― Niccolò Machiavelli, The Prince
AND
“…he who seeks to deceive will always find someone who will allow himself to be deceived.”
― Machiavelli Niccolo, The Prince
Aion002
Member
That's the contrast.
MS wants to end generations and turn the Xbox in a similar thing to gaming on pc, which means: The SX will play all the games you have + new things in better quality, eventually a new model will come and will do the same thing better and the consumers might upgrade it or keep using the old tech without the improvements and that's irrelevant, because the consumers will stay on the Xbox eco system, which is all MS wants. So BC for Xbox is everything.
While Sony is following the traditional model, that is: new gen, new stuff. Get hyped, because this thing is a new experience. The BC is just an extra.
You can clearly see that concept on the controllers of the PS5 and the SX: The SX is completely similar to the Xbox One controller, while the PS5 controller has much more stuff over the Ps4 one.
MS wants to end generations and turn the Xbox in a similar thing to gaming on pc, which means: The SX will play all the games you have + new things in better quality, eventually a new model will come and will do the same thing better and the consumers might upgrade it or keep using the old tech without the improvements and that's irrelevant, because the consumers will stay on the Xbox eco system, which is all MS wants. So BC for Xbox is everything.
While Sony is following the traditional model, that is: new gen, new stuff. Get hyped, because this thing is a new experience. The BC is just an extra.
You can clearly see that concept on the controllers of the PS5 and the SX: The SX is completely similar to the Xbox One controller, while the PS5 controller has much more stuff over the Ps4 one.
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digoutyoursoul
Member
It was underwhelming on PS4 for the first 12 months however you look at Xbox after that launch period which I thought it was solid despite the negativity surrounding the brand itself, the differences in momentum and quality.
I do realise this is subjective, a few diamonds in the rough apart, probably the worst generation Xbox has had is the Xbox One. The last major console release from Microsoft was the first week in September last year. Gears 5.
If they had perhaps a two team set up somewhere from who they had already before the studio captures they could of had something else new to follow Infinite soon after or replace it at launch ready for XSX launch.
I doubt anyone’s against backwards compatibility, it’s been in consoles for years. I’ve found it odd and underwhelming to see a lot of the PR towards launch surrounding it. it’s a nice convenience however it’s not something that’s gets some people solely excited for new hardware. New games and experiences do that. Always have done.
MrFunSocks
Banned
I’m more excited for Bc than for new games. Many people are, or care just as much. So many games from previous gens, including the current one, run like the dogs breakfast. Some of them are also the best games of all time. People that grew up with the current gen might not care, but there are more people that do.
MS know theh have a first party game release problem, which is why theh just bought 8 new studios, some with multiple teams. They now have 23 studios under MGS, probably with about 35 dev teams to make games. Buckle up because they’re in it for the long game, and game pass is going to be a wild ride in 2 years. You’ll have more first party games than you know what to do with, and they’ll all be “free”.
and yet the switch sell like hot cakes despite the lack of this “pro consumer” move
maybe this is GAF once again prioritizing their own breliefs on to the general public, and assuming that if gaf cares, clearly average joe believes this is also of vital importance.
MrFunSocks
Banned
The switch is a portable. If the switch wasn’t a portable and didn’t have BC it would be wii u levels of bomba.
I remember it like it was yesterday when XB1 did have better exclusives in the first year and Sony fans were
telling us that exclusives dont matter anymore its all about the ecosystem and 3rd party games .. you will
get a huge number of 3rd party games and i dont know why people act like they only play exclusive games
telling us that exclusives dont matter anymore its all about the ecosystem and 3rd party games .. you will
get a huge number of 3rd party games and i dont know why people act like they only play exclusive games
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Speaking of the wiiU, how much did BC help that console. I mean it did play the shit out of the wii library
its a checkbox feature at best. The equivalent to rumble in your controller, or online play. It’s not a priority nor does it sell consoles.
tryDEATH
Member
MrFunSocks
Banned
So your logic is that the switch doesn’t have bc and the wii u had Bc, therefor bc doesn’t matter? That’s a terrible way of interpreting things lol.
digoutyoursoul
Member
I grew up with the NES/Master System generation.
Yes they have a first party problem and they should know, they’ve been told enough times for a considerable time. Which is why, I said they could have had a another team at one of those studios they already owned before a lot of these acquisitions, to prepare to bring something out for that launch period as well as Halo Infinite. Halo gets delayed? “Well we got this coming, showing off the capabilities of the box” see what I’m getting at?
If you’re more excited for BC than newer stuff, fine, no problem. As I said, I’m not against it, why the hell would anyone? It’s not something I believe should be a strong focal point for a considerable time leading up to the launch of s new system. It’s a layer, one of many for a platform. “Look at all this impressive new stuff we got for our 500 dollar box and all your favourites will play on it too”
MrFunSocks
Banned
You’re overestimating the importance of having first party games to show off a console at launch. There are a dozen multiplatform and 3rd party games to do that, along with a dozen X enhanced XB1 games. Gears 5s update is basically the same level or a bigger update than miles morales is.
On the multiple team thing, it sounds easy to say but it’s not easy building a second AAA team. Where are the people coming from to do it? Despite what GAF thinks, AAA games that are good aren’t easy to make. You can’t just pluck top tier devs from thin air. That’s why they bought zenimax - it’s the most cost effective way of getting tried and proven devs. The IP is just a (massive) bonus. You don’t just get people that make Skyrim from the unemployment line.
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digoutyoursoul
Member
I disagree, I don’t think I’m overestimating mate. The way I look at it is, first party leads by example, studios dedicated to your platform and showing off the box. Third party then follow.
I’m a little surprised MS never considered or went for a Ryse type game, a Crytek or someone like that to make something for launch/going into 2021 whilst these new studios make their stuff.
MrFunSocks
Banned
That’s your opinion, fair enough, but it hasn’t really worked that way for generations. Again, PS4 - second best selling game console of all time, pitiful almost non existent first party support for 12+ months. Xbox One had far superior and far more first party games and it got trounced from day one. Brand name and price is king, not who makes the games.
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digoutyoursoul
Member
Yes we’ve already discussed the first 12 months. It’s clear we don’t agree on some things so I’ll leave it now. I’ve made my points and so have you. Have a good one .
I agree with you, its a lackluster launch catalogue, but BC, especially right now on first year, is going to be something very significant.
It was Sony who made it standard, every PS2 has BC, which is a selling point as PS1 owners could sell their consoles for the new one, every beggining of new generation you have a lack of games for a year/ year and half , the PS3 also had it...
But then they cut the PS2 BC on the PS3 less than 12 months later for cost saving measures and these models started to be sold used with a higher price, while the Xbox 360 had it since its launch for half of the OG Xbox games by emulation. Sure enough it had its pros and cons, not all were compatible and the list grew over the time, games received a resolution bump and sometimes even the framerate was better, but on the other hand it only works with HDD in and many games had small to big issues, still, it was there for its whole life.
So what Sony did? Years later they decided to create something called "Remasters" collections which were PS2 games with resolution and FPS bumps and sold them for 40 bucks, and then, they created the whole PS2 Classics thing which were PS2 emulated games sold on the store, disc owners had no right to download it for free, that means they were pretty much selling the removed feature for each game.
Now in the current generation (we are still until 10 and 12 november) neither console had BC from the start, that means people had to keep their old gen consoles to play what they didn't play yet and were awaiting. Then in 2015, Microsoft decides to introduce it as an emulated feature while adding games over the time, a move that was acclaimed by everyone, then two years later for the OG Xbox. Disc owners can download the titles for free, not all games (far from that) are BC, but all of them ran very well with zero issues compared to the X360, in fact, they always ran better, and with the One X, some ran at 4K and 16X Anisotropic Filtering.
Meanwhile, Sony decided to sell a few PS2 titles AGAIN on PS4, no right to a free download for disc owners, many people asked for Sony to bring the feature for free.
And now we are reaching the next generation and only Xbox Series X had marketed its Backwards Compability feature all around, working with all Xbox One games (sadly except for kinect only ones which like 95% didn't have) including its X360 and OG Xbox BC titles, this mean that for the first time ever since 2006 properly (or 2005 counting on the launch list of bc titles for the X360) consumers can pass on their old consoles because the newer ones will be compatible with their games, no need to keep it. While Sony, with their rich history of best selling consoles and titles, is only offering for PS4 games.
It was Sony who made it standard, every PS2 has BC, which is a selling point as PS1 owners could sell their consoles for the new one, every beggining of new generation you have a lack of games for a year/ year and half , the PS3 also had it...
But then they cut the PS2 BC on the PS3 less than 12 months later for cost saving measures and these models started to be sold used with a higher price, while the Xbox 360 had it since its launch for half of the OG Xbox games by emulation. Sure enough it had its pros and cons, not all were compatible and the list grew over the time, games received a resolution bump and sometimes even the framerate was better, but on the other hand it only works with HDD in and many games had small to big issues, still, it was there for its whole life.
So what Sony did? Years later they decided to create something called "Remasters" collections which were PS2 games with resolution and FPS bumps and sold them for 40 bucks, and then, they created the whole PS2 Classics thing which were PS2 emulated games sold on the store, disc owners had no right to download it for free, that means they were pretty much selling the removed feature for each game.
Now in the current generation (we are still until 10 and 12 november) neither console had BC from the start, that means people had to keep their old gen consoles to play what they didn't play yet and were awaiting. Then in 2015, Microsoft decides to introduce it as an emulated feature while adding games over the time, a move that was acclaimed by everyone, then two years later for the OG Xbox. Disc owners can download the titles for free, not all games (far from that) are BC, but all of them ran very well with zero issues compared to the X360, in fact, they always ran better, and with the One X, some ran at 4K and 16X Anisotropic Filtering.
Meanwhile, Sony decided to sell a few PS2 titles AGAIN on PS4, no right to a free download for disc owners, many people asked for Sony to bring the feature for free.
And now we are reaching the next generation and only Xbox Series X had marketed its Backwards Compability feature all around, working with all Xbox One games (sadly except for kinect only ones which like 95% didn't have) including its X360 and OG Xbox BC titles, this mean that for the first time ever since 2006 properly (or 2005 counting on the launch list of bc titles for the X360) consumers can pass on their old consoles because the newer ones will be compatible with their games, no need to keep it. While Sony, with their rich history of best selling consoles and titles, is only offering for PS4 games.
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Neo_game
Member
BC is a good thing. I think they just want to cling on the hardcore xbox fans. Though having even a 5yrs old PC would make it irrelevant. On PC you can have 60, 120fps easily depending on the specs but unless there is a mod for it older titles look dated. So I am big fan of classic, popular old gen games remake with something like RT, gfx, fps upgrades.
SpecialAgentZ
Member
I see the Xbox Series as I see a PC, game wise. Library building upon library, games from all generations in a single machine. Play a game today, replay 15 years from now because the next machine will run it as well, rendering it in current TV resolution and even with some upgrades in image quality and filters. I think it's great.
iamvin22
Industry Verified
Did Ms make great games this gen?
Halo is Back
Member
You sound really upset, maybe some people still like having access to many of their favorite games from the past ready to just pop in and play. I know Im not alone in this feeling and its just a nice feature man. At least MS finally did this on launch, unlike its predecessor.
Tschumi
Member
It's an Xbox narrative they pushed when they realised they couldn't win an exclusives battle with Sony and had to focus on providing perceived better value. They doubled down on it after Infinite for obvious reasons.
Good news is, PS5 reviews have only been released for a few days, i think they're focusing on comparisons first but will get into more specific stuff sooner or later.
Good news is, PS5 reviews have only been released for a few days, i think they're focusing on comparisons first but will get into more specific stuff sooner or later.
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Krappadizzle
Member
I don't think there's anyone that would say that Sony doesn't have incredibly strong exclusives, they plain do. PS4 released some of the best games ever made. But there's room for both. Hell, there's room for all 3 major players. And BC isn't ANYTHING to scoff at. I've been major on all console but still consider myself a PC player and I can't WAIT to get a 3080 so I can play a bunch of games I've already spent hundreds of hours playing, Control, Metro:Exodus, Assassin's Creed, Watch Dogs, hell, even so far back as Quake 2. If you wanna pretend the only way to have a great time playing videogames is always looking forward than your are gonna let a lot of incredible experiences just pass you by. And that's fine for some, but it's not a zero-sum game and there's room for everyone to play. I can't wait to play a bunch of old shit, I'm excited to play so many GREAT and INCREDIBLE NEW games that are coming out on the horizon for ALL the incredible hardware configurations. It's such a great time to be a gamer and there are so many great choices for everyone on the spectrum.
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S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Bravo MS XB division
Tschumi
Member
Thank you very much for taking the time to talk to me at length.
I am not saying BC isn't legitimate, i love chances to enjoy limited BC on my PS3, PS vita~ never in my life, however, have i considered replaying an older game I've completed more entertaining than cold playing, for instance, it's sequel (if it's good). I'm saying the huge focus on BC by xbox is a symptom of their lack of other things to focus on.
For the record, I've said a number of times in the past that I'm sure xBox will start having other things to talk about just as soon as their newly purchased developers can make them.. I'm sure one day we'll see the xsx fully taken advantage of... But yeah, at the moment they're deliberately distracting their fans away from.. what that Xbox fan YouTuber said.. there's no really compelling reason to spend $500 on an XSX right now, kinda thing.
At least, that's what I figure~
Krappadizzle
Member
Happy to. Even if I'm just giving my shitty opinon.
I think you have a fair assessment tbh. I don't feel that either system has completely compelling reason to be a day 1 purchase, but I do think that you are right and that MSFT has kind of shifted the narrative because even if there 3rd party games are great, they don't have the best 1st party games making it a must-have. But I still think that BC, especially if it takes advantage and can give you 60fps and substantially shorter load times has a place now because we have so many great games that have released in just 2020 alone not to mention years previous. PS5 has a better intial offering, but I don't feel like Spiderman and Demon Souls are hitting my "must-have" buttons like they maybe would have in the past simply because I've played those games. I know they'll look and run beautifully, but I know what I'm getting. It's not hitting the "brand-new" smell that I usually love with new hardware. Doesn't make those games or experiences bad in the slightest. I can't wait to eventually get to them, but for me it's a known quantity. The fact that they can both do BC well is a major boon for everyone. I can't wait to eventually go through Ghost of Tsushima and Day's Gone at 60 fps, not to mention my love for the scenarios TLOUII can put you in even if I take umbrage with it's story.. It's plain gonna be a fuckin' good time.
I think no matter what piece of plastic you buy, that it's gonna be a treat regardless. Maybe not the freshest and newest experiences, but a really stellar time regardless. Gun to my had and I had to pick a system, I'd probably pick the PS5, but it doesn't bug me in the slightest to not have either on release like it maybe would have in the past. Though, I'm becoming an ol' curmudgeon in my old age. So my enthusiasm may not be as high as someone freshly on the train and it's totally fine and probably fun as hell to be on that train at the moment.
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megreotsugua
Banned
Xbox will soon become irrelevant. As soon as Bethesda release another one of their buggy mediocre games, it's over for MS. They should just concentrate on PC and buy Steam.
Mexen
Member
On one hand, your current library can still be accessed on new tech and in some cases with improved performance.
On the other hand, it's the start of a new generation so the new games specifically built for the system are inevitable.
This makes this approach an overall win. However, for the few who have completely exhausted their libraries, it's a bit of a bummer.
MS goal seems to be playerbase expansion.
On the other hand, it's the start of a new generation so the new games specifically built for the system are inevitable.
This makes this approach an overall win. However, for the few who have completely exhausted their libraries, it's a bit of a bummer.
MS goal seems to be playerbase expansion.
MrFunSocks
Banned
Absolutely. They might not be to your tastes but not everyone likes the same things. Personally I don’t like a single game Sony made because I don’t like single player cinematic “experiences”. That’s not to say the Sony games aren’t great games, just that they’re not my type of games. Anyone saying ms don’t make great games too is either trolling, has very limited taste, or is personally invested in a console.
turtlepowa
Banned
Launch exclusives didn't help Microsoft in 2013, they won't hurt them in 2020. In 2013 they had 5-6 launch exclusives while Sony had 2-3 if i remember correctly. In the end the One was too weak for core gamers and too expensive for casuals. This gen Microsoft has the strongest and the cheapest console. I think besides lots of whining/concering from people that wouldn't buy a Xbox even if Sencer held their families hostage it won't be not a big deal that Xbox has 0 launch exclusives while Sony has a current gen standalone dlc and a prettified PS3 game for 80-100 bucks.
pasterpl
Member
Bc became important as both platform holders are missing next gen content (There are 3 first party next gen games between these 2 platforms, and all are on Sony platform). Unless you count in bugsnax, sack boy and astrobot in (it will be six then) there is only cross gen Spider-Man and remake of 11 years old game (played it on my ps3, and I don’t have a habit of replaying games so ds have 0 interest to me), and the only new next gen game is godfall. I said it multiple times, this generation launch is horrible in terms of content.
Jadsey
Member
BC is just a bunch of games I have already played or a bunch of games I didn't want to play in the first place!
Waste of time.
Luckily PlayStation fans focus on new premium new content.
Others seem to be obsessed about being able to load old games 2 seconds faster or paying a monthly fee to have a selection of mediocre filler, then claiming they get it for free!
It's baffling to me.
Waste of time.
Luckily PlayStation fans focus on new premium new content.
Others seem to be obsessed about being able to load old games 2 seconds faster or paying a monthly fee to have a selection of mediocre filler, then claiming they get it for free!
It's baffling to me.
sircaw
Banned
Let's be honest, its all Microsoft has atm, they fucked up this release terribly. To many chips in Halo.
It's even going to get worse the next few years with R+c and a new god of war coming.
Bc will work here and for the hardcore but for the masses, they want new shiny things to play with.
Another good thing is Ps5 bc is rather excellent as well, everyone saw Dark from digital foundry's tweet. so its not like Sony have a dud there.
It's even going to get worse the next few years with R+c and a new god of war coming.
Bc will work here and for the hardcore but for the masses, they want new shiny things to play with.
Another good thing is Ps5 bc is rather excellent as well, everyone saw Dark from digital foundry's tweet. so its not like Sony have a dud there.
ToadMan
Member
Ita not a bonus though. It’s being marketed as a major reason to upgrade. This last month Xsex was in the hands of marketers only allowed to talk BC titles.
It’s letting console and game makers off the hook to support their product in a timely way. That in turn will slow down innovation, delay people upgrading to new hardware and in turn hold back quality of new games.
If there was no BC you can bet MS would have put out something first party for launch. Instead they’re putting out nothing and hoping the lure of old games on new hardware will sell.
Sony is doing a little better at least but even there it’s not mind blowing new stuff. Probably have to wait for R&C to be the genuine next gen launch game.
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Krappadizzle
Member
I mean...You are right. But why give a shit? It's gonna be a great place to play games. Period.
Neko Mimi Mode
Member
And it should be! Plenty of current gen (are we calling it last gen now?) games run poorly on both systems, as if they were created just to sit and wait for sufficient hardware to arrive to run them.
And gen 7 had some bangers too, many of which (The Witcher 2, Red Dead Redemption, Final Fantasy XIII trilogy etc) have been patched to 4k with other graphical enhancements that don't look out of place today at all. Kind of like free remasters, really.
No matter the bells and whistles, consoles are closer to PCs than ever before and the experience of upgrading a console will inevitably come to mimic that of upgrading a PC. There are no generations there, simply more powerful hardware capable of running the same games better.
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Hudo
Member
The console manufacturers have brought this on themselves with their focus on ecosystems and locking people into them with online accounts, digital-only purchases and games-as-a-service. If they want to keep customers locked in, they need to make that shit available on the new platforms as well. Otherwise, it's far easier for a customer to change to another ecosystem when new hardware is released.
I have not an ounce of pity for the manufacturers. They have embraced this ecosystem bullshit, now they need to live with it.
I have not an ounce of pity for the manufacturers. They have embraced this ecosystem bullshit, now they need to live with it.
Stiflers Mom
Banned
Don't hate the Snax, bro.
Damigos
Member
Its not a bonus when there is literally ZERO games on XSX which are played ONLY on XSX
prinz_valium
Member
There is literally just ONE game on Ps5 which is played ONLY on Ps5.
And that is Astro Playroom.
GametimeUK
Member
It breathes life into new games. It's the console equivalent of upgrading your PC and your old games get to look and play better when up the graphics, resolution and framerate. Prior backwards compatibility is essentially taking a step backwards in fidelity when playing BC games. Now the games are improving with the console.
Sure there wasn't a lot of talk about BC last gen, but remasters were all the rage for a while. We are getting so many upgrades without having to buy the game again in a lot of cases.
Big selling point for me on PC and now a big one on console.
Sure there wasn't a lot of talk about BC last gen, but remasters were all the rage for a while. We are getting so many upgrades without having to buy the game again in a lot of cases.
Big selling point for me on PC and now a big one on console.
