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[hybrid_birth]

it’s baffling to me that Phil Spencer has managed to lead two utter failures of generations in a row now (this one he’s entirely responsible for) yet is being given yet another chance do they really think third time’s going to be the charm under this existing leadership group?

You got to look beneath the surface man.


Have faith in the first xbox designed by the surface team.

 

[FunkMiller]

So, are people actually going to fall for this shit again?

’World’s most powerful console! (Again)’

’Only plays games that are also on weaker hardware! (Again)’

Please tell me you’re not dumb enough to fall for it twice…

 

[Robb]

I was hoping they’d say something more interesting than this whole ‘more power’ spiel.

If they want me to purchase their next box they’re going to need some other selling point. Bring on something unexpected and new.

 

[twilo99]

Sarah said largest leap ever in terms of perf.

Xbone to Series X, in sheer FP32 numbers is 9.2X, despite being different architectures and RDNA2 has a massive gains over Polaris/GCN.

Just to get the message across to the layman, it's at least 9.2X or more, let's round it off at 10X.

120 TFLOPS ZEN5 + RDNA5, with architectural gains and efficiency, and this sounds like a pipe dream on an alien planet if the target for this console is $500. @HeisenbergFX4 please tell me my math is wrong and I can go back to sleep.

Zero chance for the top end hardware to be less than $600-700 …

 

[Dr.Morris79]

Can't wait for another 'The Super Duper Graphics' trailer for Minecraft..

 

[Rivet]

Nothing makes sense here. With diminishing returns we already have trouble seeing the difference with PS4 / Xbox One games right now, it will only get worse. Impressive technical gaps are a thing of the past.

Then there's the question of who would buy that. Now that Xbox games are starting to come on other platforms, while hardware sales were already pretty low before the new strategy, why would you buy that instead of the competitor platform that will basically get every game ?

Unless you absolutely want to play every Xbox game day 1, more than anything else. But the target seems to be a pretty small group of gamers.

 

[FunkMiller]

If they want me to purchase their next box they’re going to need some other selling point. Bring on something unexpected and new.

‘Our unique next console is being designed to play games that you can’t play anywhere else, including PC. It will have 100% exclusive games’.

That’s the only statement that will ever get me to buy an Xbox again.

 

[Stuart360]

Nothing makes sense here. With diminishing returns we already have trouble seeing the difference with PS4 / Xbox One games right now, it will only get worse. Impressive technical gaps are a thing of the past.

Then there's the question of who would buy that. Now that Xbox games are starting to come on other platforms, while hardware sales were already pretty low before the new strategy, why would you buy that instead of the competitor platform that will basically get every game ?

Unless you absolutely want to play every Xbox game day 1, more than anything else. But the target seems to be a pretty small group of gamers.

To be honest i'd like to see a super high end console at a high price, just to see how good or bad something like that would sell.

You're right though about diminishing returns, but if a super high end console could produce graphics like Hellblade 2 for example at native 4k and 60fps, i think it would pull a few punters in.

I have a feeling that they will go super high end with the console, and have a steam deck style handheld, maybe one that could stream those high end games from the console, while also playing your Xbox library you already own natively.

 

[SNG32]

If this next gen console has steam I’m all in. If it’s just a next gen Xbox gamepass console they can get the fuck outta here with that. Like seriously the hardware isn’t the issue it’s the fucking games.

Like I don’t get why they gotta resort to new hardware all the gotdamn time.

 

[StereoVsn]

You got to look beneath the surface man.


Have faith in the first xbox designed by the surface team.

Yeah, it’s going to be amazing!

• Underpowered
• Outdated
• Undercooled
• Hard to service
• Overpriced

I mean what’s not to like!

 

[DeepEnigma]

So, are people actually going to fall for this shit again?

’World’s most powerful console! (Again)’

’Only plays games that are also on weaker hardware! (Again)’

Please tell me you’re not dumb enough to fall for it twice…

Oh, oh, we are. It's masochism at this point.

 

[StereoVsn]

Nothing makes sense here. With diminishing returns we already have trouble seeing the difference with PS4 / Xbox One games right now, it will only get worse. Impressive technical gaps are a thing of the past.

Then there's the question of who would buy that. Now that Xbox games are starting to come on other platforms, while hardware sales were already pretty low before the new strategy, why would you buy that instead of the competitor platform that will basically get every game ?

Unless you absolutely want to play every Xbox game day 1, more than anything else. But the target seems to be a pretty small group of gamers.

And the thing is that the latter target group already exists.. on PC side.

So it would have to be Xbox Day 1 crowd that’s console only.

 

[Pelta88]

The spin cycle continues.

 

[Audiophile]

I really hope MS and god forbid even Sony don't try to follow Ninty and wrangle their primary next gen machines into a similar hybrid handheld setup.

You can scale resolution, fps and fx; but fundamental game design, simulation and function will require certain baseline capabilities which may be gimped during handheld/undocked use.

Series S is bad enough in this respect.

I'd rather see a dedicated system:

- XB Handheld with Local Play for Xbox/360/X1, 'Remote Play' via XS/XS2, Cloud Play for Xbox/360/X1/XS, Windows-PC Sandbox & dedicated native games.
- PS Handheld with Local Play for PS1/PS2/PS4/PSP/PSVita, Remote Play via PS4/PS5/PS6, Cloud Play for PS1/PS2/PS3/PS4/PS5 & dedicated native games.

 

[March Climber]

Phil maybe teases ditching AMD (his Lisa Su comment), I don't know if that matters in terms of raw power, weren't there rumours of next Xbox using the apple M chip sets or whatever?

…And suddenly, just like that, thousands of Xbox games were no longer backwards compatible.

 

[mitch1971]

We starting this early are we?

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

Since I'm already digital on Xbox, I might just choose that next system, depending on if PlayStation goes all digital next gen as well. If we have the same choices for media we still have now, my preference will be:

1. PS6 with disc drive
2. Xbox Next all digital

Don't think I'll be buying both next gen, but I will get a Super Switch/Switch 2.

 

[Kacho]

16 x the amount of power!

I’d wait for them to quantify the leap in power before getting too excited. This is the same team that repeatedly said the latest E3 would be their biggest yet.

 

[Sleepwalker]

Literally just offer people a monthly payment option and they will break sales record. Sony should do it too.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

The largest technical leap in a generation? Sorry, that's impossible. Those massive jumps happened like decades ago.

Maybe they push the envelope on trying to get cutting edge top of the line GPUs in there. But you're gonna now be paying like $1200+ for an Xbox

 

[twilo99]

Literally just offer people a monthly payment option and they will break sales record. Sony should do it too.

Sony would have the most upside with a model like that..

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

This isn't exclusive for Microsoft, it goes for Sony as well: 10th-gen consoles that are just more of the same but "MOAR POWAHFUUL TEWWORFLOPZ!" and prettier graphics...will fail.

Or at least see a decline in lifetime sales. More enthusiasts who genuinely care about that are jumping to PC. Casual and mainstream gamers don't care that much about power, so a new Nintendo system, smartphone or tablet will get them their gaming fix, especially since more 3P console games are releasing on those platforms than ever before (same with them on PC).

That only leaves most of the core and some of the hardcore genuinely interested in such consoles, but they don't make up the majority of the customer base. Next-gen systems need new, real, substantive hooks to go along with (respectable) performance increases. At least in my opinion, they do.

For Microsoft, that probably means leaning more into PC-like hardware scalability and open-platform features. For Sony, that probably means affordable integrated VR (with light AR) headset by default for immersion purposes. They should primarily build their systems around that and get the power increases where it makes sense while keeping production manageable.

But it's also very likely both of them screw up and it's just "more of the same".

 

[Raonak]

Pretty clear that it's only the "Biggest Leap" because xbox is skipping pro consoles.

In any case, an even more powerful PS6 will come out shortly after.

 

[M1chl]

Another hype thread I see many pages of very peak of hardware and software experts gathering to share their meaningful thoughts

 

[FIREKNIGHT2029]

Whatever console they release in a few years runs the risk of being Dreamcasted hard by the PS5 if they launch too early. Whatever they do they need to be careful they don't run into the trap of abandoning this gen too early and jumping into the next gen as people will ignore them and wait for the more powerful PS6. At this point, they've lost mindshare and most people aren't interested in Xbox or a new super powerful Xbox. They need to deliver some great games before then gen is over otherwise the few number of people interested in Xbox this gen could dwindle even further next gen for them.

 

[Beechos]

Literally just offer people a monthly payment option and they will break sales record. Sony should do it too.

Ms does have that xbox all access to finance a xbox with gamepass. Wonder how successful that program has been? It was touted as a game changer by alot of places during the console launch. I'm guessing it hasn't been all that impressive with no communication touting its success.

 

[TransTrender]

XBox figured this would be easier and more effective than getting Bethesda to dump the Creation Engine.

 

[nick776]

$999 consoles is the way to go. People pay that every year on new phones for text messages and instragram.

Think about an ultra powerful (for a console at least) Xbox that cost ~$1k and also LAUNCHES with Gears 6 and a New Halo. I think that would be meaningful.

 

[Zannegan]

> Ultrapowerful

> Handheld

Pick one.

Smart money is on the handheld/hybrid, TBH. Follow Nintendo into their wacky world and see what happens.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

The handheld then streams your games or is another 'S' boat anchor in spec disparity for native games.

So revolutionary. We don't have those now or anything.

This is what Microsoft is going to do:

1. The Next-Gen "S" will be even LESS relatively powerful than the current S is versus the X. It will effectively be a dock. Very cheap price, maybe $249 or less.

2. The "S" Dock will have a separate (and/or bundled) screen and controller to play as a handheld. This will cost an additional $150-200.

3. The Next-Gen "X" will be a gaming rig style PC with a few options scaling to the very high end. These will start at $800+

So, in terms of power gulf it will be massive. Sadly, I also think Sony may be trending in this direction too if the rumored handheld is true. The only way Sony will pursue a handheld is if it's compatible with all PS6 games

 

[Kusarigama]

By next gen, all their games can go multiplatform and they'll announce an expensive very high spec console for enthusiasts and market it as the "Best place to Play" their games.

 

[Topher]

It is going to be interesting to see by what metrics Microsoft comes up with to back up this claim. I can damn well guarantee that you won't be able to point to that technological leap like you could from PS1 to PS2.

I don't think Sarah Bond is doing herself any favors by pitching their next console like this. Not starting out too great there, Sarah.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

It is going to be interesting to see by what metrics Microsoft comes up with to back up this claim. I can damn well guarantee that you won't be able to point to that technological leap like you could from PS1 to PS2.

I don't think Sarah Bond is doing herself any favors by pitching their next console like this. Not starting out too great there, Sarah.

Nothing will beat the era from 2D - 3D. A transformational leap.

 

[Guerilla Munch]

Where are the fucking games? Series X is already the most powerful console and nobody wants one because almost all the best exclusives are on Playstation.

And LOL at the idea of Microsoft releasing a portable to compete with Switch 2 or a second/third gen Steam Deck. LMAO even.

How anyone in management still has a job is absolutely mind-blowing to me.

 

[thismeinteil]

MS, why would you give them another shot after 2 complete failures? I guess they're trying to go by the 3 strikes and you're out rule?

You're already putting exclusives on PS5/Switch 1/2. It just makes your HW even more redundant. And if you really are going for a very expensive HUGE leap, people will just buy PCs. If it's just an overhyped standard console, people will just wait a year or two for the more powerful PS6. Your games are probably going to be on it, anyway.

If they're sticking with the plan for an always online "you own nothing" box, good luck with that. PS can just make another "How To Share Games" vid. And what's with putting the Surface team, who to my knowledge have never worked on a console, in charge of its development. Yea, I'm sure that'll go well.

Just stick a fork in the HW, it's done.

 

[plip.plop]

I think they are going to come with two SKU's

1- The Handheld which can run 1080p 120fps or 4k 60 fps dlss (just a guess) more likely 1080p 60fpsr 4k 30fps dlss

2 - docking station with built-in GPU for added performance boost. think of the RAZER Core X.

mouse and keyboard support on most games in docked mode, as well as streamlining game pass as the PC and console lines continue to blur.

 

[LordBlodgett]

If they had a 600-700 dollar extra powerful console I would be there day one. Unfortunately I feel like they would probably only sell a few million, making it not worth the whole. A handheld with about the same power as a Series S at 399 would probably do pretty damn well though

 

[meech]

> Ultrapowerful

> Handheld

Pick one.

One does not exlude the other if they actually dont have a dumb dock like Nintendo, but one with a powerfull gpu for example.

 

[IAmRei]

I think it dont need to be most powerful, i think it need great games library, fine battery, doesnt sounds like jet, and the last is value why people should go there.

 

[Dr.D00p]

Whatever it is they need to stuff it to the gills with dedicated, custom hardware for full RT & PT.

 

[nashman]

2023 -"We're not in the business of out-consoling Sony or out-consoling Nintendo," Spencer said.

2024- "Ultra powerfull next-gen console coming guys!"(to compete with PS6) "Heck maybe even a handheld!"(to compete with Switch2)

 

[twilo99]

i'm starting to think that a handheld is actually coming...

 

[twilo99]

If they had a 600-700 dollar extra powerful console I would be there day one. Unfortunately I feel like they would probably only sell a few million, making it not worth the whole. A handheld with about the same power as a Series S at 399 would probably do pretty damn well though

There will be a lot of buyers up to $1000... beyond that, not so much

 

[FunkMiller]

2023 -"We're not in the business of out-consoling Sony or out-consoling Nintendo," Spencer said.

2024- "Ultra powerfull next-gen console coming guys!"(to compete with PS6) "Heck maybe even a handheld!"(to compete with Switch2)

Their messaging is as confusing and unfocused as ever. I've never had the impression they've had a concrete strategy they stick to.

 

[skit_data]

I can't see how this "largest technical leap ever" working out unless its

A. Some clever wording around the hybrid cloud compute compute from the leaks. That one is interesting.
B. They went balls to the wall high end components, which will be expensive. Also interesting.

Hoping to see some differentiation at least. Both going to AMD to get what is almost the same console as is boring.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Skip the handheld. I know mobile, Switch and Steam Decks are the rage for years, but I say focus on a good console.

I dont see them releasing a handheld that has pared down games. So it'd be a Steam Deck kind of competitor and/or Xbox streaming handheld? Forget it. Let Deck and those PC handhelds have it.

 

[mckmas8808]

lol The leaps are getting smaller and smaller. We would be lucky to get a 40 tflops console in 2027. Thats less than 4x leap. These people need to understand how to set expectations.

I think I saw someone say that a PS6 in 2028 would more than likely be 50 TFs. That's what any company should be shooting for with a next-gen console. With a Zen5 proc and 32 GBs of stack RAM.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Because that is not how it works… we have seen it again with XSX and XSS. We see it with PC, one of the two extremes gets screwed over or held back.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

lol The leaps are getting smaller and smaller. We would be lucky to get a 40 tflops console in 2027. Thats less than 4x leap. These people need to understand how to set expectations.

To me, it's not even about TF leaps anymore. But what we see and play with our own eyes and hands.

A system can be 100 TF, but if the improved res, RTX, frame rates, animation and AI logic are barely better looking by people's eyes, it really makes no difference.

If a system is 4x faster at 40 TF, so what does a game studio do? Most games now are basically 60 fps (or close enough without taking into account drops to 50 fps). Check.

So with 4x power, a studio can do a combo of higher res (if anyone wants to do 8k res), 120 fps standard, more rtx, better textures etc.... So depending on the game, their priority features and the talent making the game, that 4x bump maybe does hardly anything. It's like someone at home buying a commercial grade oven. Its got the power and features to make restaurant quality cooking, but if the person doesn't or cant take advantage of the power boost and triple the cooking space, then it makes no difference than if he made the food in a budget brand.

 

[Diddy X]

I see they want to sell more variety of devices so they can grow the GP userbase, High-end Xbox, weaker cheaper Xbox and handheld, I see it.