Bolivar687
Banned
It may have been DF saying how Xbox games that were running at half the framerate from the PS4 version were more consistent.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
What's wrong with Digital Foundry?
- Thread starter VFXVeteran
- Start date
It may have been DF saying how Xbox games that were running at half the framerate from the PS4 version were more consistent.
And that's the answer I was waiting for.
So let's recap shall we?
• You claim that people were complaining of DF being biased towards MS long before we knew which console had better specs.
• I disputed that claim.
• You countered that I was moving the goalpost, and stood your ground.
• I inquired as to when the complaining started on such a wide scale then.
• You provided the Gears 5 example, and admitted to not really knowing of any wide scale complaints prior to that.
And so my point has been further proven. The wide scale complaints of DF being biased towards MS started shortly after we learned which console had better specs.
Just because you've attempted to move the goalpost to the XSX/PS5 specs, doesn't mean I have to buy it. The goalpost shall remain firmly planted where it began...
The wide scale complaints began shortly after we learned which console had the better specs. Those consoles being the PS4Pro and XB1X. Prior to that, DF was a perfectly reputable reviewer who's integrity could not be questioned.
This whole accusation of DF being biased has no basis in truth. As has already been pointed out, there has been no proof or evidence provided that shows a clear bias towards MS. Only instances of opinion.
Source?
DiddyKongRacing69
Member
Digital Foundry sometimes makes my console of choice look bad graphically compared to the other console. Never mind that neither of you will notice any difference actual difference.
Last edited:
pyrocro
Member
Exactly.
They don't call it SonyGaf for nothing.
Bolivar687
Banned
You can read some of it in the written review:
Next-Gen Face-Off: Tomb Raider Definitive Edition
Square Enix has remade last year's Tomb Raider for PS4 and Xbox One. Could one version be more definitive than the other?
www.eurogamer.net
In any case, I do remember some folks on GAF taking issue with that, trying to find a silver lining in a sub-30 fps game.
Chiggs
Member
Because they have no relevant industry experience, talk out their rear, and moonlight as pros for the gaggle of morons that support them? They also stoke the console wars more than any other group in existence.
They also have no real competition, which seems to be coming to an end (thankfully).
Last edited:
TheGreatWhiteShark
Member
WatDat
Banned
Have you completed TLOU2 yet?
You can read some of it in the written review:
Next-Gen Face-Off: Tomb Raider Definitive Edition
Square Enix has remade last year's Tomb Raider for PS4 and Xbox One. Could one version be more definitive than the other?
In any case, I do remember some folks on GAF taking issue with that, trying to find a silver lining in a sub-30 fps game.
Did you happen to re-read that article by any chance? Having read through it again, it only strengthens the case of DF not being biased. The article repeatedly claims that the PS4 version is superior. Even when specifically referring to the framerates. It clearly points out the advantages of the PS4. To suggest bias there because they happen to mention that the xbox version has a more stable framerate vs the PS4 version isn't helping the assertion of bias at all. The XB1 is between mid 20's to 30fps, and the PS4 version is between 40-60fps.
So the only rational conclusion that can be drawn, is that in order for DF to be unbiased, they must omit factual data from their articles when it casts the Playstion in an unfavorable light.
I apologize to everyone here as apparently my whole concept of bias was completely wrong. I thought it meant to not show favor for one over the other. My mistake.
Edit: My apologies for directing this at Bolivar. Poor form on my part.
Last edited:
Chiggs
Member
I got 6 hours in, but work projects came up and I couldn't finish. What was there was decent, but the storytelling is a bit of a mess (cannot stand flashbacks), which admittedly put me off to it. Top marks for customization and visuals, even if the latter is all fake and bake lighting.
Bolivar687
Banned
I'm only telling you what GAF latched onto at the time.
For sure. That wasn't lost on me, and I do apologize for that.
I meant that reply as more directed at those who were claiming bias, but directed it towards you. My apologies my man, me shooting the messenger is poor taste.
Explosive Zombie
Banned
1. I did claim that and I was right
2. You didn't
3. I never mentioned you shifting a goalpost.
4. "Such a wide scale" is both nebulous and a goalpost shift, you claim to have disputed MY CLAIM that DF has been accused of bias on here long before the spec reveals but I didn't use terminology like "wide scale", so you haven't disputed me... this is an actual goalpost shift.
5. I didn't admit to not knowing of any, I said I was generally a lurker and in general threads where they compare two games directly cause a fuss. I did not cite specific examples but anyone who posts here and has posted here for years can tell you there's always been arguments about DF bias, I even gave you an example of perceived bias people argued over that dates back to the beginning of this console generation.
6. Your point hasn't been proven, even if you were right that I have shown lack of evidence of past accusations of bias (you weren't) that does not prove your point. Can you explain what wide scale refers to exactly? You have not given us your qualifications for what suits wide scale.
7. Um... what? I didn't move any goalpost, you're the one who's arguing this began after the spec reveal, I'm arguing you're wrong.
8. How many times are you going to contradict yourself? Oh now it's the PS4 Pro vs XB1X!!! Wow, are you for real? This went from the wide scale accusations of bias began with XSX/PS5 specs and shifted to PS4Pro/XB1X? That would be a long time this has been going on then, which was my argument.
9. They have never been beyond question, ever and such an argument is absolutely farcical. https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-xbox-one-vs-ps4-year-one
Try out this article where they have to admit on paper PS4 is superior but shift the focus to a lack of "truly entertaining games" something which was never part of their purview. They always try to find a way to bash Sony in some way, you'll never hear them criticize the GAMEPLAY of a Microsoft game they're praising because they're there for TECHNICAL ANALYSIS.
Um, what? Everyone has bias, it's a question of degree of bias. No one has pointed this out, you just choose to believe one argument over another. There has been plenty of evidence but you chose to ignore it. "Only instances of opinion" - yeah all opinion is founded in some form of bias. Your post is absolute bullshit.
Explosive Zombie
Banned
ABSOLUTE PROOF YOU WERE ARGUING ABOUT PS5/XSX to contrast against your latest post attempting to pretend you claimed this all began with PS4 Pro/XB1X, this is such disingenuous horseshit.
Physiognomonics
Member
You can always manipulate data. Mainly by doing cherry picking. But they are also not consistent depending of the game. They harshly critic some stuff in some games only, they give praises for others stuff in some others games, etc.
But most importantly they are journalists as they mostly write their own analysis. And journalists, while presenting mostly true facts, have countless of techniques in order to push some agenda. And all journalists have some kind of agenda. All of them.
Last edited:
Well that's a wall of mess isn't it.
You claimed someone's post wasn't credible due to complaints being a thing before we knew which console had the better hardware. (You didn't mention which hardware or specs)
I said that was false. (It was.)
You claimed I moved the goalpost and I quote "long before this goalpost you've set up. (Which you now deny)
Look, you know what? It's not worth the effort. Me having to basically repeat myself because you can't comprehend words.
The fact remains that you claim that the complaints began long before we knew which console would have the better hardware. You didn't specify that it was the XSX/PS5.
I claimed that the complaints only became widespread after we knew the XB1X had better hardware than the PS4Pro.
My statement is factually correct.
Yours is not.
End of story.
Explosive Zombie
Banned
Well that's a wall of mess isn't it.
You claimed someone's post wasn't credible due to complaints being a thing before we knew which console had the better hardware. (You didn't mention which hardware or specs)
I said that was false. (It was.)
You claimed I moved the goalpost and I quote "long before this goalpost you've set up. (Which you now deny)
Look, you know what? It's not worth the effort. Me having to basically repeat myself because you can't comprehend words.
The fact remains that you claim that the complaints began long before we knew which console would have the better hardware. You didn't specify that it was the XSX/PS5.
I claimed that the complaints only became widespread after we knew the XB1X had better hardware than the PS4Pro.
My statement is factually correct.
Yours is not.
End of story.
I'm just going to report you for being a disingenuous troll and see if the mods sort it out, honestly.
If it's absolute proof why did I specifically not mention PS5/XSX?
Another tell was the niceness of my replies. I'm usually a bit more blunt than that.
Either way, if you couldn't see the set up, that's not on me. I just wanted to see if I could sway you into proving my point from the beginning. It took a post or two more than expected, but you gladly took the bait, and proved my point.
Thanks for playing.
And is amazed by anything on Switch...
Explosive Zombie
Banned
No, look at the quotes, you claim it began more recently, you claim you don't recall it happening BEFORE the Gears 5 analysis, the Gears 5 analysis was LAST YEAR, long after the PS4 Pro/X1X spec reveals, obviously. But good on you for admitting you were setting up bait and not engaging in an honest manner.
Okay, I'm sure to get banned as a result. Why proving you wrong is ban worthy is beyond me, but it's all good.
Have a good one fellas.
LittleBigGamer
Banned
You can present data to look like trash and the same data as paradise.
Ok this is hyperbole but you get the point.
Explosive Zombie
Banned
I expect the mods to look over the entire conversation and see that you go from thinking claims of DF bias barely existed before the Gears 5 analysis to claiming it began with PS4 Pro/X1X, which are contradictory statements and even upon proving you've changed your view through these statements you stick by the idea you proved me wrong. You're not behaving in an honest manner, even going so far as to claim you were setting bait, that's not how discussions work, we don't bait other people by letting them think we mean something we didn't. If your goal is simply to score points by being right and not have a dialogue who can blame the mods if they take action?
Ok fair enough.
I claim that this whole DF is biased towards MS started only after it became apparent that the XB1X was superior to the PS4Pro.
Ignoring all previous posts aside... Is my claim true or false?
Krappadizzle
Member
Found the guy who's never played Crysis.
You should give it a go, one of the best shooters ever made.
Explosive Zombie
Banned
"Another example was when a digital foundry report came out about PS4 having 4.5 to 5.5 gb available for gaming, this thread I was banned in because I believed in Digital Foundry finding, yet Bish and his “insiders” claimed that PS4 had 6gb and actually had the media believing Thuway over Digital Foundry (http://gamingbolt.com/ps4s-5-5-gb-for-games-developer-calls-rumour-false-other-sources-say-6-gb) its all there, even thuway and his “Lie”. Again Bish the moderated supported all of this, and actually gave Thuway his “insider” status that many clueless media outlets actually still report on."
Community Article- NeoGAF & it’s Bias, by Tim Dog
Community Article “NeoGAF & it’s Bias” NeoGAF is a gaming forum that at first glance is pretty simple, it’s easy to get to, and format is easy to navigate though. It is the #1 source for all of… Read more ›
rectifygaming.com
F'DUPTON 3: Back in the Tub with 5.0/5.5/6/7/several Inches of RAM-Flavoured Water
Update: We can’t go into specifics about stuff like that, but I’ll say that if you go by Eurogamer’s article “update”, it would show that PS4 provides at least as much RAM to the developer as the XB1. While Eurogamer updated theirs, Game Informer still has their...
"Another example was when a digital foundry report came out about PS4 having 4.5 to 5.5 gb available for gaming, this thread I was banned in because I believed in Digital Foundry finding, yet Bish and his “insiders” claimed that PS4 had 6gb and actually had the media believing Thuway over Digital Foundry (http://gamingbolt.com/ps4s-5-5-gb-for-games-developer-calls-rumour-false-other-sources-say-6-gb) its all there, even thuway and his “Lie”. Again Bish the moderated supported all of this, and actually gave Thuway his “insider” status that many clueless media outlets actually still report on."
Community Article- NeoGAF & it’s Bias, by Tim Dog
Community Article “NeoGAF & it’s Bias” NeoGAF is a gaming forum that at first glance is pretty simple, it’s easy to get to, and format is easy to navigate though. It is the #1 source for all of… Read more ›
F'DUPTON 3: Back in the Tub with 5.0/5.5/6/7/several Inches of RAM-Flavoured Water
Update: We can’t go into specifics about stuff like that, but I’ll say that if you go by Eurogamer’s article “update”, it would show that PS4 provides at least as much RAM to the developer as the XB1. While Eurogamer updated theirs, Game Informer still has their...www.neogaf.com
It was a simple true or false question. None of that admitted speculation was showing a bias towards MS.
That whole ordeal with bish, and cboat was a horrible mess as is. No need to try and use false insiders on imagined speculation to try and prove a point. Yet you call me disingenuous.
Explosive Zombie
Banned
It was a simple true or false question. None of that admitted speculation was showing a bias towards MS.
That whole ordeal with bish, and cboat was a horrible mess as is. No need to try and use false insiders on imagined speculation to try and prove a point. Yet you call me disingenuous.
Are you arguing those people WEREN'T arguing DF had an XBOX bias?
PropellerEar
Member
When DF does proper analysis, its often on point.
But some of their content makes you think...
Alex really didn't dare to rip MSFT a new one after the Halo infinite shit show. (That showing was an straight FU to all Xbox fans.) but hey at least it's "free" on GP and 60 FPS.
Richard claiming XSeX design revolutionary, something that changes how consoles are to be designed in the future.
(Trashcan, tired straight out of the box PC lite design, not worthy of this kind of Hyperbole BS puff piece)The travesty that was Gears 5 analysis, John read (admittedly) straight from MSFT script. Sharp eyed "amateurs" here on GAF and YouTubers like
Kingthrash
proved many things from the "Professional" analysis to be straight out lies.I'm not arguing anything at this point. I'm asking you a simple question, that for one reason or another won't answer.
Explosive Zombie
Banned
... I linked you proof this forum has been arguing DF is biased before PS4 Pro and X1X ever existed... obviously my answer is your assertion is false
tfur
Member
Well then you got me.
I looked over the first few pages and indeed I did see 3 or 4 comments that suggested DF could be biased towards MS. There were also a couple that suggested the reverse.
If only I had stipulated that these claims be wide spread.
But I didn't in that last post, so you're correct. All these complaints of DF have been going on forever. They're obviously biased.
My reason for asking that question however was to illustrate that my tactic wasn't disingenuous. You claim I was disingenuous and wouldn't have an honest discussion. What good would attempting to have an honest discussion with you result in? No matter what discussion took place, you would never admit you were wrong. You were overtly aggressive in your replies claiming that all this DF biased bs has been a common complaint for a long time, when it hasn't. Your "proof" above is reaching deep into the garbage bin, for a few specific examples that doesn't even have anything to do with reviews. You denied saying I moved the goalpost when you did in fact say that.
My point is why get so upset about my supposed "disingenuous" tactics, when an honest discussion wouldn't do anything? You believe DF to biased towards MS. Some people don't believe any inherent bias to exist with them. It's beyond obvious that nothing will change your opinion no matter what. So why are you so involved in these threads? Why do you care? Why are you trying so hard to damage people's credibility and careers? If you believe they're biased you're surely not watching any of their videos or reading their articles. That would just be hypocritical. Why do care so much about this topic if DF has absolutely zero effect on you?
Sakura Doritos
Member
I like their stuff. Their retro stuff is pretty tight and if I asked them to remove bias from some of their comments I’d have to entertain people asking the same for me... and I’m not so why should they. I can move past any egregious bias though I haven’t had to in years.
Explosive Zombie
Banned
Well then you got me.
I looked over the first few pages and indeed I did see 3 or 4 comments that suggested DF could be biased towards MS. There were also a couple that suggested the reverse.
If only I had stipulated that these claims be wide spread.
But I didn't in that last post, so you're correct. All these complaints of DF have been going on forever. They're obviously biased.
My reason for asking that question however was to illustrate that my tactic wasn't disingenuous. You claim I was disingenuous and wouldn't have an honest discussion. What good would attempting to have an honest discussion with you result in? No matter what discussion took place, you would never admit you were wrong. You were overtly aggressive in your replies claiming that all this DF biased bs has been a common complaint for a long time, when it hasn't. Your "proof" above is reaching deep into the garbage bin, for a few specific examples that doesn't even have anything to do with reviews. You denied saying I moved the goalpost when you did in fact say that.
My point is why get so upset about my supposed "disingenuous" tactics, when an honest discussion wouldn't do anything? You believe DF to biased towards MS. Some people don't believe any inherent bias to exist with them. It's beyond obvious that nothing will change your opinion no matter what. So why are you so involved in these threads? Why do you care? Why are you trying so hard to damage people's credibility and careers? If you believe they're biased you're surely not watching any of their videos or reading their articles. That would just be hypocritical. Why do care so much about this topic if DF has absolutely zero effect on you?
You didn't stipulate they be wide spread from the start, that was a goalpost shift. You introduced that language midway through the argument and ignored me asking you to explain what widespread entailed. I also am not sure you have proof it isn't widespread because I only linked you 1 thread, I don't really want to try and find as many threads from 2013 as possible to prove it was wide spread, it's actually kinda hard to google shit that old on GAF believe it or not. But I could if your parameters suddenly require it.
I didn't say they're obviously biased. Showing GAF arguing DF are biased isn't my way of arguing they actually are biased. That's not what I'm doing.
Okay... so you went from claiming I was wrong about you not wanting an honest discussion to asking what good an honest discussion would do? So you didn't try to have one? On what basis are you assuming I'd never admit to being wrong? I have in past arguments with other people here. I only got aggressive when you began misrepresenting the things I said. Why are you still arguing it hasn't been a common complaint for a long time? Also my initial argument was simply it existed prior to the console spec reveals and you tried pulling a fast one when you were wrong by going "you didn't specify which consoles" even though my main evidence was a big thread about Gears 5, there are only two consoles whose specs were revealed AFTER Gears 5 got a technical breakdown and even you admitted prior to Gears 5 you didn't know about much of these bias claims.
I reached deep into the garbage bin because you keep shifting the goalposts to further and further back and despite that being a dishonest tactic in arguments I STILL HUMORED YOU. What do you mean reviews? DF doesn't review games, they analyze their tech. I said you set up a goalpost, that's not moving a goalpost, God... any time someone presents an argument they set a goal for you to hit, your original goalpost was that this all started with the new spec reveals, so the GOALPOST was to prove it started before that, I told you I was simply arguing with YOUR GOALPOST, you didn't move it until after and I didn't claim you moved it until after.
Because if you're not here to argue honestly then you're here to simply score points and no one cares for that shit. Who said an honest discussion wouldn't do anything? You'd have to actually be honest to find that one out. I never said I believe DF to be biased towards MS. Not in this thread, that's for sure. You can drag up the Gears 5 thread but you'd have to ignore how that thread ended. It's beyond obvious my opinion you claim I have but I haven't espoused won't be changed? Well, that's an interesting idea you're putting forward. Even if it were my belief (it's not, and it's not what we've even been arguing) I'm not sure you're the best candidate for proving I'm unable to change my mind. Maybe someone who could argue it better should test run it. Threads plural? You combing through my post history? Should people only involve themselves in threads where their ideas aren't solid? I'm not trying to damage anyone's credibility or careers. I believe everyone has bias the question is of degree of bias. What would be hypocritical? Where did I say DF has zero effect on me?
This is like... getting completely out of hand how disingenuous you are, how many different straw men you create and how much you just seem to be baiting and trolling. I really hope the mods look over your conduct here.
I agree that it's gotten completely out of hand. Seeing as the mods will certainly ban me anyway, I'll just end our discussion here.
You crying like a petty bitch over and over because you got lead into defeating your argument is getting pretty pathetic. Your further pleading to the mods in an attempt to play some sort of victim is also pretty sad. All I ask is that once I'm gone, and you've puffed your chest out in an attempt to show dominance.... That you remember the true little pathetic shit stain of a bitch you really are.
Later.
demigod
Member
Bye Karen!
Bye Cocksucker
Epic Sax CEO
Banned
I don't understand why is so hard for some to understand that DF's main purpose with these videos is just to inform.
They make mistakes? So what? They're mistakes, not intentional, they're not perfect, they work with what they have and know and try to maintain contact with the developers to understand better how the technologies used in games are changing. That's why that Halo Infinite video is the way it is. After so much talk they did the favor to explain how these graphics works after all to help those interested to understand why the game looks the way it is, but here and in so many peoples people criticizing DF of favoritism are pratically demanding that they make an verdict just to please them? It's contradictory.
They make mistakes? So what? They're mistakes, not intentional, they're not perfect, they work with what they have and know and try to maintain contact with the developers to understand better how the technologies used in games are changing. That's why that Halo Infinite video is the way it is. After so much talk they did the favor to explain how these graphics works after all to help those interested to understand why the game looks the way it is, but here and in so many peoples people criticizing DF of favoritism are pratically demanding that they make an verdict just to please them? It's contradictory.
Polygonal_Sprite
Member
Pretty much this.
Both sets of fans hate when they rightfully say PC has the best version of multiplatform games from a resolution, visual and framerate perspective.
pyrocro
Member
Perfect point in case, your generalize "well data can be manipulated" but not saying they they manipulate their data then you proceed to talk about everything else.
The fact is they presented their method of data collection on many occasions talked about their philosophy and show the data to back up their claims in every video.
All that generalizing nonsense your talking is silly.
"I heard human kill their own, well that means your a murder" or should I judge you based your actions and intent. DF is particularly transparent with their data and methods.
Even if, I say with a BIG IF DF is on the take, how foolish of them to present the data in every video that can easily be verified by a "smart/90% of game developers" person anywhere on the globe.
(not particularly aimed at you)
So many here make such silly arguments as though what DF says is mystical truth serum magic that hypnotizes the masses to hate their plastic box of choice when they are clearly the most transparent and proficient at what they do.
At least be brave enough to just say you don't like the person presenting the data but the data is accurate, there are much harder things to overcome on a daily basis and to get stuck on that is just lame/Rworded.
Last edited:
supernova8
Banned
Personally cannot see the issue. They were shitting on the Xbox One for not running anything as well as the PS4.
Then they show the Xbox One X (generally) running stuff better than PS4 Pro.
Where exactly is the fanboyism?
I suppose there may be concern over the fact that they had semi-exclusive (Austin Evans did too) access to the Series X hardware and there may have been some agreements in place around that, but at the same time they have given equal dirt/praise to both sides over the years.
They generally praised the PS5 reveal event while generally complaining about the Xbox event not looking next-gen enough.
Not sure exactly what people are expecting..?
Then they show the Xbox One X (generally) running stuff better than PS4 Pro.
Where exactly is the fanboyism?
I suppose there may be concern over the fact that they had semi-exclusive (Austin Evans did too) access to the Series X hardware and there may have been some agreements in place around that, but at the same time they have given equal dirt/praise to both sides over the years.
They generally praised the PS5 reveal event while generally complaining about the Xbox event not looking next-gen enough.
Not sure exactly what people are expecting..?
Last edited: