-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
What's wrong with Digital Foundry?
- Thread starter VFXVeteran
- Start date
cormack12
Gold Member
Why does huge open space != linear? Lost Legacy and UC4 are certainly linear. Just because you have the equivalent of a bowl to run round in, doesn't make it non-linear lol. Oh, you can go round the back or front, this means it is like a sandbox or open world. Get outta here, lol.
Physiognomonics
Member
It was not running on a XSX. Most probably a 2080ti + biggest available desktop CPU like most of the games MS have shown until now.
LED Guy?
Banned
Yeah that shows you just how bad it’s optimized and just how Microsoft don’t care if they wanna show you gameplay running on XSX.
for all the dumbass fanboys who dont know how to use common sense or even their brain
Explosive Zombie
Banned
Almost interesting side argument here about what constitutes linearity in gaming. I'd just say it's a spectrum that ranges from Call of Duty to Halo CE to Metroid Prime to Far Cry 5 to Fallout 4 or some shit, sticking strictly to shooters because I like those. The shooter genre was always somewhat non-linear, stuff like Doom/Duke/Quake with their maze-like environments full of hidden stuff then you had Sin, Goldeneye, System Shock 2... multiple objectives/paths type stuff then Halo, Metroid Prime and Far Cry... stuff like big arenas for firefights leading to different battles each time, Metroid Prime bringing the 2D Metroidvania structure to a 3D shooter with backtracking, sequence breaking and so forth... then we started getting stuff like the FPS Fallout entries and Far Cry's sequels went full blown open world but the most dominant shooters were still stuff like CoD and games like Battlefield (besides Bad Company 1 there isn't much openness to the campaigns). Where would some of the games being discussed fall in this range I'm talking about, though? I feel like TLOU II represents something more akin' to how Halo handled things or Crysis even (since it had the optional stealth) where though the game proceeds in a linear fashion storytelling-wise it has pretty big environments for the action set pieces, even Uncharted 4 was pretty good about having big environments for the big set pieces with verticality and such. That they're games pieced together by more linear segments is kinda whatever to me, so is Metro Exodus. When I hear linear I think something different from these, I'm taken to something like Half-Life 2, a game with some of the best design I've ever seen yet it's fairly linear, though it gives the feel of non-linearity with sections like where you're on the speed boat and can stop and explore buildings and such, to me even the most linear games (like this) aren't linear in the way games once were, platformers where you either performed the perfect action or died and even back then you had stuff like Mega Man where you can choose which level or Metroid/Zelda. I realize this is a tangent that's not necessarily in favor of either big argument going right now, it just amused me what people consider linear.
kraspkibble
Permabanned.
I used to enjoy watching them but since around 2017 they just started going downhill. They would praise the Xbox One X to no end and shit on the PS4 Pro given any opportunity. I'm no fan boy I just wish they would not be so biased and treat each platform fairly. I'd say the same if they kissed Sony's ass instead.
Also I cant stand that Richard guy. Does my fucking head in.
Also I cant stand that Richard guy. Does my fucking head in.
Last edited:
Guardian's Light
Member
Everything is wrong with df, they basically started on consoles too a technical psychosis limited to PC users before, about absolute graphical perfections or riot, made the nerds even more nerds, and now we're condemned to see complaints for missing reflections in puddles and such
pyrocro
Member
You see.
YOU CAN'T MAKE THIS SHIT UP.
he does not like DF because it too technical, WTF.
This is why they exist to find missing reflections in puddles.
The videos might not be for you if you can't figure that out, if you want a promo video for your platform of choice then go to IGN, Gamespot, or any gaming site.
The things mentioned by you is why people go to Digital Foundry. If you notice this in all there videos at some point in time you should have realized this is what they do.
again ALEX's Optimal setting is such a massive time save for anyone who plays on PC, this alone is worth watching his videos.
Last edited:
Dibils2k
Member
because One X is the more powerful console lol and i seen plenty of times they downplay the advantage on One X by saying 1440p looks good enough on Pro
so... sorry to break it to you, but you are a fanboy
Guardian's Light
Member
You see.
YOU CAN'T MAKE THIS SHIT UP.
he does not like DF because it too technical, WTF.
This is why they exist to find missing reflections in puddles.
The videos might not be for you if you can't figure that out, if you want a promo video for your platform of choice then go to IGN, Gamespot, or any gaming site.
The things mentioned by you is why people go to Digital Foundry. If you notice this in all there videos at some point in time you should have realized this is what they do.
again ALEX's Optimal setting is such a massive time save for anyone who plays on PC, this alone is worth watching his videos.
The point is, before df existed, people weren't making big problems about every single droplet, puddle and such
pyrocro
Member
That's a real bury your head in the sand kind of perspective you got there.
its almost as if you want MS to get away with the super underpowered Xbox one, Sony with the Cell processor and the saying PS2 can push 75 million triangles compared to the Dreamcast 3million
You want shit ports like outer worlds on switch not to get highlighted.
How can you not see the utility of having a Digital Foundry and may others?
and yes before DF existed and they have existed for a long time there were a lot of websites doing the exact same thing. (hardOCP, Anandtech and a number of others)
DF just did it well enough and accessible enough that all the gaming sites would steal their analysis and integrate it into their reviews(without giving credit).
You don't seem to understand the shit storm of bait and switch marketing sites like digital foundry is saving us from.
JimboJones
Member
268 views, Just another jealous nobody.
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Such a stupid fucking video, some looser getting triggered when some technical reviewers use word "seems to" what a load of bullshit.
Chiggs
Member
Holy shit. Post of the week.
Last edited:
Some looser? Did Commissioner Gordon have a beer and cheet on his wife?
01011001
Banned
I watched until he started to go on about how he said "seems to"
SES IT SEEM TO, IT VERY MUCH SEEM TO USE THAT! that is a very good guess, and he can't know 100% for sure since he would need to ask the developers directly.
I can not believe anyone would watch a video like this and think "oh yeah, he's got a point".
this thread really brings out the dumbest of the dumb arguments, fucking hell...
EDIT: so I watched on from there (big mistake btw.) and now the video sounds like some flat earth idiot that tells his 10iq followers how they shouldn't get tricked by all the scientific terms scientists use and rather ignore all they say because it can't be proven...
EDIT2: NOW he says D dark10x "doesn't even play videogames", this guy is literally beyond repair... is he a fanboy of something they made a negative video about?
EDIT3: AND HERE WE GO! we found the sand in his vagina! he thinks that Digital Foundry is very much "against emulation". that's why his pussy is irritated! his entire channel (which is not a lot of content but still) is about emulation... CASE CLOSED
Last edited:
01011001
Banned
I'm sorry but if you actually think what he says has any real merit, the I don't know what to tell you other than you have no idea what you are talking about (I edited my previous post btw as I let that hilariously stupid video decent apon me)
Last edited:
Decent apon you? You sound like a real brainiac yourself.
01011001
Banned
I didn't know how to describe it in any other way, as his stupidity came down on me with such a force and with no way to avoid it, due to the very nature of it being similar to a car crash from which you just can't take your eyes off of. (I hope you like my self taught english skills good sir)
(for real, I just tried to find something funny, but it's freaking 2AM here so my brain spat that out...)
I know that abstract thinking is a stretch for plant life, but have you ever considered that you shouldn't interpret every sentence literally? Ever consider that "doesn't even play games" might not mean that he literally doesn't play games but only picks them up to make crappy videos and is completely incompetent at all of them, effectively making his opinions about them worthless?
01011001
Banned
I know that abstract thinking is a stretch for plant life, but have you ever considered that you shouldn't interpret every sentence literally? Ever consider that "doesn't even play games" might not mean that he literally doesn't play games but only picks them up to make crappy videos and is completely incompetent at all of them, effectively making his opinions about them worthless?
the ONLY "evidence" clip shown in this dumb ass video is a clip where John describes a VERY POSSIBLE way of how they did that lighting in TLOU2... that's all he has against them there... and the thing is... he was probably right about how they did the lighting.
the only other direct example of them fucking up was that they didn't notice how DS used a reconstruction method to reach its resolution target. and that will get more and more difficult to notice in the future since reconstruction gets better and better. you often have to pause at screen transitions (of which DS has not a lot btw. so makes it harder right there) in order to notice that the very first frame has very visible artifacting.
this video then goes on and bitches about the writing style, which I couldn't care less about as long as the info in the video is helpful or insightful.
so all in all, a shit video by someone who has obviously got a bit of sand in his vagina because the DF guys aren't the biggest fans of emulation (I don't really know how he gets that idea... maybe because John prefers playing on original hardware or FPGA devices???)
Last edited:
So you want a video that does nothing but lists the hundreds of times they've been full of shit? Spoiler: it's basically EVERY VIDEO THEY'VE EVER DONE.
01011001
Banned
point to a specific case that isn't a slight fuck up about some resolution that is slightly different than what they found.
what I would say is that as they try to push out videos as fast as possible they sometimes miss something here or there, that's a valid criticism for example, so they don't use enough different frames they pixelcount from so they might miss a dynamic resolution (which are really easy to miss in modern engines as TAA gets more and more aggressive and other post processing effects smear the image so to say)
tell me a specific case where their analysis was way off in a very obvious way... not talking about shit like in that video you posted, but actual mishaps.
because again, the only 2 points against their analysis in that god awful video was a clip where John described a very possible way ND did the lighting in closed environments, and one case where they didn't notice the reconstruction method used.
EDIT: btw. I might add that the devs who made DS Remastered did a whole presentation on their checkerboarding algorithm, everyone who is interested in this sort of thing should watch that presentation btw. it's really interesting, even if you just wanna learn what checkerboarding is about but also how it might be able to be improved on.
EDIT2: I want to also add that their checkerboarding method tricked basically every outlet that does tech analysis like counting pixels and running stuff through framerate analysis tools. like for example VGtech, they later also edited their description of their analysis after the devs blew the lid off
here's a comparison shoot with extreme zoom in from that presentation:
there is zero edge artifacting here, which is the usual telltale sign of CB. the only rally difference you see is a tiny loss of quality, which you wouldn't know is missing if you did not have the native image next to it to compare to. meaning, without looking in extreme detail into a ton of different still images taken in different scenarios, you would simply interpret the slight blurriness of the CB image as a form of AA that blurs out the detail a bit.
Last edited:
pixelation
Member
That was the magnum doofus Alex Battaglia, he always downplays any issues with the XBSX (even though it was clear as day that the issues with Halo Infinite were not just lighting related like... how about that pop-in, angular geometry, sub-par character models... and so on and so on). The chubby guy is cool though, pretty level headed.
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
Fanboys upset their platform of choice isn’t being fellated.
Manstructiclops
Banned
PresetError
Neophyte
The biggest problem with Digital Foundry is they are part of Eurogamer and Eurogamer as a whole sold to Microsoft a couple of years ago. They were streaming exclusively on Mixer, for god's sake.
Bryank75
Banned
Yup.... they were quick to make assumptions about the performance of machines but now the proof is right there and all we have is static from DF. Their silence is deafening.
Riky
$MSFT
Maybe because DF does the comparisons properly. Dirt 5 has seven console versions, each has at least two if not three visual modes.
So 17 different outputs to framerate test and pixel count.
No other outlet is doing that sort of analysis and it takes time obviously. Plus the game is constantly receiving performance patches that could mean your results are outdated on release.
So 17 different outputs to framerate test and pixel count.
No other outlet is doing that sort of analysis and it takes time obviously. Plus the game is constantly receiving performance patches that could mean your results are outdated on release.
Last edited:
OmegaSupreme
advanced basic bitch
Or they have a lot of work to do and it takes time? Come on my dude. They aren't perfect but to think they have some sort of conscious bias is silly. This whole thread is silly.
01011001
Banned
the SX is more powerful and well optimised games will run better on it, that's a fact, I know fanboys don't like that but it's simply a fact.
Sony doesn't have any magic spell that breaks the laws of physics just because sony fanboys have a hard-on for Cerny (the guy responsible for the PS4 Pro btw. which is bottleneck city)
If I didn't know any better I would think they was waiting on them bespoke tools from Microsoft
Bryank75
Banned
Well, we will see....
The reason is that in a war, you make an effort to recruit the best most reputable assets to your side.
Both fanboy camps dream of having positive DF "ammo" to throw at the other side. Its the best ammo there is.
When it doesn't happen you have to discredit the source using any and every kind of smart trick, Including the one used on this very topic by OP.
Both fanboy camps dream of having positive DF "ammo" to throw at the other side. Its the best ammo there is.
When it doesn't happen you have to discredit the source using any and every kind of smart trick, Including the one used on this very topic by OP.
Bryank75
Banned
Well COD, AC Valhalla, DMC and the Bloober game say otherwise..... specs on a sheet mean nothing if it cannot be applied to actual games.
No it is not a fact it just have more compute units PS5 have higher pixel rate & triangle output.
funking giblet
Member
DF are laymen, but they do a pretty good job. The video above is hilarious, because it's obvious the guy doing the video doesn't know anything either.
"He doesn't know what a Pixel Shader is"
"Do you?"
"No! but I don't profess to!"
"Then how do you know?"
"He doesn't know what a Pixel Shader is"
"Do you?"
"No! but I don't profess to!"
"Then how do you know?"
diffusionx
Gold Member
Yea it's not like two consoles just launched in the past week, and a brand new line of GPUs isn't launching tomorrow or anything.
The funny thing is that DF gets accused of being MS shills just because they don't produce content that people want when they want it, see the lack of video on the PS5 breakdown from a few weeks ago.
It is hilarious.
Griffon
Member
They are really useful at pointing out the framepacing issues that devs wouldn't acknowledge without them. I'll always be thankful for that and I hope they keep the good fight for years to come.
With that said, beyond that they usually don't really know what they're talking about, and they would benefit by having some actual modern engine programmer to talk about the other technical aspects.
With that said, beyond that they usually don't really know what they're talking about, and they would benefit by having some actual modern engine programmer to talk about the other technical aspects.
Last edited:
01011001
Banned
Assassin's Creed Unity ran better on Xbox One than on PS4... this happens. and Valhalla is an unoptimised shitshow even on PC. issues with Vsync, a broken dynamic resolution scaler and wonky performance
also DMC5 runs better on Series X in every single mode except for the 120fps mode. even tho they apparently had development issues to the point where they planned to patch in raytracing at a later date on Series X (which they then didn't have to)
CoD has a freaking marketing deal with Sony, so what do you think was their main system to optimise for?
Last edited: