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Xbox Unit Sales Down YOY - Only 36 Million Xbox's Sold
- Thread starter xStoyax
- Start date
KingT731
Member
$$$$ /= Unit Sales
xStoyax
Banned
REVENUE is up. They're selling a $500 console now, so they can sell fewer units but bring in more revenue.
REVENUE does NOT Equal Units Sold as above poster pointed out
Thiagosc777
Member
Ok, so according to you nobody is playing the 360 online anymore? So it doesn't count. Obviously that information is incorrect. They have to count 360 users in the Xbox Live numbers. Most of those are also on the X1 as well, but there should be a percentage that haven't upgraded.
Listen to what you are saying, there are over 700 million Windows 10 installations out there. Even a small percentage of that, like 5%, would mean +35 million users. Xbox Live would be close to a 100 million users. It doesn't add up.
Active users are X1 and 360 users. And people who sign in Xbox Live on Windows or phone are X1 or 360 users who want to check their messages or do stuff on Xbox Live.
Thiagosc777
Member
So you are saying MS buys GPUs one by one? As the user clicks to buy a console on the store, they order one and build it up?
The levels of mind bending fanboyism are reaching a point no one previously thought possible.
The easiest explanation is that the number is made up by some internet random. MS reports and NPD indicate the X1 is doing fine. Probably in the low 40s right now.
When did I say nobody is playing the 360 online anymore? MS state that it includes ALL their platforms. The majority of 360 users have moved to other consoles. What you are saying is that you don't believe it because you think XBox live should be more popular on PC than it actually is. 56Million active users per month is including every platform. If every single Xbox one out there logged in per month that would still be lower than the 56Million. Only 50% of xbox users actual subscribed to live at the peak of last gen. So clearly these are not subscriber numbers. There aren't 16Million 360s logging in actively per month. These are not consoles but users anyway.
Windows is installed on millions of work PCs. In fact in my household I have 5 windows 10 machines none of them have touched xbox live accept that one time I logged in to play Solitaire and Sudoku years ago. I don't count as an active user for the month. Even if I were to log in and use the god awful xbox live on windows on ALL of my machines I count as 1 user login. There are 700M windows 10 machines out there but the majority of them are not using xbox live. Yes less than 5% even.
MS state that they include xbox accounts on ALL platforms including windows I don't know why you have a hard time believing that most people don't use xbox live on windows (they use steam) but the ones that do are counted towards MS' numbers
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.vg247.com/2018/07/19/xbox-software-gaming-revenue-q4-2018/amp/
Ping somebody on twitter and ask if you are so inclined
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Thiagosc777
Member
Yes, because it includes around 80 million 360 users out there. So, you think all the 360s contribute ZERO to the total, but Solitaire on Windows is skewing the numbers? Ok.
Nobody is denying that people log into Xbox Live via Windows. I do it. What I am questioning is your made up explanation that Solitaire is artificially inflating Xbox Live's numbers.
People who use their phones or Windows to log into Xbox Live are either already playing on the X1 or 360, or they are playing some Play Anywhere title on the PC.
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Skyn3t
Banned
Welp, nothing new, this gen is dominated by PS4. Microsoft is arming itself to compete in the next one - new studio aquisitions, probably the fastest hardware (judging from Xbox One X) and no TV, sports, anti-consumer bullshit. We've gotta hell of ride on the horizon, folks (probably 2020).
Chairman Tickles
Banned
The numbers sound about right.
BlackTron
Member
Exactly this. They have a terrible habit of sucking the life out of studios. I would say MSFT's task is big and they have a lot to prove. You can't assume anything right now.
TLZ
Banned
I'd say both are coming 2019.
S
SLoWMoTIoN
Unconfirmed Member
All they need is no censorship and to get on the good graces of the Japanese devs Sony is treating like shit and they will have more exclusives. (and no more cancelling games ok?)
Silent Viper
Banned
IHS Markit said 36m in June. So not sure which figure to trust. Zhuge said XboxOne should be around 39m atm.
Without official figures, we cant trust any numbers. I think people are purposely showing less numbers or want to believe they are less than 40m.
My guess is around 40m or above. But without official figures you can't trust any numbers but I bet this article will give fanboy like lastword ammo to fire up on Xbox xD
Without official figures, we cant trust any numbers. I think people are purposely showing less numbers or want to believe they are less than 40m.
My guess is around 40m or above. But without official figures you can't trust any numbers but I bet this article will give fanboy like lastword ammo to fire up on Xbox xD
Why do you keep pretending I said Solitaire is 'artificially inflating' the numbers and going round in circles?
At least read your own posts and those you are replying to:
Somebody said:
Then you said:
Then people told you you have to sign up/log in separately on windows 10 to be counted to which you replied
And people told you you can sign in to the app without playing on xbox at all and share data between the two. To which you replied:
which is where I told you you don't need to be playing on XBox console or even spending money on Play Anywhere titles to be counted because you have to sign in to play games like Solitaire which is free, not playAnywhere and not on xbox. There is also Sudoku, Gears tactics, AoE: DE and countless other games that have xbox live app integration that are not Xbox console games.
The facts are simple and I'm not sure why you're struggling with them:
The MAU count includes all platforms. Windows 10 and mobile included. Including Solitaire players however small or large that may be.
You do not need to be a xbox console user to be counted in this number so I'm not sure why you are so adamant to suggest you do.
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Thiagosc777
Member
Because that's exactly what you are doing. Here:
Implying that Solitaire and other free games are inflating Xbox Live numbers.
That's the cause for the 57 million and not 360 users according to you.
Like I said multiple times, if you are playing a Play Anywhere title on Windows you are already giving MS money for buying the game, thus an active user.
You are trying to create a narrative that the 57 million Live users are somehow inflated by people who play crappy games on the PC (like Solitaire, etc). As if MS is trying to dupe people. And somehow, misteriously, you don't believe that any of the 57 million has anything to do with 360 users playing online.
I give up. You clearly don't read the posts you're replying to. Again I'll ask you where did I say it has nothing to do with 360 users also counting it's you suggesting it's all of the rest. Or where I said it is Solitaire artificially inflating numbers?You like to make assumptions. I already told you not to misconstrue that point but you continue to do it.
You are trying to change the narrative to shoot down a strawman. You said Windows users are not counted, I showed you they are. You said the only windows users that are counted are those xbox users playing their play anywhere titles, I showed you that's also not true.
You pull numbers out of nowhere suggesting windows 10 isn't counted because it should be 500M and the only reason it's higher than the total Xbox one number is because of 360. I'm saying that it includes ALL platforms and games Gears tactics, AoE, Solitaire, Sudoku etc ALL count as users. There is no artificial inflating and any number you suggest for what you think it should be or shouldn't be are numbers from your ass. There is absolutely no way of you telling what the splits and fractions are but at the very least accept that you were wrong about windows users not counting and that there are other reasons than play anywhere titles and move on, not make up things I've never even said.
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Rhazer Fusion
Member
Japanese games rarely sell well on Xbox and I don’t see much changing unfortunately. Pragmatically, if Sony does run the some of the Japanese developers away, I could see them going Switch, PC or even mobile before Microsoft.
S
SLoWMoTIoN
Unconfirmed Member
Considering how Sega is bringing games to the Xbox I hope it comes to all platforms that do not treat the devs like shit. Switch and PC included. (now you just have to get PC users to buy niche games)
iconmaster
Banned
Interesting. JPR tracks sell-in, while NPD tries to track sell-through. (See timestamp)
The analyst seems entirely confident with his data. He drops some interesting facts about the console-versus-PC market too.
Those wondering why the shipment of PS4 GPUs is already at 99 million needn't wonder. Sony sells 3-4 million consoles per quarter, up to 9 million in a holiday quarter. They need GPUs on hand before they can assemble more consoles to ship to the stores. That number is always going to lead the console sales number by whatever number Sony thinks it needs to have at-hand in order to ship in a timely fashion. And with the holidays imminent, Sony is likely to need 9-11 million GPUs just for the next few months.
The fact that Xbox One GPUs seems to be at 36 mil suggests either that console's sales have completely stalled out or weren't as high as was previously believed. Microsoft has been very coy about those numbers -- did we ever have a reliable estimate of them?
The analyst seems entirely confident with his data. He drops some interesting facts about the console-versus-PC market too.
Those wondering why the shipment of PS4 GPUs is already at 99 million needn't wonder. Sony sells 3-4 million consoles per quarter, up to 9 million in a holiday quarter. They need GPUs on hand before they can assemble more consoles to ship to the stores. That number is always going to lead the console sales number by whatever number Sony thinks it needs to have at-hand in order to ship in a timely fashion. And with the holidays imminent, Sony is likely to need 9-11 million GPUs just for the next few months.
The fact that Xbox One GPUs seems to be at 36 mil suggests either that console's sales have completely stalled out or weren't as high as was previously believed. Microsoft has been very coy about those numbers -- did we ever have a reliable estimate of them?
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Thiagosc777
Member
Then what do you mean when you cite Solitaire? Isn't it connected to the total number of Xbox Live users? Is it just a random thing you are throwing around that has no connection with the topic?
Instead of bitching, just be clear.
Trogdor1123
Member
Sorry if this is asked and answered but did Sony say 86 million, not 99?
I'm confused
I'm confused
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
86 are the units sold/shipped (PS4 itself), 99 are the amount of chips (APUs) ordered from the manufacturer (AMD).
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Trogdor1123
Member
Thanks, appreciated
Jigsaah
Gold Member
This whole conversation is irrelevant.
-said no Sony Fanboy ever
But honestly it's true. Fact of the matter is, Microsoft, Google and potentially Amazon is changing the entire landscape of gaming. They aren't flipping the narrative or moving the goal posts like Sony. They are strapping a nuke to the field and hitting the giant red "RESET" button. There is a paradigm shift coming in gaming. Microsoft saw it early on and are touting numbers in terms of users for a reason. Those who think it's because their sales are lower than Sony's...that's a very small part of it. They are preparing themselves for the likes of Amazon and Google, who are much bigger threats than Sony, not in terms of sales or anything trivial like that. Google is trying to get to the aforementioned red "RESET" button first. All 3 of these companies are working on cloud services for their games. Sony is going to either have to align with one of them or get left in the dust. The best they have is Gaikai right now for PSNow. They are going to be 3 years late to the party for backwards compatibility. Them sticking to their guns while everybody else is evolving is not going to be a good thing for them. I'm sure they'll make their money, but when the Playstation is the only real thing they got going for them...it just doesn't seem smart to not keep up.
You guys can rest on your laurels if you want, but if you're a real fan of Sony, you need to be more forward thinking and stop reveling in stats that won't matter in a couple of years.
-said no Sony Fanboy ever
But honestly it's true. Fact of the matter is, Microsoft, Google and potentially Amazon is changing the entire landscape of gaming. They aren't flipping the narrative or moving the goal posts like Sony. They are strapping a nuke to the field and hitting the giant red "RESET" button. There is a paradigm shift coming in gaming. Microsoft saw it early on and are touting numbers in terms of users for a reason. Those who think it's because their sales are lower than Sony's...that's a very small part of it. They are preparing themselves for the likes of Amazon and Google, who are much bigger threats than Sony, not in terms of sales or anything trivial like that. Google is trying to get to the aforementioned red "RESET" button first. All 3 of these companies are working on cloud services for their games. Sony is going to either have to align with one of them or get left in the dust. The best they have is Gaikai right now for PSNow. They are going to be 3 years late to the party for backwards compatibility. Them sticking to their guns while everybody else is evolving is not going to be a good thing for them. I'm sure they'll make their money, but when the Playstation is the only real thing they got going for them...it just doesn't seem smart to not keep up.
You guys can rest on your laurels if you want, but if you're a real fan of Sony, you need to be more forward thinking and stop reveling in stats that won't matter in a couple of years.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
The fact that Sony purchased Gakai and OnLive back when they did, shows pretty forward thinking to what was coming.
SonGoku
Member
That means its 36m APUs for Xbox, so their sold number its way below that mark?
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I mean, this data is speculative at best, much like every other unit sales data when it comes to MS.
Jigsaah
Gold Member
The fact that Sony purchased Gakai and OnLive back when they did, shows pretty forward thinking to what was coming.
And they executed. Badly.
The question is, what do they do now. It's either go cloud or go home. What do you think they have in the pipe now that much larger companies have been working on this for years?
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
It is all hindsight. They were first to the market, they have the data and foundation with it, thus they can expand when the time is right as the tech matures.
It is also an optional service, and one would be foolish to put all their eggs in the all streaming basket. They already offer downloadable games for the PS4 as well for those who want native gaming.
I think it is premature to write it off, because 2 other's are finally getting into that foray and of course going to PR the shit out of it right now.
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I made myself very clear to you already around 2 weeks ago:
Not bitching. You're just ignoring the conversation we've had, and instead of admitting you were incorrect you're now attacking a strawman.
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Freedom Gate Co.
Banned
No.
Data is debunked long ago, NPD had Xbox One unit wise up for months. It also contradicts that EA estimate that also cited AMD.
SonGoku
Member
But isnt this GPU/APU data source the same as Sonys?
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
The Sony one may be accurate, but I believe the MS one is based off guesstimation.
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Jigsaah
Gold Member
I'm just saying that as it stands now, with what we know...Microsoft and Google have their cards out on the table. Sony is fairly quiet about this particular basket. Does it mean they won't have something eventually? No not at all. But if I was a betting man, I would wager that they won't have the resources to do the same things Azure or Google Cloud are doing.
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iconmaster
Banned
I'm not sure about that. NPD and this report are looking at different parts of the pipeline. If by EA estimate you mean the one that had Xbox One at 29 mil in 2017, then this report tracks with it perfectly. We were looking at a 2.5:1 ratio then, and 99:36 is quite close to it. (2.75:1)
I suspect 36 mil is much closer to Xbox One total sales than we've been led to believe.
Freedom Gate Co.
Banned
The issue the source for this has contradicted NPD NA numbers for awhile. Also I meant a different EA one.
It's likely in the low 40's. Even if we take American only numbers and assume the drop for outside is double it'd still be around 38, and that's assuming Xbox One is double down outside the US. Doesn't add up.
It would be clearer if MS gave us X sales because then we can use their early percentage reports to get to an accurate ballpark.
Freedom Gate Co.
Banned
Sony reported that the PS4 installed base at the end of 2017 was 73 million, yet the number in the JPR report is 78 million. So it's just an estimate and guesses.
iconmaster
Banned
That difference makes total sense though. Sony has to buy more GPUs before it can sell more PS4s. The GPU sales number will always be higher than the PS4 sales number.
I could easily believe an Xbox One number in the low 40s. Before I saw this data, I wouldn't have questioned it. But even with NPD we've been guessing about Xbox sales for a long time -- we don't get those numbers from NPD anymore, and Microsoft isn't telling us. This is the first real data we've had in months, maybe years.
I'm not in a hurry to dismiss that.
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Freedom Gate Co.
Banned
Uh no NPD gives us EXACT Xbox sales or right near exact. We aren't having guesstimates from NPD millions wide.
Also the issue is that same GPU in the PS4 doesn't only include the PS4. It also doesn't help that when this came out the Xbox one numbers came from the VGchartz number at the time. The chart is formed of estimates form various sources and estimating the AMD numbers from their report that isn't very clear.
Also it's not the first data we've had for months or years we've had tons of debunked trash over the last couple years. Let's wait for a reliable source before we start thinking we shouldn't dismiss things.
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iconmaster
Banned
I'm sorry to belabor this, but my understanding was NPD stopped reporting specific console sales in 2010. They give us the top-selling console each month, but that's it. There have been NPD leakers since who provide more specific info, maybe you're thinking of those? But AFAIK those leaks aren't consistently available and so they leave calculating a lifetime total difficult.
Ar¢tos
Member
Does it really matter if it is 36m or 40m or 45m when Ps4 is at, at least, 86m?
Nitpicking a few million makes little difference in the overall picture.
DasPenguin
Member
36 million made the right choice
Glass half full. Always see the positive.
I see Gamepass changing the landscape once Microsoft gets their 1st party going. The Netflix of Gaming
They have tried to get 1st party production going for over a decade now. It’s never going to happen. It’s really hard to be the Netflix of gaming when you keep beating the same few series into the ground and being irrelevant in Europe and Japan.
Iced Arcade
Member
If this wasn't bs.... that's some amazing software attach rate they have.
Freedom Gate Co.
Banned
Yes but we know at least up till only a couple months ago the total NPD sales. But this same source has been inconsistent multiple times which was my point. There's nothing new here to suddenly think this is reliable.
Yes, it does. Because you are thinking fanboy wars you aren't interested in the other aspects of the competition selling well. This isn't about the PS4.
A decade ago was 2008. Don't make random crap up. It wasn't until 2012 one could actually argue Halo/Gears/Forza and in 2017 the 360 got replaces by a new consoles with several games that were not that. It's nothing buy system wars myths. The Halo/Gears/Forza nonsense is completely fabricated, also did people forget that people were saying the PS4 has no games earlier this gen? They said that because the Xbox One didn't only have the "same franchises" guy. If you want to troll there's the remains of gamestop system wars, not very active though.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
Sony just announced 86 million, so not sure where this guy has pulled 99 from lol.
Xbox One has hit 40 by now. It seems people seem to have an issue with it hitting 40 for some reason, not sure why, it's not a high number. It's been "around 35 million" for like 2 years now if you believe forum chatter lol. It's like those EA numbers from last year that were debunked by Zhuge quick smart but still get referred to on places like Twitter to this very day.
Xbox hate has grown so strong on the internet that people are upset it's selling poorly. They want it not selling at all.
Xbox One has hit 40 by now. It seems people seem to have an issue with it hitting 40 for some reason, not sure why, it's not a high number. It's been "around 35 million" for like 2 years now if you believe forum chatter lol. It's like those EA numbers from last year that were debunked by Zhuge quick smart but still get referred to on places like Twitter to this very day.
Xbox hate has grown so strong on the internet that people are upset it's selling poorly. They want it not selling at all.
LittleBusters
Banned
This is part for the course on this forum. Pure lies.
TLZ
Banned
You guys arguing back and forth are missing the point here. MS know they've clearly lost this gen. They've been eyeing next gen and planning for it hard I bet. All these acquisitions, strategy changes etc, they're all for next gen (Not just plans to release the next box and that's it). I don't know why you're even bothering with numbers like 36 or 40 or 45 like it makes any difference now. Have 50. They're still way behind and makes no difference. Just ride this one out and eye what they're doing for the next big one.
If after all they're doing now for next gen they still f up, then let's talk.
If after all they're doing now for next gen they still f up, then let's talk.