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[TLZ]

I responded to you earlier and you had no retort but you want to reply to someone else instead and say they have issues and talk about maturity? To tell people to forget about this gen is absurd just because they are being outsold.

You too? Again, literally the answer you want is in the same post offending you. Seriously, you guys are picking on the wrong guy here, and you need to grow up. I'm not going to entertain this childishness anymore. You guys are just choosing to ignore what I already posted and want to stir up unnecessary trouble.

 

[Freedom Gate Co.]

You too? Again, literally the answer you want is in the same post offending you. Seriously, you guys are picking on the wrong guy here, and you need to grow up. I'm not going to entertain this childishness anymore. You guys are just choosing to ignore what I already posted and want to stir up unnecessary trouble.

Your sneaky side swipe at me is not unnoticed Mr.child.

I literally have a screen cap of what you said right next to a quote of you lying about what you said. You devolved into insults and games and have been reported. Have a nice day. Your clearly are not here in good faith and have lied/been deceptive at least in our conversations. Maybe you'll be the one to grow up when you learn to have honest discussions without trying to lie about what you previously posted when you're losing arguments.

 

[Mod of War]

Please refrain from slinging personal insults, returning to form discussing the topic.

 

[TLZ]

L Louis Cyphre Freedom Gate Co.
I'm a console warrior alright. I'm going to entertain you for one last time. Click to expand and see all NINE images.

I'm a liar eh? I rest my case.

I hope you get banned again.

 

[Louis Cyphre]

L Louis Cyphre Freedom Gate Co.
I'm a console warrior alright. I'm going to entertain you for one last time. Click to expand and see all NINE images.

I'm a liar eh? I rest my case.

I hope you get banned again.

You want people to forget this generation for the Xbox One while you show us your collection of original Xbox games?

Not sure why you are purposely ignoring how console generations have changed. In fact Microsoft said before they are not going to continue the same going forward. It's why we are seeing iterative mid cycle consoles, them adopting more into PC gaming, Game Pass, and using streaming as a way to go well beyond the walled gardens we've come to be accustomed to when it came to console gaming.

Please refrain from slinging personal insults, returning to form discussing the topic.

Well we just went from insults to hoping people get banned. Sounds like your typical Xbox thread.

 

[Freedom Gate Co.]

L Louis Cyphre Freedom Gate Co.
I'm a console warrior alright. I'm going to entertain you for one last time. Click to expand and see all NINE images.

I'm a liar eh? I rest my case.

I hope you get banned again.

Not only do you insult everyones intelligence as if they can't go back and read the argument that was made previously (which was you never said that it was pointless discussing sales and that you never said numbers were pointless because you didn't want to admit for flaming fanboy wars.), but you also ignored the MOD who said to stay on topic just to start more console wars. Just to say you hope I get banned?

Please refrain from slinging personal insults, returning to form discussing the topic.

I mean he made it clear right here. Anyway I'm just letting you know the mod posted this post.

 

[David Ricardo]

Please refrain from slinging personal insults, returning to form discussing the topic.

It seems like thread complaining is allowed now. When did that change?

 

[TLZ]

You want people to forget this generation for the Xbox One while you show us your collection of original Xbox games?

Not sure why you are purposely ignoring how console generations have changed. In fact Microsoft said before they are not going to continue the same going forward. It's why we are seeing iterative mid cycle consoles, them adopting more into PC gaming, Game Pass, and using streaming as a way to go well beyond the walled gardens we've come to be accustomed to when it came to console gaming.

So you're agreeing with me about MS changing strategies because the current one isn't working for them. Cool.

Not only do you insult everyones intelligence as if they can't go back and read the argument that was made previously (which was you never said that it was pointless discussing sales and that you never said numbers were pointless because you didn't want to admit for flaming fanboy wars.), but you also ignored the MOD who said to stay on topic just to start more console wars. Just to say you hope I get banned?



I mean he made it clear right here. Anyway I'm just letting you know the mod posted this post.

Keep digging your own grave.

 

[Louis Cyphre]

.

So you're agreeing with me about MS changing strategies because the current one isn't working for them. Cool.
.

It's the same strategy Sony is taking too in some ways. It's called adapt or die. They don't need PS Now or to charge for online multiplayer buy they are.

So how does that correlate to ignoring the current gen for Xbox One when we likely have at least another year or two to go and many games in between? You're all over the map. Also whose to say the current one isn't working for them?

If it wasn't working we would see a drop in support. Red Dead Redemption 2 just came out on the PS 4 and Xbox One. Not Switch or PC so tell me again what isn't working or are you going to backtrack and start talking about hardware sales being the only defining thing again?

See, there are different levels of success but console warriors only talk about winners and losers.

 

[Three]

Google is already doing a better job with its first title and to suggest there is nothing wrong with PS Now proves to me you haven't even tried it.

Good try but mind actually showing some data and I'm not talking from some random guy from reddit who just says 'it's better'. Some actual data please because arstechnica says its the same latency and even my own experience is the same no matter how hard you want to pretend I haven't tried PSNow. 2015 PSNow latency is not the same as 2018 PSNow.

Show me some actual hard irrefutable data that goes against my personal experience, preferably with location, because I would hope nobody is stupid enough to take your word for it.

 

[Freedom Gate Co.]

So you're agreeing with me about MS changing strategies because the current one isn't working for them. Cool.


Keep digging your own grave.

I see you still want to continue. Well I'll let them handle it.

 

[Jigsaah]

But you read that and think it will 100% work as they say it will without at least reading reports about the quality first. Why not just wait for the product to be released? Or at least be in beta form?

If what they say is in fact true, I do think it will 100% work for me, I'll be honest. They admit that your connection has a lot to do with the quality. I happen to have amazing internet. So yes, you're right, I can't speak for everyone. People who don't have at least a 10mb/sec connection will have trouble. I am hopeful however that if they are doing this right now at 10 mb/sec and I get 250mb/sec that this could be amazing for my specific situation.

I think this is kinda beside the point though. Earlier in the thread, my argument was that Sony doesn't have anything right now to contend in this environment. They had cloud gaming, they were using Shinra. Then they shut it down in 2016. Why? Im not sure, but maybe it could be because they have a better solution. I mean PSNow is still available. It could also be because PSNow wasn't as popular as they would have liked. I think after they went the gamepass route and allow people to download the games PSNow became more popular, as it should. Still doesn't mean my original point is lacking merit

 

[TLZ]

I see you still want to continue. Well I'll let them handle it.

Haha. Oh the irony. You should've shut up when I posted my Xbox, 360 and Xbox One collections as it'd put your silly imaginary console warrior argument to bed. But you kept making a fool of your childish self. Go on.

 

[Jigsaah]

But you read that and think it will 100% work as they say it will without at least reading reports about the quality first. Why not just wait for the product to be released? Or at least be in beta form?

I do think it will. Microsoft have made some blunders in the past and recently they have been very tight lipped about upcoming releases and features unless they were sure it was going to happen. I think they've done enough testing to know this is going to work. Like I said, it's already happening. They are just working on perfecting it. Now do I think they are going to perfect it? I'm not 100% sure about that and come to think of it, I never said anything in my arguments about this 100% working. That was you putting words in my mouth. Go back and look at any of my posts.

See what you're doing is trying to cast any doubt that you can in order not to give Microsoft any kind of an edge. I give them benefit of the doubt, just like I gave Sony the benefit of the doubt when it came to PSVR, knowing full well, VIVE and Oculus was likely to be better setups given that you had the proper rig to run it. I don't believe in this because I'm a fanboy one way or another. I believe this because I'm an advocate of new technology and genuinely want it to succeed. I'm also hyped about Google Stream and I'm not saying it'll be better or worse. I'm saying it'll be great. I think Project xcloud will also be great.

 

[Mod of War]

I see you still want to continue. Well I'll let them handle it.

Haha. Oh the irony. You should've shut up when I posted my Xbox, 360 and Xbox One collections as it'd put your silly imaginary console warrior argument to bed. But you kept making a fool of your childish self. Go on.

Enough please. Either return to the subject at hand, or remove yourselves from the topic.

 

[TLZ]

.

It's the same strategy Sony is taking too in some ways. It's called adapt or die. They don't need PS Now or to charge for online multiplayer buy they are.

So how does that correlate to ignoring the current gen for Xbox One when we likely have at least another year or two to go and many games in between? You're all over the map. Also whose to say the current one isn't working for them?

If it wasn't working we would see a drop in support. Red Dead Redemption 2 just came out on the PS 4 and Xbox One. Not Switch or PC so tell me again what isn't working or are you going to backtrack and start talking about hardware sales being the only defining thing again?

See, there are different levels of success but console warriors only talk about winners and losers.

I don't understand why you're still going. I literally said MS know they've lost this gen. Saying they've lost isn't an inflammatory word. It's just the fact of what's happening to their Xbox One currently. Their focus and strategies have shifted much sooner towards nextgen. They know the sooner they start, the better results they have when next gen starts, and the readier they will be.

What I'm saying is, you guys are bickering over trivial stuff now. This gen is gone. Next gen is where we should be seeing all MS current efforts come to fruition. Start next gen with game pass already having a big library, xcloud already being a new option, a powerful console option or having the more powerful one from the start. The single player games that Sony offered this gen, they'd have a good number of similar games to compete with ready for next gen too with all the studio acquisitions. No silly forced Kinect like accessory that adds an unnecessary $100. No more being less powerful than the competition for more money. No more focus on TV TV TV and ignoring your main gaming crowd, because it's a gaming machine first and foremost. No more sending the wrong messages. All these and more possibly. This is what I clearly mean by forget this one. This one is to ride out. All current building is for nextgen to come out guns blazing on all fronts. They've already started fixing these issues this gen in preparation for nextgen. They know this one is gone, but they're not doing it for now. They're doing it for later. I keep repeating myself because I feel the need to when I'm being ignored, even though this is all too cleara dn obvious.

You may believe no more nextgen, but that won't be the case come 2019-2020. You'll see MS coming out in full force then.

I swear someone else reading this will say I sound like a true MS fanboy spouting fanboy dreams, yet I'm here being accused of being a console warrior (a Sony fanboy) by MS fans. SMH.

 

[TLZ]

Enough please. Either return to the subject at hand, or remove yourselves from the topic.

Ok I'm done.

 

[Louis Cyphre]

I don't understand why you're still going. I literally said MS know they've lost this gen. Saying they've lost isn't an inflammatory word. It's just the fact of what's happening to their Xbox One currently. Their focus and strategies have shifted much sooner towards nextgen. They know the sooner they start, the better results they have when next gen starts, and the readier they will be.

What I'm saying is, you guys are bickering over trivial stuff now. This gen is gone.

This gen is gone? I'm sorry but we are not talking about the Wii U here. It's still getting lots of games. The Xbox One also came out 5 years ago with no new system insight. How long do you think the average console is out before a new system?

You're so focused on Sony doing so well with the ps4 that it's clouded your judgement that everything else has to be irrelevant. That's console warrior nonsense.

 

[Louis Cyphre]

Good try but mind actually showing some data and I'm not talking from some random guy from reddit who just says 'it's better'. Some actual data please because arstechnica says its the same latency and even my own experience is the same no matter how hard you want to pretend I haven't tried PSNow. 2015 PSNow latency is not the same as 2018 PSNow.

Show me some actual hard irrefutable data that goes against my personal experience, preferably with location, because I would hope nobody is stupid enough to take your word for it.

I've tried it earlier this year (PS Now) that's the only thing that matters is my own experience. I have read many reviews about Google's service and it's been nothing but positive. The same CANNOT be said about PS Now from multiple users.

Like I've been saying, some of you think Sony can do no wrong. Google, Amazon and Microsoft have the capital and the infrastructure around the globe. Sony does not compare in this area m

 

[Silent Viper]

I request mods to lock this thread coz without official numbers we can't trust any of these sales numbers. Some say 40m and some 36m.

These threads do nothing but act as ammo for fanboys of rival fanboys to fire Xbox.

 

[TLZ]

This gen is gone? I'm sorry but we are not talking about the Wii U here. It's still getting lots of games. The Xbox One also came out 5 years ago with no new system insight. How long do you think the average console is out before a new system?

You're so focused on Sony doing so well with the ps4 that it's clouded your judgement that everything else has to be irrelevant. That's console warrior nonsense.

You're so focused on putting that label on me no matter what I say or show that's blinded your proper judgement. I love all home consoles. Believe what you want.

Anyway, I've told mods I'm done. So I'm done.

 

[Three]

I've tried it earlier this year (PS Now) that's the only thing that matters is my own experience. I have read many reviews about Google's service and it's been nothing but positive. The same CANNOT be said about PS Now from multiple users.

Like I've been saying, some of you think Sony can do no wrong. Google, Amazon and Microsoft have the capital and the infrastructure around the globe. Sony does not compare in this area m

Your experience is of no concern to me. I've read many reviews of PSNow and Google project stream too. check the Arstechnia one I referred to even.

Question: Where are you from? Because you keep talking about 'infrastructure and capital' yet you fail to mention that there is no infrastructure for Project stream or xCloud outside the US at the moment. You just assume it's going to be great or better because you think Sony can do no right not because I think sony can do no wrong. You have no data about anything though, am I correct?

 

[Clear]

I request mods to lock this thread coz without official numbers we can't trust any of these sales numbers. Some say 40m and some 36m.

These threads do nothing but act as ammo for fanboys of rival fanboys to fire Xbox.

It doesn't really matter. Look we know from the published NPD results that in the NA market, although Xbox performance has improved YoY, they are still lagging behind Playstation year-to-date. This is despite Gamepass, BC, One X etc. to uplift their performance.

Given we know that historically speaking that the NA market is far and away their most important for sales, and that there is no evidence to support a radical. positive change in their fortune in overseas territories, (in fact, judging by the UK market we see a similar deficit to the NA situation) we can safely conclude that globally MS are still losing market-share to Sony month-on-month.

Oh, and regarding PS Now performance, this article may prove to be an eye-opener to some people.

 

[bellome]

36 millions is a remarkable result considering how weak the xbox offer have been through this gen. They surely did better than deserved.

 

[JoeyWestSide]

So 20 million people are playing on pc using the Xbox app rather than steam? Because they're at 55+ million xbl mau's.

 

[TLZ]

It doesn't really matter. Look we know from the published NPD results that in the NA market, although Xbox performance has improved YoY, they are still lagging behind Playstation year-to-date. This is despite Gamepass, BC, One X etc. to uplift their performance.

Given we know that historically speaking that the NA market is far and away their most important for sales, and that there is no evidence to support a radical. positive change in their fortune in overseas territories, (in fact, judging by the UK market we see a similar deficit to the NA situation) we can safely conclude that globally MS are still losing market-share to Sony month-on-month.

Oh, and regarding PS Now performance, this article may prove to be an eye-opener to some people.

Yeah. We have a thread here https://www.neogaf.com/threads/playstation-now-dominates-subscription-gaming.1467785/

 

[Thiagosc777]

So 20 million people are playing on pc using the Xbox app rather than steam? Because they're at 55+ million xbl mau's.

These are made up numbers created by some random. They don't mean anything. Mods should add a disclaimer about "rumor" to the title of the thread.

 

[Freedom Gate Co.]

It doesn't really matter. Look we know from the published NPD results that in the NA market, although Xbox performance has improved YoY, they are still lagging behind Playstation year-to-date. This is despite Gamepass, BC, One X etc. to uplift their performance.

Given we know that historically speaking that the NA market is far and away their most important for sales, and that there is no evidence to support a radical. positive change in their fortune in overseas territories, (in fact, judging by the UK market we see a similar deficit to the NA situation) we can safely conclude that globally MS are still losing market-share to Sony month-on-month.

.

What does this mean?

"despite"? Despite what? The GP, X, etc. helped raise the Xbox up YOY, that was the goal, not for BC and the X to suddenly beat the PS4.

We also can't safely conclude anything, we have no new data for the markets Xbox one was up and ahead of the 360 in since 2016.

Also numbers do matter for next gen and for other reasons including partnerships etc. So whether these numbers are reliable or not does matter because if some bad source comes out with 21 million and people are leaning on believing it that will change many of MS' option the rest of this gen and when the new console comes out.

A lot of the momentum, deals, and contracts on the 360 were only possible due to relatively strong previous sales and its position with the original Xbox.

So 20 million people are playing on pc using the Xbox app rather than steam? Because they're at 55+ million xbl mau's.

Yeah doesn't make much sense.

 

[Nikana]

36 millions is a remarkable result considering how weak the xbox offer have been through this gen. They surely did better than deserved.

Says it's weak then says surprising they did 36 million.

Maybe it's not that weak?

 

[GenericUser]

why do you people care so much about which piece of eletronic sold how much? As long as you get the games you want to play on your platform, everything is fine and dandy - or not?

 

[mckmas8808]

If what they say is in fact true, I do think it will 100% work for me, I'll be honest. They admit that your connection has a lot to do with the quality. I happen to have amazing internet. So yes, you're right, I can't speak for everyone. People who don't have at least a 10mb/sec connection will have trouble. I am hopeful however that if they are doing this right now at 10 mb/sec and I get 250mb/sec that this could be amazing for my specific situation.

I think this is kinda beside the point though. Earlier in the thread, my argument was that Sony doesn't have anything right now to contend in this environment. They had cloud gaming, they were using Shinra. Then they shut it down in 2016. Why? Im not sure, but maybe it could be because they have a better solution. I mean PSNow is still available. It could also be because PSNow wasn't as popular as they would have liked. I think after they went the gamepass route and allow people to download the games PSNow became more popular, as it should. Still doesn't mean my original point is lacking merit

My main issue with what you have been saying is the bolded. You keep speaking as if Sony doesn't have a real option, when they are literally the World LEADERS in the Game Streaming space right now.

 

[Clear]

What does this mean?

"despite"? Despite what? The GP, X, etc. helped raise the Xbox up YOY, that was the goal, not for BC and the X to suddenly beat the PS4.

We also can't safely conclude anything, we have no new data for the markets Xbox one was up and ahead of the 360 in since 2016.

Yeah, no, we can safely conclude everything I wrote. You can't gain market-share when the market leader comfortably outsells you month-on-month in NA. EMEA and Asian markets, and especially when a resurgent Nintendo is seeing their best hardware sales since the heyday of the Wii.

Revenue and profits may have improved, but marketshare... not a chance, because thats a metric of overall market performance, and as such is about as much as what your competitors are doing, as your own.

Playstation not only has a huge install-base advantage from the generation this far, but also has conserved their momentum remarkably well as evidenced by sales figures in every major territory. To erode that. you need to outsell them substantially for a protracted period.

 

[Freedom Gate Co.]

Yeah, no, we can safely conclude everything I wrote. You can't gain market-share when the market leader comfortably outsells you month-on-month in NA. EMEA and Asian markets, and especially when a resurgent Nintendo is seeing their best hardware sales since the heyday of the Wii.

Revenue and profits may have improved, but marketshare... not a chance, because thats a metric of overall market performance, and as such is about as much as what your competitors are doing, as your own.

Playstation not only has a huge install-base advantage from the generation this far, but also has conserved their momentum remarkably well as evidenced by sales figures in every major territory. To erode that. you need to outsell them substantially for a protracted period.

Uh again, the goal of the X and BC etc. Was NOT to BEAT the PS4, it was to increase sales generally and to increase profits.

Not sure why you think they released the X for marketshare. Maybe in NA at best but otherwise that's an odd conclusion.

 

[Clear]

Uh again, the goal of the X and BC etc. Was NOT to BEAT the PS4, it was to increase sales generally and to increase profits.

Not sure why you think they released the X for marketshare. Maybe in NA at best but otherwise that's an odd conclusion.

My belief is the X was primarily conceived as a way to get ahead of the general perception that Xbox was a less capable platform than PS4, a spectre that has haunted them since the start of the gen. As such it should be considered a contributor to the sales performance of the Xbox brand as a whole through improved mindshare, not to mention any new SKU should provide either a general sales boost or more profit per unit if its a replacement for an existing line.

Simply put though, if the MS brass didn't think it would be beneficial to their overall ecosystem, why would they go through all the R+D and marketing/manufacture expense in the first place? Its a BIG move in a business-sense, so why should it be excluded from any examination of their overall position?

The name of the game is expanding your audience, these aren't boutique products.

 

[Freedom Gate Co.]

My belief is the X was primarily conceived as a way to get ahead of the general perception that Xbox was a less capable platform than PS4,

Which was primarily in NA where that belief was the loudest.

Simply put though, if the MS brass didn't think it would be beneficial to their overall ecosystem, why would they go through all the R+D and marketing/manufacture expense in the first place?

The confusion is you're applying something done primarily for NA in terms of mindshare, worldwide. In some countries the X is just there for margins and doesn't have much effort. In NA and UK, to an extend, it was done for mindshare. Not World Wide though which is what you're implying.

X in other countries like japan (for awhile), Germany, France, etc. are there for margins not mind share and you can tell that just by how the X is promoted, or lack of that. In some countries Xbox One is doing well in, but doesn't have the spending power of those countries the X isn't even there, or is limited in shipment. With the possible exception of mexico.

But the X even than wasn't meant to beat or significantly close the gap with the PS4 eitherway.

 

[Clear]

Which was primarily in NA where that belief was the loudest.



The confusion is you're applying something done primarily for NA in terms of mindshare, worldwide. In some countries the X is just there for margins and doesn't have much effort. In NA and UK, to an extend, it was done for mindshare. Not World Wide though which is what you're implying.

X in other countries like japan (for awhile), Germany, France, etc. are there for margins not mind share and you can tell that just by how the X is promoted, or lack of that. In some countries Xbox One is doing well in, but doesn't have the spending power of those countries the X isn't even there, or is limited in shipment. With the possible exception of mexico.

But the X even than wasn't meant to beat or significantly close the gap with the PS4 eitherway.

What nonsense. Margins are mostly irrelevant on hardware, the money is in the services and software ecosystem, things that the One X is no better suited for driving than the S. The reality is that the lifetime sales of the One X are likely to cap out below 15mil units, well below the economies of scale required to make it lucrative as a pure hardware offering.

The fact that you mention Japan, a territory where combined Xbox sales are typically under 200 units per week, just shows how badly your argument is floundering.

 

[Freedom Gate Co.]

What nonsense. Margins are mostly irrelevant on hardware, the money is in the services and software ecosystem, things that the One X is no better suited for driving than the S. The reality is that the lifetime sales of the One X are likely to cap out below 15mil units, well below the economies of scale required to make it lucrative as a pure hardware offering.

The fact that you mention Japan, a territory where combined Xbox sales are typically under 200 units per week, just shows how badly your argument is floundering.

Did you read my post? I was talking about profits not sales. Japan's X sales helped the brand go up to previous levels, so if a $500+ yen equivalent console is helping sell what Xbox One used to sell without it, which is poor yes, that means that Microsoft is now making more money selling the same numbers now then before the X. It's simple math.

Your theory that the X was made to try and "catch" the PS4 doesn't make any sense. It was made for profit primarily and to remove in NA and the UK, the image of being less powerful. Where do you get this idea the X and BC and etc where made to "catch" the PS4 worldwide as you implied earlier?

they are still lagging behind Playstation year-to-date. This is despite Gamepass, BC, One X etc. to uplift their performance.

I mean you basically ignored my post and though I was talking about sales, which is what YOU WERE talking about before. I'm saying the X wasn't made for sales it was made for profits primarily, and mindshare to a limited extent in its two strongest markets based on the advertising in those two countries. BC, X, Gamepass were not made to "catch" he PS4, heck GP is coming to PC.

 

[Clear]

Your theory that the X was made to try and "catch" the PS4 doesn't make any sense. It was made for profit primarily and to remove in NA and the UK, the image of being less powerful.

I never said that. What I wrote was that the launch of One X, the introduction of GamePass, expanded BC, etc. Were all measures intended to further Xbox's competitiveness in the market. However despite those innovations, PS4 has maintained its lead in sales allowing Sony to further consolidate its position as market leader.

I went on in a later post to detail my view of how the launch of the X specifically contributed to that aim - by overcoming the stigma of Playstation consoles being more powerful this gen, thus gaining/improving mindshare - for the Xbox brand and ecosystem as a whole.

The only time I mentioned X was in conjunction with Gamepass, clearly 2 very different types of offering, which I would have thought evident demonstration that I was simply referencing recent innovations and enterprises MS has employed to improve performance. Hell, in the quote of mine you cite me specifically saying "uplift performance"!

I'm kind of at a loss to figure out your point in all this. Following the introduction of the One S in August 2016 the platform received a solid sales bump and MS got to score PR points from apparently gaining far more from their refresh than Sony did with the PS4 Slim the month after. However that improvement was short-lived and by 2017 sales had fallen back to normal. I mention this to put into context that the launch of any major new hardware SKU should stimulate sales, the question as always is how long will the stimulus last past the point where its mainly being propped up by platform loyalists.

That is the question One X has yet to answer, and by extension demonstrate how convincing and enduring the recent improvements in Xbox revenue will be in the long-term.

 

[Freedom Gate Co.]

I never said that. What I wrote was that the launch of One X, the introduction of GamePass, expanded BC, etc. Were all measures intended to further Xbox's competitiveness in the market.

In the two markets it's competitive in. Outside of that it's preparing for the future because GP, BC etc are going to transfer to next generation. I see no evidence of them using it to be competitive in any other region. The Xbox One X for example, is advertised differently in it's strongest markets than in others in commercials. In it's strongest markets it's made to be competitive because they are competitive in those markets, outside that it's advertised differently and it's more to make profit off the install base.

That was my point.

As for the X, it did better than the S. It has since it launched, till this day, elevated Xbox One sales in multiple markets where it would otherwise be down A LOT. While the S only did that for about 3-4 months, so it's already more successful in that aspect. However, I don't see how outside its strongest markets you think the X's objective was to be competitive because in your earlier posts your context was clearly worldwide.

In japan, for example, the X is made to make more $ off it's small install base, it's not even advertised the same as the stronger markets. It isn't even trying to be competitive there. Same goes for GP and BC, that wasn't done to be competitive in japan, it was done to keep an install base glued and to make more money off it.

 

[Jigsaah]

My main issue with what you have been saying is the bolded. You keep speaking as if Sony doesn't have a real option, when they are literally the World LEADERS in the Game Streaming space right now.

No, you're choosing to interpret it this way. All I'm saying is Sony hasn't revealed anything in this arena as of this time. I've said that several times in previous posts. You are getting defensive for no reason. Everything I'm saying is simply based on the evidence we have right now.

You also choose to ignore the supporting fact afterwards that mentions that Sony HAD cloud computing and shuttered it in 2016. That was Shinra. Was it to build something bigger, better? Who knows...all I'm saying is right now, what is at least public knowledge, is that Sony doesn't have anything. Would it make you feel better if I said, "doesn't have anything YET"? Because right now, it seems like people who are arguing facts at this point seem to only be satisfied producing doubt in what Microsoft is already doing but is fine if someone says Sony's response is inevitable or something. Stop the bias. Go with the facts and you cannot be called a fanboy.

 

[mejin]

I'd expect they were over 40M by now. Really surprised.

Although 2018 is better for XBO in US, it seems it continues to be burned worldwide.

 

[Thiagosc777]

I'd expect they were over 40M by now. Really surprised.

Although 2018 is better for XBO in US, it seems it continues to be burned worldwide.

These are made up numbers. There's nothing to be surprised about.

 

[Three]

No, you're choosing to interpret it this way. All I'm saying is Sony hasn't revealed anything in this arena as of this time. I've said that several times in previous posts. You are getting defensive for no reason. Everything I'm saying is simply based on the evidence we have right now.

You also choose to ignore the supporting fact afterwards that mentions that Sony HAD cloud computing and shuttered it in 2016. That was Shinra. Was it to build something bigger, better? Who knows...all I'm saying is right now, what is at least public knowledge, is that Sony doesn't have anything. Would it make you feel better if I said, "doesn't have anything YET"? Because right now, it seems like people who are arguing facts at this point seem to only be satisfied producing doubt in what Microsoft is already doing but is fine if someone says Sony's response is inevitable or something. Stop the bias. Go with the facts and you cannot be called a fanboy.

You seem very confused. Shinra was Square Enix, not Sony. Sony HAS cloud gaming right now in PSNow. What haven't Sony 'revealed in this arena'? What are you arguing?

 

[mejin]

These are made up numbers. There's nothing to be surprised about.

FFS...nothing to see here then

 

[Jigsaah]

You seem very confused. Shinra was Square Enix, not Sony. Sony HAS cloud gaming right now in PSNow. What haven't Sony 'revealed in this arena'? What are you arguing?

Crap, ok you're right I misread the article. Shinra is Square's not Sony's. Sony's is Gaikai from what I understand. Though I could have sworn there was some relation. If I find the article again I'll post it. Til then, my apologies.

To answer your question, the arena I'm discussing is cloud gaming over any device. The larger fight is for the "2 Billion" gamers Microsoft touted in their E3 showing and post interviews. Google seems to be building towards a similar target with it's Google Stream. Sony has gaikai, but from what I understand at this point in time, they have not made an attempt at providing their service to more than PS4 and PC.

 

[iconmaster]

Some more data points to consider in evaluating this report --

EA's estimate from May of 29.4 million Xbox One units sold, submitted by bitbydeath . It dovetails just fine with the JPR report.

Another market research firm (IHS) claiming 39.1 million Xbox One units sold as of June. Most likely, MS did not sell almost 10 million Xboxes in one month, so this report would be difficult to reconcile with EA's estimate, and is also above the JPR tally. I'm having a hard time finding the original source for this, so I don't know how IHS is calculating that number.

I'd submit that if you take the EA estimate along with the JPR report, you have a pretty sound picture of worldwide Xbox One performance. But you could argue that the IHS estimate is a stronger contender than I'm allowing (and I'd be interested to hear why).

 

[mckmas8808]

Crap, ok you're right I misread the article. Shinra is Square's not Sony's. Sony's is Gaikai from what I understand. Though I could have sworn there was some relation. If I find the article again I'll post it. Til then, my apologies.

To answer your question, the arena I'm discussing is cloud gaming over any device. The larger fight is for the "2 Billion" gamers Microsoft touted in their E3 showing and post interviews. Google seems to be building towards a similar target with it's Google Stream. Sony has gaikai, but from what I understand at this point in time, they have not made an attempt at providing their service to more than PS4 and PC.

I'm glad we are all using the same facts now. I'd also say that you should stop saying Sony has GaiKai. It's PSNOW, it's not GaiKai. Sony after buying that company has added their own engineers to that streaming sector and made it into something of their own.

 

[Lionel Richie]

Dat BC doing work.

I'm a bit late to this and I know it is a joke, but damn we should not get snarky at the one good thing that Microsoft provides. It's our own fault when the PS5 isn't backwards compatible and we have to pay 30 bucks to enjoy Mirror's Edge Catalyst again.

 

[Freedom Gate Co.]

Some more data points to consider in evaluating this report --

EA's estimate from May of 29.4 million Xbox One units sold, submitted by bitbydeath . It dovetails just fine with the JPR report.

Stop this.

It's weird because EA said the installed base at the end of calendar 2016 was 79 million. Now they say the installed base is 103 million at the end of 2017.

So if we look at the numbers Sony provided.
PS4 was at 53.4m at the end of 2016. That would put Xbox One around ~25.6m.
PS4 was 73.6m at the end of 2017. That would put Xbox One around ~29.4m

So EA is estimating that Xbox One sold around 3.8m units in 2017. But the Xbox One sold more than that in the US alone.

So the numbers don't add up. Perhaps they're excluding some territory or maybe Pro/OneX?

As I stated in prior threads, the Xbox One installed base is over 35 million globally.


http://www.playstationlifestyle.net...s4-xbox-one-sales-reach-105-million-end-2017/

the Xbox One’s sales would probably have to be around 85-90% North American in recent years if the system was still at under 30 Million. It doesn’t add up.

They are wrong.

I'd submit that if you take the EA estimate along with the JPR report, you have a pretty sound picture of worldwide Xbox One performance. But you could argue that the IHS estimate is a stronger contender than I'm allowing (and I'd be interested to hear why).

You literally are trying to make up numbers you know you don't have the soruces for. People who have asked you, including myself, why you take these numbers as gospel but none of the more reliable previous once, you have dodged answering the question. You're impatience does not make these numbers any more or less reliable than before, you have no reason to hold the JPR estimates on a pedestal Zero.

At this point one can argue you're bordering on trolling.

 

[iconmaster]

You literally are trying to make up numbers you know you don't have the soruces for.

It's an estimate from a market research firm. We rely on those all the time when it's NPD behind the numbers.

People who have asked you, including myself, why you take these numbers as gospel but none of the more reliable previous once, you have dodged answering the question.

No, I've given my opinion on this. JPR 1) has been around for years, 2) is used as a source by sites like AnandTech and 3) has a realistic claim to accuracy (GPU shipments).

Meanwhile, I'm also trying to find counterpoints to their report. I don't know how I can be more balanced in evaluating this. You can certainly disagree with me -- I don't think I'm on 100% solid ground with these estimates -- but I'm not sure why it makes you angry.