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Wolfenstein: The Old Blood |OT| Out With The New Order, In With The Old Blood
- Thread starter orthodoxy1095
- Start date
Futurevoid
Member
Anywhere to download it? Fucking loved that song!
Again,no clue what to do in what seems an impossible fight..when the Jager guy comes crashing through the door in chapter 4 when you try to go in the basement in a basement...keep dying over and over,the game is so bad at giving you hints on what to do...the civilian peeks out to tell me something,am I suppose to hit square when he does that or what...the Jager wont come down,even after I get him on his knees a few seconds to take away some of his armor.
The Xtortionist
Member
Well if thats what has to be done,this will take forever...plus my original load of the save has me at about 170 health but when you die and restart,it leaves you with less and less each time...guess its a one shot try and reload from the main menu...plus the stupid R3 prompt is so touchy,you often hit him with the pipe instead of going in the animation of pulling stuff out...so bad.
The more I think about it, the more I feel like The Old Blood is the superior game in many respects.
I think part of the reason it disappoints us is because... well, we all needed a game like The New Order. So some of us were expecting TOB to be just as electrifying, but it can't be in a world where TNO has preceded it, even if it's an improvement, because we've had our breath of fresh air.
I can't speak for you, but I completed him in under two minutes. You only need to
. It's not as well communicated as it could be, but I can't imagine this being a pain unless you're playing on Uber--and if that's the case, well... don't do that.
I think part of the reason it disappoints us is because... well, we all needed a game like The New Order. So some of us were expecting TOB to be just as electrifying, but it can't be in a world where TNO has preceded it, even if it's an improvement, because we've had our breath of fresh air.
I can't speak for you, but I completed him in under two minutes. You only need to
take off three pieces of armor, then shoot his chest a lot
Net_Wrecker
Member
TOB has weaker encounter design relying too heavily on wave-like arenas obviously built for combat challenges, and stuffing you in tight rooms with bullet sponge enemies. It also has worse storytelling. Neither of those aspects are bad, mind you, because the combat is still fun as hell and the writing is still entertaining, but it's clearly a step down. There's nothing as exhilarating and well balanced as the best shootouts/sequences from The New Order (barring the final chapter), and definitely nothing that touches all the small character interactions (in part because you never get to see BJ).
The biggest improvement is how the chapters feel more connected, but even that takes a hit because pacing overall doesn't feel as nuanced with an especially odd rhythm to the first 2 chapters that feel more like mid-game events.
But again, it's more MachineGames helmed Wolfenstein. It's great. Can't wait for whatever they do next.
Dr. Kitty Muffins
Member
If that arrives on the PS4, I am there.
My biggest complaint about TOB, other than thinking I might get to fight on a zeppelin, is probably that I needed to spend more time with the characters for certain moments to have any meaning.
I think the ratio of game to story remains about the same, however, there's less game, so there's less story. Additionally, TOB spends more time attempting to tell its story 'in game' rather than via cutscene. Like, I don't really recall any moments like That Moment in Chapter 6. You're looking through a window at a thing and you have to make a choice in that moment--it's not the same cutscene-type thing from the first chapter of TNO.
It's a matter of presentation.
TNO spent a lot more time making sure you saw this stuff going on; TOB has a lot more of it told subtly, through the game. Too bad it didn't spend a lot of time doing it. I mean, the time I spent with that one guy was like... 'hi yes nazis are coming, fight them; here's one cutscene in a boat, okay, I'll occasionally talk to you over the radio...' etc. The great "Billy Boy" dialog sequence was awesome, but that's almost all the time you spend with Annette.
I think the ending cutscene with her in it was supposed to come across as poignant, but considering you only meet her twice, it doesn't really feel that way. The game simply isn't long enough for that to hold up, in my opinion. I think what it's got is better (sitting down for tea, the aforementioned Billy Boy conversation, etc), but it doesn't spend enough time with these moments by virtue of being, well, a shorter game.
Sometimes less isn't really more, I guess.
I'm not sure I agree with you about the combat spaces. What encounters do you feel were top-notch in TNO? I often felt as if there were no individually stand-out encounters in the game, just overall solid combat.
TOB needed to let me strafe more--it felt like the enemies did more damage and the game wanted to encourage stealth and cover--but I felt like it had individual combat arenas that were superior.
I feel like some of Wolfenstein's gameplay mechanics don't transition particularly well in these challenge maps. Having to mash the square/X-button to pick up health and armor in a speedy fashion, only to accidentally reload in a critical moment and get shot dead is kind of bumming me out. Also, throwing knives instead of using your melee attack, since they're on the same button and, again, you're under a time crunch to string together combos, is also leaving me very discontent.
Also, that load-screen tune you're forced to listen to every time you restart a challenge level is probably going to be permanently ingrained in my brain.
Also, that load-screen tune you're forced to listen to every time you restart a challenge level is probably going to be permanently ingrained in my brain.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
what does TOB do better than TNO
The narrative is worse in every single aspect. The world design, the characterization, the motivation, the dialog, etc. The music isn't as memorable. The pacing of its stealth-combat-stealth-stealth-combat grows monotonous without the narrative strands that hold it together. The level design have more Challenge Room bullshit design with obvious monster closets that just throw enemies at you. The sound design on the weapons is still weak as shit. The final boss is T-R-A-S-H. The "twist" enemies are the least interesting enemies in either game. The AA option is nice, but the engine is what it is. The sniper and grenade pistol are great, but I still want my Assault Rifle back with the grenade launcher attachment.
I'm seriously struggling to think of anything The Old Blood has over The New Order. And it probably shouldn't, its a budget release. But from the characters, the world design, the music, the enemy design, the level design, the final boss...its all a downgrade, b
The narrative is worse in every single aspect. The world design, the characterization, the motivation, the dialog, etc. The music isn't as memorable. The pacing of its stealth-combat-stealth-stealth-combat grows monotonous without the narrative strands that hold it together. The level design have more Challenge Room bullshit design with obvious monster closets that just throw enemies at you. The sound design on the weapons is still weak as shit. The final boss is T-R-A-S-H. The "twist" enemies are the least interesting enemies in either game. The AA option is nice, but the engine is what it is. The sniper and grenade pistol are great, but I still want my Assault Rifle back with the grenade launcher attachment.
I'm seriously struggling to think of anything The Old Blood has over The New Order. And it probably shouldn't, its a budget release. But from the characters, the world design, the music, the enemy design, the level design, the final boss...its all a downgrade, b
Messofanego
Banned
I'll agree on there not being as many narrative pinnings for the levels and scenarios, but that seemed understandable for 1 year of development. I don't see the big disappointment, though.
The combat scenarios are more fun and longer with the multipath level design. Enemies do more flanking than in TNO.
The characterisation of Annette was really cool, and even better that the ending is changed.
Pippa was cool, too, for however short a time she had for a shorter game.
There's a lot of funny conversations with the characters, and the enemies.
Blazko's monologues are still good, and the last one in particular
"And then I can rest"
Getting to see Nazis just hanging around, getting drunk, laugh, having gos at each other, and give each other heart-to-hearts at the tavern is way more characterisation to the regular grunts than anything in TNO.
It's typical Starbreeze stuff, giving the enemies a lot of personality before you murder them.
The assault rifle with rocket launcher attachment is exactly replaced by the Kampfpistole.
The end music track is as epic and emotional, even a bit more, than TNO. The ending itself is damn bittersweet. I liked the foreboding sadness that the whole game has going for it, cause of what's going to happen in TNO.
Net_Wrecker
Member
I agree that what they attempted to do with more subtle in game storytelling is commendable, but it just doesn't work as well as what they did in The New Order. I think seeing BJ's performance and removing the player from those awkward 1st person moments was a key part of why the story scenes worked in TNO. What they're doing in The Old Blood is, at times, a wholly different style of storytelling, one I think is worse without a few key traditional cuscenes to prop the whole thing up. Going forward I'd like to see them combine both styles and get the best of both worlds.
I just feel like the balance and pacing of combat was better in The New Order. It reminded me of early 2000 shooter design where sometimes you'd simply stumble into a room and only shoot 3 or 4 carefully placed enemies without the game space needing a gimmick. It paced itself more and didn't feel the need to make everything some kind of challenge map-like experience with enemies pouring from every orifice of the map. Then when it DID go big and provide more standout encounters (escaping the prison in Chapter 4, EVERYTHING in Chapter 6: The London Nautica, the U Boat with the bouncing shotgun rounds, EVERYTHING in Chapter 12: The Gibraltar Bridge, etc.) it felt like a natural part of your forward progression, less like a square or circular combat space that exists purely as a monster closet challenge room. it's like because The Old Blood was half as long overall, they ramped up early and often trying to provide the same kinds of highs in a more concentrated package which led to a sort of Uncharted 3 "kitchen sink" encounter design approach.
This isn't to say The Old Blood doesn't have some fun encounters, it does, but that's more on the strength of the combat system and less about enemy placement and how they paced everything. The New Order was more my speed.
I just want to make this clear, it's not the arenas I'm criticizing. For the most part the combat spaces are more detailed, bigger, and have more paths. They're fine. I think how they're used is worse overall. You can clearly tell when you stumble into a challenge map encounter, which is pretty much every time there are more than 3 enemies in an area, because it immediately turns into an almost swarm-like experience where, as you say, it seems like the (now more punishing) enemies are forcing you into a slower, more careful playstyle. (not that you have to oblige them)
And Messofanego, I personally wouldn't use the term "disappointment." The Old Blood just isn't as great as The New Order. I'm happy to be playing more Wolfenstein from this team, but the things I loved about TNO are not as abundant in TOB. Aside from BJ's one liners and internal monologues which are still top notch.
Can you explain what you mean about the Final Boss? I think it did a pretty good take on the whole "problem with FPS bosses is range" thing. How would you change it to make it a better boss? What makes for a good shooter boss?
Interesting you say the music isn't memorable--this was the game where I went "huh, I really want this soundtrack. I only remember the menu music for TNO."
The sound design is still a problem--especially with the sawed-off. I want to have a long sit down with their sound designer and insist they play Syndicate.
Forgot about this.
I disagree. Rocket launcher assault rifles can be dual-wielded and fire way faster. I think you have a clip, too, so you're not interrupted with frequent reloading. It's why that final boss is so easy on Uber--you just go into him with a fully upgraded rocket launcher and destroy EVERYTHING. It's awesome.
I can see that. I don't fully agree, but I get where you're coming from.
I'm not sure I ever felt like a space was particularly gimmicky, and I felt like there were rooms with just a few enemies in them, as well as larger combat spaces. In a couple places, as long as you kill the officers, you won't suffer from waves and waves of enemies.
I only felt like there were five or six of those arenas, and I'm not sure I see the problem; plenty of great games feature arenas. Half-Life has 'em. Halo has 'em. Corridor-arena-corridor is Valve design in a nutshell. Wolfenstein has that and it's got rooms without and it's got segments without any gunplay at all and it's got places you can stealth if you want.
I felt like it had a lot of variety, but that variety made sense. Uncharted 3's throwing things at the wall to see what sticks. The Old Blood still has a lot of precision in its design.
The Old Blood focuses more on enemies that move around the combat space--that's core to the combat experience. These enemies are smart. They're not 'placed,' they have entry points and then they fully use the arena. Like messofanego said, they love flanking, and the game's got plenty of areas that encourage them to flank the player. This unpredictability is, to me, what makes the game fun. If I'd fault TNO on anything, it's that it often put enemies directly in front of you and said 'go that way.' Like... several areas on the bridge and the moon (which both look fantastic, but are my least favorite levels in the game because they're so constricted).
I like to dance around the combat environment. I think The Old Blood emphasizes that and The New Order didn't. Of course, The Old Blood also seems to kill me more easily, so it kinda holds back my ability to traverse.
You're right, they are more punishing. For me, the only annoyance I felt at their presence was when the zombies were raining from the sky. I was like "whew, it's over," and then... no, I wasn't. There's a pacing to the encounter that's lost. Games like FEAR mastered this sense that there were X number of enemies.
Here's what I think would help: being able to see the arenas and the enemies inside before engaging. You get this a lot with Halo: observe, plan, engage. It's what makes it such a great game. With Wolfenstein, it's "so yeah, you're going to be here for X amount of time," and the more linear approach in TNO meant you were more likely to know just how many enemies you were going to fight.
I think for me, the ideal would be less punishing enemies, encounters that let me strategize, but TOB's arena spaces. Would you agree?
Net_Wrecker
Member
That would all be great. To add onto all that I'd say MachineGames should find a way to leverage that unpredictable flanking ability of the enemies (which IS a lot of fun) and use it in a way that would reduce the amount of enemies per arena in favor of more active and reactive smaller groups. Don't fall back to bombarding the player with lone wolf reinforcements (THIS spot was one of the more obvious ones), but instead create encounters against elite enemies that move around the arena. Guys that switch tactics based on how the player is behaving, use all the pathways as you do, use covering fire for advances and retreats, etc. Smarter, better, faster. Not more.
Mohonky
Member
So anyway despite a lot of people seemingly thinking this content was just ok at best, I am going to say I really enjoyed it. There's a couple of things this game and the original does so much better than so many other shooters;
- gun handling just feels perfect, even using a controller. Everything feels so well weighted and enemies never feeling like sponges.
- BJ's little anecdotes and reminiscing to himself. An action hero that appears to able to connect to the world in a way other than just blowing shit up
- good mix of stealth, action and narrative moments
All the above holds true for TNO, but it also holds true here for TOB so really, so it's a no lose situation. What made TNO great is still very much alive and well here.
The first stealth sections were a bit drab with the super soldiers, I will admit that was definitely the games weak point but outside of that it was more of the same which I really enjoyed, particularly as it went deeper into the occult stuff and things go more supernatural. I really enjoyed the Schabb side of the game a lot. For me Wolfenstein has always moved away from the tedium of another WWII based game with its supernatural hook and I felt they played into that really well with this one.
This is more the DLC I expect from companies, it was priced right, had a good length and I got more of the game I loved the first time around. For me, its add on content done right, even if it is stand alone.
-----------------
Observation though, does this game look like its gamma curve is off. I cant remember if It was like this in TNO, but it looks like there is a lot of black crush, to the point I went back and double checked my output settings in nvidia control against my TV settings, and retested other games and they all looked correct except this one (didnt have TNO installed to compare). Had to crank brightness to the point the pause menu was really washed out before shadows or even doors were really visible and didn't just appear totally black, even expanding TV range to 0-255 looked 'right' without washing things out and revealing those details in shadows. It was really unusual. I can only imagine it was meant to look very contrasty by nature because everything I double checked my settings against was correct.
- gun handling just feels perfect, even using a controller. Everything feels so well weighted and enemies never feeling like sponges.
- BJ's little anecdotes and reminiscing to himself. An action hero that appears to able to connect to the world in a way other than just blowing shit up
- good mix of stealth, action and narrative moments
All the above holds true for TNO, but it also holds true here for TOB so really, so it's a no lose situation. What made TNO great is still very much alive and well here.
The first stealth sections were a bit drab with the super soldiers, I will admit that was definitely the games weak point but outside of that it was more of the same which I really enjoyed, particularly as it went deeper into the occult stuff and things go more supernatural. I really enjoyed the Schabb side of the game a lot. For me Wolfenstein has always moved away from the tedium of another WWII based game with its supernatural hook and I felt they played into that really well with this one.
This is more the DLC I expect from companies, it was priced right, had a good length and I got more of the game I loved the first time around. For me, its add on content done right, even if it is stand alone.
-----------------
Observation though, does this game look like its gamma curve is off. I cant remember if It was like this in TNO, but it looks like there is a lot of black crush, to the point I went back and double checked my output settings in nvidia control against my TV settings, and retested other games and they all looked correct except this one (didnt have TNO installed to compare). Had to crank brightness to the point the pause menu was really washed out before shadows or even doors were really visible and didn't just appear totally black, even expanding TV range to 0-255 looked 'right' without washing things out and revealing those details in shadows. It was really unusual. I can only imagine it was meant to look very contrasty by nature because everything I double checked my settings against was correct.
Hopefully it does.
Oh so it's $25 only if you already bought TOB? That makes me feel a bit better.
Crab Milk Mickey
Member
Uh, the game gave you plenty of hints facing similar enemy units prior to that boss fight. It's just you repeating the same action with a small additional twist.
The Old Blood's second act on a mechanical level being a swing-and-a-miss makes me disagree with that statement. The
zombies
three-way combat
I can see where MachineGames was coming from with the
occult
Return to the Castle Wolfenstein
I don't see how The Old Blood has bulletsponge enemies. I'd go as far as to say it has them even less than The New Order, where they hardly existed either. The Super Soldiers are immobilized in TOB for reasons that be and those fat orange dudes - I'll ignore the grenade pistol for a moment here - can be taken down with a single shot. Increasing the difficulty once more doesn't make 'em a whole lot beefier unlike a lot of other shooters too. It's the primary reason why I even bothered with Über and finished it with surprisingly little difficulty relative to what I was expecting.
I got 11 of the perk trophies by the end of chapter 1 but fucked myself over by grabbing the machine off the boat early and using all the ammo for the perk. That boat part on uber is impossible without it, lol. After an hour of trying i had to restart the level. Other than that uber difficulty is pretty easy.
psychotron
Member
Haven't seen it anywhere. Hoping it goes up on spotify like TNO soundtrack did.
Yes, really enjoyed it and was definitely worth $20
Up to Chapter 8 and now going back through to pick up the gold I missed
before continuing on. Really love this game, is the perfect length for me right now, and I've even really enjoyed the nightmare stages.
I bitched about the forced stealth in the beginning, but going back for gold on an easier difficulty it was a joke. I still think the whole section is a drag pacing-wise, but it's not the worst thing ever.
and saving Annette
I bitched about the forced stealth in the beginning, but going back for gold on an easier difficulty it was a joke. I still think the whole section is a drag pacing-wise, but it's not the worst thing ever.
Backfoggen
Banned
The game didn't give me the achievement for finishing on Death Incarnate because I tried the boss once on a difficulty lower. Switched it back on tries afterwards. Didn't progress 1 inch on any difficulty other than Death Incarnate.
What a bunch of shit. Bad ending to an already disappointing release.
What a bunch of shit. Bad ending to an already disappointing release.
clutch.as.it.gets.
Member
Has the PS4 version no anti aliasing like the New Order, or added they some cheap and blurry post process aa like FXAA?
Marty-esque
Member
Isn't this usually the case with dropping the difficulty unless there's some kind of glitch?
He might have to replay Chapter 8, but as long as you complete each chapter (completely) on the difficulty you want it should pop.
Backfoggen
Banned
I guess it just checks for lowest difficulty ever selected instead of for example going by what difficulty each checkpoint was completed as.
Don't care too much about the achievement so I'm not going to replay just for that, just found it odd.
SlipperyMoose
Member
I really hate boss fights that throw in 3rd party people attacking you while you're trying to kill the boss. There has to be a better way to give the boss a challenge other than that.
Overall I liked the ga me but it wasn't as versitile as TNO. It does however have a lot of content for a $20 single player expansion.
Overall I liked the ga me but it wasn't as versitile as TNO. It does however have a lot of content for a $20 single player expansion.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
I think we've become altogether too used to handholding and desensitized to the need to experiment.
My last final is tomorrow, then I can finally go to town on this puppy and finish the second half up.
It's a pixelated jagged mess, but you get used to it. If it does use FXAA then it's not working.
Finished it yesterday and absolutely loved it. Final boss was a bit of a chore though. The whole escape sequence from the castle was my favorite section, It evoked the bridge sequence from the main game - and Half Life 2 as a result.
After playing the main game on PS4 and then this on PC, I definitely want to go back and play it proper on PC with M/KB. It's amazing how much more mobile and more accurate I felt; the controls lend themselves well to M/KB
After playing the main game on PS4 and then this on PC, I definitely want to go back and play it proper on PC with M/KB. It's amazing how much more mobile and more accurate I felt; the controls lend themselves well to M/KB
Yeah normally i dont care about graphics per say, but on PS4 it is definitely tough to see some enemies at a distance, and when you start firing... forget about it, it looks like someone is smearing vaseline on the screen to simulate recoil. Didnt have similar problems with Metro or even TEW so im not sure exactly where the fault lies.
Just seems like everything kinda blends together at a distance, I was thinking they knew this and added huge blue lights to most of the enemies lol
idtech5
I figured that, but i didnt have this problem in TEW (the only other idtech game ive played). I wouldnt say Tango or Workshop would have a better handle on the engine than Machine given their experience either.
I kind of prefer The Old Blood. I think mostly it is because I prefer the time period/setting of the game to TNO. Jager was also a pretty compelling antagonist. Challenge mode was a great idea and it's a shame that the original game didn't include it. Overall it's pretty great dlc after finishing TNO last week. I was also happy to see
Fergus at the end, even though it stung a bit when it mentioned Deathshead being Blazko's last hurrah
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
Actually it serves a different purpose - makes sure you can't run out of ammo during the fight because you can always melee mooks and get some more ammo.
clutch.as.it.gets.
Member
Thats why i`m asking. I didn`t play the old blood so far but on screens you can see its not looking as sharp as The new order. Thats why i asked if they are using FXAA, which smears vaseline over the whole screen and makes everything blurrier.
KatamariOnTheRocks
Member
In regards to Story which game would you recommend starting with? I know that New Order is the "stronger" game which is part of the reason I want to start with Old Blood. Would Old Blood spoil anything in New Order?
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
No, but I do recommend New Order first.
Nope. Unless I'm underthinking something, you can play them in either order since this is a prequel
I would play them in release order. The Old Blood has some nods to the New Order.
KatamariOnTheRocks
Member
Thanks for the replies, I think I'll start with Old Blood so that it feels like ramping things up when I play New Order. I was mostly concerned with the story being a continuation of New Order but with this being a prequel that doesn't seem like the case.
MR ARCADE FOREVER
Member
I forgot about the physical copy! I was waiting to be available at best buy but it seems they only have it the digital download