-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
What if you never "get good" at Dark Souls/Bloodborne?
- Thread starter mishakoz
- Start date
More than likely you are better now than before. When I 1st played Gwen he kicked my ass for a week. By the time I was playing DS2 I was much better and really feeling good. When 3 rolled around I was co-oping in random fashion souls gear to help others out just for shits and giggles.
It gets easier.
It gets easier.
almostjuliuscaesar
Member
this is how i feel about DS3 after shredding Bloodborne. Those knights in the first level are wrecking me and i know you have to parry them but it just doesn't seem to be clicking.
ScientificPizza
Banned
On the stairs? Avoid them
LordKasual
Banned
Y...you quit?
I mean games were way harder back during the NES days, but I know even in my youth with seemingly infinite time, there are some games i just never completed
I mean games were way harder back during the NES days, but I know even in my youth with seemingly infinite time, there are some games i just never completed
Trogdor1123
Gold Member
My strategy lol
DaciaJC
Gold Member
I know that feeling. Yeah, sometimes I'll feel really excited about finally nailing a boss's patterns down and subduing them after a lot of effort, but other times I just heave an exasperated sigh and think, "Fucking finally ..."
I think this is why there are much more NPC summon in the sequels, though most of them are useless, they do give you a moment to chuck that estus. You'll have to pay the price for summoning with increased boss HP however.
I don't think it's possible to make the game more accessible than it is, without sacrificing what the game is to those of us who love it. People need to get over the fact that, while it sucks, not every game is made for everyone, and you don't have to beat every single game in existence, regardless of hype, just play those you actually enjoy.
Reading OP, I'm wondering why you even bother playing the game, it doesn't sound like you enjoyed anything from it, describing the ending as "I finally beat it". I could understand not enjoying the challenge, but just played it for the story, however, it doesn't sound like that, it sounded like the OP was happy that a chore was over... So I ask, why play if you aren't having fun? Because it's hyped?
I don't think it's possible to make the game more accessible than it is, without sacrificing what the game is to those of us who love it. People need to get over the fact that, while it sucks, not every game is made for everyone, and you don't have to beat every single game in existence, regardless of hype, just play those you actually enjoy.
Reading OP, I'm wondering why you even bother playing the game, it doesn't sound like you enjoyed anything from it, describing the ending as "I finally beat it". I could understand not enjoying the challenge, but just played it for the story, however, it doesn't sound like that, it sounded like the OP was happy that a chore was over... So I ask, why play if you aren't having fun? Because it's hyped?
old manatee
Banned
Bruce Springsteen
Member
OP is playing games he has no interest because of online peer pressure, just think about that
No one is forcing you to continually give it a shot, games are meant to be fun, period
No one is forcing you to continually give it a shot, games are meant to be fun, period
Well, you did say that you tend to overlevel so if you were above sl 80 you probably wouldn't be able to find anyone since most people beat the game (if they don't do the dlc) would beat the game somewhere between sl 60-80.
Anyway, to me its all about having fun with the game not about being good. I've put a ton of hours into these games and I'm merely ok at best but I enjoy playing the game so don't worry about being "good" just have fun and if your not having fun, just stop playing. Games are supposed to be fun and if your not having fun then you should play something else that allows you to have fun.
shotgunbob04
Member
I feel bad for anyone who doesn't get any sort of sense of accomplishment when they finally beat Ornstein and Smough for the first time. I felt so amazing when I finally did it after like 15 tries. Felt like a badass.
Orochinagis
Member
/Thread
hydrophilic attack
Member
How does summons existing not support your idea that you don't have to git gud??
I think I was 94 or something. I had no option to co-op.
Tajaz2426
Psychology PhD from Wikipedia University
Its only a video game, bud. If you never get any better, or it never interests you, just play another video game.
However, I cant help but enjoy Dark Souls and Bloodborne games. Bloodborne is my second favorite game behind Final Fantasy IV. For some reason the environments and searching for the story just bring me into the world and I dont want to leave.
I suffer from PTSD and I use video games as an escape, not the gameplay, but the stories are what interest me. When I play Souls/Borne games I have a note pad I use to try and figure out the story as I go and it intrenches me into that world. It becomes a distraction for me and it comforts me for some reason.
I am not particularly good at video games, and BloodBorne was the first game of the series I ever tried. Man, oh man, I was in for a rude awakening, I died a lot. For some reason though I couldnt put down the controller and I wanted to learn how to move, when to strike, when to run, how to use the weapons properly.
It was amazing, I forgot everything around me when I had the chance to play. After days of practice and probably a good 20 hours, I finally got to the first boss and man I was ready. YOU DIED screen, over and over, it was great. Something that I had to learn and work hard to beat. It made me feel like I was back in the Marine Corps, learning how to be the best Marine I could. I have to work hard to become the leader I wanted to be and for some reason this game resonated with me. It is hard to put into words.
From there I was hooked and I have beat DK2 and DK3 and about to start 1. The games I feel can be played how you want. You can play for the story and not worry about getting real good, by calling in others to help. There is no shame in that. The game is accessible as you want it to be and played the way you want. That is my feeling anyway.
The games make me want to learn the system, but if the game doesnt immerse you and doesnt want to make you get better, there are plenty of games out there and no reason to care what others may think.
Anyway, just wanted to put my experience with the Souls/Borne series and how I started. Good luck, my friend.
However, I cant help but enjoy Dark Souls and Bloodborne games. Bloodborne is my second favorite game behind Final Fantasy IV. For some reason the environments and searching for the story just bring me into the world and I dont want to leave.
I suffer from PTSD and I use video games as an escape, not the gameplay, but the stories are what interest me. When I play Souls/Borne games I have a note pad I use to try and figure out the story as I go and it intrenches me into that world. It becomes a distraction for me and it comforts me for some reason.
I am not particularly good at video games, and BloodBorne was the first game of the series I ever tried. Man, oh man, I was in for a rude awakening, I died a lot. For some reason though I couldnt put down the controller and I wanted to learn how to move, when to strike, when to run, how to use the weapons properly.
It was amazing, I forgot everything around me when I had the chance to play. After days of practice and probably a good 20 hours, I finally got to the first boss and man I was ready. YOU DIED screen, over and over, it was great. Something that I had to learn and work hard to beat. It made me feel like I was back in the Marine Corps, learning how to be the best Marine I could. I have to work hard to become the leader I wanted to be and for some reason this game resonated with me. It is hard to put into words.
From there I was hooked and I have beat DK2 and DK3 and about to start 1. The games I feel can be played how you want. You can play for the story and not worry about getting real good, by calling in others to help. There is no shame in that. The game is accessible as you want it to be and played the way you want. That is my feeling anyway.
The games make me want to learn the system, but if the game doesnt immerse you and doesnt want to make you get better, there are plenty of games out there and no reason to care what others may think.
Anyway, just wanted to put my experience with the Souls/Borne series and how I started. Good luck, my friend.
texhnolyze
Banned
I never mastered parry mechanics in these games, but somehow I managed to beat them.
Also, you actually managed to finished the game. So basically you get good.
Also, you actually managed to finished the game. So basically you get good.
Drillary Clinton
Banned
"Damn I'm having troubling clearing this content myself."
*summons*
"Wow, I just cleared the content."
Hey OP, I relate to you!
As a general rule, I suck at games. I almost always set it at the Easiest difficulty setting, and if I die more than 3-4 times at attempting a boss I get very frustrated. The challenge is not fun for me, it's frustrating and feels like a waste of time.
I play games for the experience of travelling to another world and experiencing it through the eyes of another character. I'm not saying I want to moonwalk through combat, but as soon as it becomes a struggle it's no longer fun for me. I have limited time to dedicate to playing games, and I don't want to waste it on something I find to be a drag.
When I played the Witcher III I got stuck on an early game boss (
). I died a good 20-30 times before -by some divine intervention- I was able to whittle his health bar to zero before he regenerated. When I finally beat him, like you, I just felt relief.
I admit there was a small giddy feeling of "I did it!", but I was mostly happy that the next time I turned on the game I wouldn't be dreading that stupid fight.
I never got gud at the game, I just overlevelled myself up so much that nothing was a challenge anymore, which...didn't bother me that much.
That's why when I see the SoulsBorne games, I already know what my experience will be, and I know that there's no emotional value I'll get out of it.
I've never "got gud" at any game ever, and I don't think I'd ever be motivated enough to try.
As a general rule, I suck at games. I almost always set it at the Easiest difficulty setting, and if I die more than 3-4 times at attempting a boss I get very frustrated. The challenge is not fun for me, it's frustrating and feels like a waste of time.
I play games for the experience of travelling to another world and experiencing it through the eyes of another character. I'm not saying I want to moonwalk through combat, but as soon as it becomes a struggle it's no longer fun for me. I have limited time to dedicate to playing games, and I don't want to waste it on something I find to be a drag.
When I played the Witcher III I got stuck on an early game boss (
can't remember his name but he's part of the Wild Hunt and you fight him with Keira
I admit there was a small giddy feeling of "I did it!", but I was mostly happy that the next time I turned on the game I wouldn't be dreading that stupid fight.
I never got gud at the game, I just overlevelled myself up so much that nothing was a challenge anymore, which...didn't bother me that much.
That's why when I see the SoulsBorne games, I already know what my experience will be, and I know that there's no emotional value I'll get out of it.
I've never "got gud" at any game ever, and I don't think I'd ever be motivated enough to try.
These kinds of arguments always boil down to "remove the stakes" or "lower the stakes" - and I'm completely against that as it destroys the core of the Souls games.
With each progressive game in the Souls series, the stakes have been lowered a little already with bonfire galore, comfort features such as warping from the beginning, removing boss gauntlets and so on to make the games more mainstream-compatible and it has hurt the games greatly in my opinion.
I'm currently replaying DS1 and it is so much more tense than DS2 and DS3. The relief you feel when reaching the bonfire at the bottom of Blighttown, the relief you feel when you got cursed (yeah, it happened again) and finally made your way back to the church or the merchant ... it all came back to me and reminded me of why DS1 is still the best in the series (or at least on par with DeS).
No, OP. How about just playing a different game instead of wanting game X to change to suit needs of player Y? There is a vast selection of great games out there and I recognize that not every game is for me.
I wish I could experience DS1 for the first time again. DS2 and 3 are very good games, too, just not on the same level as BB and DS1/DeS.
With each progressive game in the Souls series, the stakes have been lowered a little already with bonfire galore, comfort features such as warping from the beginning, removing boss gauntlets and so on to make the games more mainstream-compatible and it has hurt the games greatly in my opinion.
I'm currently replaying DS1 and it is so much more tense than DS2 and DS3. The relief you feel when reaching the bonfire at the bottom of Blighttown, the relief you feel when you got cursed (yeah, it happened again) and finally made your way back to the church or the merchant ... it all came back to me and reminded me of why DS1 is still the best in the series (or at least on par with DeS).
No, OP. How about just playing a different game instead of wanting game X to change to suit needs of player Y? There is a vast selection of great games out there and I recognize that not every game is for me.
Always charming to read how new players really get into the Souls games.
I wish I could experience DS1 for the first time again. DS2 and 3 are very good games, too, just not on the same level as BB and DS1/DeS.
I never knew Gwyn was supposed to be that difficult. I beat him on my first try...
Anyway OP: In a sense, you already 'got good' since you actually beat the game. There are also various mechanics built into the Souls games that are there to make your life easier. Overlevelling and summoning for example.
Some builds are also easier than others.
Anyway OP: In a sense, you already 'got good' since you actually beat the game. There are also various mechanics built into the Souls games that are there to make your life easier. Overlevelling and summoning for example.
Some builds are also easier than others.
I understand your points, but this feels like another one of those topics where a game doesn't appeal to a person, or doesn't fit that person's style, and yet, there is a sort of culture to the enjoyment of said game. So naturally, gamer ponders why he/she isn't getting it like the others, and suggests that the games should be changed to fit personal tastes even though so many enjoy it.
Also, anecdotally, I played Dark Souls 1 completely offline, and found Gwin to be fairly easy. I did, however, have trouble with other bosses in the game, but I kept pushing myself and learned new techniques. There are flaws to the game, but I don't think the difficulty is one of them.
Also, anecdotally, I played Dark Souls 1 completely offline, and found Gwin to be fairly easy. I did, however, have trouble with other bosses in the game, but I kept pushing myself and learned new techniques. There are flaws to the game, but I don't think the difficulty is one of them.
kraspkibble
Permabanned.
the games aren't even as difficult as people like to make them out to be. sure at first they can seem tough but if you stick with it and adapt then after a few hours you'll be fine.
Tajaz2426
Psychology PhD from Wikipedia University
It is amazing how these games can grab you and hold your attention so well. The almost non-story they present you with and having to read items, NPCs, etc. to try and come up with your own hypothesis is one of the most amazing things I have seen in video games.
Some people like the way they do it and some folks say it is lazy, but for the feeling of a oh yeah, I get it moment is a feeling you dont get with many games out there today.
ScientificPizza
Banned
Japanmanx3
Member
Why don't you just play something else and accept that the series isn't what you like? Especially if you're not enjoying the game...
As someone who used a lot of Parry in Souls and Bloodborne, any boss that can be reliably parried was trivialised. Like most humanoid type enemies were pretty easy.
I have much more trouble with the bigger monstrosities like Ebrietas, Lud and Zallen, Nito etc
Your first game will always be the hardest. The "git gud" meme is thrown about a lot but any souls game just requires patience and learning attack patterns of enemies. A newcomer will typically jump in expecting to blaze through enemies only to be taught early that the "fodder" enemies can kill you in a few hits too.
The game gives you multiple ways to get past enemies and bosses so it's more about being open minded and smart. If you can't beat something one way, don't spend the next 3 hours repeating the same mistake hoping for that lucky break. stop, think and then return to the obstacle with a new approach. Use items like firebombs, a different weapon style etc.
And then, if you're still stuck you can level up more. Its an rpg of course, so like most games in this genre you can make yourself stronger than the part your stuck on and if that fails, you can summon co-op players.
The souls series are not impossiblly difficult. Its punishing but easy to overcome if you're willing to learn from your mistakes. So there shouldn't be a case where a player never "gets good".
The game gives you multiple ways to get past enemies and bosses so it's more about being open minded and smart. If you can't beat something one way, don't spend the next 3 hours repeating the same mistake hoping for that lucky break. stop, think and then return to the obstacle with a new approach. Use items like firebombs, a different weapon style etc.
And then, if you're still stuck you can level up more. Its an rpg of course, so like most games in this genre you can make yourself stronger than the part your stuck on and if that fails, you can summon co-op players.
The souls series are not impossiblly difficult. Its punishing but easy to overcome if you're willing to learn from your mistakes. So there shouldn't be a case where a player never "gets good".
shouamabane
Member
I have arthritis in both hands and wrists and I got good. But then I do come from the NES generation.
hydrophilic attack
Member
Exactly. You can summon in order to not git gud, supporting the idea that summons existing allows you to never git gud
Drillary Clinton
Banned
Which means you don't NEED to git gud
Bloodporne
Member
100% this.
It's a bit off topic and I know it's mainly due to fatigue probably, but I just somehow can't finish DS3. It feels really weird because every time I put it back down, I have to actively remind myself of the fact that it is objectively a fantastic game in its own right. Whatever eccentric, inspired magic glued together Demons/Dark1/Bloodborne isn't happening for me.
I had already put it down for almost a year at Aldritch/
Anor Londo
DeaconKnowledge
Member
The recommendation I would make is learn to level your character.
I struggled mightily my first Souls run because I leveled my character like shit (put points into the wrong attributes for the weapons and playstyle I was using) plus stuck to low level weaponry for too long (Drake Sword). I restarted, taught myself how the weapons upgrade system actually worked, and only put points into attributes that would directly benefit my chosen weapon and I blew through the game.
I'm playing Bloodborne now, and using the same strategy the game is a lot easier than it would have been had I gone in blind.
I struggled mightily my first Souls run because I leveled my character like shit (put points into the wrong attributes for the weapons and playstyle I was using) plus stuck to low level weaponry for too long (Drake Sword). I restarted, taught myself how the weapons upgrade system actually worked, and only put points into attributes that would directly benefit my chosen weapon and I blew through the game.
I'm playing Bloodborne now, and using the same strategy the game is a lot easier than it would have been had I gone in blind.
hydrophilic attack
Member
Which is what I've said from the beginning
I've been agreeing with you all this time, lol
I said that I've observed, first hand, by invading scrubs playing co-op, that summoning allows you to get by without getting gud
Drillary Clinton
Banned
I was confused as hell 😂
But yeah basically what you said. Those systems exist for a reason.
Raptomex
Member
I have all of the Soulsborne games and I haven't beaten a single one. I suck but I don't think I invest enough time to really learn. I also get easily frustrated having to repeat the same areas and battles over and over. But I go into these games knowing that's going to happen. I got the furthest in Bloodborne but I guess I just don't have the patience to push through. I do want to complete at least one of them one of these days.
I couldn't care less about Dark Souls, I didn't like the first game at all, don't like the story, don't like the gameplay, for all I care it could be erased from history and I wouldn't weep a single tear 
Bloodborne is a different case however, I care for it and I am a bit angry about it being unfair at times and not having enough checkpoints tends to be frustrating and can artificially increase the playtime. For example, I was clearing the Forbidden Woods the other day and had about 50k Blood Echoes, which is much at my current level. The way to the boss is rather long even with the shortcut and so the game seems to expect me to kill the boss on first try(which I luckily did) or second try if I don't want to lose all my blood echoes(maybe I would have died on the way and have lost it anyway...).
OR alternatively run back to the latern to spend my echoes and have the whole map reset full of monsters. -There's a very simple solution to my problem: have the Checkpoint before the boss fight not after you've beaten it.
Well other than that I am enjoying the game pretty much, there were a few frustrating moments where I've lost 20-30K Echoes that will eventually cost the game a perfect 10/10 from me but I guess the developers don't really care if I give them a 9 or a 10.
Bloodborne is a different case however, I care for it and I am a bit angry about it being unfair at times and not having enough checkpoints tends to be frustrating and can artificially increase the playtime. For example, I was clearing the Forbidden Woods the other day and had about 50k Blood Echoes, which is much at my current level. The way to the boss is rather long even with the shortcut and so the game seems to expect me to kill the boss on first try(which I luckily did) or second try if I don't want to lose all my blood echoes(maybe I would have died on the way and have lost it anyway...).
OR alternatively run back to the latern to spend my echoes and have the whole map reset full of monsters. -There's a very simple solution to my problem: have the Checkpoint before the boss fight not after you've beaten it.
Well other than that I am enjoying the game pretty much, there were a few frustrating moments where I've lost 20-30K Echoes that will eventually cost the game a perfect 10/10 from me but I guess the developers don't really care if I give them a 9 or a 10.
You can beat the games without getting "gud"... I know from experience. I beat Demon's Souls and most of Dark Souls before realizing the impact of weapon scaling, I-frames and several other very important game elements.
The games really are about adapting to the slower, more intentional pace of combat and managing stamina. Anyone with a passive ability to play video games is likely capable of getting good enough to beat it. It falls more on patience and focus than it does inherent ability.
Edit: More relevant to the OP: It seems you have gotten pretty good, you just don't enjoy the experience of patiently taking down bosses through dying and learning. If you don't enjoy that it's kind of just a mater of preference, because I (and many others) enjoying it quite a bit.There's nothing wrong with that thought, just difference in what people enjoy.
The games really are about adapting to the slower, more intentional pace of combat and managing stamina. Anyone with a passive ability to play video games is likely capable of getting good enough to beat it. It falls more on patience and focus than it does inherent ability.
Edit: More relevant to the OP: It seems you have gotten pretty good, you just don't enjoy the experience of patiently taking down bosses through dying and learning. If you don't enjoy that it's kind of just a mater of preference, because I (and many others) enjoying it quite a bit.There's nothing wrong with that thought, just difference in what people enjoy.
MegaSackman
Member
You can outlevel the games and break them, but it'll never be completely easy.
True, it's more a matter of getting patient than getting gud for the most part
To some extent, but I guess 99 is the limit and reaching that will take you ages, also there is a high diminishing return on leveling over a certain point. I am currently at 30 points in my HP and the next point will give me less than the last one and this will continue until you don't really gain much for each point...
You can accept you are not good at a type of game and still enjoy it or alternatively abandon it and play something else. I am pretty awful at platformers but like almost everything about Shovel Knight. Great music, great graphics, good ideas. But because I am bad at it, it was an incredibly frustrating experience for me. I feel good saying I completed it and I got better along the way but when I first played it, at one point I rage quit and uninstalled the game, that's how much it pissed me off to fall into a pit the millionth time because I got bad RNG and hit an enemy that pushed me back. For a long time I could not upgrade anything because I couldn't get thru levels without dying and losing all my money in the process.
Games like these do require a lot of practice so I imagine if you have less time to spend then it might take you a long time to "git gud". I had a rough time with my first run thru Bloodborne (my first Souls game), wanting to throw my controller in the corner several times. Now I've played thru it several times and had a lot of fun even if some bosses are still pretty hard. Souls games have become my favorite series and I've played all but Demon's Souls.
almostjuliuscaesar
Member
do they not exist past this level? should i know how to beat them?