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UFC 235: Jones vs. Smith
- Thread starter Unknown Quantity
- Start date
TrainedRage
Banned
Good stuff tonight. Im spent.
Unknown Quantity
Member
Santos would be an awesome match and maybe J. Walker in the mix by the end of the year.
Off to bed. 6am here. Thanks and take care all.
manfestival
Member
gall's cardio lasts just as long as I do in bed
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
Askren said he doesn’t want rematch with Robbie, Dana scoffed at that and said that’s what the UFC wants. Askren wants winner of Till/Masvidal. Dana wants rematch, I want rematch too
Dana says the Brock fight is DC’s and DC’s alone, says Jon isn’t too excited about idea of going to heavyweight, sounds like Dana loves Santos vs Jones
Dana says he hears Johnny Walker’s shoulder is fine, but will wait for MRI results on Monday
I imagine it will go Santos vs Jones, and DC will fight someone at HW in that span, after that I gotta imagine you do trilogy fight unless one of them loses, but even then you still might do it. By that time if Walker has won two more fights he’s probably next for title shot.
Askren's own words
Askren criticizes Usman for "just pushing against Tyron and not doing much," but then admits he has a bias.
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Unknown Quantity
Member
Askrens path to the title is less complicated now that Woodley is out of the picture, would've preferred him at 185 (his ONE ch weight class) then we'd see ultimate Dad bod.
Jones had too much for Smith and in hindsight maybe should've taken the dq (how cheaters lose). LHW is exciting and the hammer next for Jones then J. Walker if he survives that.
Zabit is now top 10, would love to see him fight Ortega/Aldo and then Holloway. (Aldo would be awesome).
Zhang was the only other standout for me, she moves to top 10 now and hopefully breaks into contention after next fight.
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JareBear: Remastered
Banned
Askren's is added to my above post.
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
Robbie's own words "I wasn't choking," "He was squeezing so hard I figured just let him burn out his arms."
Hmmmmm. I know any fighter is gonna defend himself in this kind of situation but I have more respect for Robbie than the "average fighter." He isn't one to complain normally.
I just don't know what a ref is supposed to do there. If a ref lets an unconscious guy continue to get choked while already unconscious, that's a terrible terrible look, worse look than early stoppage imo
Hmmmmm. I know any fighter is gonna defend himself in this kind of situation but I have more respect for Robbie than the "average fighter." He isn't one to complain normally.
I just don't know what a ref is supposed to do there. If a ref lets an unconscious guy continue to get choked while already unconscious, that's a terrible terrible look, worse look than early stoppage imo
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JareBear: Remastered
Banned
final thoughts
The Big Winners:
Johnny Walker - Three straight walkoff KOs in the first round, this one against a ranked opponent. This will be a case of needing the right matchmaking going forward, don't wanna push him TOO fast, but you have a bonafide star in the making here. I think Latifi or Reyes would be great matchup next
Usman - Dominated a guy who on paper was better than him everywhere. A guy who, with a win, would have been considered second best WW of all time (probably). I actually liked his post-fight interview. Cute kid, and he wasn't super shticky. Was earnest and pretty humble. Colby vs Usman will be GREAT. Great interviews, great conferences, great matchup. Colby won't get pushed up against cage and give up like Tyron did. Usman at his post-fight presser: I want to fuck up Colby SO BAD. I believe him. I believe Colby too. Lets get it on.
Pedro Munhoz - Guy was already a feared grappler, took Cody Bombs and walked through them, knocked Cody out cold. That division is STACKED
The Big Losers:
Tyron Woodley: What the fuck, man? He was on verge of being considered an all-time great, and he fucking straight up gave up. He was absolutely dominated. Looked slower, looked weaker, looked like he didn't care. Now you have to question Woodley's true greatness. Is Woodley just an explosive guy with a huge right hand? His losses all look the same, gets pushed against fence against Rory, Nate, and Usman, can't fire off any offense, gets smothered and gives up. Look at his wins. He either waits and lands the huge Right (TIll, both Wonderboy fights, Robbie) or just out-athletes a guy (Maia).
Cursed Walkout Songs: Don't EVER walk out to "We Will Rock You," or "Rocky Theme," or "Your Own Shitty Song." Cursed. Kiss of death. NEVER works out.
Micky Gall: What the fuck dude? This guy looked like straight up SHIT against a guy half his size, twice his age, etc. He didn't look like a UFC fighter, to me.
Neutral/Lukewarm:
Lawler and Askren: I consider this fight a draw. Exceptional moments from both guys, Robbie with the inhuman slam and flurry, Askren for surviving and grinding it out rest of round. Was Lawler out? I don't know. Run this bad boy back. Do it again. I feel impressed by both guys, for different reasons, after that fight
Cody Garbrandt: I am not ready to stick a fork in Cody yet. The accidental headbutt changed the fight. Cody is still young. Cody bulldozed his way to the top and hes not fought two guys he can't bulldoze and he needs to go back to the technical genius he showed against Dom Cruz. That was an AMAZING fight. Cody has the tools to out-technique anyone at 135 not named Dillashaw.
Zabit: You might say, wow this guy just beat the insanely tough and respected, and highly ranked, Jeremy Stephens. How can he not be super hot? It's a great win, but this isn't the first time I have seen Zabit seem to slow down in the third round. Seems like he either coasts in the third, or he gets figured out and starts getting cracked. We need to see him in a five rounder next. That division is stacked too, plenty of killers to match him up against.
Random thought:
I said this when Jon first tweeted about a Lesnar fight, and when Lesnar got in cage to call out DC:
Lesnar is gonna get embarrassed by either guy. Dominant Brock was a long time ago. Surgeries ago, years ago, steroids ago (pre-USADA, and unlike Jones, Brock doesn't seem to have a get out of jail free card for PED usage).
Lesnar's last fight was a somewhat sloppy win over pretty old Mark Hunt. I love Mark Hunt, and it was a good win, but I wasn't blown away. Lesnar can get Jones down, but Jones is so far beyond Lesnar from a skills perspective, he will get submitted. Jon can submit Brock from his back, from on top, anywhere. And I think DC will just straight up knock Lesnar out. I don't think he stands a chance against either guy
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Edit
Two questions for everybody:
A.) how would you have felt if Anthony Smith didn’t continue after the illegal knee and got DW victory over Jones
And
B.) Who do you favor in Usman vs Covington?
The Big Winners:
Johnny Walker - Three straight walkoff KOs in the first round, this one against a ranked opponent. This will be a case of needing the right matchmaking going forward, don't wanna push him TOO fast, but you have a bonafide star in the making here. I think Latifi or Reyes would be great matchup next
Usman - Dominated a guy who on paper was better than him everywhere. A guy who, with a win, would have been considered second best WW of all time (probably). I actually liked his post-fight interview. Cute kid, and he wasn't super shticky. Was earnest and pretty humble. Colby vs Usman will be GREAT. Great interviews, great conferences, great matchup. Colby won't get pushed up against cage and give up like Tyron did. Usman at his post-fight presser: I want to fuck up Colby SO BAD. I believe him. I believe Colby too. Lets get it on.
Pedro Munhoz - Guy was already a feared grappler, took Cody Bombs and walked through them, knocked Cody out cold. That division is STACKED
The Big Losers:
Tyron Woodley: What the fuck, man? He was on verge of being considered an all-time great, and he fucking straight up gave up. He was absolutely dominated. Looked slower, looked weaker, looked like he didn't care. Now you have to question Woodley's true greatness. Is Woodley just an explosive guy with a huge right hand? His losses all look the same, gets pushed against fence against Rory, Nate, and Usman, can't fire off any offense, gets smothered and gives up. Look at his wins. He either waits and lands the huge Right (TIll, both Wonderboy fights, Robbie) or just out-athletes a guy (Maia).
Cursed Walkout Songs: Don't EVER walk out to "We Will Rock You," or "Rocky Theme," or "Your Own Shitty Song." Cursed. Kiss of death. NEVER works out.
Micky Gall: What the fuck dude? This guy looked like straight up SHIT against a guy half his size, twice his age, etc. He didn't look like a UFC fighter, to me.
Neutral/Lukewarm:
Lawler and Askren: I consider this fight a draw. Exceptional moments from both guys, Robbie with the inhuman slam and flurry, Askren for surviving and grinding it out rest of round. Was Lawler out? I don't know. Run this bad boy back. Do it again. I feel impressed by both guys, for different reasons, after that fight
Cody Garbrandt: I am not ready to stick a fork in Cody yet. The accidental headbutt changed the fight. Cody is still young. Cody bulldozed his way to the top and hes not fought two guys he can't bulldoze and he needs to go back to the technical genius he showed against Dom Cruz. That was an AMAZING fight. Cody has the tools to out-technique anyone at 135 not named Dillashaw.
Zabit: You might say, wow this guy just beat the insanely tough and respected, and highly ranked, Jeremy Stephens. How can he not be super hot? It's a great win, but this isn't the first time I have seen Zabit seem to slow down in the third round. Seems like he either coasts in the third, or he gets figured out and starts getting cracked. We need to see him in a five rounder next. That division is stacked too, plenty of killers to match him up against.
Random thought:
I said this when Jon first tweeted about a Lesnar fight, and when Lesnar got in cage to call out DC:
Lesnar is gonna get embarrassed by either guy. Dominant Brock was a long time ago. Surgeries ago, years ago, steroids ago (pre-USADA, and unlike Jones, Brock doesn't seem to have a get out of jail free card for PED usage).
Lesnar's last fight was a somewhat sloppy win over pretty old Mark Hunt. I love Mark Hunt, and it was a good win, but I wasn't blown away. Lesnar can get Jones down, but Jones is so far beyond Lesnar from a skills perspective, he will get submitted. Jon can submit Brock from his back, from on top, anywhere. And I think DC will just straight up knock Lesnar out. I don't think he stands a chance against either guy
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Edit
Two questions for everybody:
A.) how would you have felt if Anthony Smith didn’t continue after the illegal knee and got DW victory over Jones
And
B.) Who do you favor in Usman vs Covington?
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KOMANI
KOMANI
Usman. Convington follows the gameplan well as he showed against RDA, but i dont think he’s got a plan B or can improvise. He’s going to need that against Usman who constantly works.
Quick shoutout to my favorite youtuber
12Goblins
Lil’ Gobbie
i mean, robbie says he couldnt hear herb because both ears were covered. which we know is simply not true. i'm not saying robbie is lying, but for a brief moment he was out and had no idea he went unconscious. this is nothing new in mma ...
people are arguing that his arm going limp is him resting it to save energy. that says it all right there ;[
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JareBear: Remastered
Banned
Diego claims Gall bit him
12Goblins
Lil’ Gobbie
gall is known for being a mediocre fighter, gassing out quickly, and then trying to cheat his way to victory
this literally happens in all his fights
For me the biggest question of the night is, between Jones and Usman who is on more PEDs??? I cant figure it out
this literally happens in all his fights
For me the biggest question of the night is, between Jones and Usman who is on more PEDs??? I cant figure it out
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mekes
Member
Off day and wrong tactics? I never thought this would happen. So used to seeing Tyron come in extremely prepared for all scenarios. Usman was like a mixture of Cain and Khabib.
LOL at Cody. He’s making it hard to be a Cody fan. I wonder if he would move up a few weight classes and fight Justin Gaethje, who might just be his future self.
Cunth
Fingerlickin' Good!
Smith should have taken the DQ win in my opinion. Doesn’t matter how brave you are, if you take a knee to the head who knows how it affects your performance.
As for Askren/Lawler rematch - I wouldn’t mind if it didn’t happen and Askren got someone else. I’m sure the UFC will make him do it though.
As for Askrens comments about Usman, I kinda agree. It was a dull win, and it felt like Usman was just continuously pinning a guy who wasn’t interested in fighting back. Woodleys in danger of looking like a one trick pony
As for Askren/Lawler rematch - I wouldn’t mind if it didn’t happen and Askren got someone else. I’m sure the UFC will make him do it though.
As for Askrens comments about Usman, I kinda agree. It was a dull win, and it felt like Usman was just continuously pinning a guy who wasn’t interested in fighting back. Woodleys in danger of looking like a one trick pony
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
The only reason I’m glad Smith didn’t (it would have been so ironic if Jones lost that way, AGAIN) is it would have bungled the LHW division and put it in hold again, which has already happened enough thanks to Jones, in the sense that they would have to do a rematch fight that probably wouldn’t be nearly as interesting as Santos, who seems more of a danger to Jones than Smith
Cunth
Fingerlickin' Good!
That’s true. I’m actually bored of Jones, which is funny to feel about a champion
highrider
Banned
Thoughts, Smith was neutralized by a very high fight IQ and length, it’s understandable. Dull fight.
Woodley looked terrible, there’s an issue in his preparation for sure.
Johnny Walker is really interesting and seriously needed at 205.
Cody has so much skill and speed, but he can’t bang with most fighters, he’s not very durable.
I just can’t bring myself to give a fuck about Ben, wrestling just bores me to death.
Woodley looked terrible, there’s an issue in his preparation for sure.
Johnny Walker is really interesting and seriously needed at 205.
Cody has so much skill and speed, but he can’t bang with most fighters, he’s not very durable.
I just can’t bring myself to give a fuck about Ben, wrestling just bores me to death.
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
What’s up with Ali Abdelaziz acting like he’s the one getting into the cage instead of the fighter he represents?
abstract alien
Member
Dana is looking at this with green tint over his eyes.
5secondrulesucks
Banned
lmao mickey gall is wack. hes not even gatekeeper level and should fucking be thanking cm punk every day for the rest of his life. also i love jon jones i dont know how people can not be excited for one of the if not the best mma fighter of all time. i dont even care if his fight may be boring and i wouldnt have liked to see a bleh fighter like anthony smith be the one to beat him. it was almost identical to when anderson was on top. so many people complained that a lot of his fights were "boring". its like okay some were duds but i dont care as long as you get to see the best do his thing. also im so fucking glad colby is back. hes gonna smash kumaru just you all wait and see
5secondrulesucks
Banned
i love circus antics and trash talk. being respectful is cool and all but telling someone to go fuck their mother is cooler
watching robbie vs ben again damn. i think if they did run it back ben will get murdered. as much as people dont want to admit there is a world of difference between competition between orgs. also herb dean is fucking absolute garbage. they really need to get this moron off big fights. hes blew it so many times i dont understand why hes still a ref. robbie was so much more athletic and vicious. ben literally had nothing.
100 percent askren isnt doing anything to anyone else in this division. till would murder him. i think a masvidal fight would be much easier for him though
watching robbie vs ben again damn. i think if they did run it back ben will get murdered. as much as people dont want to admit there is a world of difference between competition between orgs. also herb dean is fucking absolute garbage. they really need to get this moron off big fights. hes blew it so many times i dont understand why hes still a ref. robbie was so much more athletic and vicious. ben literally had nothing.
100 percent askren isnt doing anything to anyone else in this division. till would murder him. i think a masvidal fight would be much easier for him though
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Unknown Quantity
Member
Agree with most of what you posted.
Colby v Usman I'm hoping will be a banger. Usman did a great job draining Woodley, and some of the splits from ref for inactivity helped Woodley (those right hooks to the body looked pretty painful). I'll support Usman as he was humble in victory and sure would've been magnanimous in defeat.
I wouldn't have minded Jones losing to dq (no title changeover I believe). The LHW division would have recovered.
Askren I've already stated my opinion (no contest) and links to Herb no longer getting any ppv cards as he had two howlers that night (Askren and illegal kick to the head of Smith).
Zabit needs to work on Stamina but seems to have all the tools to become champ. Zhang also looked good.
manfestival
Member
I guess I must be a true fan. Zabit vs Stephens was one of my most hype fights of the night. I felt like I was one of the only people paying attention let alone doing the OOOOs and AAAAAs during the flurry of strikes. Round 3 performance still is worrying.
Same for Johnny Walker, I was watching super curious but only a few people were like whoa about the FLYING KNEE knockout(yeah its a TKO but cmon)! I still feel like Walker is up in the air as we have not seen him get tested. He is no Shane Carwin either.
Big props to Usman, I felt like I was the only person in the building cheering for him.
Overall: Great card and the only lackluster moment was really woodley's performance. Props to China for finally having someone compete at the highest level again.
It was also the night of the shoulders. I imagine lots of gyms are going to start implementing this into their gameplan as the 2 biggest winners used lots of shoulders.
Same for Johnny Walker, I was watching super curious but only a few people were like whoa about the FLYING KNEE knockout(yeah its a TKO but cmon)! I still feel like Walker is up in the air as we have not seen him get tested. He is no Shane Carwin either.
Big props to Usman, I felt like I was the only person in the building cheering for him.
Overall: Great card and the only lackluster moment was really woodley's performance. Props to China for finally having someone compete at the highest level again.
It was also the night of the shoulders. I imagine lots of gyms are going to start implementing this into their gameplan as the 2 biggest winners used lots of shoulders.
12Goblins
Lil’ Gobbie
honestly that fight was best case scenario for robbie. had askren as close as you can get to death and still somehow managed lose the fight. IMO that doesn't warrant a rematch ;[
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JareBear: Remastered
Banned
Zhang is good. Tecia is a tough opponent and Zhang was better everywhere.
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
Ben just called Colby a jabroni on MMA Hour, I like him 10x more now
manfestival
Member
It would be so good to see that fight go down. Also be good to see Ben get a title shot. The welterweight division has truly been a never ending cycle of awesome content. The most talent filled division always. GSP was truly the a master of his craft.
He looked out from Herb's PoV, I don't fault Herb. Robbie clearly wasn't out, but he has to understand that feigning unconsciousness to his opponent isn't the smartest strategy in an officiated fight.
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
Askren on Ariel’s show, live from Las Vegas airport lol
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Unknown Quantity
Member
Zabeast was cheered on at my gaf, and yeh we're all concerned with his stamina. Walker hasn't been tested yet. That knee and its timing and precision screamed smooth ass capoeira to us watching. Definitely great prospect if he can stop injuring himself.
The Askren decision was bad, but there is space to argue that the ref didn't want any serious injury and all that jazz. Coupled with bones fight and other decisions from the past I still want him relegated like that Brazilian ref.
Irobot82
Member
His hand free falling off the back of Ben's heads was a clear sign he was out, maybe for not that long but for sure he was out of a moment.
Fair enough. Certainly looked like he was out cold when I saw it, but it's extremely irregular to recover that quickly.
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
Woodley’s album drops today. Check out “Chaos Theory,” if you dare
Says he deserves a rematch like GSP got.
Slightly different scenarios.
One was a flash knockout. The other was a five round embarrassment
Says he deserves a rematch like GSP got.
Slightly different scenarios.
One was a flash knockout. The other was a five round embarrassment
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
According to Joe, Cowboy/Conor fell apart because “it would have been a co-main event.” I’m assuming Conor’s side is deadset on main events only, as Cowboy doesn’t seem like a guy to give a fuck.
If true, I’m not sure what’s next for Conor. Vast majority of PPV mains are title shots. What title shot would be next for Conor? Immediate rematch of a mauling? Winner of KHABIB vs Poirer/Max?
Ehhhh
Also
Catch the interview of Diego Sanchez on today’s Ariel show
He mentions being God’s eagle, being rejuvenated by “magic,” and putting the pain of his divorce in dudes faces
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Krappadizzle
Member
Wait, so Cowboy/Connor is off? Honestly, there isn't much else I want to see from Connor right now. I wanna see him prove that he deserves to be fighting the absolute top. He straight got tossed around like a little brother and I am just over his whole persona. He needs a win or two before I even believe he's close to being the same fighter before Mayweather changed his life.
I'd be down for watching Diaz beat his ass for a third time though, so if not Cowboy, it should be Diaz.
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JareBear: Remastered
Banned
Apparently it’s off. It was a “done deal” 3 weeks ago, but I guess main event vs co-main event was the sticking point
Irobot82
Member
Agreed. Gracie jujitsu has a great breakdown of it and how Robbie got into that situation. They did a good job explaining the fight. It's certainly controversial.
Unknown Quantity
Member
After hearing what Askren has said about the incident, that he loosened his grip slightly in response to Herb and that may have eased Lawler back into consciousness.
I'm adjusting my view. Still want demotion of Herb, but no longer think it's a no contest. I believe in muscle memory, that when you train often enough your body can react instinctively. Even when the mind freezes your body can react, I learnt that doing some krav maga, reading I, Jedi and general reflex work.
A rematch would be nuts, Lawler could have won that if he persisted but hats off to Ben, he went into the grind and came out the winner.
I'm adjusting my view. Still want demotion of Herb, but no longer think it's a no contest. I believe in muscle memory, that when you train often enough your body can react instinctively. Even when the mind freezes your body can react, I learnt that doing some krav maga, reading I, Jedi and general reflex work.
A rematch would be nuts, Lawler could have won that if he persisted but hats off to Ben, he went into the grind and came out the winner.
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
Lot of good matchups for Ben.
Ben vs Maia (elite grappling contest!
Ben vs Colby
Ben bs Usman for title
I wouldn’t be mad at either of them
Robbie bs Wonderboy/Till is fun too
Ben vs Maia (elite grappling contest!
Ben vs Colby
Ben bs Usman for title
I wouldn’t be mad at either of them
Robbie bs Wonderboy/Till is fun too
Ribi
Member
so usman is full of shit right? This is the second time I have checked Usman's medical suspension after hes claimed to have had a broken something after a fight and both times there has been 0 reference to that injury in the report. Claims broken leg = 0 mention in report and youd be damned to find any journalist asking about it. He even was shown in a casino the night after fine and dandy while the night before he was limping like he was LeBron. The first time this happened he claimed a broken arm and again no reports after the fight and 0 reporters asked questions. I think hes a liar
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
I’ve gone back and forth myself on what I think of the stoppage and final result.
It’s one of those things I gotta just accept or it will drive me crazy.
Great for Ben for getting that dominant position on Robbie, regardless, and great for Robbie for looking outstanding before that point. Robbie will probably fight sooner than Ben, he absorbed virtually no damage
Unknown Quantity
Member
Hopefully this plays out without too much drama. He said he was running at 30% and still won. Give him 3-4 months and then we can start getting upset. Normally if there's a long layoff there's an interim fight, but Colby (Hart) still has that (lol).
Yeah Robbie just needs a neck massage, Ben a little more recovery.