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Turns out people are wrong about the ‘squeeze through cracks’ loading screens
- Thread starter remember_spinal
- Start date
- Game Dev Hardware
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
*Cough* cross-gen
/thread
/thread
They have to find something to bitch about and can't find much so it ends up being the most mundane non issue that they decide to concentrate on. Go look at the Scorn thread and see if anyone is complaining about squeezing through a crack or mostly walking. You would be hard pressed to find anyone.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Sure, there can be a combination of reasons, but if it's purely for game design purposes can they are least be super short? What's annoying are the 10 second ones that are VERY obviously there to mask loading. If you need one for preventing the player from going back or whatever, make it a quick 1 second squeeze. Or have it be a ledge you have to drop from and then can't get back up again, or a door that can't be opened from the other side, or have some rubble fall down and block the path, or whatever. Just don't make it ANNOYING.
TheGodfather07
Member
The only game it actually annoyed me a little was ff7 remake. It's a bit excessive in that game.
StealthGoblin
Banned
Clearly you haven’t played as many games as you think you have. Tomb Raider, Spider-Man, modern Final Fantasy games etc all use similar techniques.
As an aside of this - which developers of 3rd person action games are as heavily awarded in the genre? The games they make are top tier for a variety of reasons including pacing.
I’d take Uncharted, TLOU and GOW over almost every other 3rd person action game because of the overall presentation. The other games you may have played may have had fewer or no sections like this, but I’m willing to bet they are poorer games overall with much poorer technical achievement.
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The only game w squeeze through I ever played was Fallen Order and it didnt bother me at all. I liked some of the environments and how your lightsaber affected them, and the droid on your back would do interesting things too. Although I didnt consider it was a loading device until after I beat the game, but they were so short I dont see how that bothers anyone.
Banjo64
cumsessed
Yeah I’ve played the modern Tomb Raider trilogy and Spider-Man and MM too. As I said, it’s mainly ND and SM overusing it.
Define 3rd person action games? The Witcher 3, From Soft games, Bethesda games, Insomniac’s games - funny question though, I only really care about quality, not the number of awards.
Fart Knight
Al Pachinko, Konami President
I think part of that long squeeze is to deter you from wanting to go back. The short alternative is a door that mysteriously locks behind you
Drizzlehell
Banned
'Squeeze through crack' sections are like the 'mirror jump scare' of video games. It's not really something to get worked up about but at the same time, it's such an overused cliche at this point that it's just kinda distracting when you see it.
And just like when you're anticipating a bad guy jumping the hero with a musical sting at the end of the mirror trick, all you can think about during a butt crack squeeze is whether or not someone's gonna grab your character at the end of this animation.
And just like when you're anticipating a bad guy jumping the hero with a musical sting at the end of the mirror trick, all you can think about during a butt crack squeeze is whether or not someone's gonna grab your character at the end of this animation.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Why couldn't a very short squeeze do the same? The long ones are to mask loading, no doubt.
YeulEmeralda
Member
Cyberpunk is the first open world game I've played since having an SSD and it's great.
Certain narratives stick to certain games and not others yes. But i don't think it's against Playstation games, quite the opposite when you see some reactions.
It's not huge criticism, it's not because a game will obviously be very good that people can't question design choices.
And comparing what is Ragnarok to God of War 2018 and Elden Ring to Dark Souls is laughable.
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Neff
Member
The main problem is me having to hold 'up' for a minute while my previously able character edges slowly through an obvious data checkpoint. It looks and feels ridiculous and disconnects me from my tactile relationship with the game.
Just have my character move by themselves as soon as I commit to it and I'll shut up about them.
Just have my character move by themselves as soon as I commit to it and I'll shut up about them.
StealthGoblin
Banned
It’s a good job that Uncharted, God of War and TLOU are fantastic games as well then right?
None of the studios you have mentioned produce tight, excellently paced games as part of their MO. Bethesda games are good, but dear lord they are bloated. The Witcher is open world so it’s pacing is also poor. Good game, but across the board it isn’t as impressive an experience.
Love From Soft games but let’s not pretend their narrative is anything to shout about. They have fewer components to execute on excellently. The same with games like Zelda which are near and dear to me, but I know the narratives, VA, pacing and technical achievement overall isn’t much to shout about.
The games you claim ‘overuse’ the technique are actually doing some clever things *while* you are doing them, and increasingly so narratively. Thresholds crossed in a narrative sense, locking off areas behind you for narrative reasons, giving exposition about the world (Mimir) etc
Far better than the implementations in FF and Tomb Raider.
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The good ones allow some time to turn back but unfortunately not all. The couple second squeeze for me is an indication that I'm committing to no back tracking once I reach the end. If it were an instant hop I wouldn't know to be honest. Anyway they really don't bother me at all. It's 3 seconds in an hours long game and it can often add to the atmosphere of going to some secluded place. Don't see why some people bitch about it.
NeoIkaruGAF
Gold Member
Who knows, maybe some people are really sick of this? And the fact that this discussion is happening as GoW is about to release is because very high-profile releases should be held to a higher standard and maybe find alternative solutions to old problems?
Why should we go by the assumption that “dev I like very much says this is very handy, so if they use this it’s the best there is and who am I to complain?”
But no, of course the defence force are all about “muh immersion” and “so what award-winning game did you develop again, mate?”
The best thing is that the thread is clearly about damage control, as of course this is right on cue with GoW releasing. But somehow this is being turned around to make some others sound like ignorant crybabies with no first-party games to play that have nothing better to do than find flaws in the upcoming PS GOTY contender…
I’ll wait for you all in the inevitable “there’s no squeezing through cracks in Tears of the Kingdom” thread.
I’ll have my popcorn ready
Why should we go by the assumption that “dev I like very much says this is very handy, so if they use this it’s the best there is and who am I to complain?”
But no, of course the defence force are all about “muh immersion” and “so what award-winning game did you develop again, mate?”
The best thing is that the thread is clearly about damage control, as of course this is right on cue with GoW releasing. But somehow this is being turned around to make some others sound like ignorant crybabies with no first-party games to play that have nothing better to do than find flaws in the upcoming PS GOTY contender…
I’ll wait for you all in the inevitable “there’s no squeezing through cracks in Tears of the Kingdom” thread.
I’ll have my popcorn ready
I swear Nintendo, if there’s a single loading crack in TOTK…
RoadHazard
Gold Member
It's a lot more than three seconds in many games.
Thebonehead
Banned
Combine 30fps and squeezing through a crack.
tommib
Member
I love a good toned crack.
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tommib
Member
We’ll always have GOAT Bayonetta.
Yoboman
Member
But games use all of those and more. Squeeze spaces is just an encompassing term for a transition into a new area.
GOW probably only had literal squeezing through a cave wall a handful of times
Other times its opening a big gate or a bridge collapsing.
alabtrosMyster
Banned
They're just annoyed because the character is stuck and you don't have control. Sometimes people who don't like one thing forget to see why it exists at all, having a break somewhere is a good thing. Having enclosed areas (quite big a lot of times) for fights is good too, because in openworld games where you don't have this you can always cheese the fichts, also it gives a direction to the fight (this is not just random stuff happening, so it's more coherent).
There only scenario where they cold be used as loading area is in the ps4 version... I just don't see why, in any scenario, any next gen system would need that much time to load something (anything).
So, the forum people are crazy and the dev is right
alabtrosMyster
Banned
Because they set the bar for the rest of the industry in many ways.
However this thread is strange, I wonder if that will transpire in some lazy review.
People kept complaining about backtracking, QTEs (guilty, but never easy ones), etc.
Gamers are whiners, sometimes they're just not that intelligent too.
You don't sound like someone who has played god of war.
That would explain a lot, that probably comes from an MS marketing or one of the Discords.
Yes, squeeze for more than 3 seconds and I completely forget what I was doing, drop three controller and go do something else, then get lost while walking down the street. This is just who I am.
I don't have a good response to give you guys, because the answer is in the tweet.
I'm willing to make fun of fat Thor or wonder how that little black girl ended up so far North without her parents (bad black parenting stereotype right there, that should come up in a socially minded review).
But this? You guys can probably do better, at least a little bit.
Torrent of Pork
Banned
All I know is be careful what you wish for. The Mass Effect 1 elevators sucked, but at least you got witty banter out of them. You know what you got in the sequels, load screens fucking everywhere.
Kokoloko85
Member
This becomes an issue when God of War Ragnarok is coming out… So does cross gen games….. But Elden Ring was fine.
You cant be more obvious with the bias lol
You cant be more obvious with the bias lol
Mobilemofo
Member
Just wanted to nip in and say I have no issue with the squeeze through thing. Often use it as a break to make brews, evaluate my strategy (and life 
)
)
A Most Virtuous Cat
Banned
This is just straight waffling. Squeeze-throughs are a relic from the old days of constrained resources and have no place on modern systems. End of.
Kokoloko85
Member
They try and kill the hype of every Playstation exclusive since 2020. Add that to shill reviewers and its pretty obvious
I think players have need for closure and making areas "less together" with narrow corridors or slow moving cracks supports that.
For example in Dragon's Dogma (which is capable of making wide open areas as well) there is narrow pass through the mountains from starting area to main hub area. This separates these areas in players mind as "now I'm finished with tutorial, real Dragons Dogma starts here".
For example in Dragon's Dogma (which is capable of making wide open areas as well) there is narrow pass through the mountains from starting area to main hub area. This separates these areas in players mind as "now I'm finished with tutorial, real Dragons Dogma starts here".
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DaGwaphics
Member
@01011001 the forced slow walks was one of the things that irked me about GoTG. In that particular case it did break the immersion. Seems like there would be thousands of different ways to stop a player from going backwards or forwards, find some that don't make it feel like you've quit playing. If it's a loading thing, they know how fast your character can move in general and how much time they need, create that tunnel, corridor, or path in the forest that is long enough to get the job done without altering the control over the player. If the player takes their time getting to the end or runs flat out wouldn't make a difference. At the very least, mix it up and don't keep doing the same thing over and over again.
Better yet, make a game out of it. Those something chasing you from behind segments can be fun.
Better yet, make a game out of it. Those something chasing you from behind segments can be fun.
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Razvedka
Banned
I can absolutely believe that 'crack squeezing' performs a variety of functions for a game developer. I struggle to believe, though, that tackling issues of loading wasn't its primary goal and everything else (all other 'benefits) isn't secondary to this primary function. Nor that there aren't better ways of achieving these other objectives thanks to new technologies.
FBeeEye
Banned
Asobo and other devs are still using last gen engines. Any game releasing this year was still targeting last gen systems early in their development, so the engine will still include these "hidden" loading screens.
This is baked into the game design so devs can't get around this. Asobo will have to use an updated engine targeting current gen storage specs and design the next game with this in mind. That's a 4-5 year deal there.
This is baked into the game design so devs can't get around this. Asobo will have to use an updated engine targeting current gen storage specs and design the next game with this in mind. That's a 4-5 year deal there.
Punished Miku
Gold Member
Should throw in some bathrooms instead. More realistic that Kratos would have to stop and drop some heat for a few minutes a couple times in 40 hrs.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
It's the price to pay for a "Seamless" experience without fade to black load screens.
MasterCornholio
Member
Well at least fade to black load screens are possible now. It's nice not having to sit through a type writer like with Village on PS4.
asdasdasdbb
Member
You have to do something. Platter drives are that slow. The cracks are definitely better than loading screens.
As for FF7R, it's only really obnoxious in the first chapter. They hide it better in the later chapters.
Crispy Gamer
Member
Shrugs i always felt it adds to the immersion its the only time you're that close with the character
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
The slums chapter is fucking atrocious with the slow 'we're hiding a load time here' stuff.
As someone said above, FFVII R is the one big notable game in recent years that made this trope very obvious.
I appreciated TLoU 2's approach where load times were hidden behind cut-scenes so you never experience a lul in your first run through. But if you are replaying the game and skip cut-scenes, you realize just how damn long the game needs to load from black. Some times it's as long as the cut-scenes that are used to mask it.