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[ChorizoPicozo]

Is Jez cool now?

 

[Daneel Elijah]

PC is a PS competitor too. Things as Steam Deck will release in next years, competing directly with consoles. So even if MS stop to make consoles, Sony would have to make a decent PS6 compared to PC from the same time.

Nintendo found a way to not do that. And I can see Sony does the same if they are truly alone in the console game space. Why loose money if you can have your console be profitable day one? Imagine a PS5 somewhere between the Xbox S and X. It would not change that much, just be a little worse than what could have been. And their studios would still do the best they can with that. Of course this would need a very arrogant Sony, and for the PC market to be even more bullshit with Nividia just scalping people themselves for that to happen.

 

[PharaoTutAnchAmun]

So shot they do something like this mid-gen. It would be way too disruptive. They could do it next gen. with the promise that cross-gen titles will only run on XSX and XSX 2.

I read your post again so i'am deleted my answer cous it was not related to your post...Oeps

 

[DaGwaphics]

If new games had more value than old games, and Game Pass gets a lot more Day 1 releases than PS+, then by that logic, Game Pass should have a higher sub count. But, it doesn't, because your theory isn't actually true. If new games had more inherent value than old games, then GTA5, COD etc. wouldn't keep outselling new releases in NPDs months after their initial releases.

Again you either can't follow the discussion or are just trying to dance around the fact you are not correct here.

PS+ Essentials isn't a game library service, The PS+ rental game catalog is limited to just PS+ extra and premium and unless Sony misinformed several of these regulatory boards GP actually has a sizable lead in this area (not counting the new core/gold subscribers). And again, individual games sales including GTA5 don't have much to do with the game rental subscriptions.

The facts are that the Extra and Premium members showed more interest in the new game in comparison to the old ones. Basic statement of fact there as provided by Sony.

 

[Team Andromeda]

No I'm saying it probably doesn't have the advantage that some think it does. Like if people are expecting 30 FPS vs 60FPS at the same settings they will probably be disappointed.

Its not weaker and we shouldn't be seeing some games run so bad, it seems to be an Unreal 4 issue. Don't know if that's down to XBox tools. Also for me, Xbox should allow developers to either make a Series X version and not have to support Series S having all the same main gameplay features

I hated the way MS held back the 360 for years with its silly no HardDrive mandate

 

[Stare-Bear]

 

[mckmas8808]

The majority of Sony PS5 games have also released on PS4. And virtually all of them have come or are coming to PC.

Your argument doesn’t hold up.

So on one hand we have people arguing that 60fps is better than 30fps for video games. But on the otherhand, we have people like analog_future clearly insinuating that playing the same games at 60fps doesn't matter at all. So who cares that the same game takes 2 minutes to load up, instead of 12 seconds right?

 

[analog_future]

So on one hand we have people arguing that 60fps is better than 30fps for video games. But on the otherhand, we have people like analog_future clearly insinuating that playing the same games at 60fps doesn't matter at all. So who cares that the same game takes 2 minutes to load up, instead of 12 seconds right?

Huh?

 

[MasterCornholio]

Its not weaker and we shouldn't be seeing some games run so bad, it seems to be an Unreal 4 issue. Don't know if that's down to XBox tools. Also for me, Xbox should allow developers to either make a Series X version and not have to support Series S having all the same main gameplay features

I hated the way MS held back the 360 for years with its silly no HardDrive mandate

Well your the only one that's saying it's weaker.

Anyways the power advantage is being shown in games but it might not be what people expect due to their expectations being unrealistic. Like the 30 vs 60 fps example that I used.

 

[King Dazzar]

Does anyone have the hardware sales split worldwide between XSX and XSS? Thanks.

 

[mckmas8808]

Hardware supply for X has been fine for a long, long time, and the S is just fine for the market it's being sold to. Doesn't matter what the hardcore say here, the casuals are happy with S at it's price point.

But why should MS care about the casuals at a launch of a console?

They are losing money Year over Year after buying Bethesda\Zenimax! How?

Huh?

Stop acting as if playing Horizon: FW on the PS5 is the same as playing it on the PS4.

 

[DaGwaphics]

Agreed on that GP isn't as nice service as PS+(OG Best Deal in Gaming since 2010), but EAplay definitely belongs to a lower tier block along with GamePass.

Haha. If I was going to go with an analogy I'd say so far GP is the corporation and PS+ (extra/premium) is more a lemonade stand on the side of the road. But, to each their own.

 

[vkbest]

Nintendo found a way to not do that. And I can see Sony does the same if they are truly alone in the console game space. Why loose money if you can have your console be profitable day one? Imagine a PS5 somewhere between the Xbox S and X. It would not change that much, just be a little worse than what could have been. And their studios would still do the best they can with that. Of course this would need a very arrogant Sony, and for the PC market to be even more bullshit with Nividia just scalping people themselves for that to happen.

Nintendo most profits are coming from their hardware and their first party titles. Sony most profits are coming from third party licensing model. You are comparing apples to oranges.

 

[EverydayBeast]

The naming one, x, etc. for a console wasn’t a smart move, btw the one looked like a VCR player. We saw 360 be successful despite being stung by the RROD.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

article "it isn't software, it's hardware"

goes on to write about skipping software, 'visuals' etc al of which is software.

wat ....

You should get him an updated script.

 

[King Dazzar]

The naming one, x, etc. for a console wasn’t a smart move, btw the one looked like a VCR player. We saw 360 be successful despite being stung by the RROD.

I thought the Xbox One X was an amazing bit of kit at the time. The enhancements push was excellent and lots of native 4k upgrades with hassle free HDR. I also thought the XSX initial launch was good. But since then it all seems to have fizzled out for me.

 

[Monkfish877]

All you have done with this post is prove that you are indeed blind to the truth. The hint is even there in the very article you posted:



And the truth is as follows, 2k and Activision were amongst those who were first to set higher game prices, not only in Europe, but worldwide:

2K breaks gaming’s de facto $60 ceiling, asks $70 for next-gen NBA 2K21

Inflation has eroded big-budget gaming’s $60 standard for about 15 years now.

arstechnica.com

Confirmed: The new Call of Duty will cost $70 on next-gen consoles | VGC

Activision confirms increased pricepoint for Black Ops Cold War…

www.videogameschronicle.com

So sony was second or third, does that still make it right?, also sony one upped Activision and 2k by making their games £70 instead of £65, so technically I was still right.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Agreed on that GP isn't as nice service as PS+(OG Best Deal in Gaming since 2010), but EAplay definitely belongs to a lower tier block along with GamePass.

I remember people saying EA Play was going to be a game changer for Xbox…

 

[Maxwell Jacob Friedman]

I told you all xbox has no identity over the last two generations. Playstation has the identity of high quality games aka the block buster summer movie, nintendo has the moveable console/handheld with quality titles, xbox has....nadda. If they were smart they shpuld have ditched the power narrative and never have released the Series X. Xbox should have focused on the S model and gamepass and being the welfare gaming model; low entry point, along with a subscription service with quanitity of titles to play. The fact they have the X, want the power narrative and also have a lower sku and high model muddles the message but also developing for a weaker system in mind now.

 

[Maxwell Jacob Friedman]

You really want to make the argumement that MS has done a goob job with Rare.

Perfect Dark has been in development for many fucking years undergoing constant issues....

Jesus Christ....

And they have crystal dynamics come in and taker over development, hell I bet the new Tomb Raider will be out before Perfect Dark. This is a MS issue, they proved they cant build there own studios and make good games, they literally have to buy them

 

[Daneel Elijah]

Nintendo most profits are coming from their hardware and their first party titles. Sony most profits are coming from third party licensing model. You are comparing apples to oranges.

And if Sony is the only one selling apples, they will try to sell oranges too, if you see what I mean. If XBox is gone, and Sony feels that they can do a subpar job, they will. Any monopoly works that way. But we are far from that. And it is not a probable future of course. I do believe that Sony will not want to loose hundreds of millions in profits if they can. Why should they? Look at Apple and Nividia prices. And imagine if they were even more dominant. Now imagine if Sony is the only one making consoles. And that somehow Nintendo did not rise with Xbox fall. Then I can see future playstation be weaker than they should. Or/ and with bad services, like a useless PS+ with awful games each month.

 

[twilo99]

All I know is I play my series way more than my ps5

Unacceptable behavior

 

[JohnnyFootball]

If RARE was developing Conker, Banjo and Prefect Dark, people would complain that it’s always the same. Like they do with Gears and Forza. Rare is doing great with a completely new ip but surprise….that’s not enough, we want old IPs now

I admire those that can defend 1 IP in a 15 year period. Stockholm syndrome is a very real thing.

 

[analog_future]

Stop acting as if playing Horizon: FW on the PS5 is the same as playing it on the PS4.

What in the fuck are you even talking about? Who said that?

Playing Horizon: FW on the PS4 is different from playing it on PS5, just like playing Starfield on Series S will be different from playing it on Series X.

What's your point?

 

[JohnnyFootball]

And if Sony is the only one selling apples, they will try to sell oranges too, if you see what I mean. If XBox is gone, and Sony feels that they can do a subpar job, they will. Any monopoly works that way. But we are far from that. And it is not a probable future of course. I do believe that Sony will not want to loose hundreds of millions in profits if they can. Why should they? Look at Apple and Nividia prices. And imagine if they were even more dominant. Now imagine if Sony is the only one making consoles. And that somehow Nintendo did not rise with Xbox fall. Then I can see future playstation be weaker than they should. Or/ and with bad services, like a useless PS+ with awful games each month.

Most rational people want Xbox to be successful for the reasons you mentioned above. I do not want Gamepass to be the future at all, though. I want that to flop or get scaled back. Day 1 AAA games is not sustainable without a heroic turnaround in subscription counts paying $14.99 a month.

My frustration comes from their mismanagement and inability to properly support their studios with leadership. MS has tried to solve this problem by throwing money at it. But if you throw money at people who waste money, you just continue to waste money.

How Matt Booty and quite frankly Phil Spencer have managed to keep their jobs is beyond me.

 

[Maxwell Jacob Friedman]

Good point, now exclude the PS4 (re-)releases.

No doubt about quality of games but frequency on PS5 is quiet low and as you noticed, we are down to one title in 2023.

What I wanted to point out, that Microsoft could do much better with that amount of studios. Sony output arrived to the bare minimum on quantity and I expect that to change starting next year.
We are already at 3 titles from Microsoft this year, but one of them is a forgettable co-op shooter and the other one the worst minecraft ever.

Colin has recently stated with his sources and seeing playstations future portfolio sony is on the verge of releasing 2 first party bangers a year, also along with exclusive third party games as well. When that happens itll drown out MS completely. Sony has done THIS well and have grown on hardware YOY substantially with minium title releases.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

The majority of Sony PS5 games have also released on PS4. And virtually all of them have come or are coming to PC.

Your argument doesn’t hold up.

So…fucking…what.

What does it matter that a PS exclusive game is available on both consoles?

The experience is vastly superior on a PS5 than it is a PS4. This idea that I shouldn’t be able to enjoy God of War Ragnarok at 4K/60 because someone else has the means to play it at 1080p/30 is just bitching to bitch.

I personally would prefer cross gen studios focus on making the PS5 run with the highest resolution and frame rate possible instead of adding features that might look a little better but rank the frame rate where we are left with a console games back to being at 30 fps.

I never see PC gamers with 4090s bitching that a game that they can play at 4K/120 with ray tracing that other gamers with a 1060 can play the same at 720p/30 fps.

Help me understand.

 

[analog_future]

So…fucking…what.

What does it matter that a PS exclusive game is available on both consoles?

The experience is vastly superior on a PS5 than it is a PS4.

I never see PC gamers with 4090s bitching that a game that they can play at 4K/120 with ray tracing that other gamers with a 1060 can play the same at 720p/30 fps.

Help me understand.

The article this thread is about focused on the idea that the Series S is "holding back current gen games".

Yet the fact that some of the best looking games, Like Horizon FW, are cross-generational, and the fact that nearly all Sony exclusives are now coming to PCs (including PCs with lower specs than the Series S), tells us that the "Series S is holding back current gen games" is a fabricated story that holds no merit.

That's the point I'm making.

 

[Astray]

So essentially their bid for Activision really is a hail Mary for the division.

If it doesn't have the desired impact then the writing is on the wall, but I don't think anyone is ready for that conversation.

Jim Collins - Books - How the Mighty Fall

STAGE 4: GRASPING FOR SALVATION
The cumulative peril and/or risks gone bad of Stage 3 assert themselves, throwing the enterprise into a sharp decline visible to all. The critical question is: How does its leadership respond? By lurching for a quick salvation or by getting back to the disciplines that brought about greatness in the first place? Those who grasp for salvation have fallen into Stage 4. Common "saviors" include a charismatic visionary leader, a bold but untested strategy, a radical transformation, a dramatic cultural revolution, a hoped-for blockbuster product, a "game-changing" acquisition, or any number of other silver-bullet solutions. Initial results from taking dramatic action may appear positive, but they do not last.

The red part is basically describing Xbox in the past half decade.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

The article this thread is about focused on the idea that the Series S is "holding back current gen games".

Yet the fact that some of the best looking games, Like Horizon FW, are cross-generational, and the fact that nearly all Sony exclusives are now coming to PCs (including PCs with lower specs than the Series S), tells us that the "Series S is holding back current gen games" is a fabricated story that holds no merit.

That's the point I'm making.

Ok, that is fair enough. I just get really annoyed when I talk about how Sony has done well in the exclusives department and someone mentions that most of those games are on PS4. Like somehow I am supposed to feel that the experience I get from those games playing on PS5 is drastically different if weren't on PS4. That might be true, but I view the PS5 and XSX generation as about performance and less about features. I just want a console experience that offers at least 60 fps at 4K/1440p. I am pleased that most developers have prioritized giving us that option, which is not available on PS4/X1.

We have also reached a point in graphics fidelity of diminishing returns. I just finished the Witcher 3 last night. A game released in 2015 still looks breathtaking and runs well without all of the bells and whistles. Once all the bells and whistles are turned on, it doesn't look vastly different. Witcher 3 does look noticeably outdated in hair and character models. It is amusing that they have a rotation of similar face models for generic NPCs. That's really the only area that it's aged. I am content if games stayed that good looking and developers focused on just squeezing out more performance.

 

[solidus12]

 

[hinch7]

No its software. Its always software, but you get silly articles like this to damage control - its Jez Cordon after all.

Software sells hardware but mindshare is also important. Xbox just doesn't have the pull that PlayStation has. Consumers are reluctant to move onto another ecosystem once invested. And Sony established its brand power in the console market during the tail end 7th and through 8th generation; offering high quality titles and support through their respective life. And people just don't usually switch after commiting to an ecosystem. Take smartphones... you don't see people moving from iOS to Android (or vice versa) often. That and Microsoft destroyed most of its good will after the launch of Xbox One and its DRM plan. Currently, Xbox is really just a push for Game Pass, and that's the pull of Xbox consoles rn. If people aren't interested in other subs there's not much reason for people to buy an Xbox.

To add, and to put all of this Jez's nonsense in perspective.. look at the sales of Nintendo consoles. And most current, Switch. Hardware means f all without good software. Sales are at an all time high with that.

 

[mckmas8808]

What in the fuck are you even talking about? Who said that?

Playing Horizon: FW on the PS4 is different from playing it on PS5, just like playing Starfield on Series S will be different from playing it on Series X.

What's your point?

Ugh.......you are trying to take credit away from the PS5 and some of its games because it can also be played on the PS4. Gamers have shown us that they'd rather play the game on the PS5 due to the advantages there. It's that simple.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

No its software. Its always software, but you get silly articles like this to damage control - its Jez Cordon after all.

Software sells hardware but mindshare is also important. Xbox just doesn't have the pull that PlayStation has. Consumers are reluctant to move onto another ecosystem once invested. And Sony established its brand power in the console market during the tail end 7th and through 8th generation; offering high quality titles and support through their respective life. And people just don't usually switch after commiting to an ecosystem. Take smartphones... you don't see people moving from iOS to Android (or vice versa) often. That and Microsoft destroyed most of its good will after the launch of Xbox One and its DRM plan. And with now the push for Game Pass, and that's the pull of Xbox consoles rn. If people aren't interested in other subs there's not much reason for people to buy an Xbox.

To add to put all of this Jez's nonsense in perspective.. look at the sales of Nintendo consoles. And most current, Switch. Hardware means f all without good software.

I dont dislike Jez, he doesn't hide his bias or what his golden goose is, but yes I do find this article puzzling. The issue with the xbox brand continues to be what it has been the entire Phil Spencer era: too few high quality exclusive games that can only be enjoyed on Xbox.

 

[mckmas8808]

I dont dislike Jez, he doesn't hide his bias or what his golden goose is, but yes I do find this article puzzling. The issue with the xbox brand continues to be what it has been the entire Phil Spencer era: too few high quality exclusive games that can only be enjoyed on Xbox.

True, but the Xbox Series S and X idea was terrible too. Plus pushing Xcloud at the beginning of a console launch was super stupid! Why not wait 3-4 years before pushing Xcloud?

 

[DenchDeckard]

They need to drop the price officially to 399 on series x and more on series s or its not just game over...its a massacre.

Sony dropping ps5 to 399 is just mind blowing to me. Poor MS LOL not a chance.

 

[Three]

No its software. Its always software, but you get silly articles like this to damage control - its Jez Cordon after all.

Jez is in a roundabout way trying to say they have resolved games for the future now but they face a hardware crisis. Not entirely wrong but Jez is talking about the future. Right in the here and now they have issues in both I would say.

 

[thismeinteil]

I am increasingly stunned at how similar Microsoft of today is to Sega during the mid '90s in terms of incompetent console brand management.

There's a lot to actually get into on the parallels; I mentioned it years back but in light of new Sega info (thanks, leaks!), I think it deserves a revisit. Some people aren't going to like the parallels but they 1000% exist between the two. History often repeats itself in odd ways.



I don't think they can redesign the Series X APU without also redesigning the Series S APU, since they share the same wafer fabs. This was brought to my attention by someone else, but it sounds very plausible.

I have other reasons why we haven't seen a Series X as you described, partly being the associated costs with Microsoft's APUs, partly due to very low sales volumes which makes economies of scale very difficult for Microsoft to leverage.

Very true. Unfortunately for Sega, they didn't have a daddy MS who could keep them afloat. If they had spun off the Xbox brand, like there were talks of doing after the XBO launch, Xbox would either be dead or 3rd party by now.

 

[The Pleasure]

The most successful hardware Xbox has ever released is the controller.

The dpad sucks the llamas ass though.

 

[analog_future]

Ugh.......you are trying to take credit away from the PS5 and some of its games because it can also be played on the PS4. Gamers have shown us that they'd rather play the game on the PS5 due to the advantages there. It's that simple.

That's not at all what I'm doing.

What I'm doing is responding to your asinine assertion that Microsoft creating games for Series S and PC is "THE PROBLEM" when Sony literally does the exact same thing with some of their biggest and best first party titles.

 

[hinch7]

I dont dislike Jez, he doesn't hide his bias or what his golden goose is, but yes I do find this article puzzling. The issue with the xbox brand continues to be what it has been the entire Phil Spencer era: too few high quality exclusive games that can only be enjoyed on Xbox.

Yeah its odd, more of a fluff piece that doesn't say anything other than to talk about devs gripes with the Series S consoles and its potential issues going forward. And using that as a prop as as argument as to why the Xbox isn't selling so well verses its competitor.

I mean if you reversed the roles and had Sony had the $350 entry level PS5. You can probably guess which one will sell better. Granted Sony is the bigger brand in the console space, Microsoft needed a huge push this gen with a big incentive for people why they need an Xbox. Which is must have games. And games people talk about.. not 1000000 games on a subscription service. Most people don't want to play that many games at one time, just ones that interest them. Which they haven't yet done. Starfield is what September and we still don't know if its going to be a big USP for consoles and thats only one game and new IP with unknowns.

But yeah this isn't one of his better articles lol. Just looks trying like finding answers for reasons that were already in front of him. Hardware is completely irrelevant, going by sales and interest.

 

[Freelance Yakuza]

I would not be surprised if Microsoft is reconsidering Xbox as a hardware platform. Seems so much easier to become the biggest third party publisher in this climate than to try and boost hardware sales.

I had the same opinion but after looking at the revenue it seems that the real money is made by selling 3rd party games on your plataform and getting 30%

1 Sony $24.9 billion
2 Microsoft $16.3 billion
3 Nintendo $15.3 billion
4 Tencent $13.9 billion
5 Activision Blizzard $8.8 billion
6 EA: Electronic Arts $5.6 billion
7 Epic Games $5.1 billion
8 Take-Two Interactive $3.4 billion
9 Ubisoft $2.5 billion
10 Bandai Namco $2.0 billion

 

[Muffdraul]

I bought an XSX a little over a year ago. It wasn't really a question to me, I've bought every major console from the 16-bit era on. But I'm now really questioning my policy for the first time now. I'm glad I have it so I can play Halo MCC in its best possible state (console-wise at least) and I have access to the Criterion channel. I can't think of any other reason. It's even worse than the situation was with the XBone, and that was BAD.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

True, but the Xbox Series S and X idea was terrible too. Plus pushing Xcloud at the beginning of a console launch was super stupid! Why not wait 3-4 years before pushing Xcloud?

I am not a huge fan of it, the X should have been it. But I'd love to know, aside from resolution and framerate (big deals for me) features are having to be excluded from XSX due to XSS limitations.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Pick on Jez all you want but the worst xbox shill will always be Arthur Gies.

 

[jroc74]

Ugh.......you are trying to take credit away from the PS5 and some of its games because it can also be played on the PS4. Gamers have shown us that they'd rather play the game on the PS5 due to the advantages there. It's that simple.

Dont worry, when they realize Burning Shores was PS5 only...maybe they will finally understand.

That's not at all what I'm doing.

What I'm doing is responding to your asinine assertion that Microsoft creating games for Series S and PC is "THE PROBLEM" when Sony literally does the exact same thing with some of their biggest and best first party titles.

So, you want cross gen to last the entire gen?

Help us understand your point.

 

[Bogroll]

To me it seems Xbox has become a PC without the benefits of a PC and to some without hassle (for them) of a PC. Just need some big games more often and if they don't come after Starfield.... Well I don't know, lost for words after all the acquisitions.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

No its software. Its always software, but you get silly articles like this to damage control - its Jez Cordon after all.

Software sells hardware but mindshare is also important. Xbox just doesn't have the pull that PlayStation has. Consumers are reluctant to move onto another ecosystem once invested. And Sony established its brand power in the console market during the tail end 7th and through 8th generation; offering high quality titles and support through their respective life. And people just don't usually switch after commiting to an ecosystem. Take smartphones... you don't see people moving from iOS to Android (or vice versa) often. That and Microsoft destroyed most of its good will after the launch of Xbox One and its DRM plan. Currently, Xbox is really just a push for Game Pass, and that's the pull of Xbox consoles rn. If people aren't interested in other subs there's not much reason for people to buy an Xbox.

To add, and to put all of this Jez's nonsense in perspective.. look at the sales of Nintendo consoles. And most current, Switch. Hardware means f all without good software. Sales are at an all time high with that.

Serious question. What is gained by this article? You're calling Damage control, but I fail to see it as beneficial to MS to crap on their top selling console.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

I had the same opinion but after looking at the revenue it seems that the real money is made by selling 3rd party games on your plataform and getting 30%

1 Sony $24.9 billion
2 Microsoft $16.3 billion
3 Nintendo $15.3 billion
4 Tencent $13.9 billion
5 Activision Blizzard $8.8 billion
6 EA: Electronic Arts $5.6 billion
7 Epic Games $5.1 billion
8 Take-Two Interactive $3.4 billion
9 Ubisoft $2.5 billion
10 Bandai Namco $2.0 billion

If those 3rd party games are CoD and GTAV. Id easily wager that SOny gets a significant chunk of their revenue from 1st party sales. 10-20M copies is pretty good revenue.

 

[Maxwell Jacob Friedman]

Pick on Jez all you want but the worst xbox shill will always be Arthur Gies.

Coldeast wood sucks virtual MS cock for a living. So much he shilled for Redfall and was proven wrong and still shilled for it