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True Detective - Season 2 - We get the Season we deserve - Sundays on HBO

D

Deku Tree

Member
I don't understand how people are calling out all the "hatewatchers". This was one of HBOs premier prestige show.

The first season was praised off the charts.

The second season was totally over hyped. And it ended up being garbage tier for most people. Not even good. Just a boring no feeling who cares about the main actors show. People are going to talk about that.
 
S

SCULLIBUNDO

Banned
I still really hope we get a third season.

HBO even gave The Newsroom a (truncated) third season.

All you guys saying this finale was the worst finale since Dexter obviously didn't watch The Newsroom.
 
K

kirblar

Member
SCULLIBUNDO said:
I still really hope we get a third season.

HBO even gave The Newsroom a (truncated) third season.

All you guys saying this finale was the worst finale since Dexter obviously didn't watch The Newsroom.
Click to expand...
This finale was better than most of the preceding season, if only because it gave context to what Pizzaman was attempting and failing to do.
 
L

lamaroo

Unconfirmed Member
SCULLIBUNDO said:
I still really hope we get a third season.

HBO even gave The Newsroom a (truncated) third season.

All you guys saying this finale was the worst finale since Dexter obviously didn't watch The Newsroom.
Click to expand...

Season one was too good, I'll be there day one for Season three if it happens. I didn't mind the finale as an episode, and the show never came close to the depths of Dexter's terribleness so I don't know why people continue to say that.
 
R

rtcn63

Member
It works better if you imagine the entire season as an intentional prequel to this meme

437px-Clarinet_boy.jpg
 
S

SuperStiltzkin

Member
I have no strong feelings about the finale itself. All the predictions turned out to be true so there weren't any crazy revelations. Everyone who you suspected to be evil and corrupt turned out to be evil and corrupt. The late game orphan plotline led to an underwhelming reveal that was already predicted. None of it made me feel anything. The finale only sucks because the rest of the season sucked. It's an episode written to give some sense of closure to characters you never really gave a shit because you never really got attached to them in those previous 7 episodes. It's written to reveal answers to questions that aren't really all that compelling to begin with. The punchline is weak because the setup is weak.

So I don't know if I would say the finale sucked because, much like the actors, it wasn't really given much to work with. There is no way you redeem a show with one episode. I just end up feeling lukewarm about the finale an disappointed with the season as a whole.
 
S

SCULLIBUNDO

Banned
Freewheelin' said:
Mind explaining why when you get the time? Or link to a post I might have missed.

Curious to see the opinions of those who liked it; only read a lot of critics' pieces and they by and large didn't.
Click to expand...

Because after 7 episodes of plodding, nonsensical pacing with zero character development from episode one (until perhaps the latter half of episode 7), the finale represented the first time I felt the characters actually grew and displayed any kind of emotional arc since the beginning of the series. This also happened to coincide with the payoff of some (definitely not all) subplots in Pizzaman's shaky, jenga-like tower of plot.

In short: The story began to payoff somewhat at the same time I began to care about that characters. So when they were finally in danger and everything was on the line, I actually felt that sense of tension and dread for the first time in the whole season.
 
Kadayi

Kadayi

Banned
Einchy said:
It's been like that this whole thread.

A character could walk into a room, say hello and you'd have a bunch of snarky posts about how awful Pizzaman wrote the scene.

This season was really messy and a lot of criticism was valid but some people just went over the board and started nit picking every single line.

I saw some people complaining about the, "what gave it away? the tits?" line in the last episode. If this was season 1, people would've thought that was funny or wouldn't even have twice about it.
Click to expand...

I know. When people bandy around words like inexcusable or atrocious I do have to wonder what absurd standards they're holding TDS2 to. TDS1 wasn't flawless, and even the Wire has issues (Season 5 was not great imo).

The problem I see with this degree of overblown histrionic criticism is that HBO might be persuaded to drop the series, and focus on less risky fare in future (a lot of criticism I've read seems to revolve around the lack of a 'good guys win' ending, which is a somewhat tragic perspective of how adult dramas have to play out) and personally I think that would be a real shame for everyone. Going forward the management of the writing needs to be addressed for sure, but I'd hate to see creativity get pushed towards convention.
 
P

Partition

Banned
there was no way they could have completely saved this finale the way the story was going honestly. We all knew the robbery kids killed caspere like 2 episodes ago, which was always going to be a lame, undeveloped twist; considering the villain they've been chasing the entire season was hardly ever a threat at all, and merely just served as a purpose to link the corruption of the police, city officials, and Frank's associates together.

There were a lot of nice bits in the finale but I can see why some people just can't get over the bad things that plagued the entire season.
 
B

BkMogul

Member
The amount of hate in this thread is laughable. Shows like this are better than maybe 90% of the dramas out there. It was slow out of the gate, but it partially redeemed itself with the last 2 episodes. All in all, it was still a pretty decent season when you take it as a whole.
 
F

Freedom = $1.05

Banned
BkMogul said:
The amount of hate in this thread is laughable. Shows like this are better than maybe 90% of the dramas out there. It was slow out of the gate, but it partially redeemed itself with the last 2 episodes. All in all, it was still a pretty decent season when you take it as a whole.
Click to expand...
You've been seeing some terrible shows if this is better than 90% of them.

And no one came to true detective for decent. We came expecting something above the fray. If decent is what true detective is now then I'm better off watching a TNT mini series.
 
O

OrlanisWorks

Banned
SCULLIBUNDO said:
Because after 7 episodes of plodding, nonsensical pacing with zero character development from episode one (until perhaps the latter half of episode 7), the finale represented the first time I felt the characters actually grew and displayed any kind of emotional arc since the beginning of the series. This also happened to coincide with the payoff of some (definitely not all) subplots in Pizzaman's shaky, jenga-like tower of plot.

In short: The story began to payoff somewhat at the same time I began to care about that characters. So when they were finally in danger and everything was on the line, I actually felt that sense of tension and dread for the first time in the whole season.
Click to expand...

Weird, I thought the whole season was trying far too much at character development and lost sight of not only good character development, but good narrative development and pacing. Then, the end came along and made me feel like I had watched nothing actually happen and nothing really mattered.

To each, their own! :p
 
J

jetjevons

Bish loves my games!
My thinking is, I've watched and enjoyed a LOT shittier TV than S2 of True Detective. It wasn't as well crafted as S1 and ultimately the 'mystery' was kinda mundane but I gained new respect for CF and RM and there were definitely scenes and lines that 100% landed. I don't regret it.
 
R

Rastafarian42

Member
The finale was decent just like this whole season hopefully pizzman cuts the fat and has a greater deal of focus for next season. This show can recover from this it all depends who they cast for the leads next season and try to hire a director for the whole season.
 
R

rtcn63

Member
You could tell from the first episode who the main characters were (or at least, could make a damn good guess). It's like, you can spend most of the season trying to get the audience to understand Ray, Bezz, and Frank, but they're so unoriginal that you don't need to, so why waste the time? Unless you were going somewhere unexpected, which you didn't. They could've used that time to flesh out everyone and everything else.
 
L

lustrate

Member
smorgasbird said:
You keep saying this, but people have actually been very vocal about the reasons why they disliked the show. You also claim that people were waiting to hate it, which comes off kind of paranoid and defensive.

There are so many reasons to dislike this show:

- The writing is straight up atrocious; there are numerous examples of inexcusable lines from the show.

- The show is trying to pass off cartoon characters as serious. Bezzeridies' knife thing is a hilariously bad concept, and David Morse as her hippie dad is just laughable. Vince Vaughn's monologues about ceiling stains are insufferable and take up way, way too much screen time. Ray was absolutely hilarious in the first few episodes, beating up a kid's dad in front of him and then going to school to pick up his son with cocaine on his sleeve. Woodrough is sooo in the closet that we need to spend several episodes seeing it. Woodrough reminds me of that Onion article: "why do all these homosexuals keep sucking my cock?"

- Ray died in a straight-to-DVD quality action scene. He detected the transponder on his car, but then he just decided to go to a forest (wtf?) and die in a shootout.

- Arguably the only captivating mystery was Birdman, but the show ignored him for 95% of its runtime, and then he turned out to be a cartoon ("I am the blade"). I think Stan-related things got more screen time than Birdman overall.

- The plot mysteries (if you can even call them that, they are so mundane) are addressed via convenient "by the way..." revelations.

- The plot in general is ridiculously convoluted, and it all comes down to some robbery in 1992 which is hardly elaborated on, and Ray figures it out only because it's the last episode.

- There are some totally implausible arcs, like Woodrough's past military company is now working for Catalyst, and they end up facing off. And then Burris is waiting behind the door of the one exit that Woodrough decides to take, kills him, and runs off in a getaway car.

- There's quite a bit of parody-like stuff that is hard to take seriously, like the edgy musician playing in an empty bar (wtf?), Ray's son having his badge with him at school, and the shot of the phone after Ray dies; Frank putting diamonds in his wound because 2deep4u symbolism.

- Ani apparently had a baby with Ray, because the show is apparently a soap opera.


Which of the following is more plausible to you?

- People who liked season 1 hoped for season 2 to be good, but were disappointed.

- People who liked season 1 wanted to hate season 2 on purpose, in order to glorify season 1. Hint: nobody thinks this way.
Click to expand...

This is spot on. I completely agree with every point you listed. Thanks for taking the time to write that out!
 
D

dead souls

Member
BkMogul said:
The amount of hate in this thread is laughable. Shows like this are better than maybe 90% of the dramas out there. It was slow out of the gate, but it partially redeemed itself with the last 2 episodes. All in all, it was still a pretty decent season when you take it as a whole.
Click to expand...

Given how much good stuff has aired on television in 2015 I can't even understand comments like this. Even limiting myself to just what has aired episodes during the eight weeks that TD was airing there is Penny Dreadful, Masters of Sex, Hannibal, Halt and Catch Fire, Rectify, Deutschland 83 and Mr. Robot. Any one of those shows stomps this season of True Detective into the ground without even breaking a sweat.
 
A

Anton Sugar

Member
Y'all. That was a thoroughly mediocre episode of television. I think episode 7 will mark the high point of the season.

For better or worse.

smorgasbird said:
You keep saying this, but people have actually been very vocal about the reasons why they disliked the show. You also claim that people were waiting to hate it, which comes off kind of paranoid and defensive.

There are so many reasons to dislike this show:

- The writing is straight up atrocious; there are numerous examples of inexcusable lines from the show.

- The show is trying to pass off cartoon characters as serious. Bezzeridies' knife thing is a hilariously bad concept, and David Morse as her hippie dad is just laughable. Vince Vaughn's monologues about ceiling stains are insufferable and take up way, way too much screen time. Ray was absolutely hilarious in the first few episodes, beating up a kid's dad in front of him and then going to school to pick up his son with cocaine on his sleeve. Woodrough is sooo in the closet that we need to spend several episodes seeing it. Woodrough reminds me of that Onion article: "why do all these homosexuals keep sucking my cock?"

- Ray died in a straight-to-DVD quality action scene. He detected the transponder on his car, but then he just decided to go to a forest (wtf?) and die in a shootout.

- Arguably the only captivating mystery was Birdman, but the show ignored him for 95% of its runtime, and then he turned out to be a cartoon ("I am the blade"). I think Stan-related things got more screen time than Birdman overall.

- The plot mysteries (if you can even call them that, they are so mundane) are addressed via convenient "by the way..." revelations.

- The plot in general is ridiculously convoluted, and it all comes down to some robbery in 1992 which is hardly elaborated on, and Ray figures it out only because it's the last episode.

- There are some totally implausible arcs, like Woodrough's past military company is now working for Catalyst, and they end up facing off. And then Burris is waiting behind the door of the one exit that Woodrough decides to take, kills him, and runs off in a getaway car.

- There's quite a bit of parody-like stuff that is hard to take seriously, like the edgy musician playing in an empty bar (wtf?), Ray's son having his badge with him at school, and the shot of the phone after Ray dies; Frank putting diamonds in his wound because 2deep4u symbolism.

- Ani apparently had a baby with Ray, because the show is apparently a soap opera.


Which of the following is more plausible to you?

- People who liked season 1 hoped for season 2 to be good, but were disappointed.

- People who liked season 1 wanted to hate season 2 on purpose, in order to glorify season 1. Hint: nobody thinks this way.
Click to expand...

All of this. So much.

Hey, remember those black guys? That gang of black guys that picked on the white dude we're supposed to like?

FUCK
 
S

Sober

Member
dead souls said:
Given how much good stuff has aired on television in 2015 I can't even understand comments like this. Even limiting myself to just what has aired episodes during the eight weeks that TD was airing there is Penny Dreadful, Masters of Sex, Hannibal, Halt and Catch Fire, Rectify, Deutschland 83 and Mr. Robot. Any one of those shows stomps this season of True Detective into the ground without even breaking a sweat.
Click to expand...

b-b-but if I watch shows that aren't in the zeitgeist how will people know I'm truly cultured!?
 
B

Burt

Member
I don't know if anyone else noticed, but I'm pretty sure Catalyst was actually spelled Catalast on one of their signs somewhere

I don't know why but that seriously made me more mad than anything else this season
 
A

Anton Sugar

Member
SCULLIBUNDO said:
What's worse is that I know a lot of the people taking their dislike of the show to these juvenile extremes love Hannibal.
Click to expand...

It's rather easy to understand why TD Season 2 is a shitshow compared even to the inconsistent Season 3 of Hannibal.

But no, go ahead and prop up the show that has a kid SALUTE his estranged father while displaying his grandpas badge (for which he has never shown ANY affinity) on his lunch table.

Why? Plot.
True Detective Season 2 in a nutshell.
 
MisterFalcon

MisterFalcon

Member
I hope to see an AOBG killcount on this because it's ridiculous how many people got wasted while solving the mystery of who killed a corrupt city official.
 
F

Farmboy

Member
SCULLIBUNDO said:
Because after 7 episodes of plodding, nonsensical pacing with zero character development from episode one (until perhaps the latter half of episode 7), the finale represented the first time I felt the characters actually grew and displayed any kind of emotional arc since the beginning of the series. This also happened to coincide with the payoff of some (definitely not all) subplots in Pizzaman's shaky, jenga-like tower of plot.

In short: The story began to payoff somewhat at the same time I began to care about that characters. So when they were finally in danger and everything was on the line, I actually felt that sense of tension and dread for the first time in the whole season.
Click to expand...

I partially agree with this. The seventh episode actually showed promise, implying that we might get a satisfying payoff. The finale does deliver on that promise to an extent. And I agree that the tension/dread proved, for me personally, that I'd grown attached to these characters more than I expected.

But the finale is also the most ridiculous episode by far. Faux pulp/noir-ish elements that could charitably be excused as hommage or pastiche in earlier episodes veered into parody. The desert walk, Velcoro's last stand, the fact that every character no matter how minor have a backstory explaining their loyalties (Nails and that girl running the bar spring to mind), the kid bringing that badge to school, the baby... It's all completely over the top.

Still, I enjoyed it for what it was. And as you say, it was at least something; many earlier episodes weren't anything. But it's hard to believe both seasons sprang from the same mind.
 
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