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The case for PS3 back compat

StateofMajora

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Kuranghi Kuranghi Or the time I bought an 950g as a replacement for the x900e, I was playing earth defense force 4 at the time and when going from x900e to 950g, again that difference was very noticeable. I completely obsess over this stuff lol. Had to return the 950g for DSE though. Then I began to appreciate my 900e even more! When testing this stuff i'm kinda like "ok let's see if I can honestly tell the difference" and not "ok let's see how big this difference is", for what it's worth.

I'm not sure anything I could do to try and fool myself with another person would work. Because if I have them choose bfi on or off and I leave the room, if it's the same game, I can just look for the motion smoothness as well as lag if I really wanted to know in a blind test lol.

I mean, some people claim to not be bothered by 60hz bfi even, which to me is unbelievable, as it's like being blasted by eye straining hypnosis, but I guess peoples eyes are different.
 
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EDMIX

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IF Sony wasn't going out of their way killing you access to digital games that is.

To my understanding, you'll have the download list and can continue to re-download those titles you own. They made a statement about it I believe.
Have you tried downloading anything from the downloadlist in PS3 and Vita?

I have, not recently though. That change happens in July and its only with the store, not the download list.

it was perfectly possible to have old and new games listed in the web store while the ability to purchase some was taken down as licenses expired, in fact, this was the situation even after the store was changed using the links that don't work anymore.

I agree with this. I understand them getting rid of PSN Natively off of those systems, but they should have left the online store on PC intact for older users. I don't see me buying anything from it after July as I'm going to do a once over later to just buy up titles I might want, but I can see how others may not know about this in time to get some gems.

most of this is covered on the stupid terms of services that basically say whatever without the expectation to be actually legal and binding

True, but that is why I'm more so for disk based games and rarely buy digital. You are basically renting a game and have little rights if any.





semi OT (kinda lol) should make a thread about the gems that should be purchased off of PSN for Vita, PS3 and PSP before the store goes lol
 
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DrAspirino

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For fuck sakes, you can't even NAME 1 company that has BC of 100% of their titles or something or gives them for free completely. Nothing in the industry like that exist to demand it from any company. We have zero example of anything like that, even in other industries. Most of today's Bluray players do not play DVD (unless you clearly have a combo one), let alone VHS. When they make remasters in HD, 4KUHD etc, its not like you get it for free or anything like that, again...nothing like this exist in any industry to my understanding to be making it seem as if it should be this normal thing, yet have zero example of it happening before with others to such a wild degree.
PCs have full 100% BC with every single software (including games) from their invention in the 80s to today. You can even play games for DOS 1.0 using a virtual machine.

Also, if you work in the IT sector, you should know that some companies demand (and even pay large sums) Microsoft and other software makers to keep backwards compatibility with their older software. It's not unheard of, and I would even dare to say it's standard practice. Otherwise, Windows wouldn't have the dominance it has in desktops and offices.

And nope, blu-ray players DO play DVDs, and some even VCDs and SVCDs (which are a lot older than DVDs). DVD-Audio players play audio CDs. SACD players also play audio CDs.
 
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Nyxir

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it would still be pretty bad I bet.

here's a video of someone testing it on a CRT! so basically lag free display. and if you can tell by the naked eye, it is bad lol


it is 150ms btw. as a comparison, Halo 3, which also ran at 30fps, had 90ms, the average 30fps game has 100ms to 110ms lag. Killzone 3 was at around 115ms if I remember correctly

yet of course people back then denied that Killzone 2 had any input lag issues, there were so many videos on youtube saying "input lag myth busted" and shit like that, it was hilarious. as if people just randomly claimed that out of nowhere, especially back then when Input lag issues weren't really talked about much.

and given that PSNow will add AT LEAST 50 to 60ms of lag if you're lucky and close to the server farm, even a 100ms lag game like many 30fps games have will end up being above 150ms, which is the issue with streaming PS3 games. most of them are 30fps, some already had inherent input lag above the optimal lag for their framerate target, so adding 50ms in the best case scenario is not great
I remember when fanboys called that realism 😂
 
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Oct 26, 2018
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Kuranghi Kuranghi Or the time I bought an 950g as a replacement for the x900e, I was playing earth defense force 4 at the time and when going from x900e to 950g, again that difference was very noticeable. I completely obsess over this stuff lol. Had to return the 950g for DSE though. Then I began to appreciate my 900e even more! When testing this stuff i'm kinda like "ok let's see if I can honestly tell the difference" and not "ok let's see how big this difference is", for what it's worth.

I'm not sure anything I could do to try and fool myself with another person would work. Because if I have them choose bfi on or off and I leave the room, if it's the same game, I can just look for the motion smoothness as well as lag if I really wanted to know in a blind test lol.

I mean, some people claim to not be bothered by 60hz bfi even, which to me is unbelievable, as it's like being blasted by eye straining hypnosis, but I guess peoples eyes are different.
I have a 900e.

Did you ever have the arc audio issue? I had it and never got it solved. Sony claims a recent update fixed it but it didnt. I had to resort to an optical cable for sound to come out of my home theatre set up about a year after I got the tv. That Oreo 8 update in late 2018 killed many people's audio systems.

If you did and got it solved, what did you to fix it? Anything special?
 
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StateofMajora

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I have a 900e.

Did you ever have the arc audio issue? I had it and never got it solved. Sony claims a recent update fixed it but it didnt. I had to resort to an optical cable for sound to come out of my home theatre set up about a year after I got the tv. That Oreo 8 update in late 2018 killed many people's audio systems.

If you did and got it solved, what did you to fix it? Anything special?
Do you mean lip sync issues? I never used arc on it, only on A8h. However, I did have lip sync issues on A8h with arc. Currently I have a sound bar hooked up to it via audio optical.

Huh, seems like an issue that’s been plaguing Sony for a while if you meant lip sync.
 
Oct 26, 2018
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Do you mean lip sync issues? I never used arc on it, only on A8h. However, I did have lip sync issues on A8h with arc. Currently I have a sound bar hooked up to it via audio optical.

Huh, seems like an issue that’s been plaguing Sony for a while if you meant lip sync.
No, it was sound wouldn't work at all. The first half year or so home theatre HDMI arc worked. Then an OS update. Then many of us could only get sound through an optical cable.

They claimed it fixed with an OS update in 2000, but it didnt fix for me.

As for lip sync, I get that too but only for certain TV channels and if live like sports on a 4k channel. I use 4k HDMI cables so it's not that. Other standard HD channels, tv commercials, and gaming are fine. There's something weird with my set up or the Rogers 4k sports channels themselves as lip syncing is off only for those 4k channels. And it's not an issue all the time either. One hockey telecast could be fine. Then the next day it's off by a split second. Weird.

 
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EDMIX

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PCs have full 100% BC

The comment states a company. In order to even have full 100% BC on PC, you need multiple work arounds, the point thats being made stands, no COMPANY has done this.

Zero.

Also, if you work in the IT sector, you should know that some companies demand (and even pay large sums) Microsoft and other software makers to keep backwards compatibility with their older software.

I worked in IT for 7 years, its irrelevant. So..."some" not ALL PUBLISHERS. MOST publishers seek to just remaster, re-print, port, remake, make collections etc.


? lol My comment on Bluray literally states "(unless you clearly have a combo one)"

Sooooo yea. No fucking players are STANDARD as some Betamax, VHS, HDDVD, DVD, Bluray etc. MOST are not that.

That was the point so, yup.

So notice the ...
some even
yea, "some", that isn't a fucking standard thing..... as to why I stated, "unless" as clearly "some" do exist that do that, but its not a industry standard, so regardless we don't have many industries with some standard of 100% BC by default or something.

You need a lot of work arounds or certain versions like combo players, but thats no different then saying "some even PLAY PS2 games" for the PS3's early versions....
 

StateofMajora

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No, it was sound wouldn't work at all. The first half year or so home theatre HDMI arc worked. Then an OS update. Then many of us could only get sound through an optical cable.

They claimed it fixed with an OS update in 2000, but it didnt fix for me.

As for lip sync, I get that too but only for certain TV channels and if live like sports on a 4k channel. I use 4k HDMI cables so it's not that. Other standard HD channels, tv commercials, and gaming are fine. There's something weird with my set up or the Rogers 4k sports channels themselves as lip syncing is off only for those 4k channels. And it's not an issue all the time either. One hockey telecast could be fine. Then the next day it's off by a split second. Weird.

Ah, thanks for the info. Also, you've reaffirmed my decision to not update my tvs unless it fixes an issue or improves something. To this day, my x900e and a8h have never connected online lol. But that is shitty.

And yeah dude, i had a similar experience with a8h. Sometimes arc worked fine, then not. I thought eARC was supposed to fix lip sync.
 
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Ah, thanks for the info. Also, you've reaffirmed my decision to not update my tvs unless it fixes an issue or improves something. To this day, my x900e and a8h have never connected online lol. But that is shitty.

And yeah dude, i had a similar experience with a8h. Sometimes arc worked fine, then not. I thought eARC was supposed to fix lip sync.
Even dumber was that some people said they even reset the OS, but the issue still didn't fx. That doesn't make sense, unless resetting the firmware to factory settings doesn't truly reset everything and some things are still kept updated. I don't know.
 
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01011001

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For fuck sakes, you can't even NAME 1 company that has BC of 100% of their titles or something or gives them for free completely. Nothing in the industry like that exist to demand it from any company. We have zero example of anything like that, even in other industries. Most of today's Bluray players do not play DVD (unless you clearly have a combo one), let alone VHS. When they make remasters in HD, 4KUHD etc, its not like you get it for free or anything like that, again...nothing like this exist in any industry to my understanding to be making it seem as if it should be this normal thing, yet have zero example of it happening before with others to such a wild degree.

Microsoft keeps Windows compatible to old software to the point of still keeping you from using certain file names in Windows 10 because it could interfere with old code written for MS-DOS

they literally refrain from fixing certain bugs in Windows because old software would break if they did.

and do you know why the Windows install drive always defaults to C? because drives A and B are reserved for floppy disk drives. and that is true to this day. Windows is installed on C (you can change that if you really want tho) and if you connect 1 floppy drive it will be drive A, and if you add a second one it will be drive B.
this too is made to preserve compatibility because some old software from the 80s or early 90s might search for files on Drive A or B or write to them, and would crash if the letters were assigned differently, because these were always the 2 letters assigned to floppy drives.

before home computers had actual hard drives, your OS would come on a floppy disk, you insert the floppy and load the software, after that you could switch them out to either write something into a floppy or load a different piece of software.
some computers had 2 floppy drives so you could use 2 simultaneously which of course was way more convenient (less floppy switching)

only later did actual hard drives become common, and Microsoft added the C drive designation which was reserved for hard drives.

also, EVERY SINGLE bluray player plays DVDs, I have never seen one that doesn't. if you know one please link it, I have never heard of such a player. and this includes UHD players.

and Sony did support all their software up until the first PS3 model, and even the first revision witg partial sifteare emulation played like 95%-99% of all games.
 
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EDMIX

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Microsoft keeps Windows compatible to old software to the point of still keeping you from using certain file names in Windows 10 because it could interfere with old code written for MS-DOS

they literally refrain from fixing certain bugs in Windows because old software would break if they did.

and do you know why the Windows install drive always defaults to C? because drives A and B are reserved for floppy disk drives. and that is true to this day. Windows is installed on C (you can change that if you really want tho) and if you connect 1 floppy drive it will be drive A, and if you add a second one it will be drive B.
this too is made to preserve compatibility because some old software from the 80s or early 90s might search for files on Drive A or B or write to them, and would crash if the letters were assigned differently, because these were always the 2 letters assigned to floppy drives.

before home computers had actual hard drives, your OS would come on a floppy disk, you insert the floppy and load the software, after that you could switch them out to either write something into a floppy or load a different piece of software.
some computers had 2 floppy drives so you could use 2 simultaneously which of course was way more convenient (less floppy switching)

only later did actual hard drives become common, and Microsoft added the C drive designation which was reserved for hard drives.

also, EVERY SINGLE bluray player plays DVDs, I have never seen one that doesn't. if you know one please link it, I have never heard of such a player. and this includes UHD players.

and Sony did support all their software up until the first PS3 model, and even the first revision witg partial sifteare emulation played like 95%-99% of all games.

Windows is still not 100% BC will all applications though, you need workarounds to get them to work or be supported (if they even can be with a work around), so the fact that you can um "change that if you really want doe" is because its not a default BC type of thing where all application, hardware etc work on all windows by default. That has never been the cause. I literally worked in IT for 7 years and I've never seen something where all hardware worked on all windows no issues etc. Shit even Win 7 compatibility mode worked with XP applications to a certain extent, it wasn't 100%

"EVERY SINGLE bluray player plays DVDs" Nah, false. Not all Bluray players are universal.


witg partial sifteare

huh?
 
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01011001

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Windows is still not 100% BC will all applications though, you need workarounds to get them to work or be supported (if they even can be with a work around), so the fact that you can um "change that if you really want doe" is because its not a default BC type of thing where all application, hardware etc work on all windows by default. That has never been the cause. I literally worked in IT for 7 years and I've never seen something where all hardware worked on all windows no issues etc. Shit even Win 7 compatibility mode worked with XP applications to a certain extent, it wasn't 100%

"EVERY SINGLE bluray player plays DVDs" Nah, false. Not all Bluray players are universal.




huh?

link a bluray player that is known to not play DVDs then... if they exist you must have heard of them and there must be evidence of them online.

that last sentence is supposed to say "with partial software emulation" I hate typing long texts on a phone, precisely because that shit happens lol

and of course Windows isn't perfectly compatible with everything, but almost anything works after tinkering with it and Microsoft actively tries its best to not change things that could break old code.
 
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RAIDEN1

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Also to add there is a live stream taking place currently by the DF Retro guys:

 
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Romulus

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My least favorite mainline console since I started gaming, but it has a couple of gems.