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The case for PS3 back compat

Roman Empire

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The best thing you can do is PS3 homebrew or RPCS3 on PC. Unfortunately, this is the best way trying to preserve your PS game library moving forward until they decide to give us a proper backward compat solution. I know there is PS Now, but it isn't available in most countries and the experience can vary depending on the connection.
 
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RAIDEN1

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Fact is Sony don't give a dam, they never gave a dam even from the PS3 days as backward compatiabilty only came for a short stint, and didn't continue post 2008/2009....on PS4 they had an opportunity didn't take it....on PS5 they had an opportunity, didn't take it...to this DAY games like TopSpin 4, Burnout Revenge, Panzer Dragoon Orta, Republic Commando, MGS-HD Collection, Rockstars Table Tennis Game, Jade Empire have not been bettered if you are even vaguely interested in Ridge Racer you will need a PS3....

Also fun fact of the day MGS4 remains a Playstation exclusive all this time!
 

Pachi72

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Best beti is to download RPCS3 EMU & and Download the Ps3 ISO. Play it on PC.
 

DrAspirino

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And before you all say it, yes I know PS3 is super hard to code for and therefor hard to emulate. That's just an excuse. If Sony really wanted to they could find a way.
Heck, Sony got around 60% of the job already done for them (and open-source ffs), and the PS5 hardware is more than capable of emulating PS3 games, so all comes down to Jim Ryan's own bullshit of "no one wants backwards compatibility" discourse. If Sony wanted, they could release their own emulator next month on PS5 with no optimization whatsoever, and have full BC from PS1 all the way to PS4.

Do you see now that it isn't a technical problem, but rather a shitty Sony policies problem?
 

DrAspirino

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PS3 emulation is just not realistic unfortunately. The SPE setup basically makes it impossible to get accurate emulation on even top end PC hardware...and that means that per-game hacks would have to be used and compatibility would be relatively poor. For something like RPCS3 it doesn't really matter if the emulation isn't perfect yet because it's not part of a commercial product, but Sony would basically need to limit it to tried and tested "PS3 Classics" releases.
 
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The Tech is there it just that they Sony has no desire to do it since it won't be a money cow for them.
Nah, if they just made an emulator (like they probably already did) and let it run the discs and allow publishers to make their old PSN store games available for play on PS5 (download + purchase).

  • Relatively few people have their old discs
  • The sales of digital would probably be worth the effort
  • MS has barely any legacy in gaming and they bother to do something about their past
Unfortunately Sony doesn't seem to care much about their legacy prior to the PS4, which is a shame because the story of the PlayStation's success is in its variety of games.

You probably have more access Neo-Geo/Genesis games PS4/5 than you have PS1/2/3 games on the new platform--Don't get me started on streaming, that does not count in any reasonable way as "backwards compatibility" otherwise we would not have to "complain" about it all the time.

On the other hand, here is why Sony is not necessarily that bad compared to MS (on Microsoft's own terms):
  • Number of PS2 games available on PS4/5: 55
  • OG xbox games on one/series machines: 40
  • Both cover a very small % of their respective platform, and I would not celebrate either
Many PS1 games have some kind of ports, which is what MS essentially does for their support of og and 360 games. The PS1 ports are often available on the xbox platform as well (which is fine).

The embarrassing point is how Sony is burying its PS3 games, MS's solution is far from perfect, but they cover about 25% of the 360s library, allows easy purchase for people who don't have the games and let those who already had them access the ports library (assuming they have internet the first time they run the game). At the very least Sony should create an emulation layer for PS3 games on the PS5 and allow for easy digital distribution, it would be nicer if they allowed people who already have digital or discs to use them directly.

None has a fair claim at being "backwards compatible" with games from generations that came before 2013--MS does it significantly better for the 360 than Sony does it for the PS3, and for the PS2 and OG xbox, they offer less games, but the overall improvements are better, still neither does an amazing job.

We should expect better from platform owners.
 

The_Mike

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Well.... If you've got a PS digital library of about 300 games, investing in Xbox won't do ya any good.

Both yes and no.

No because of your current library, yes if you want to be able to play current games in the later generations.

I know ps5 has ps4 emulation, but ps3 1st gen could also do bc, until it was axed later on.
 
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RAIDEN1

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Both yes and no.

No because of your current library, yes if you want to be able to play current games in the later generations.

I know ps5 has ps4 emulation, but ps3 1st gen could also do bc, until it was axed later on.
Yeah and since then Sony haven't looked back
 
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evanft

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Let's go over a few things right quick:

  • The PS3 still exists and games are widely available on the second-hand market for prices that are well-below what they typically went for digitally. While there are a few digital exclusives, these were not the norm and many are available on other systems. The number of ones worth playing is tiny.
  • Hot take: The Xbox One was made backwards compatible because Microsoft had absolute shit in terms of exclusives last gen. I mean, last year Sony released Demon's Souls, Spider Man: Miles Morales, Sackboy, Ghost of Tsushima, and Last of Us Part II. That line up is better than all of Microsoft's exclusives released COMBINED since 2010.
  • I shouldn't have to say this since it's been repeated over and over, but the PS3's architecture was an absolute nightmare clusterfuck fueled buy Ken Kutaragi's ego. There was a very good reason why so many multiplats ran worse on the PS3 despite it having more power "on paper" than the Xbox 360. Emulating the cell's CPU design in a modern x86-based chip is an absolutely monumental task, even for a company with Sony's resources. Yes, I'm well aware that there is already a PS3 emulator available for PC, but I'm also aware of how bad the compatibility and performance is on even high-end systems. Sure, Sony could likely do better since they can freely utilize their IP, but I doubt they could come anywhere close to what Microsoft has achieved on the Xbox. And frankly, if they can't get it there, then I don't think people are going to be too happy.

If PS3 back compat ever DID come to the PS5, I could see it under a few different scenarios.
  • An additional box containing essentially PS3 hardware is released that can be attached to the PS5 to help run PS3 games. This would be similar to the PSVR box. Don't see much chance of this happening.
  • Curated, one-by-one emulation, similar to the Xbox, though obviously on a much smaller scale. I imagine we'd see Sony's big titles and little else.
  • Ownership of PS3 games, either on disc or digitally, would give you the ability to play the game through PSNow. The game would essentially act as a license key to unlock streaming to your device. This is the most likely scenario.
I also need to clarify something here. Sony is not your friend. You owe them nothing. They owe you nothing. There was never any guarantee when you bought a PS3 game that it would work on any future systems.
 
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Memorabilia

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Invest in Xbox. If BC is your defining factor move your ecosystem to that.

Yup. I'm on all platforms but realized only a couple years into last gen Xbox would be a better long term investment for me so have purchased all multiplat games there and Sony exclusives on PS4/5.

Sony will likely never invest in BC tho I wish they would. PS Now is a train wreck and not the solution for me.
 

Wizz-Art

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Thats not true at all, psnow works pretty fine to me,Stadia and Geforce nown too, xcloud its the worst in my experience

You're such a blatant hater... Let me ask you this. If Xcloud was the worst of them all why did Sony come running to Microsoft for help with their streaming services? They explicitly started renting Azure servers for PS Now because Azure is the leader in streaming tech, and where does Xcloud run on? That's right, Azure! So no wonder it works pretty fine now.
 

Clear

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Quite frankly its crazy that sony cant do what microsoft has

Why?

You do get the emulation complexity drives workload, right? Emulating the same game presents different challenges depending on the code-path and the hardware. There was literally no way to emulate CELL with any degree of accuracy on Jaguar cores, which is why they went the streaming route. MS' system is clever but the reality is that its emulating a less complicated piece of silicon, with a much cleaner split between gpu and cpu function.

And as I pointed out elsewhere, over the entire multi-year rollout of BC on Xbox One, they still cover less than 25% of 360's library and only around 3% of OG Xbox.

Let's go over a few things right quick:
  • Hot take: The Xbox One was made backwards compatible because Microsoft had absolute shit in terms of exclusives last gen. I mean, last year Sony released Demon's Souls, Spider Man: Miles Morales, Sackboy, Ghost of Tsushima, and Last of Us Part II. That line up is better than all of Microsoft's exclusives released COMBINED since 2010.

Its not a hot take, its a solid fact that they needed product to prop up GamePass and Games With Gold which is why they've marketed it so heavily. Hell the situation is even persisting into the Series launch because they are still relatively thin on content.
 

RAIDEN1

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As I didn't check out Resistance on the PS3 back when it came out, from what I have seen a short-while ago, only Part 1 and 3 are worth it
 

Umbasaborne

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Let's go over a few things right quick:

  • The PS3 still exists and games are widely available on the second-hand market for prices that are well-below what they typically went for digitally. While there are a few digital exclusives, these were not the norm and many are available on other systems. The number of ones worth playing is tiny.
  • Hot take: The Xbox One was made backwards compatible because Microsoft had absolute shit in terms of exclusives last gen. I mean, last year Sony released Demon's Souls, Spider Man: Miles Morales, Sackboy, Ghost of Tsushima, and Last of Us Part II. That line up is better than all of Microsoft's exclusives released COMBINED since 2010.
  • I shouldn't have to say this since it's been repeated over and over, but the PS3's architecture was an absolute nightmare clusterfuck fueled buy Ken Kutaragi's ego. There was a very good reason why so many multiplats ran worse on the PS3 despite it having more power "on paper" than the Xbox 360. Emulating the cell's CPU design in a modern x86-based chip is an absolutely monumental task, even for a company with Sony's resources. Yes, I'm well aware that there is already a PS3 emulator available for PC, but I'm also aware of how bad the compatibility and performance is on even high-end systems. Sure, Sony could likely do better since they can freely utilize their IP, but I doubt they could come anywhere close to what Microsoft has achieved on the Xbox. And frankly, if they can't get it there, then I don't think people are going to be too happy.

If PS3 back compat ever DID come to the PS5, I could see it under a few different scenarios.
  • An additional box containing essentially PS3 hardware is released that can be attached to the PS5 to help run PS3 games. This would be similar to the PSVR box. Don't see much chance of this happening.
  • Curated, one-by-one emulation, similar to the Xbox, though obviously on a much smaller scale. I imagine we'd see Sony's big titles and little else.
  • Ownership of PS3 games, either on disc or digitally, would give you the ability to play the game through PSNow. The game would essentially act as a license key to unlock streaming to your device. This is the most likely scenario.
I also need to clarify something here. Sony is not your friend. You owe them nothing. They owe you nothing. There was never any guarantee when you bought a PS3 game that it would work on any future systems.

i agree with you microsoft used gamepass and bc to cover their ass as an excuse for their piss poor lack of exclusives for their next gen consoles.

but it doesn’t change the fact that it is unquestionably something they have handled better than sony, and its not unreasonable to think that sony should do better. As you say, sony isn’t your friend, no need to stick up for them.
 

Agent X

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And before you all say it, yes I know PS3 is super hard to code for and therefor hard to emulate. That's just an excuse. If Sony really wanted to they could find a way. They created the beast they should have some ideas on how to mimic it. And yes, I too want "NEW" games as well. We can have both. If Xbox can do it Sony certainly could as well. Like who doesn't like Dead Space and Portal 2? Sure, they are old but they are still great games. Locking away Metal Gear 4 to a platform that will soon not even have a store front makes me sad!

It's been mentioned before, but what Microsoft calls "backward compatibility" for Xbox/Xbox 360 games on Xbox One isn't true backward compatibility. The Xbox One does not actually emulate the older systems and run the original code straight up. Instead, the games from the older systems are recompiled to run as "native" Xbox One games. That is one reason why the system doesn't run games directly off of the discs, and requires you to download them from Microsoft's servers.

If Sony really wanted to, they could have used a similar technique to make "backward compatible" PS3 games work on PS4. In fact, they already have a cross-buy program in place. Cross-buy games for PS4 have been available ever since the system was initially launched. Many downloadable games were ported from PS3/PS Vita to PS4, and PS4 owners who previously bought them on PS3/PS Vita could obtain the PS4 versions at no cost.

The difference was that Microsoft also extended their version of the cross-buy program to physical games, and enabled the discs to be used as a "key" to download a downloadable copy of the recompiled game (which would require the disc to be inserted as verification). If Sony had put in the effort (and it's not too late to begin now), they could have accomplished exactly the same thing.
 

Hypereides

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I for one hope that what Microsoft is doing in regards to backwards compability will light Ryan's ass on fire and make him do something about it.

I'm willing to look past the unappealing design look of the PS5 as long as I can access my libraries from prior generations with no hassle.

As I didn't check out Resistance on the PS3 back when it came out, from what I have seen a short-while ago, only Part 1 and 3 are worth it

Part 2 is alright, but Insomniac made a misstep trying to imitate CoD instead building upon what they had in the original.
 
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Topher

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I for one hope that what Microsoft is doing in regards to backwards compability will light Ryan's ass on fire and make him do something about it.

Doubtful. Ryan has been clear he doesn't see the value in old games on new consoles. And let's be honest, Xbox 360 backward compatibility has been around for years and really hasn't made much difference for Xbox sales. I think that is the only metric Jim Ryan recognizes. Backward compatibility for the sake of game preservation? Nah...

 

RAIDEN1

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I for one hope that what Microsoft is doing in regards to backwards compability will light Ryan's ass on fire and make him do something about it.

I'm willing to look past the unappealing design look of the PS5 as long as I can access my libraries from prior generations with no hassle.



Part 2 is alright, but Insomniac made a misstep trying to imitate CoD instead building upon what they had in the original.
Yeah so skipping it out you won't miss much as you can always catch up via YouTube :messenger_grinning_smiling:
 

stitch1

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Doubtful. Ryan has been clear he doesn't see the value in old games on new consoles. And let's be honest, Xbox 360 backward compatibility has been around for years and really hasn't made much difference for Xbox sales. I think that is the only metric Jim Ryan recognizes. Backward compatibility for the sake of game preservation? Nah...
I think you are wrong here. I know my sample size is small but I know a lot of people that didn't buy an Xbox One last gen that were excited to get the Series X for that reason alone. People that had a 360 and still had a collection of older games. Plus the idea of Game Pass didn't hurt either. I have noticed a lot more of my Xbox Friends list that had no activity in YEARS are now showing up as active again.
 
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Shodan09

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Some of the PS3 games would look incredible if they were able to take the same approach as Microsoft and enhance resolution etc. I've tried psnow streaming and it doesn't hold a candle to playing the games natively, although it's definitely not comically unplayable as some would have you believe.
 
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Some of the PS3 games would look incredible if they were able to take the same approach as Microsoft and enhance resolution etc.
That's the dream, the reality is they won't do it unless they can somehow make you pay for it ala Gamepass, i wouldn't mind if they somehow found a way for me to play my PS3 games as is without modifications but i highly doubt they'll do such a thing if there's no money to be made.
 

CamHostage

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Steam and GOG offer oldies for cheap. They don't seem to give a shit and if gamers want to play a 10 year old game for $5 and that gamer spends all day milking that game, then let them. They'll buy other stuff at some point to keep the money coming in. And these PC services don't even have PS+ or Xbox Gold fees to contribute to the pot. Whether it's a PC hoarder buying 100 games or a dude buying an ancient game on a 75% off deal, they are fine with both kinds of customers.

I think there's a difference though when there's not a console licenser involved though? (Although Sony being that licenser, you'd think there'd be more incentive in it for them... but sales have got to be big enough to bother with.) PC games have no contracts or QA as far as the hardware goes, so there's nothing to maintain or re-negotiate. (There's still a lot of legal for the talent and middleware and all that, of course, but that's all on the publisher to maintain.) If it's an officially licensed console product, there's plenty of legal rigmarole that was there initially to ensure compatibility and also to promise copy security, but now has circular language in the deal terms that make it frustratingly difficult to maintain as the lifespan of the product now extends past just one console generation.

For MS, this might all still be worth doing (or possibly even they though ahead to make their legal docs written with a bit more future-proofing in mind,) while Sony (and to a degree Nintendo, though they still sell Wii U and 3DS games) doesn't see the value in it, sadly.

sony would need to make their own emulator, and that seems to be too much for them.

Sony does have the emulators (and continues to put in patents on emulation techniques, for whatever that's worth.) It's unclear how much work they have put into PS3 or Vita emulation specifically (although those are more modern platforms that fit today's API implementations; PS3 has its CELL specialness yet it's not a mystery box,) but I would say the emulators are the smallest bit of this equation.
 
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DrAspirino

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It's been mentioned before, but what Microsoft calls "backward compatibility" for Xbox/Xbox 360 games on Xbox One isn't true backward compatibility. The Xbox One does not actually emulate the older systems and run the original code straight up. Instead, the games from the older systems are recompiled to run as "native" Xbox One games. That is one reason why the system doesn't run games directly off of the discs, and requires you to download them from Microsoft's servers.
You're partly correct. Some games are effectively emulated (like Mass Effect, for example) and some are recompiled. There are three things the Xbox 360 did right that ensured backwards compatibility with future consoles (whatever platform they may be):

1) Use of a "standard" PowerPC CPU (very well documented) BUT without the out-of-order execution units. That alone reduces the ammount of computing power needed to emulate the CPU.
2) Use of "hardware agnostic" libraries like DirectX, with few "direct access" to metal, so if/when it is time to port a game to PC or future Microsoft console, the recompiler or emulator wouldn't have a hard time translating instructions.
3)Use of virtual machines (Hypervisor) at the lowest possible level, so all the games run on their own virtual machine, isolated from the rest of the "native" OS and almost completely self contained.

So... Xbox One and Xbox Series X|S use exactly the same concept: a hypervisor running at the lowest level (bare metal), a "coordinating" OS (the launcher), and virtual machines containing the games. To have backward compat, they simply have to run a VM player for any game, and apply a specific patch to translate some DirectX instructions from previous gen, that are specific to that particular game (because the PowerPC CPU has been emulated for years on x86...even from the Pentium 4 years, and is extremely well documented).
 
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Kuranghi

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I can tell the difference between 26ms tv lag and 32ms tv lag.

That’s almost half a frame.

Whats changing to make it go from 32ms to 26ms, do you mean the same output (ie same game, same resolution, same refresh rate, SDR/HDR, etc) on two different TVs?
 

Ozrimandias

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Based on my experience with PS3 emulation, Zen 2 in PS5 is too weak to emulate some PS3 games in full speed, most of them probably but not all. Same was true for PS2 software emulation on PS3

For RPCS3:



In monday I got my 3rd (sold previous units years ago) PS3 :messenger_tears_of_joy: I went: 80GB FAT -> Super Slim -> Slim 3004 (this one is the best)
Care to describe decent CPU to run those games o a laptop? (because that is what i got); probably interested in try RPCS3
 

laser_printer

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The Tech is there it just that they Sony has no desire to do it since it won't be a money cow for them.
Pretty much this. I don't think people want to admit Microsoft's BC effort was because they needed to move consoles considering they sold just above original Xbox in terms of consoles, they had to get people interested somehow.
 
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I recently played Dead Space on Series X. This week I bought a copy of Portal 2 on 360 so that I could play co-op with my wife. I own both of these games on PS3 but I can't play either on my PS5. I would very much like to play through the Resistance series again. I could even make a case for playing through all of the old Killzone games. They were a bit a head of their time in a lot of ways. I would like to see what the more powerful hardware would do for games like that. Yet none of these are currently playable on the PS5. Well, maybe if streamed using PS Now. However, I am not even sure they are all on there.

A few others I would like to revisit are all the God of Wars, Sly Cooper, Ratchet & Clank, and most of all Metal Gear.

After seeing the news of the stores for the PS3, Vita, and PSP closing really got me thinking. Not so much that I want to buy these games on those systems. Although, I do really like the Vita and I think they gave up on it too quickly. But rather, I just want to be able to play these games on the PS5.

Give props where they are due.. Xbox has really done a good job at adding backwards compatibility to their platform. But it could be even better. Most of those games I listed are Sony games. I just wish Sony would have the same features on their platform.

I saw earlier today that back compat games are coming to XCloud. So I can now pick up where I left off on Oblivion from my phone. All my old game save are there waiting for me. That is crazy cool. That game is from 2006! I still enjoy the heck of it. We can even go back to Morrowind from 2002. I didn't play that one. Not sure if I should now or not. But it's available if I wanted to.

And before you all say it, yes I know PS3 is super hard to code for and therefor hard to emulate. That's just an excuse. If Sony really wanted to they could find a way. They created the beast they should have some ideas on how to mimic it. And yes, I too want "NEW" games as well. We can have both. If Xbox can do it Sony certainly could as well. Like who doesn't like Dead Space and Portal 2? Sure, they are old but they are still great games. Locking away Metal Gear 4 to a platform that will soon not even have a store front makes me sad!



You are right, if they really wanted to, they could find a way.

They don't want to.
 

StateofMajora

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Whats changing to make it go from 32ms to 26ms, do you mean the same output (ie same game, same resolution, same refresh rate, SDR/HDR, etc) on two different TVs?
26 ms is my A8h oled with bfi engaged (18ms not engaged), 32 ms is my x900e in game mode. So when I change what TV i'm playing on lol.

Granted, i'm usually playing a different game, but i've played a lot of the same games on both, because my ps4 pro was hooked up to the x900e for about 3 years. Apples to apples, say wipeout omega collection ; the A8h is noticeably more responsive.
 
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Zeroing

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Am I the only one seeing that the games that were on ps3 store were not pc versions and it’s easier to access old pc games when you own windows and your new console runs on x86 ???

so, from the non stop “game pass is the biggest thing since the wheel” now we have the “MS saves the old games”

the company is trying to get free marketing and free will.

I though I was dramatic but I guess I am not!
 
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Keihart

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and I don't get it. their emulator even on PS3 can play A TON OF GAMES... now with softmods people can actually try every game on it and so many work really well, it is ridiculous that they didn't offer backwards compatibility for those titles.

here are the STATS, and this is only from th egames tested, many are untested because they are niche or people simple didn't post their findings:
218 Games are "Official PS2 Classics"
665 Games are "Playable"
118 Games have "Minor Issues"
47 Games have "Major Issues"
73 Games are "Unplayable"

this means, on a modded PS3 you can play more than 1000 PS2 games without any major issues. the "Minor Issues" category are games that have small graphics glitches or minor slowdowns, the "Playable" category run almost 100% correct as they did on PS2. and again, not every game was tested and the last update on this was in June 2019

and remember, this is the emulator they used for the officially released PS2 games, so this was not even tested or optimized for all the other games whatsoever.
and the fact that the 200 or so officially released download versions are not compatibly via disc is another thing.

EDIT: here are the stats on a modded PS4 btw:

54 Games are "Official PS2 Classics"
536 Games are "Playable"
180 Games have "Minor Issues"
91 Games have "Major Issues"
251 Games are "Unplayable"

so on PS4 we have 770 perfectly playable to highly playable PS2 games with an emulator that was only optimized for 54 officially downloadable games! SEVEN HUNDRED AND SEVENTY!

as a reminder, there are only 577 Xbox 360 games backwards compatible on Xbox One/SX (which is a matter of licensing mostly, because they have to repackage the game and so they need the rights to do that)
And it can play PSP games as well, the PSP library it's massive.
I feel really lucky to have Ultimate Ghost n Goblins on my Vita, that game got delisted a while ago.
 
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stitch1

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Am I the only one seeing that the games that were on ps3 store were not pc versions and it’s easier to access old pc games when you own windows and your new console runs on x86 ???

so, from the non stop “game pass is the biggest thing since the wheel” now we have the “MS saves the old games”

the company is trying to get free marketing and free will.

I though I was dramatic but I guess I am not!
This still sounds like an excuse for Sony to say, "Oh well, too bad you bought our most expensive system and then had the audacity to buy games for as well. Surely, you never expected to play them in the future?!"
 
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Zeroing

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This still sounds like an excuse for Sony to say, "Oh well, too bad you bought our most expensive system and then had the audacity to buy games for as well. Surely, you never expected to play them in the future?!"
I am not excusing them, they did in fact make an exotic console that was hard to develop for, without thinking about the future. PS now was a way to make bc games available.

but between licenses, different platforms emulation. It is a bigger mess than with the x86 architecture!
 
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EDMIX

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too bad you bought our most expensive system

If you have the system, you can play the game on there so.....yea.

then had the audacity to buy games for as well. Surely, you never expected to play them in the future?!"

?? Who says you can't play old games? huh? I've seen nothing in regards to not being able to play games bought, outside of not having the system, not wanting to buy a new one or the game being scratched etc and all of that is up to the user, not any company.

To my understanding, the PSN store thing is based on games no longer being able to be purchased, you can still PLAY the games you bought and you can still re-download the games you bought etc. So if anything you might have to better explain what you are talking about.

None of that is an "excuse", that is simply logical of any device.

YOU bought the system.
YOU bought the games.

YOU want to play them in the future ? Ok\..., you can simply fucking KEEP THE SYSTEM AND THE GAMES. It is not Sony or MS or Nintendo or any companies responsibly to provide all of it or something.

Its like saying some shit like "Switch can't play Wii, Wii U, Gamecube games or GBA or DS or 3DS games, woooooowwww broo Oh well, too bad you bought our most expensive system and then had the audacity to buy games for as well. Surely, you never expected to play them in the future?!"

Why the fuck would they be responsible for YOUR hardware you bought the gen prior? So they expect you to play games....on their respective systems.
 
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stitch1

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Are you really going to tell me you wouldn't want Metal Gear 4 to be playable on a PS5?
 
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DrAspirino

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Ok\..., you can simply fucking KEEP THE SYSTEM AND THE GAMES. It is not Sony or MS or Nintendo or any companies responsibly to provide all of it or something.
Errhmm... nope, you're wrong.

In a lapse of as little as 8 years, thermal paste dries, capacitors degrade, lenses get scratched, hard drives begin to fail, and - depending on the weather of the part of the world where you live - connectors begin to rust due to humidity. I'm not exagerating. Those are FACTS. It happens to computers, it happens to cellphones, it happens to every single consumer-grade electronic device and as such, consoles are certainly NOT the exception.

Sure, you can store your optical media with utmost care, but in time it will degrade too (albeit really slowly).

To give you an example, last year I played Chrono Cross again. A PS1 game I had that's over 19 years old, yet it still is a masterpiece. Do you know where I played that game?

On my PC, because I'm lucky enough to still have a PC with a disc reader and capable of running emulators.

My trusty PS1 failed on me due to materials degrade (the laser couldn't read discs anymore), and I think most consoles from that period are dying of old age. If I didn't have a disc drive on my PC, I'd be SOL.

Tell me if that isn't Sony shitting on their own history and achievements. Masterpieces from PS1, PS2, and PS3 don't deserve at all the treatment Sony is giving them.
 
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stitch1

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@

EDMIX EDMIX


I'll even go a step further. I never owned the PS1. I had access to one from time to time but never had one of my own. When the PS2 came out I was like dang.. I can play all those PS1 games on the PS2. So I'll buy a PS2 and a bunch of PS1 games. I got myself the PS2 and bought Tony Hawk, Metal Gear Solid, FF7, and a few other PS1 games. That was my main system for quite a while and those games were all I need for quite a while. There wasn't THAT many major PS2 games at the time. The first game I remember being hyped for was GT3 and then GTA3 and somewhere in there was MG2. The PS2 became a beast shortly thereafter. I just wish they would have stuck with that with the PS4 and now PS5.

Losing access to older games because the consoles ages out just sucks.
 
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Kuranghi

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26 ms is my A8h oled with bfi engaged (18ms not engaged), 32 ms is my x900e in game mode. So when I change what TV i'm playing on lol.

Granted, i'm usually playing a different game, but i've played a lot of the same games on both, because my ps4 pro was hooked up to the x900e for about 3 years. Apples to apples, say wipeout omega collection ; the A8h is noticeably more responsive.

Here is a test you can do to make sure its not just because you already know the input lag is different.

Set up graphics and game picture modes the same (There is no processing difference here afaik, it should be the same, both support 444 chroma, if you set nvidia/amd control panel to handle image scaling then it won't matter anyway as the TV will just get a 4K image regardless of what the game is outputting) but set one of them to have BFI on and the other off.

I assume you have to increase the backlight setting to compensate for brightness loss on the x900e so do that until you switch back and forth between them and you can't tell the difference in the images, brightness wise, etc.

Then get someone else to randomly choose which picture preset has BFI on and have them set the backlight to the value you settled on earlier, so that when you come back in the room (This is so elaborate haha sorry) you can't tell the difference again but you don't know which has BFI on, which you said adds 10ms.

Then do some tests and see if you guess which one is 10ms slower, if you are saying its obvious between 26ms and 32ms then 10ms should be really obvious.

I'm not suggesting this because I want to rub it in your face if you are wrong, just so that you can make future purchases without worrying about this stuff anymore... and if you guess right more often than not then I'll look like a big fanny and you can rub it in my face haha.
 

EDMIX

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but I know a lot of people that didn't buy an Xbox One last gen that were excited to get the Series X for that reason alone.

That "reason" existed for XONE though, did it not have 360 support?

It already applied to XONE, shit it applies to Wii U, its BC to Wii. Its literally the worst selling Nintendo console, yet Switch with ZERO BC is breaking records for them.

I don't know how much evidence is really needed to show the vast mass majority seek to play new content, they do not play that much games past 6 months after release let alone past 6 years.

So I tend to play lots of older games around the PS1 or PS2 generations , as to why I KEEP MY SYSTEMS or even recently I was playing the Link To The Past port on the GBA Player for the Gamecube, I'm sorry but I KNOW I'm not the majority, I fully 100% understand the way I play games isn't what MOST are doing.

MOST are not taking time out of their week to randomly play Xenosaga 3 or connect a Gamecube to play an old GBA game.... what does that tell you about that actually install base for games like that? Its simply not the majority and little evidence supports this huge audience for it, just the opposite. The info I last saw was something like 1.5% or something, which I'm not really shocked.

Look at the Switch numbers, look at the PS4 numbers, shit look at the SALES of brand new games, its clear the majority seek NEW GAMES, they do not seek older titles outside of a Minecraft and or GTAV. So enough shows its simply not something that a majority seek. I know personally how I game simply isn't what most are doing or care for. If you give that much of a fuck about old games, give that much of a fuck about the systems that PLAY THOSE GAMES if you wish to even continuing playing them. To me, the entire argument is a complete BS hypocrisy of folks claiming how much they care for their old games and wish sooooo badly to play them (yet didn't keep the systems, have never heard of Amazon, Ebay, goodwill or a yard sale for god sakes)

So with PS3 they had to move the fuck on, I saw no reason them to literally take steps BACK so you could play old games as if you can't buy a PS2 (or PS3 for that matter post PS3). Cell is something at the time they needed to do and I have no issue with it. They can remaster and or remake those key titles and move on. Even for PS6, if they have some crazy ass CPU shit and it can't work with other systems, idgaf. Work with the new, move on and folks can keep their PS5's if they feel just, but relax with this crap of making it sound as if the company needs to literally halt all new innovations to cater to BC.... Its nice, its not lets gimp our fucking system for life nice..... NOTHING is stopping you from getting a job and buying a used PS2 (that has PS1) and a used PS3.

DrAspirino DrAspirino Thats nice. My PS2 from legit 20 years ago is still working (along with the others I bought over time) lol

No company owes you free hardware to replace other hardware, or continued free copies of a game or anything weird like that. Shit, My PC failed, I fucking bought the parts to build a new one, I didn't bitch to a company to provide me with one as if I have zero responsibility for my own purchases or something. The reality is, hardware fails over time, but no company NEEDS to provide you with replacements for free, for live. As someone that literally builds PCs, I fully understand over time....yes, shit fails, I replace it and move on. I had a DS that died and I just bought the DS Lite lol I had a PS2 slim that died.....bought a new one from Ebay.

Did you not know you could....well buy things with money? Sony, nor Nintendo, nor MS owe you anything like new hardware for free or something.

To say they are "shitting" on their history is just exaggerating. Its like saying Nintendo is "shitting" on their history cause you can't play SNES, NES, N64, Gamecube, Wii, Wii U, GB, GBA, DS, 3DS etc on Switch. ohhhh the horror, Nintendo HATES their customers and history /s


For fuck sakes, you can't even NAME 1 company that has BC of 100% of their titles or something or gives them for free completely. Nothing in the industry like that exist to demand it from any company. We have zero example of anything like that, even in other industries. Most of today's Bluray players do not play DVD (unless you clearly have a combo one), let alone VHS. When they make remasters in HD, 4KUHD etc, its not like you get it for free or anything like that, again...nothing like this exist in any industry to my understanding to be making it seem as if it should be this normal thing, yet have zero example of it happening before with others to such a wild degree.
 
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StateofMajora

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Here is a test you can do to make sure its not just because you already know the input lag is different.

Set up graphics and game picture modes the same (There is no processing difference here afaik, it should be the same, both support 444 chroma, if you set nvidia/amd control panel to handle image scaling then it won't matter anyway as the TV will just get a 4K image regardless of what the game is outputting) but set one of them to have BFI on and the other off.

I assume you have to increase the backlight setting to compensate for brightness loss on the x900e so do that until you switch back and forth between them and you can't tell the difference in the images, brightness wise, etc.

Then get someone else to randomly choose which picture preset has BFI on and have them set the backlight to the value you settled on earlier, so that when you come back in the room (This is so elaborate haha sorry) you can't tell the difference again but you don't know which has BFI on, which you said adds 10ms.

Then do some tests and see if you guess which one is 10ms slower, if you are saying its obvious between 26ms and 32ms then 10ms should be really obvious.

I'm not suggesting this because I want to rub it in your face if you are wrong, just so that you can make future purchases without worrying about this stuff anymore... and if you guess right more often than not then I'll look like a big fanny and you can rub it in my face haha.
Is it enough that I can instantly tell the difference between 18ms and 26ms when toggling bfi on and off on A8H? I went back and forth playing Yoshi's crafted on switch like that, on A8h. Noticeably laggier with bfi on, but damn it looks smoother so I keep it on always lol. And it is definitely not a placebo effect. However, the difference isn't as pronounced depending on the type of game.

Are you talking about having BFI on either the A8h and X900e for the blind test? Because BFI doesn't incur input lag hit on the LCD. There's an 8 MS difference between bfi on and off on A8h, 0 difference on X900e. I'd be able to tell easily if the X900e had bfi off because the difference is larger than having no Bfi on oled due to the response times. If the A8h has the bfi off, the difference in lag is massive. Once, I had a samsung 7 series lcd before I got the X900e, and the former had 20ms lag. That was really missed when I went to the x900e, but I accepted it because of the massive picture quality increase.

I'm not just saying this to brag about having cyborg eyes or anything ; I do go back and forth in settings like a madman when trying to settle on picture settings lol. Drives the lady nuts sometimes haha.

I could tell the difference with bfi on and off before I even had the lag tester, because a user here said picture processing adds lag (smooth gradation etc.) and I told him I felt no difference. Except for BFI. Before I even had the lag tester. People said that processing adds lag, so it's not like I was just listening to people and then "noticing" the lag lol. I noticed all of this stuff by myself, and sure enough turning off smooth gradation and stuff didn't lower the lag at all when I tested it.
 
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EDMIX

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Is it enough that I can instantly tell the difference between 18ms and 26ms when toggling bfi on and off on A8H? I went back and forth playing Yoshi's crafted on switch like that, on A8h. Noticeably laggier with bfi on, but damn it looks smoother so I keep it on always lol. And it is definitely not a placebo effect.

Are you talking about having BFI on either the A8h and X900e for the blind test? Because BFI doesn't incur input lag hit on the LCD. There's an 8 MS difference between bfi on and off on A8h, 0 difference on X900e. I'd be able to tell easily if the X900e had bfi off because the difference is larger than having no Bfi on oled due to the response times.

I'm not just saying this to brag about having cyborg eyes or anything ; I do go back and forth in settings like a madman when trying to settle on picture settings lol. Drives the lady nuts sometimes haha.

I could tell the difference with bfi on and off before I even had the lag tester, because a user here said picture processing adds lag (smooth gradation etc.) and I told him I felt no difference. Except for BFI. Before I even had the lag tester. People said that processing adds lag, so it's not like I was just listening to people and then "noticing" the lag lol. I noticed all of this stuff by myself, and sure enough turning off smooth gradation and stuff didn't lower the lag at all when I tested it.

True. I can't tell myself, but I won't doubt that you can see and feel a difference. I know many gamers that can. Sometimes it depends on games too.

stitch1 stitch1 Keep in mind, I'd LOOOOOVE to play MGS4 on my PS5.......as a complete remake or remaster FOR PS5. I already own a special edition PS3 for it and a collectors edition copy of it. Good ass game imho. I'd love to play it, but its not a deal breaker for me as I already own it and can play it and if its on PS5 simply thru BC, the minor stuff being updated would still have me wanting a proper remaster or remake etc. The ability to play a title on a different system does nothing for me lol

I bought the MGS collection on PS3 and I literally have a BC PS3 that can play those games natively and a PS2 to play them....

If they had some crazy ass wizard shit where the PS5 made em in 4K, 60 fps then damn that would be cool, but very, very unlikely. I'd still want a proper remaster. I even got the SoTC remaster on PS3, even with me having the PS2 copy.

BC may not be enough for all fans imho. They still want dem extra goodies lol
 
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Keihart

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If you have the system, you can play the game on there so.....yea.



?? Who says you can't play old games? huh? I've seen nothing in regards to not being able to play games bought, outside of not having the system, not wanting to buy a new one or the game being scratched etc and all of that is up to the user, not any company.

To my understanding, the PSN store thing is based on games no longer being able to be purchased, you can still PLAY the games you bought and you can still re-download the games you bought etc. So if anything you might have to better explain what you are talking about.

None of that is an "excuse", that is simply logical of any device.

YOU bought the system.
YOU bought the games.

YOU want to play them in the future ? Ok\..., you can simply fucking KEEP THE SYSTEM AND THE GAMES. It is not Sony or MS or Nintendo or any companies responsibly to provide all of it or something.

Its like saying some shit like "Switch can't play Wii, Wii U, Gamecube games or GBA or DS or 3DS games, woooooowwww broo Oh well, too bad you bought our most expensive system and then had the audacity to buy games for as well. Surely, you never expected to play them in the future?!"

Why the fuck would they be responsible for YOUR hardware you bought the gen prior? So they expect you to play games....on their respective systems.
You know, i'm very much in agreement with the sentiment of "just keep using your old console" IF Sony wasn't going out of their way killing you access to digital games that is. Have you tried downloading anything from the downloadlist in PS3 and Vita? That's just the company attempting to put as many barriers as possible without getting sued, it was perfectly possible to have old and new games listed in the web store while the ability to purchase some was taken down as licenses expired, in fact, this was the situation even after the store was changed using the links that don't work anymore.

Not being able to remote download or a more functional download list on this oldsystems it's basically killing their digital libraries, it's not gonna take much more time before they pull the plug unless they are afraid of getting sued in EU or something. Very few people it's gonna take the time to find anything in those downloads lists if they even keep working.

Obviously most of this is covered on the stupid terms of services that basically say whatever without the expectation to be actually legal and binding, who is gonna keep wanting to buy "digital" if the company selling it's just telling you that fuck you and your library.
 
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