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The biggest problem with GoW:R / GT7 / H:FW being cross-gen is that we will have to wait another 3+ years to see strongest Sony ip's in full PS5 power

eastcoastkody

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Neither you or I have played one second of Horizon 2. We've seen nothing but a cypher of the logo of God of War Ragnarok. And aside from a barren desert of Nanite wasteland, nobody has seen any game actually made of "true next-gen" technology like Unreal Engine 5. We can have a discussion about what gameplay revolutions PS5 exclusives such as Astro's Playroom, Returnal, Destruction All-Stars, and Demon's Souls bring to gaming, but I have a feeling that chat will be short...

How can we know what gameplay limitations there are to hate?



Apologies if that came off wrong, I'm not using the word "gimmick" in a negative sense. It's the term for a new twist on a traditional concept, by definition "an ingenious and usually new scheme or angle". It's their novel new invention for the 14th R&C game, and they're building the whole game around it, from story to play mechanics, much as they built Deadlocked around multiplayer and All 4 One around co-op.

But again, mastering the hardware doesn't come from just exclusive work. R&C Rift Apart was able to come together so well so quickly into the lifespan of PS5 because Spider-Man on PS4 and then Spider-Man Miles Morales cross-gen helped build tech equity that they could leverage while building a game that was in concept meant to make creative, specific use of PS5 hardware.
we already know the limitations of an 8 year old PS4 tho. We know it doesnt' stream/load fast enough for certain things. So u aint gonna be flying Glinthawks around at fast speeds in an open world...thats for sure
 

Shmunter

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Also, isn't it an assumption to say that this means we won't see the games in full power? They were designed for PS5, with strong RT and stuff (in the case of GT7), and we were all entirely satisfied that it was a next gen game... Now as soon as it has a scaled down version coming to previous gen consoles we think it is automatically gimped? Isn't that line of reasoning kinda, against time's arrow?
If the game needs to run on Jaguar cpu it means the core game logic cannot exceed that spec.

You are referring to superficial aspects of rendering only. However there are things unseen like physics, simulation, ai that are boxed in by last gen processing limitations.

No doubt the premium experience will be on PS5. But we will never know what could have been.
 

yurinka

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Well, key games doing cross gen are: GT7, Ragnarok and Horizon 2.

There's other big franchises which will come out which are unknown whether they will be cross gen or not. Since they havent been announced and the above are 2021-2022 games, they will likely be 2023 or later.

- Uncharted 5
- Spiderman 2
- LoU 3

Your guess if these are cross gen too, or Sony cuts the cord at that time.
If what Jason said is real (at least he was right with Bend working now on a new IP), ND is working on:
-TLOU2 Factions MP game
-TLOU2 PS5+ supporting/overviewing/leading the new San Diego team on TLOU1R
-Uncharted spin-off they were working with Bend but Bend left the project so probably it's canned or maybe ND is working on it alone

ND seems interested on making a new IP as their next big project but is open for a TLOU3 and they did a small preproduction work for it in case they make it in the future.

Considering HFW, GT7 and GOWR are crossgen and Demon's Souls, Returnal or specially Ratchet isn't, I'd bet Spider-Man 2 won't be crossgen because Sony seems to prefer to have some games crossgen and other ones next gen only. We'll see more Sony crossgen games (probably the game from the Destiny guys since they seem to be working on it since 2018 and it's going to be MP), but not a lot of them.

Sony Santa Monica and Guerrilla seem to be working on another game in addition to GoWR and HFW, so pretty likely they started them later, who knows if can even be released late 2022 or early 2023 and maybe won't be crossgen.

Wtf is this 😆 Microsoft said every game they make for the first 2-3 years will be playable from Xbox one to series x. Meanwhile PS5 has 3 next gen only games in like 7 months and Microsoft has zero. People sure do like to discredit those PS5 exclusives for crazy reasons though to try to even the playing field.
In fact, if we count Astro and (to be released next week) Ratchet they are 5.
 
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Tschumi

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If the game needs to run on Jaguar cpu it means the core game logic cannot exceed that spec.

You are referring to superficial aspects of rendering only. However there are things unseen like physics, simulation, ai that are boxed in by last gen processing limitations.

No doubt the premium experience will be on PS5. But we will never know what could have been.
I appreciate your thoughtful message.

I also accept what you say.

I just still think, ignorantly perhaps, that it's a bridge too far to assume design decisions made before cross gen was announced were arbitrarily lowered. I'm just saying it feels like they'll downgrade a PS4 version out of a fully featured Ps5 version, rather than suddenly invert their engine and hold back an already optimal Ps5 version...

I hear what you're saying about engine stuff, And i clearly don't know as much as you about that, maybe they've known it would be cross gen for a long time - that doesn't seem to be the case to me - I'm just thinking the game will still look like a fully featured next gen game on Ps5. I mean i guess I'll be proven right or wrong later.

Either way, as a ps4 pro owner for a year or two longer at least, I'm really stoked that gt7 will be on my system, regardless of visuals, especially since i haven't been able to play gt6 since i sold my ps3...
 
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A good chunk of dev time started on the PS4. Why wouldn’t it be crossgen? Also we don’t know what other PS5 only games there are anyway. Why is Gaf so dramatic???
 

bumleforce

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I know the fact that the witcher 3 could run on a potato pc really held it back. Scalability is real.
 

RevenantX

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These stupid threads pissing me off.


Listen, PS5 and SX dont got many nextgen games but improvement and QoL cganges these consoles offer alone make them worth upgrading over last gen.

Way faster loadtimes, 60fps and better fidelity alone more than enough reason to upgrade. Experience of player playing HFW on PS4 will be good but vastly inferior compared to PS5 and same goes for any SX game.


Stop with these retarded threads - "Oh, Sony should have hold back PS5 4 years or PS5 or SX not worth buying now". Blah blah nonsense.

People who making such threads can't afford new consoles, so they jealous and looking to downplay these amazing nextgen consoles.
 
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Danjin44

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Some of you guys really believe game development is magic, but don't worry we are going to have exact same fucking conversation when PS6 comes out.

Seriously I never seen this much obsession over graphics as much as this place......just play the fucking game, good designs comes from actual talented designers and artist, not just from the tech.
 
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Yselacrey00

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Absolutely 100% agree. But that doesn't mean that a game is made for a console from the onset. That's where the disconnect is. People think that they design a game around the lower-end hardware and have to go through the painful process of redesigning it for the high-end. Let's take textures for example. No game company is going to make low res textures at the very beginning that can run on a low-end console and then turn around and remake all those textures for the high-end platforms. That's just dumb and a waste of money. If people took note of the enhancements on PC with multiplatform games compared to the consoles, they can see how the studio have the max design features initial on high-end SKU, mid-range SKU and low-end SKU (i.e. 10xx series boards and slower CPUs, etc..). In short, the design of games are very dependent on hardware that may not even exist yet (ala FS2020 for example) but the implementations of the advanced features are still developed. Scaling down is much easier to do than scaling up. I have no doubt in my mind that games like R&C and HFW are already running on PCs at those companies.
But have to accept developers will have to compromise. Everytime they develop a cross gen game they'll be thinking, "can this run on last gen consoles?" "Do I have to tweak it?"

For example, God of War devs wanted to make Kratos be able to throw his son to a mountain but the PS4 hardware couldn't do that. PS5 hardware can but it would be basically a different game. Same with Ratchet, there's no way the PS4 could change worlds like that, even if the devs make the graphics look like crap.
 

Guilty_AI

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how? it looks miles ahead of one and one stressed ps4 to the max
While it looks aesthetically good, from the showcase the game isn't really doing much in terms of rendering/graphics that hasn't been done by other games from last gen. Not only that, you can clearly see some "optimizations" that were done certainly because this was originally a PS4 title, like really aggressive LOD and pop-ins, low poly water and non-persistent debris.

HFW will probably look mostly the same as that on the ps4 save for a few things, like using higher detail character models only for cinematics, maybe some lower res shadows, no wave functions for the sea shore, etc. In fact, there was an article recently where devs pretty much confirmed a lot of this stuff i'm saying.
On the bright side, this also means the final ps5 version might look better than what was shown.
 
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KAL2006

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It's very unfortunate but even if these titles were PS5 exclusive they would be early exclusives. Now the Devs will have more time to know the PS5 development this better. Compare the visuals of inFamous Second Son and Ghost of Tsushima. Let's not forget Sony did the same thing with Gran Turismo 6 but instead of it being cross gen it was PS3 only and we got GT Sport late.
 

Enjay

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Ratchet and Clank is becoming this generation's Knack. I can't wait until the ps4 port comes out.
 

SafeOrAlone

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Its a mall consolation, but the PS5 version is always gonna be the definitive version. So at least we have that.
Actually, I'd bet on there being a PS6 version some day, or even an updated version down the road when there is a PS5 refresh.
 

Kerotan

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But at least in 3 years we'll see more improvements in those games and they'll blow us away again.
 

fart town usa

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I'm sorry but if GOW is considered one of Sony's strongest IP's, I should probably invest in XBOX, lol.

But seriously, don't be dramatic. The game is gonna come out, it's gonna look and play great. You have literally no idea what it would be like if it was developed solely for the PS5 so there's no use expending energy on being upset by it.

PS5 should just be considered Fantavision for 12 more months. Just be patient or get one next year.

 

llien

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Ok, a picture that is almost completely, but still not totally irrelevant to this thread (as it is made at Sony plant back in 1960, when staff was doing stretching brake)

 
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llien

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I'm sorry but if GOW is considered one of Sony's strongest IP's, I should probably invest in XBOX, lol

Go Away GIF
 
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fart town usa

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To my credit though, I bought all the GOW games at full price on release. Only one I haven't played is the PS4 game. I'm sure that's crazy to some people but I'm just over Kratos 100%. Any other character and I would have totally checked it out.
 
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llien

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To my credit though, I bought all the GOW games at full price on release. Only one I haven't played is the PS4 game. I'm sure that's crazy to some people but I'm just over Kratos 100%. Any other character and I would have totally checked it out.
I've played them all.
To me, the PS4 one is the pinnacle, nothing comes close.
I don't recall anything I've ever played giving me such a vivid physical feeling of a (well, OK, now, this is weird) insanely versatile magical melee weapon.
 
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Armorian

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Yeah... It's the same crap that happens on pc you know? So many games that can be played on onboard graphic cards and can't reach their full potential.

If only there was a thing called scalability and devs could add settings to turn on and off stuff according to the hardware capabilities... If only...


imagine hasan minhaj GIF by Patriot Act



:messenger_winking_tongue:

It was like that in the 90 and early 00 maybe, most console ports don't have much scalability (or at all), especially on CPU side), minimum specs are the target and same goes for PS4 with Jaguar from ~2013. GTX 1060/R480 is like minimum right now to play games, you can't really play modern games on worse GPUs with missing features.

PS4 used to be:

BEAST
E
A
S
T

just few years ago.

It wasn't really, it had decent GPU and reasonable amount of memory but CPU was shit from day 1.
 

Topher

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To my credit though, I bought all the GOW games at full price on release. Only one I haven't played is the PS4 game. I'm sure that's crazy to some people but I'm just over Kratos 100%. Any other character and I would have totally checked it out.

I thought the same exact thing......until I played the PS4 GoW. You don't know what you are missing.
 

fart town usa

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I thought the same exact thing......until I played the PS4 GoW. You don't know what you are missing.
Maybe someday, my brother says the same thing about it. Just the thought of hearing Kratos yell just makes me want to throw myself in front of a bus, lol.

I'll skim through a playthrough on YouTube to get an idea of it.
 
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Corndog

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I get what our saying but you are still working with assumptions. We don´t know if Barlog would go for bigger worlds or a different structure in terms of world-building and level design. It could be a possibility sure... but they could also go for a different route and have more density, crazier boss fights, better action sequences, etc.

I don´t know what you expected but I was amazed by Miles Morales on m 4k Screen. I was also amazed by what I saw from Horizon. This felt next-gen to me. Everything felt better and improved over the last title. And we also got the confirmation that the game will run in 60FPS. A game with this fidelity and performance is next-gen! There is currently nothing like it on the market.

And besides that: We are still getting PS5 exclusives. Ratched is around the corner and is clearly flexing the PS5 muscles. SONY will continue to sprinkle in PS5 exklusives. But there is nothing wrong with some cross gen titles over the next 2 years if we still get that fidelity.
What happened to all the only possible because of ps5 super fast io people? Must have gone over to that other site. That said there has always been cross gen games. Most launch exclusive games are rushed and short. Probably better for both Sony and Xbox to do some of each.
 
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abel empire

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I don't think we have to wait that long tho.
Oh you will, more performing hardware more memory means more time to make more detailed worlds, more detailed assets, better game design, better mechanics, research and development in new engines to use the new hardware in full. Current engines arent even optimized to use the ssds properly they are old school traditional engines that arent using the new gen features like mesh shading, geometry engine, ssd and io, vrs and whatthen not and ue5 just came out even it isnt using all nextgen features at the moment basically AAA games will take longer To produce having a faster ssd was said to help in lowering development time but im sorry itll only get worse,

We saw with raytracing ratchet and clanks first demo was using lower res raytracing and now its using highres raytracing with particles reflected aswell, and even an insomniac dev just said today that they are just scratching the surface of ps5, mind you some rendering aproaches in ratchet are still traditional and it already. Looks phenomenal now imagine a new ratchet and clank game with max ps5 feature set,. This is exactly why cross gen games are a shit waste. They should only make crossgen sports games or mediocre games not AAA blockbusters. It stinks
 

FunkMiller

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Maybe someday, my brother says the same thing about it. Just the thought of hearing Kratos yell just makes me want to throw myself in front of a bus, lol.

I'll skim through a playthrough on YouTube to get an idea of it.

Your problem is you think you’re getting the same Kratos.

You're really not.
 
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abel empire

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How is last gen holding back next gen?.....All next gen seems to offer is better loading times, fancy reflections, and higher resolutions.

We've had giant open-world games with no load screens for the last few gens. People are now suddenly acting like it's not possible.
Those are crossgen games they are made with older hardware in mind and older engines you seem new to how games work, are you saying that ps2 games used ps1 and n64 engines? Mate I hope your trolling!
 

Topher

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Those are crossgen games they are made with older hardware in mind and older engines you seem new to how games work, are you saying that ps2 games used ps1 and n64 engines? Mate I hope your trolling!

Diminishing returns. The gap between PS1 and PS2 was massive compared to the difference between PS4 and PS5. You could absolutely look at PS2 and know it wasn't PS1. That is getting harder and harder to do with each generation. The most noticeable visual improvement this gen has been frame rate and that is typically sacrificed when RT is used.
 

abel empire

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Diminishing returns. The gap between PS1 and PS2 was massive compared to the difference between PS4 and PS5. You could absolutely look at PS2 and know it wasn't PS1. That is getting harder and harder to do with each generation. The most noticeable visual improvement this gen has been frame rate and that is typically sacrificed when RT is used.
Diminishing returns is a silly word ive heard since x360/ps3. Your comparing silly crossgen games with res and fps enhancements as nextgen games which they arent so your basically either trolling or you have no idea how games are made. Only true nextgen games are demons souls and ratchet and clank all others are crossgen. This is the same as saying a pc with a 3090 has no difference to a ps4 sinoly because its running games designed for ps4.
 

Elder Legend

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lol @ this thread. I mean it was only last year with Last of Us 2 that we finally saw what the PS4 is really capable of. Don't pretend like none of you that is always the case with every generation.
 
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Topher

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Diminishing returns is a silly word ive heard since x360/ps3. Your comparing silly crossgen games with res and fps enhancements as nextgen games which they arent so your basically either trolling or you have no idea how games are made. Only true nextgen games are demons souls and ratchet and clank all others are crossgen. This is the same as saying a pc with a 3090 has no difference to a ps4 sinoly because its running games designed for ps4.

You can call diminishing returns a "silly word" all you want but it is simply a fact. If you want to pretend the graphical gap between PS1 and PS2 is the same as the gap between PS4 and PS5 then that is up to you, but it seems pretty obvious to me that isn't the case.

You seem to want to call anyone who has a different view a troll. What's with that? As far as I'm concerned, the only people who can really speak to "how games are made" are actual game devs which I am not and I'm pretty sure you are not either.
 
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abel empire

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You can call diminishing returns a "silly word" all you want but it is simply a fact. If you want to pretend the graphic gap between PS1 and PS2 is the same as the gap between PS4 and PS5 then that is up to you, but it seems pretty obvious to me that isn't the case.

You seem to want to call anyone who has a different view a troll. What's with that? As far as I'm concerned, the only people who can really speak to "how games are made" are actual game devs which I am not and I'm pretty sure you are not either.
You simply are talking bullshit, anybody can have is own views thats correct but your views are bullshit, your talking aboutabout diminishing returns when your simply comparing crossgen games if bullshit was anything its that. You cant blabbet about diminishing returns when comparing silly fps and resolution enhancements wait for proper nextgen games made for nextgen consoles and then compare to last gen consoles. Saying that the only difference is fps and high res is so stupid. Its so ridiculous that I must belive your trolling or you just plainly dont understand how games work.
 

Topher

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You simply are talking bullshit, anybody can have is own views thats correct but your views are bullshit, your talking aboutabout diminishing returns when your simply comparing crossgen games if bullshit was anything its that. You cant blabbet about diminishing returns when comparing silly fps and resolution enhancements wait for proper nextgen games made for nextgen consoles and then compare to last gen consoles. Saying that the only difference is fps and high res is so stupid. Its so ridiculous that I must belive your trolling or you just plainly dont understand how games work.

blink-182 wtf GIF
what the fuck GIF