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The biggest problem with GoW:R / GT7 / H:FW being cross-gen is that we will have to wait another 3+ years to see strongest Sony ip's in full PS5 power

VFXVeteran

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SSM has another game in development

As does GG
That may be true, but those will be their last for this gen. I count max of 2 games in every generation for each studio. Due to UE5's engine taking so many years to get to where it is, it will take other devs a good chunk of time for R&D as well. I said before that seeing this SSD->VRAM pipeline will probably be very limited this generation and more mainstream with PS6.
 
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SafeOrAlone

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trust me, all it takes is a fanboy to start that complain and everyone will jump at that outcry because of console wars.

we gamers are fickle. We have games releasing for the consoles… isn’t that good? Everyone wins, people who can’t find a PS5 and those who have a PS5

I think it's perfectly understandable to want PS5 games to take full advantage of the hardware. Especially two years in.
Scaling up the graphics isn't the same thing. I can understand the disappointment and I think Sony deserves the backlash for their lack of clarity on the subject. It's hard to look at any other way than deceitful.
 
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That may be true, but those will be their last for this gen. I count max of 2 games in every generation for each studio. Due to UE5's engine taking so many years to get to where it is, it will take other devs a good chunk of time for R&D as well. I said before that seeing this SSD->VRAM pipeline will probably be very limited this generation and more mainstream with PS6.

If these were just 1 game studios that might be true, but they're aggresively growing their internal studios

Just need to look at insomniac to see what's possible with successful expansion
 

THEAP99

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Well hopefully naughty dog have a new IP ready in 2024 cus that'll surely be next gen only
 

ManaByte

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Well hopefully naughty dog have a new IP ready in 2024 cus that'll surely be next gen only
Are You Sure About That John Cena GIF by MOODMAN
 

MrMephistoX

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Overall it proves they released PS5 a year too early pre COVID and probably 2 years early factoring in COVID. PS5 sells out but they must have sales data proving that either a majority of PS5 owners are playing PS4 titles or that PS5 exclusives aren’t selling nearly as well as cross Gen. it sucks but hard to blame Sony when it’s semi amazing the industry is still able to ship at all after 2020.
 

itsjustJEFF

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They do usually take 3-5 years, to make these "high-end" games. How long have they had hands on with the final specs? How long have they know about potential specs? Maybe a year or less before launch? So we "should" be expecting games that take advantage of these consoles advantages in the 2nd or 3rd year. I think there's a really good reason why we get some of the "best" games of a generation later in the gen. A lot of those games were started right before or during that generation. A lot of the earlier games in a generation potentially started on last gen and then modified, tweaked and McGyvered a partway through development.
 

FunkMiller

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Thats exactly what i'm saying, or rather, they aren't losing out that much since those aren't high profile titles.

For example, they DID make Miles Morales Cross gen, after all its spiderman and sells gangbusters, no way they'd lose out on the ps4 fan base. But a Ratchet and Clank? Some rogue lite shooter? They didn't even released sales numbers for their previous titles. They aren't missing much by skipping ps4 ports. Better keep them on the ps5 for their PR.

Right, right. Sony: famous for leaving money on the table that according to you would be easy to get. Just a super simple scaling down of a game that can easily run on old hardware.
 

FunkMiller

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They could easily run them. Turn down the graphics and have a 1 minute load time between world jumps.

Easy.

Season 4 Cat GIF by Paramount+

Yes, yes. Super easy, barely an inconvenience, and yet they didn’t do it. Despite losing out on millions of PS4 sales. Same goes for Microsoft.

Both companies, who didnt want to make more money from games that can easily be downgraded.

Sounds perfectly reasonable.
 

Shmunter

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Overall it proves they released PS5 a year too early pre COVID and probably 2 years early factoring in COVID. PS5 sells out but they must have sales data proving that either a majority of PS5 owners are playing PS4 titles or that PS5 exclusives aren’t selling nearly as well as cross Gen. it sucks but hard to blame Sony when it’s semi amazing the industry is still able to ship at all after 2020.
Think there were sales numbers for Spider-Man Morales and biggest sales were on PS5?
 
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Jigsaah

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Sony can walk and chew gum, relax man. They have some games that are in development for only PS5. Ratchet and Returnal are pretty much already here. Those are show pieces. Herman Hulst said so.
 
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Imagine believing they will actually improve game design because of the new hardware

"but but the SSD! the corridors!"
Don't act like open world sandboxes haven't existed for 2 decades now.
The reason they don't improve game design is far more commercial than technological. Gotta follow those algorithms that guarantee maximum revenue.


Last year, after the specs for both consoles came out and Xbox was ahead in every area, sony "fans" (the tribalistic ones) latched onto the only thing which had higher specs than the competition - the storage device. Then they went ahead with it to the point of parody, where the device that stores the data had become this device which will enable impossible games to be created and which will only run on the magic of sony's ps5.

You can see it in this thread. All the other games in the world are ignored. The problem is we wont see next gen games from out lord sony. Thats the big problem. We dont care about games which are coming out on other platforms, we need them to only exist on playstation to be interested in them
 
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Are you serious? What about NPC density? Amount of enemies on screen? Asset fidelity and complexity? AI? Physics?


AI and physics have been in games since games existed. They're not the focus because devs dont have them as focus in their games. If you want good AI in games, that needs to be a main goal and focus of the game from the drawing board. FEAR has that legendary AI and firefights because that was their main goal when they set out to do the game.
 

Derift

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Get over it... if you don't like it don't buy ps5 Jesus christ how many of these threads are going to be made....
 

ZoukGalaxy

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The biggest problem are people seeing a problem with this. Nothing to see here, move on and CHILL buddy.

I'm perfectly HAPPY with crossgen title, I even thank them for this.

If you are really about "power", just get a PC or, like me, get everything: best of all worlds.
 
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Right, right. Sony: famous for leaving money on the table that according to you would be easy to get. Just a super simple scaling down of a game that can easily run on old hardware.
concept and the story was definetely unique, it would've been a bigger game if the developers were more ambitious and didn't rush it to release. but i guess they're a small studio so they get a pass from me
 

SlimySnake

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Hope in 3 year Sony joins the dark side… day 1 pc ports.

testing the waters now, get a nibble on that user base…
I give it one.

ND has already hired devs with Nvidia GPUs and PC gaming experience. Job posting is already closed so they have already filled those positions.

Last year, Nvidia engineers went to Playstation's headquarters in San Mateo.

I wouldnt be surprised if GoW, Horizon and GT7 are delayed because they now have to make a PC port to launch on day one. That's when you get the most revenue, and make no mistake, their goal is to maximize their day one revenues. 2023 titles will all be on PC day one. Herman Hurst has already been caught lying once when he said last year that Horizon going to PC doesnt mean every PS exclusive is going to PC. Now we know they are, and now hes changed his tune to say they wont be on PC AT LAUNCH. Give him one more year and he will lie about something else.

They are now a multiplatform developer. They recently boasted about posting record revenue from MLB the Show because it was multiplatform. They are forcing their first party devs to make mobile games. They are forcing them to make GaaS games. Imagine applying to work at ND and finding out you have been put on the mobile team. That's whats happening at Sony right now.

 
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yurinka

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This is more sad when you think that to see truly next gen Gow/horizon (biggest Sony ip's) we will have to wait 4-5 years not to mention that another GT game might not come to this gen (polyphony is really taking their time).
We know that in addition to people like Insomniac or ND, Guerrilla or Sony Santa Monica have been also working on multiple projects at the same time. If I remember well, Guerrilla is at least working on a game with multiplayer and Santa Monica is working at least on a new IP. And in addition to this studios, Sony also has more 1st and 2nd party studios working on more games, some of them crossgen and some other ones PS5 only.

By the time next gen games are coming out the PS5 Pro will be on the horizon. PS5 is Sonys Series S.
Bullshit, with Ratchet Sony will have like half a dozen next gen only games.

Herman Hurst has already been caught lying once when he said last year that Horizon going to PC doesnt mean every PS exclusive is going to PC. Now we know they are, and now hes changed his tune to say they wont be on PC AT LAUNCH. Give him one more year and he will lie about something else.
No, you're the one lying. Where are the PC versions of Ratchet, Returnal, Demon's Souls or Astro?

He was right when saying that Horizon going to PC didn't mean every PS exclusive was going to PC, it is what they have been doing and the only thing they said they will do. They only ported a few PS4 old games to PC and they will port some more, but not all. Ryan said they would port more PS4 games, he didn't say they were PS5 games. They never said they will release thier games at launch on PC, and never said that will release their PS5 games on PC. They are only releasing some previous gen old ports on PC to get extra cash and extra fans.

If they release some F2P GaaS, it may be day one on PC because these games require a huge userbase because like 90% of the F2P players never pay. But that's all. In business terms, makes sense to cash the old PS4 games when still aren't too old and most gaming PC can run them, which isn't the same for games like Ratchet because only a tiny portion of PC players have a good enough GPU, SSD, etc.

So it makes sense for them to release old PS4 games while making time until there is enough amount of PC players with good enough hardware to run PS5 exclusives. So very likely they won't release PS5 only games on PC until several years in the future, probably at the end of the generation or with PS6 in the market.

They are now a multiplatform developer. They recently boasted about posting record revenue from MLB the Show because it was multiplatform. They are forcing their first party devs to make mobile games. They are forcing them to make GaaS games. Imagine applying to work at ND and finding out you have been put on the mobile team. That's whats happening at Sony right now.
Lies, lies and lies.

MLB is multiplatform because the licensor asked for it. They won't release their other Sony games on Xbox outside this IP. In fact, it's MLB who publishes it on Xbox, not Sony.

And no, they aren't forcing their first party devs. That is totally false. They have a studio under Sony Music (I don't understand why don't they move it to their gaming division) who is the one making mobile games, and now will use some PS IPs. They may open a new studio, or ask external mobile game studios to make more games if needed. They obviously won't ask ND, Insomniac, Guerrilla and so on to put their PS5 devs to work on mobile games and never said or even hinted that they will do it. And Sony will make some GaaS game (like MLB, or probably the new multiplayer IP from the former Destiny bosses) but they said that even if they will make games of all types (like multiplayer or GaaS), they will continue making big and small games, and single player narrative games will continue being their main game type.

Every game that start development before the end of last year started as ps4 game or at least on ps5 paper specs.
It sucks that the next God of war and others are cross gen but it would be literally impossible to not be. Unless they release a new ip before their next big game
GoWR, Horizon 2 and GT7 starter their production on 2017 or 2018. So when they made their preproduction and started to design and build these games they weren't able to have the PS5 specs because most of its technology didn't exist back then and even people like AMD didn't know how it was going to be.

They could know it was going to have faster CPU and GPU and a fast SSD. But not knowing the complete specs they couldn't make a proper budget of NPCs or polycount, to adapt their and level design around what it was able to stream, etc. These big ass AAA only were able to basically do the same than in previous gen and in the same way but with a prettier next gen version with more resolution, fps, maybe raytracing, etc. They couldn't change their workflow around a techology that still didn't exist.

Even the UE5, the first engine who seems is going to take advantage the 'full' potential of this next gen hardware, or at least will go beyond of basically just adding more resolution/fps/RT, will have its first complete version at aprox. the end of this year. And this is the biggest game engine team in the world, and working only in an engine and not in a full game too.

We know Guerrilla is working on at least another game in addition to Horizon 2, and same goes with SSM and GoWR, they have at least another game. Same goes with Bend's new IP: they started a few years later than HFW and GOWR so very likely they started knowing the PS5 specs and are building these games around them. Then there's Insomniac, who releases games super fast every year. Then there's their other 1st and 2nd party teams. So there are many other project who could have started knowing the PS5 specs and designing the games and engine around them, but not GoWR, Horizon 2 and GT7.

As Morales, Demon's Souls, Sackboy or Returnal, GoWR, Horizon 2 and GT7 will be great and will look amazing bu they won't take full advantage of the SSD speed. But others will.
 
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Sony can fuck themselves.

This is the first ever gen when we have so many big titles being crossgen.
And of course it has an impact : it spreads the Devs resources thin. 1 day spent on the PS4 version is one day less for ps5 version.

" We believe in generation" : no, Sony does not believe in generation.
 

VFXVeteran

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Why are you like this? You CLEARLY are smart enough to understand how and why making a game on the Xbox Series X and Xbox One would hold the game design, graphics, and physics back for a game.
First of all, you can't make a game on the consoles. They are made on the PC. All graphics engines are scalable such that their features are implemented even if the current hardware can't run with said features. It's been this way in forever. You compile out to the different SKUs. Anything can be scaled back will be scaled back but the graphics engine is on a different timeline from the consoles. I've said this so many times I'm actually tired of repeating it.
 

Stooky

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i dont understand the argument. these games will look much better late gen as devs get more experience on the hardware.
 
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Yselacrey00

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I don't think we have to wait that long tho.
For Sony IPs I think yes, the earliest would be 2023. Maybe 2022 if Naughty Dog is working on that remake exclusively for PS5, but that would be just Demon's Souls all over again, nothing new to play.
 

FunkMiller

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I love how some of you can still console war over this, despite Microsoft and Sony doing the exact same thing with cross gen, and a majority of their games within the first two years of Ps5 & Series X coming out 😂
 

Kenpachii

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Title - it is ridiculous that from onward into the nearest future we have only one Sony IP AAA game to be released with only PS5 in mind - Ratchet and Clank.

This is more sad when you think that to see truly next gen Gow/horizon (biggest Sony ip's) we will have to wait 4-5 years not to mention that another GT game might not come to this gen (polyphony is really taking their time). I wouldn't mind for GT7 to be whole-gen game with updates across the generation but with PS4 dragging it down it does not seems like a good idea. Imagine 5 years into the future Polyphony will have to Dlc on ps4 too.

Not to mention really disingenuous Sony marketing showing GT7 and other titles as PS5 exclusives and not mentioning PS4 versions while making fun of Xbox at the same time. Sony is becoming the Apple of gaming with its arrogance...

Exactly problem i had with cyberpunk. thanks to that shitter we gotta wait another 4-5 years probably for witcher 4.
 
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Yselacrey00

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First of all, you can't make a game on the consoles. They are made on the PC. All graphics engines are scalable such that their features are implemented even if the current hardware can't run with said features. It's been this way in forever. You compile out to the different SKUs. Anything can be scaled back will be scaled back but the graphics engine is on a different timeline from the consoles. I've said this so many times I'm actually tired of repeating it.
You are focusing on graphics but what about ram and CPU?

It happens on PCs too, I can't play a new game in my old crappy machine even if I choose the lowest settings.

Also, I don't know if console game studios are willing to release a version that looks like crap. It's different for PCs because it's the same game and you adjust the settings to whatever runs for you, so if the game looks and runs like shit, the blame isn't put on the studio but on you and your crappy PC. Games for consoles on the other hand aren't like this, the studio will actually have to adjust the game to Xbox one for example, and they will have to ship it with such low settings that I don't believe they'll be comfortable with because the perception will be different. Now it won't be your fault if the game looks like shit.

Just take Cyberpunk for example, PC gamers wouldn't have said a thing about the bugs and crashes, they would have said it's their fault because their gaming card can't run it (like crysis), but now look at the reaction of console gamers, the blame is not on them because the developers know exactly what console they have so there's no excuse to release a shitty game.

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is developers are going to take a lot into account what can run good on last gen consoles, if it can't then they're probably not gonna include it affecting new consoles as well.
 
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pratyush

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It's an issue only if you don't want to play good games. This way Xbox shouldn't have sold a single XSX till now because most of its games are 2-3 years away and that will also support previous gen? People play good games and leave developing to developers.
 

VFXVeteran

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You are focusing on graphics but what about ram and CPU?

It happens on PCs too, I can't play a new game in my old crappy machine even if I choose the lowest settings.

Also, I don't know if console game studios are willing to release a version that looks like crap. It's different for PCs because it's the same game and you adjust the settings to whatever runs for you, so if the game looks and runs like shit, the blame isn't put on the studio but on you and your crappy PC. Games for consoles on the other hand aren't like this, the studio will actually have to adjust the game to Xbox one for example, and they will have to ship it with such low settings that I don't believe they'll be comfortable with because the perception will be different. Now it won't be your fault if the game looks like shit.

Just take Cyberpunk for example, PC gamers wouldn't have said a thing about the bugs and crashes, they would have said it's their fault because their gaming card can't run it (like crysis), but now look at the reaction of console gamers, the blame is not on them because the developers know exactly what console they have so there's no excuse to release a shitty game.

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is developers are going to take a lot into account what can run good on last gen consoles, if it can't then they're probably not gonna include it affecting new consoles as well.
Absolutely 100% agree. But that doesn't mean that a game is made for a console from the onset. That's where the disconnect is. People think that they design a game around the lower-end hardware and have to go through the painful process of redesigning it for the high-end. Let's take textures for example. No game company is going to make low res textures at the very beginning that can run on a low-end console and then turn around and remake all those textures for the high-end platforms. That's just dumb and a waste of money. If people took note of the enhancements on PC with multiplatform games compared to the consoles, they can see how the studio have the max design features initial on high-end SKU, mid-range SKU and low-end SKU (i.e. 10xx series boards and slower CPUs, etc..). In short, the design of games are very dependent on hardware that may not even exist yet (ala FS2020 for example) but the implementations of the advanced features are still developed. Scaling down is much easier to do than scaling up. I have no doubt in my mind that games like R&C and HFW are already running on PCs at those companies.
 
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Guilty_AI

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Right, right. Sony: famous for leaving money on the table that according to you would be easy to get. Just a super simple scaling down of a game that can easily run on old hardware.
Saying they're leaving money on the table is like saying paying for TV commercials is just a waste of money because it gives no form of direct profit
 
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mckmas8808

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First of all, you can't make a game on the consoles. They are made on the PC. All graphics engines are scalable such that their features are implemented even if the current hardware can't run with said features. It's been this way in forever. You compile out to the different SKUs. Anything can be scaled back will be scaled back but the graphics engine is on a different timeline from the consoles. I've said this so many times I'm actually tired of repeating it.

But none of this makes sense to me. So what are devkits? Are you considering them PCs? Plus.......everything can't be scaled back. I'm only talking consoles here, not PC games.
 

phil_t98

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Last year, after the specs for both consoles came out and Xbox was ahead in every area, sony "fans" (the tribalistic ones) latched onto the only thing which had higher specs than the competition - the storage device. Then they went ahead with it to the point of parody, where the device that stores the data had become this device which will enable impossible games to be created and which will only run on the magic of sony's ps5.

You can see it in this thread. All the other games in the world are ignored. The problem is we wont see next gen games from out lord sony. Thats the big problem. We dont care about games which are coming out on other platforms, we need them to only exist on playstation to be interested in them
to be fair to the sony fans Cerny himself said game design would change because of the Ssd and yeah sony fans latched onto it
 
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