I watched the trailer again in 4k on my 65” tv and I’m warming up to it now.. there’s enough variety in the quick previews of planets and missions to be encouraging.. the graphics are a step up, the NPC facial animations in dialogue are great.. but it’s underwhelming. they may be holding back a full reveal because of the delay, and had to be selective?
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Starfield - Official Gameplay Trailer Reveal (2023)
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Razvedka
Banned
Every generation this statement is made, or some variation. The "We should be past 30fps" assertion.
No, consoles never will be 'past' this because they're closed boxes constantly pushing what their silicon can achieve on screen. Absolutely some games will be at 60FPS, or have hybrid modes which can target 30 or 60. But the idea that 30 will 'go away' or that every game will or should reasonably have a 60fps mode is just not reasonable.
Don't get me wrong, I wasn't floored with what I was seeing from Starfield. So far from what we've been shown its trading blows with No Man's Sky on PC. Not exactly flattering*.
So I'm not defending Starfield with this comment, just in general addressing the core of your post.
*No Man's Sky is a beautiful game. It's just also 6 years old.
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Nydius
Member
Attitudes like this is why Bethesda keeps getting gold stars for releasing buggy, subpar, unoptimized shit using a cobbled together, years old engine.
Because you're "satisfied".
Well, I'm not. There's no excuse for 4k/30 on a solely "next gen" game that releases in 2023. Your Cyberpunk comparison is irrelevant since that game was developed for the Xbox One and PS4 specifically and the next gen upgrade was an after-the-fact addition. The game wasn't built around it.
I stand by the statement: 4K/30 for a next gen only title in 2023 is a fucking embarrassment.
It's not reasonable because you say so? Give me a break. This, like Salty Popsicle's comment, is the kind of attitude that lets developers continue to get away with this bullshit. There's zero excuse for this to not run at better than 4K/30 on the hardware provided by the Series X. If you're willing to be defeatist and believe consoles will forever be limited to 30 because reasons, that's your problem.
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Razvedka
Banned
Attacking Bethesda's penchant releasing buggy messes that aren't as shiny as competing games of their era due to their technical decisions is valid.
But using 4k 30fps as evidence of them not trying.. That's kind of a stretch man. 30fps is here to stay for a very long time, especially at whatever the current high standard of resolution is (today, that's 4k).
Salty Popsicle
Banned
LMAO, Cyberpunk was most definitely developed with the high-end PC crowd in mind. If Xbox One and PS4 had been the leading platforms, the game would not have looked like this when it released. Even today the game has trouble with those consoles extremely slow memory bandwidth capabilities and still runs at sub 1080p/20fps.
Razvedka
Banned
It's not reasonable because of the realities of writing software on a static piece of hardware in an industry where visuals and effects, the 'wow' factor, is a fierce competition. You cannot do increasingly 'more' with 'less' in that kind of cutthroat environment.
The only new variable here are mid-gen refreshes, and the ability to use variable-resolution and advanced upscaling techniques.
It's not because I say so, it's because this is just the way the limitations of the technology placed on the engineers (especially over time) coupled with consumer expectations for 'shiny' work out.
To wit, something has to give. Sub-4k resolutions for example.
I'm making my position as a software engineer of some 10 years now. No, not a game developer but coding is my life. My understanding of the field coupled with all the stuff I've read since I was like 13 on game development (interviews, current and former devs, articles, whatever) is the basis of my opinion here. I'm not just trying to be contrarian.
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Fredrik
Member
Mere mention of Horizon and L from Turok made fanboys harass him and hence the tweet was deleted
Some of you need to take a look
Ah I remember when I was a kid too, hating on Atari 520 without ever touching one and still argueing on the school yard with a class mate over how much better the Amiga 500 was, those were the days
Mister Wolf
Gold Member
Ah I remember when I was a kid too, hating on Atari 520 without ever touching one and still argueing on the school yard with a class mate over how much better the Amiga 500 was, those were the days
Yeah those were the days. Nowadays as adults we just buy everything. I wonder how many of us on the board own everything. PS5, Xbox/PC, and Switch.
Craig of War
Banned
Mere mention of Horizon and L from Turok made fanboys harass him and hence the tweet was deleted
Some of you need to take a look
John what is you doing? we all know twitter is a Fanboy heaven that cesspool of filth
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
I got a feeling that John is getting sick and tired of graphical comparisons. He seems to be a guy who would like to discuss game design in general, not just graphics, graphics, graphics.
Comparing games with such different scope and environments makes no sense.
Craig of War
Banned
He should join a actual gaming forum there is no point trying these things on twitter
The Fanboys will derail any convo on there
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
Sadly, it happens everywhere, even here.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
Bethesda has used procedural generation as far back as Oblivion, even before that. The No Man's Sky comparison is judging a more advanced studio to a much less advanced studio in terms of capability, man power and budget at the time No Man's Sky launched in the state that it was in with its planets looking like it has. Bethesda has always used procedural generation, but they've been able to always go in and touch it and modify with all their army of artists and designers.
And Todd Howard has recently confirmed Starfield has more hand crafted stuff than in any game before it. A breakdown I saw elsewhere.
Craig of War
Banned
True but way less then on Twitter and there are actual moderation on here unlike twitter
Fredrik
Member
I’d love to see a serious platform poll, with names shown.
But yeah I own everything. Still have a preference though but I think that’s perfectly fine, I try to be reasonable about it.
PC is the #1 for me nowdays, the calm zen zone, ”exclusives” from both Xbox and Playstation, smooth framerates.
Xbox is my #2, mostly since I get PC versions of the AAA exclusives day 1 and free through Play Anywhere, and Gamepass is awesome.
PS is #3, closing in fast on Xbox though because Sony simply deliver more AAA games, the PC evolution is starting to improve too and I have high hopes for PS+ Premium.
Switch is last, I love some of the games (BOTW, Odyssey, Dredd) but they come far too seldom, feels like I only play one game per year, haven’t played a single game yet this year.
Mister Wolf
Gold Member
The only time I use my PS5 is for exclusives that won't come to PC anytime soon. GOW 2, Demon Souls, Returnal, etc.
Fredrik
Member
Sounds awesome! All of it!
ChuckeRearmed
Member
I guess somebody will make a mod for transition from space to ground. Will be called "Skyrim: Open Space" 
Guilty_AI
Member
That would be very difficult to pull off though. If it was a planned feature that got abandoned maybe, since the groundwork would be already laid out, but since they've been separating both from the beginning there is most likely a lot of barriers on the way the software was written that wouldn't make it possible.I guess somebody will make a mod for transition from space to ground. Will be called "Skyrim: Open Space"
Well, a lot of this really depends, but if they're just instantiating ground and space in different scenes, i don't think modders could pull it off without it looking extremely rough.
Fredrik
Member
Same here but to be fair they’ve released a lot of games so that’s still a reason to enjoy it. I’ve already played through Lost Legacy (awesome!), played 20 or so hours of Horizon FW (great!), maybe 10 hours of GT7 (It’s good but progression is slooow). Haven’t played Returnal yet but plan to do it when PS+ launch in my area.
On Xbox I’ve just tried some random Gamepass games, and Tunic (great!) and Flight Sim Top Gun (awesome!). It’s been a really bad year tbh.
This year has been mostly about Elden Ring for me, on PC (and also Steam Deck = awesome!), 175 hours played, still exploring, Haligtree right now. One of my favorite games of all time. #4 behind Skyrim (3), BOTW (2), Super Metroid (1).
ChuckeRearmed
Member
I mean Skyrim Open Cities exists.
Guilty_AI
Member
Thats comparing apples to oranges though. Planet-space transitions have a lot more going on and more to consider than simply having a door between them.
With Skyrim you can just place the interiors/events inside the open world at the cost of some performance and call it a day.
With Starfield you'd have to deal with: different atmosphere layers and the transition between them (wouldn't have been implemented in vanilla), LOD levels for the ground (wouldn't have been implemented to take into account space approach), the layout of these planet/levels (do they obey the planets curvature? Are they just flat levels that cycle you between its ends?) and finally how the game would behave when flying with the ship on the surface (ground collisions, what your guns would do when shooting at the ground, how npcs would react to your ship, etc. lots of these things wouldn't have been implemented or even thought of when making the game)
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Ghost of Caelid
Banned
For a game the scale of starfield this doesn’t look good? I’m genuinely baffled by some of y’all.
The fuck happened here?
Ghost of Caelid
Banned
It’s obvious bait, what’s even the point? Scales of the game and style of the game is much different. BGS games tend to have more dynamic elements than any in the industry while the other games posted have more static elements to push visuals. Hence why not many can match the immersion of a Bethesda’s game. It just seemed like fanboy baiting imo. Starfield won’t look better than any game gureilla puts out ever. A guriella game won’t match the immersion of a Bethesda game ever. Different goals.
macfoshizzle
Member
Wow, you can't fly down to planets manually is a big one for me. Hoping modders will fix this.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
Yep. Fallout 4 dropped a whole year before the Foundation Update for No Man's Sky, but many, even on this very site, have suggested that it's Starfield copying No Man's Sky. And even Mass Effect and other games have done some of what No Man Sky did before it did it just in different ways. Even Mass Effect 2 years ago had us getting essential resources from planets to enhance or upgrade our ship or something, I forgot why exactly we were doing it, but I think it was ship related. I can't remember if Mass Effect 1 had that or not also.
WitchHunter
Banned
- STAR TRAVEL
- OVER 1000 PLANETS
- FULL DINAMIC SHOOTING
- FULL SHIP AND CHARACTER CUSTOMIZATION
Looks fucking high tech. Hope the main storyline is not 100+ hours long.
"but ultimately its not our story it's the story you create... and that starts with character creation"
so there will be racist slurs, good
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GigaBowser
The bear of bad news
I doubt it that will something that can be modded into the game.
They are probably not even using the same engine for flight as on land.
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
Yep I did the exact same and it really ramped up in the late part of the trailer. As long as it focuses on the experience and quality content, not just filler, we'll be good to go.
Shmunter
Member
The 30 hasn’t been confirmed as a target right? Let’s still expect 60. Consoles have plenty of compute & memory this gen, theres no excuse for anything to be 30. If anything it will carry fidelity/performance option. If not, there will be blood.Media outlets are already carrying buckets of water for Bethesda, excusing the fact that this 'next gen only' game is targeting 4K/30 fps. All of the sudden there are articles with lines like this: "To be honest though, how many of us are really turning to Bethesda for graphical capabilities?"
Targeting a 4k/30 baseline on the Series X in 2022/2023 is an absolute embarrassment. 4K/30 was barely acceptable, but understandable, on the One X. Just because past Bethesda games launched and ran like shit doesn't mean they deserve a medal for never improving. The very same article goes on to talk about mods for Skyrim, missing the point entirely that the most popular mods for Skyrim were ones that completely overhauled the graphics. Graphics mods were so popular, in fact, that Bethesda basically ripped them off to create the Special Edition re-release. I won't be surprised if they do the same thing for Starfield.
Shmunter
Member
He should just review games for DF, put a tech slant to it as is expected. Done.
anothertech
Member
Agreed 100%
It is entirely possible the rpg mechanics and quest design will be ass as well. Only time will tell
Craig of War
Banned
There are video of the rpg mechanics & it is not ass & going by past BGS game quest will also not be ass
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anothertech
Member
I think it's fair to say we'll have to wait and see. Going off first looks is pretty subjective.
Craig of War
Banned
Elysion
Banned
Ah, what could’ve been… Too bad Starfield won’t have scenes like that. It seems to be closer to Mass Effect when it comes to planetary exploration.
Should Star Citizen (or at least its single player portion) ever get a proper release, it probably won’t be surpassed for a long, long time, at least when it comes to scale. The only thing Starfield (and Bethesda games in general) probably does better is object persistence – the ability to pick up any object you find and be able to interact with it in a physically realistic way. If Star Citizen had that, it could be pretty much my perfect game (unless it does? I’ve never played it myself).
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Connxtion
Member
So no planet to planet traversal. Pity as I was hoping it would be like NMS, but more realistic looking.
I just hope we can fly about on the planets, because if you can only land (anywhere am speculating by what was said) then that’s crap. We meant to run about for miles? or is the worlds going to be broken up into sections like Skyrim sized maps.
Just not enough info on how ships work and how the main premise of the game works. (Exploring space and planets)
I just hope we can fly about on the planets, because if you can only land (anywhere am speculating by what was said) then that’s crap. We meant to run about for miles? or is the worlds going to be broken up into sections like Skyrim sized maps.
Just not enough info on how ships work and how the main premise of the game works. (Exploring space and planets)
anothertech
Member
Snake29
RSI Employee of the Year
SC does this already and goes even further. It's one of the key points of SC that everything is physical in the universe. In the next update they will add:
You might want to watch this (timestamped but it's interesting to see the whole video as well):
So you want to make a point with a funny video with bugs? Let's start do that with all kinds of open world games....
Hell, people already found things in the Starfield video that was funny.
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GigaBowser
The bear of bad news
Spaceman292
Banned
I'll bet my house that it's targeting 30
yamaci17
Member
no Starfield will target 60 fps on nextgen systems
these consoles are equipped with 3.6 ghz 8/16 zen 2 cores. they can handle the 60. 5 times more single thread power than previous gen consoles, 8 times more multihread perf.
if.. they happen to be not able to target 60 fps on nextgen xbox systems, it will be a huge bummer. it would be a PR disaster, considering its a "xbox console exclusive" title. no one would have any incentive to play on an xbox console when you can play at 60+ FPS on PC platform. it HAS TO target 60 fps on xbox consoles if it is going to be the "console seller game" for xbox brand.
imagine god of war releasing on ps4 at 1080p 30 FPS and at the same time on PC where you can get 1080p 60 FPS with a midrange GTX 1060 build. It would be undeniable that even most console users would just build a PC to enjoy those games at higher fidelity, higher framerates.
by the time comes, even low end ryzen 3600/rtx 2060 rigs can target 30 fps with starfield. nope. it has to be 60 or bust.
these consoles are equipped with 3.6 ghz 8/16 zen 2 cores. they can handle the 60. 5 times more single thread power than previous gen consoles, 8 times more multihread perf.
if.. they happen to be not able to target 60 fps on nextgen xbox systems, it will be a huge bummer. it would be a PR disaster, considering its a "xbox console exclusive" title. no one would have any incentive to play on an xbox console when you can play at 60+ FPS on PC platform. it HAS TO target 60 fps on xbox consoles if it is going to be the "console seller game" for xbox brand.
imagine god of war releasing on ps4 at 1080p 30 FPS and at the same time on PC where you can get 1080p 60 FPS with a midrange GTX 1060 build. It would be undeniable that even most console users would just build a PC to enjoy those games at higher fidelity, higher framerates.
by the time comes, even low end ryzen 3600/rtx 2060 rigs can target 30 fps with starfield. nope. it has to be 60 or bust.
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MightySquirrel
Banned
Here's how the most simplistic run of the mill single player game looks like in a finished state:
... and you're surprised that there are bugs in an MMO that's still in an alpha state?
darrylgorn
Member
Don't expect many open world type games to hit 60fps above 1080p unless they have something similar to DLSS involved.
I like the direction they've made on flight landings and space travel. This isn't really a space sim, so cutting those bits out actually makes for a less grueling experience.
I like the direction they've made on flight landings and space travel. This isn't really a space sim, so cutting those bits out actually makes for a less grueling experience.
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Sygma
Member
yes there are. Forbidden west, cyberpunk, RDR 2, Original Sin 2, Baldur's Gate 3 are all trashing this. There are no more excuses for Bethesda, they've been laughable since Oblivion
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Kssio_Aug
Member
Original Sin 2 and Baldurs Gate 3, not only better but "trash this"?
As some used to say... haters gonna hate. So your loss, not mine.
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Sygma
Member
Original Sin 2 and Baldurs Gate 3, not only better but "trash this"?
Don't see how they don't
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
Original Sin 2 has facial animations?
pasterpl
Member
This must be fake. People on neogaf told me that Sony games are so polished that they are virtually bug free.
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A No Man’s Sky twin isn’t the worst thing in the world, either. Seeing that mining laser in the trailer was rough, but Bethesda probably pulls off better basebuilding, shipbuilding should be good, plot and quests will be 10x more fleshed out, combat will be better, space combat, maybe.
It’s just tough when they’ve chosen such a spare aesthetic. Empty worlds, no aliens, there are fewer tropes you can draw on. Are there going to be 100 planets where an explorer crashed and sent out a distress signal, a handful of “outposts” per planet? Skyrim content spread across 1,000 locations is dicey.. hope they’ve got creative ideas they didn’t show..
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