Support NeoGAF

[Heisenberg007]

I don’t think using the word woke equates to racism though

I asked another guy in another thread what he meant by Spider-Man 2 is woke. His example included "Peter stuttering in front of Miles, while Miles is confident because he is black?"

The complete cuckification of Peter Parker making him stutter like a fucking moron when he's basically addressing his 'Robin' and Miles basically acting like the confident adult because "B"lack > white?

If that's not blatant needless racism on a gaming forum, I don't know what is.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

Wrong. Even if you bee-line the story, it takes more than 15 hours. Main + side quests (not activities) take 21 hours.

Even if MJ sections take 1 hour, the issue is with 4.76% to 6.67% of the game's story missions.

People want to complain that 5% of the game is not what they wanted, while 95% of the game is perfectly in line with what they wanted?

It might be 7% but the problem is that MJ sections are perfectly placed throughout the story to kill all momentum. It truly is a masterclass in pace killing. One of the many achievements of Spider-Man 2.

 

[arkhamguy123]

That the majority of folks don't dislike these segments or the game because of it. People who dislike them, while they are entitled to dislike them, are in the minority.

That’s a pretty terrible argument. Over looking the fact that it’s the kind of content made to pander to modern game “journalist” that’s not at all what that data point means

For example, do you understand how silly I’d look saying “red dead redemption has a 95 meta so clearly everyone loved the cattle herding parts”

 

[Heisenberg007]

Its not I looked at not one by 2 YouTube full playthroughs and counted out the sections.

It’s curious you crop the screenshot instead of linking the website. I suspect it’s credibility is dubious

lol I cropped the screenshot so you can see the numbers. Everybody knows that is howlongtobeat.com.

Here is the link. https://howlongtobeat.com/game/79769

What you saw on YouTube doesn't matter when we have actual data from a wider sample.

Also, why did you watch on YouTube? Have you not played the game yourself?

 

[arkhamguy123]

lol I cropped the screenshot so you can see the numbers. Everybody knows that is howlongtobeat.com.

Here is the link. https://howlongtobeat.com/game/79769

What you saw on YouTube doesn't matter when we have actual data from a wider sample.

Also, why did you watch on YouTube? Have you not played the game yourself?

There’s literally no verification. It’s user submitted. It’s a glorified honor system. Not the best fodder to use for your argument when anyone could just guess or estimate and put it up

 

[DForce]

No. Woke trash will be called out, sorry we offend ps only players.

People are looking for things to call "woke" these days.

Nothing different than people on REEE looking to be offended by everything in a game.

 

[X-Wing]

There’s literally no verification. It’s user submitted. It’s a glorified honor system. Not the best fodder to use for your argument when anyone could just guess or estimate and put it up

HLTB is an old and reputable website, but not trustworthy? But your trust me bro YouTube metric somehow is?

People are looking for things to call "woke" these days.
Nothing different than people on REEE looking to be offended by everything in a game.

I guess we should realize how good Spider-Man 2 is when the biggest issue people have with it is it being "woke".

 

[arkhamguy123]

HLTB is an old and reputable website, but not trustworthy? But your trust me bro YouTube metric somehow is?

I just explained how their data collection could be faulty and inflate game completion times and you come with ad hominem because you have no rebuttal and are arguing strictly from emotion because you happen to agree with the other poster here

 

[GymWolf]

Not something cartoony bro

Dude

Resistance

 

[MidGenRefresh]

Dude

Resistance

He said something good.

 

[GymWolf]

He said something good.

I just wanted to be part of the dude brigade

 

[Heisenberg007]

There’s literally no verification. It’s user submitted. It’s a glorified honor system. Not the best fodder to use for your argument when anyone could just guess or estimate and put it up

It's literally data of how much time it took hundreds of users to complete a game. Howlongtobeat.com is used industry wide to measure the length of games.

It's wayyyyy more credible than you saying the game is 10-11 hours long because you watched "not one but 2 YouTubers."

Also, you didn't answer my question. Why were you watching YouTube playthroughs? Have you not played the game yourself?

 

[arkhamguy123]

It's literally data of how much time it took hundreds of users to complete a game. Howlongtobeat.com is used industry wide to measure the length of games.

It's wayyyyy more credible than you saying the game is 10-11 hours long because you watched "not one but 2 YouTubers."

Also, you didn't answer my question. Why were you watching YouTube playthroughs? Have you not played the game yourself?

Lol dude. It’s user submitted and there’s no validation. Do you understand how faulty that can be? Everything is inflated. For example it has uncharted 2 and Arkham city at like 11 and a half and 13 and a half. Hyper inflated

Please explain how a bunch of random anonymous unchecked user submissions are more credible than watching a Motherfucker play a game in real time beginning to end no tricks right in front of your face

 

[PeteBull]

People are looking for things to call "woke" these days.

Nothing different than people on REEE looking to be offended by everything in a game.

Even devs knew full well what they were doing, bro, they removed all the woke shit in saudi arabia game copies, no lbgt flag, in homecoming mission its not 2 gays but just 2 male friends ;P

 

[Heisenberg007]

Lol dude. It’s user submitted and there’s no validation. Do you understand how faulty that can be? Everything is inflated. For example it has uncharted 2 and Arkham city at like 11 and a half and 13 and a half. Hyper inflated

Please explain how a bunch of random anonymous unchecked user submissions are more credible than watching a Motherfucker play a game in real time beginning to end no tricks right in front of your face

I'll get back to it. But first let's address the question I've now asked twice and you've ignored twice.

Why were you watching YouTube playthroughs? Have you bought and played the game yourself? If yes, let's add each other on PSN.

 

[DForce]

Even devs knew full well what they were doing, bro, they removed all the woke shit in saudi arabia game copies, no lbgt flag, in homecoming mission its not 2 gays but just 2 male friends ;P

Mary Jane refusing to move in with Peter so she could focus on her career (which she stated was too far from her job) isn't "woke." Neither is anything with the MJ stealth missions in the game.

That's nitpicking and looking for things there not even there. Just grown men crying over nothing.

 

[FeralEcho]

Yes,I'm bawling....

Whatsoever will I do not being a pathetic fanboy like you who deflects any negativity or criticism around his favourite shit.

Maybe next time try to take a step back,take off your fanboy glasses and understand that just because something is good it doesn't mean it should be excused from any criticism.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Yes,I'm bawling....

Whatsoever will I do not being a pathetic fanboy like you who deflects any negativity or criticism around his favourite shit.

Maybe next time try to take a step back,take off your fanboy glasses and understand that just because something is good it doesn't mean it should be excused from any criticism.

As I said above, criticize all you want about MJ segments. The truth is that the overwhelming majority of people do not care about this as they like the game. The scores I shared are evidence of that.

Having said that, people are entitled to criticize the subjective things they don't personally like.

My main beef is with the racists folks who have been littering every thread with awful things - including this one that is supposed to be primarily about criticizing the MJ gameplay segments.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Dude

Resistance

Third person bro

 

[rofif]

Oh fuck off. There are already like 17 different spider mans. I don’t need 50yo suburban woke housewife pov.

 

[FeralEcho]

As I said above, criticize all you want about MJ segments. The truth is that the overwhelming majority of people do not care about this as they like the game. The scores I shared are evidence of that.

Maybe...but high scores aren't proof of anything in an age where the majority of the population is retarded.Hell we have garbage like The Last Jedi with high scores which basically broke the entire Star Wars franchise.Not saying Spidey 2 doesn't deserve its high scores or anything as I personally love the game but I do find it to be very flawed in some aspects.There is an overabundance of woke elements in the game which are very on the nose and immersion breaking and it's the same to what has ruined the MCU for the past 3 years or so.Woke shit CAN be done when it's subtle but they clearly have no idea how to do that with 3rd rate writters that are plaguing the movie and gaming industries and just push it in your face as if the audience is too stupid to understand subtle nuances just because they are.

When I'm criticising Spidey 2 it's not to say it's a garbage game, it's clearly stellar and high quality but the abundance of woke elements at every turn being ramped up with each new entry since 2018 is making me very concerned for Wolverine for example.

 

[GymWolf]

Third person bro

Resistance retribution on psp

bromigo.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Resistance retribution on psp

bromigo.

Ok you got me

 

[Skifi28]

He said something good.

I didn't really like the previous games, but Resistance 3 was quite good.

 

[Ronin_7]

MJ is overpowered and i loved every single mission.

More in the sequel please

 

[Garibaldi]

Meh, they are no worse than web line over here and perch takeout all the idiot enemies before getting incredibly bored and just fighting the remaining 800 hunters, that occurs in the hunter bases. The stealth is shite in its entirety. The rest of the game is decent though.

 

[shaddam]

I hated the MJ sections in the first game. Here I didnt have problem, as I didnt have to stealth and the gun was op. Black cat would have been better

 

[Astray]

MJ literally dies in like 2 straight shots how is she overpowered lmfao?

I swear some people clearly never played the game.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

I mean MJ is an integral part of Spider-Man, at least that's what comic fans have been screaming since One More Day.

Its not really any different than the Catwoman sections in Arkham City thematically.

Okay I'm NOT a comic book guy but AFAIK cat woman is a master thief while Mary Jane is an average woman with no combat training?

 

[Rheon]

It's not even the fact that they're stealth, it's the fact I'm meant to believe MJ of all people is capable of taking down several enemies almost twice her size with little to no effort.

The same enemies that Peter and Miles have trouble taking down even with their superpowered abilities.

I mean I get it, video games, suspension of disbelief, yada yada yada but sheesh...

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

Just grown men crying over nothing.

Yep.
Pretty much can immediately disregard anyone complaining about something being "woke".

 

[X-Wing]

It's not even the fact that they're stealth, it's the fact I'm meant to believe MJ of all people is capable of taking down several enemies almost twice her size with little to no effort.

The same enemies that Peter and Miles have trouble taking down even with their superpowered abilities.

I mean I get it, video games, suspension of disbelief, yada yada yada but sheesh...

Those enemies are a one hit takedown if you strike them from stealth positions with both Miles and Peter.

 

[Silver Wattle]

so is SM2 the latest game people aren't allowed to criticize?

 

[Topher]

Those enemies are a one hit takedown if you strike them from stealth positions with both Miles and Peter.

Yeah.....using their super powers. MJ has a stun gun. And later that stun gun can actually shoot and she can take out symbiotes running at her with one shot.

so is SM2 the latest game people aren't allowed to criticize?

What are you talking about? The game has been criticized plenty.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

lol I cropped the screenshot so you can see the numbers. Everybody knows that is howlongtobeat.com.

Here is the link. https://howlongtobeat.com/game/79769

What you saw on YouTube doesn't matter when we have actual data from a wider sample.

Also, why did you watch on YouTube? Have you not played the game yourself?

That's a pretty lame amount of game content when you consider the previous game released 5 years ago and they repainted over so many assets from it.

It explains how Insomniac churns out so many games this gen, by keeping them short, such as Ratchet and Clank too.

 

[Heisenberg007]

That's a pretty lame amount of game content when you consider the previous game released 5 years ago and they repainted over so many assets from it.

Quality over quantity.

Personally, I'm very happy with the size and quality and would welcome more games like this. The quality and production value are unmatched, and the game doesn't overstay its welcome either as it isn't bloated like AC Valhalla and some other recent games.

 

[Topher]

There’s literally no verification. It’s user submitted. It’s a glorified honor system. Not the best fodder to use for your argument when anyone could just guess or estimate and put it up

It's dead on accurate for me. I got the platinum in 26 hours.

That's a pretty lame amount of game content when you consider the previous game released 5 years ago and they repainted over so many assets from it.

The game has just the right amount of content, imo. They could have easily added some more bloat to pad out the hours, but that would just lessened the experience, imo.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

Quality over quantity.

Personally, I'm very happy with the size and quality and would welcome more games like this. The quality and production value are unmatched, and the game doesn't overstay its welcome either as it isn't bloated like AC Valhalla and some other recent games.

I agree that quality is of course more important, but if a game doesn't have enough quantity to to last more than a week then there's no chance I'd pay full price for it. I know a few friends who are happy to wait for SM2 to come down to about $30-40 before they'll consider buying it because its so short. That seems like a fairer price considering there are some much longer games releasing now that provide a high amount of quality whilst having more content.

 

[drotahorror]

They were included for woke points in that sweet, sweet Metacritic score.

Did you get woke points when you shilled for Epic? How many?

 

[MidGenRefresh]

Did you get woke points when you shilled for Epic? How many?

This is the dumbest attempt at a roast I’ve seen on this forum, congrats.

 

[hyperbertha]

Yep.
Pretty much can immediately disregard anyone complaining about something being "woke".

Let's put aside sm2 for a bit. nothing has ever been woke in history?

 

[Heisenberg007]

I agree that quality is of course more important, but if a game doesn't have enough quantity to to last more than a week then there's no chance I'd pay full price for it. I know a few friends who are happy to wait for SM2 to come down to about $30-40 before they'll consider buying it because its so short. That seems like a fairer price considering there are some much longer games releasing now that provide a high amount of quality whilst having more content.

I think games of this nature that have this level of quality but 3x more content are very few and far between. I think the last time a game like that was released was Red Dead Redemption 2, and that was a generational anomaly. HFW is also a good contender.

But other games that have 60+ hours of content often lack this level of quality, e.g., CP 2077 (at launch when the game was at full price), AC Valhalla, Starfield, Elex 2, etc.

 

[drotahorror]

This is the dumbest attempt at a roast I’ve seen on this forum, congrats.

You hella mad, keep suckin that teet.

 

[X-Wing]

Okay I'm NOT a comic book guy but AFAIK cat woman is a master thief while Mary Jane is an average woman with no combat training?

Depends, there is even a series of comics called The Amazing Mary Jane in which she kicks a lot of ass.
In one universe she was even trained by Captain America in hand to hand combat.

Mary Jane Watson (Earth-616)

1166 appearance(s) of Mary Jane Watson (Earth-616) 12 appearance(s) in handbook(s) of Mary Jane Watson (Earth-616) 141 minor appearance(s) of Mary Jane Watson (Earth-616) 246 mention(s) of Mary Jane Watson (Earth-616) 9 mention(s) in handbook(s) of Mary Jane Watson (Earth-616) 776 image(s) of...

marvel.fandom.com

So, yeah. Mary Jane being strong and being able to hold her own in combat isn't really new.

 

[Topher]

Criticizing a game for its political content is completely valid, imo. Typically I don't let it ruin the experience for me. In this case, I rolled my eyes quite a bit but I was never at a point where the politics was so overbearing that I felt like quiting. Thankfully most of it is in the side content and so completely optional. So I had choose to push through all of it if I wanted to 100% the game. Do I wish that stuff wasn't there though? Absolutely. And I don't think there is anything wrong with stating that, but at the same time I think folks need to acknowledge the fact that the game wasn't defined by these political views. I didn't really see the MJ missions as political, just needless. And it doesn't make sense. Peter Parker already lost his aunt and uncle to all this madness but is willing to put his girlfriend in harms way? Nah....doesn't jive, but whatever.

As I said in the OT, the game's positives BY FAR outweigh the negatives. That epic main campaign earned its lofty critical scores all by itself in my eyes.

 

[Rheon]

Depends, there is even a series of comics called The Amazing Mary Jane in which she kicks a lot of ass.
In one universe she was even trained by Captain America in hand to hand combat.

Mary Jane Watson (Earth-616)

1166 appearance(s) of Mary Jane Watson (Earth-616) 12 appearance(s) in handbook(s) of Mary Jane Watson (Earth-616) 141 minor appearance(s) of Mary Jane Watson (Earth-616) 246 mention(s) of Mary Jane Watson (Earth-616) 9 mention(s) in handbook(s) of Mary Jane Watson (Earth-616) 776 image(s) of...

marvel.fandom.com

So, yeah. Mary Jane being strong and being able to hold her own in combat isn't really new.

OK, but has there ever been any indication that MJ in Insomniac's universe has ever undergone any kind of combat training?

 

[Topher]

OK, but has there ever been any indication that MJ in Insomniac's universe has ever undergone any kind of combat training?

No, none of that stuff applies to Insomniac's Spider-man at all.

Correction. MJ received training in Symkaria.

 

[X-Wing]

OK, but has there ever been any indication that MJ in Insomniac's universe has ever undergone any kind of combat training?

Not every detail is spoon fed in the game but Mary Jane was in Symkaria where she met Silver Sable (they become friends there as per the Earth-1048 version of Mary Jane), wouldn't be unthinkable that she would have learned self defense there.

 

[Strategize]

It's not even the fact that they're stealth, it's the fact I'm meant to believe MJ of all people is capable of taking down several enemies almost twice her size with little to no effort.

The same enemies that Peter and Miles have trouble taking down even with their superpowered abilities.

I mean I get it, video games, suspension of disbelief, yada yada yada but sheesh...

This take doesn't make any sense since she's not punching them, choking them or anything like that, she's using a stungun + web shooter, therefore her size isn't relevent. Also Peter and Miles do not have any trouble taking these guys down in this situation, Spider-man one shots these enemies while in stealth with a single web strike, quicker than MJ's animation.

 

[sendit]

I mean, even ignoring this baffling statement, why is he talking like this? You won't see Japanese devs pulling this in interviews. Maybe phrase it more professionally?

You can’t handle a bit of profanity?