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[Ozzie666]

The biggest issue the regulators raised is with the cloud, console sales aren't much of factor anyways.

I don't buy this is sales drop is for the ABK deal.

Maybe, but the more Sony appears to be dominating, it can't hurt Microsoft's image of being a helpless victim or distance second place. The market preception.

I find it hard to believe Microsoft is that stupid or snake bitten to have supply issues and keep on mismanaging their studios. It's drama after drama, I have to wonder how much of it is real or cluelessness.

Now of course, maybe they will announce a new piece of hardware either a cloud device, pro version or slim that makes all this go away.

 

[Ar¢tos]

A quick search gave some interesting results imo. It does seem like there’s something weird going on with the X. The sales aren’t crazy high, but its still out of stock in most places. I think they’ve slowed production and are putting most of the consoles into this June Diablo bundle. It is coming shortly before their summer showcase which I think they will announce a new model of X and Maybe S for Fall release.

But you think we’d see leaks of a new model.

Maybe they discontinue the S and do a streaming Xbox and a new more powerful single sku Xbox.

That would be extremely dumb because Series S and X still need to be supported. Adding a third more powerful sku would only piss off developers and it would be pointless, since series X is already more powerful than the PS5 and isn't selling as well. Making a new more powerful (and more expensive, more power = higher price) wouldn't fix that.

 

[PropellerEar]

series X is already more powerful than the PS5

 

[jm89]

I find it hard to believe Microsoft is that stupid or snake bitten to have supply issues and keep on mismanaging their studios.

Quite frankly artificially introducing supply issues that will damage your business is more stupid.

 

[Daneel Elijah]

Quite frankly artificially introducing supply issues that will damage your business is more stupid.

pick you poison:
Xbox is incompetent
They have been snobed by AMD/ TSMC
They are snobing Xbox consumers by working in new ones( xcloud, streaming box...)
Or... they are stuck with weak demand and act accordingly, while still planning for better days( slim model/pro version, wait for the ABK deal to pass)
Phil talked about the supply issues a few months ago now. I suppose that they will talk about it again at their conference, or at least close to it.

 

[Three]

Bundling a game pass game from 2021 even with its premium DLC is odd.

Only because they didn't have anything from 2022 to bundle it with. I think come this holiday they will maybe bundle starfield and go for some kind of relaunch that does good numbers. Maybe with unlikely but possible new hardware too.

 

[Poltz]

Only because they didn't have anything from 2022 to bundle it with. I think come this holiday they will maybe bundle starfield and go for some kind of relaunch that does good numbers. Maybe with unlikely but possible new hardware too.

They have a Diablo 4 bundle so could have done a 3rd party game.

 

[jm89]

pick you poison:
Xbox is incompetent
They have been snobed by AMD/ TSMC
They are snobing Xbox consumers by working in new ones( xcloud, streaming box...)
Or... they are stuck with weak demand and act accordingly, while still planning for better days( slim model/pro version, wait for the ABK deal to pass)
Phil talked about the supply issues a few months ago now. I suppose that they will talk about it again at their conference, or at least close to it.

I think most of those are reasonable reasons. Just don't believe them reducing supply for ABK deal to go through.

 

[Mahavastu]

That would be extremely dumb because Series S and X still need to be supported. Adding a third more powerful sku would only piss off developers and it would be pointless, since series X is already more powerful than the PS5 and isn't selling as well. Making a new more powerful (and more expensive, more power = higher price) wouldn't fix that.

If Sony makes a Pro console with like double the performance, Xbox has to do something similar. Otherwise they would look outdated. Even if the Pro consoles did not sell that spectacular last gen, there is still a sizeable market for it.
Keeping the Series S would make sense, because they could sell it for extremly low price. I guess after the shrinkings they should be able to reach $150-$200 which is "impulse buy" territory for many, especially if XBox would throw maybe a few months of Gamepass to it? And once the people are in the eco system, maybe they stay?

 

[Ar¢tos]

If Sony makes a Pro console with like double the performance, Xbox has to do something similar. Otherwise they would look outdated. Even if the Pro consoles did not sell that spectacular last gen, there is still a sizeable market for it.
Keeping the Series S would make sense, because they could sell it for extremly low price. I guess after the shrinkings they should be able to reach $150-$200 which is "impulse buy" territory for many, especially if XBox would throw maybe a few months of Gamepass to it? And once the people are in the eco system, maybe they stay?

3 SKUs mean having to debug, test, and optimize the whole game 3 times. It's a massive undertaking for devs, specially small devs. If they don't allow devs to skip series S when the "pro" comes out, eventually even more devs will stop making xbox versions of their games. It's already not profitable for some devs, it will only get worse.

 

[DenchDeckard]

I think it has been proven that they are more or less in line with each other. Which is a great thing.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Maybe, but the more Sony appears to be dominating, it can't hurt Microsoft's image of being a helpless victim or distance second place. The market preception.

I find it hard to believe Microsoft is that stupid or snake bitten to have supply issues and keep on mismanaging their studios. It's drama after drama, I have to wonder how much of it is real or cluelessness.

Now of course, maybe they will announce a new piece of hardware either a cloud device, pro version or slim that makes all this go away.

It’s a very complex answer that relies on a conspiracy without precedent.

The truth sounds a lot more simple doesn’t it? There’s no point flooding the market with HW when there’s no demand. Forza bundle is available everywhere all the time, Series S too. There are no supply issues.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

We still on this?

Maybe it's as simple as demand dictating supply? You know, basic economics? I think we are far removed from the whole chip shortages thing, if sony could secure fab volume, so could MS, At the end of the day it's just money. That MS isn't doing that, simply means they can see the demand isn't there to warrant increasing supply.

 

[NeonGhost]

Seeing as they have a bundle edition coming in June this is the most likely reason you don’t see any availability

 

[Mahavastu]

3 SKUs mean having to debug, test, and optimize the whole game 3 times. It's a massive undertaking for devs, specially small devs. If they don't allow devs to skip series S when the "pro" comes out, eventually even more devs will stop making xbox versions of their games. It's already not profitable for some devs, it will only get worse.

Microsoft has to enforce the support of all 3 SKUs then, otherwise they risk their full eco system. The Series S buyers would feel cheated if not every game works acceptable.
Yes, it will make things more difficult for devs, but I guess it will be easier to additionally support a faster plattform than supporting the crippled Series S, so the hardest part is already done anyway.
Things like dynamic resolution should also make it easier to support faster / slower devices, it will just display in different resolution.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

Microsoft has to enforce the support of all 3 SKUs then, otherwise they risk their full eco system. The Series S buyers would feel cheated if not every game works acceptable.
Yes, it will make things more difficult for devs, but I guess it will be easier to additionally support a faster plattform than supporting the crippled Series S, so the hardest part is already done anyway.
Things like dynamic resolution should also make it easier to support faster / slower devices, it will just display in different resolution.

All that would do is lead to a situation worse than it ready is. We are already seeing a lot of XS games underperforming vs the PS5 and that is primarily because of an optimization issue. Peope seem to forget that with PS5 devs are making just one version of their game vs making two on the XS consoles. That means you either need more dev hands on the XS version, or you are using the same number of devs but spending less time on each xbox SKU.

And I think by now its safe to say that whole easy cross-compatibility with XSS and XSX is a lie, at the start of the gen MS made it seem like it would just be a rez toggle, but we are already seeing devs cut out entire features between the SKUs.

Adding a third SKU to that just makes all that worse. I would say what MS needs to be doing now is simplifying their dev workload and having just one SKU, but that's impossible because they started this gen with two SKUs.That XSS is a ball on a chain tied to Xbox for the rest of this gen.

 

[Duchess]

MS are just holding units back so that they can create Starfield bundles, as Sony did with H:FW and GOW:R.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

xCloud is at capacity and expanding, the blade servers running xCloud share the silicon with Series S/X. MS/Xbox are making a mobile/store/crossplay push if/when the ActiBliz deal is complete, there are more mobile/PC/device players out there than Xbox consoles.

Apparently cannot supply/manufacturer enough either.

 

[Bond007]

I can only speak for my area obviously(Central Florida) but I now see PS5s everywhere and i have maybe seen an XSX a handful of times at different retailers.
Atleast where i live you would have a harder time tracking one down currently.

I also already own XSX, PS5 - so it's not like I am actively on top of stock levels.

 

[Captain Toad]

X is already more powerful than the PS5

Based on what, terraflops? Because it hasn't turned out that way with actual results.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Maybe Microsoft have held back units for a couple of quarters while the ABK acquisition goes through....Or maybe they are desperately working ona redesign to yield more units for cheaper....who know.

 

[Ar¢tos]

Based on what, terraflops? Because it hasn't turned out that way with actual results.

I'm talking about paper specs.

 

[JCK75]

I've seen the same, I got an Xbox Series X at launch by getting in timely on the preorder but I've never seen them on store shelves since.. I managed to get a PS5 fairly easily this christmas and since then I've seen PS5's in stock regurly (like when I went to costco 2 weeks ago they had about 30 of them). It seems like a production issue.. not sure what Sony did to get production and supply so healthy but MS needs to sort their shit out if they hope to compete.

 

[Thirty7ven]

xCloud is at capacity and expanding, the blade servers running xCloud share the silicon with Series S/X. MS/Xbox are making a mobile/store/crossplay push if/when the ActiBliz deal is complete, there are more mobile/PC/device players out there than Xbox consoles.

Apparently cannot supply/manufacturer enough either.

I love this theory too, one of the best ones. None of these dumb theories explain why there's stock available all the time yet sales aren't picking up, but close your eyes and dream.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

Maybe Microsoft have held back units for a couple of quarters while the ABK acquisition goes through....Or maybe they are desperately working ona redesign to yield more units for cheaper....who know.

So.... we are entertaining the possibility that even when being outsold by almost 3 to 1 on a monthly basis (globally), MS is actually holding back units ignoring the possibility to be increasing their install base at the most critical time of the console race?

Find that extremely unlikely.

 

[Horseganador]

Something is happening with the demand for the product, I would say, whoever wants the console can buy it without problems, although it is fun to read so many nonsensical excuses.

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

I see all the consoles stocked when I go places.

 

[lucbr]

Maybe depends on the region. I haven't seen any XSX in local stores yet. The XSS and the PS5 I see everywhere.

I can only find the Forza Bundle Online.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

I love this theory too, one of the best ones. None of these dumb theories explain why there's stock available all the time yet sales aren't picking up, but close your eyes and dream.

Consoles not selling is one thing, xCloud capacity and strategy is another. Release timings and ABK equate to a pretty measured series of actions by MS currently. But hey by all means we all know you'll simply shit on any moves by MS/Xbox regardless.

 

[Captain Toad]

I'm talking about paper specs.

But even that isn't cut and dry these days. There are so many factors. What ultimately matters is the end result.

And, so far, it seems about 50/50 which platform version runs better. And even then, most people would never be able to tell which is "better" without DF telling them, making any differences meaningless outside of Internet pissing matches.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Consoles not selling is one thing, xCloud capacity and strategy is another. Release timings and ABK equate to a pretty measured series of actions by MS currently. But hey by all means we all know you'll simply shit on any moves by MS/Xbox regardless.

The numbers just don’t match that’s all. Basically your argument boils down to MS pulling around 20 million people to play COD on Xcloud out of nowhere.

It’s a weak theory, one that Xbox fans podcasts are propagating because it’s the only one that doesn’t sound completely batshit insane even if it doesn’t sound plausible.

 

[demigod]

Consoles not selling is one thing, xCloud capacity and strategy is another. Release timings and ABK equate to a pretty measured series of actions by MS currently. But hey by all means we all know you'll simply shit on any moves by MS/Xbox regardless.

Bud, that excuse was already used in 2021 and they are already done with the server blades. Do you want to explain why the ABK deal isn’t selling out the forza bundles?

 

[SlimySnake]

We still on this?

Maybe it's as simple as demand dictating supply? You know, basic economics? I think we are far removed from the whole chip shortages thing, if sony could secure fab volume, so could MS, At the end of the day it's just money. That MS isn't doing that, simply means they can see the demand isn't there to warrant increasing supply.

MS said they are losing $200 on every series x. Just $100 on a series s. Its possible that they are simply not making these consoles in large numbers to reduce the losses taken and force a bigger series s adoption rate.

That said, i see xbox series x consoles everywhere i go. And have been seeing them since since summer 2022. Its possible the demand simply isnt there.

 

[jm89]

Consoles not selling is one thing, xCloud capacity and strategy is another. Release timings and ABK equate to a pretty measured series of actions by MS currently. But hey by all means we all know you'll simply shit on any moves by MS/Xbox regardless.

Do you have a source that series x on mass are still being used for xcloud over retail? We've been hearing that for 2 years now.

Considering we have alot of countries where stock is plenty and sales still dropping, i don't buy it.

 

[jroc74]

I was joking about the narrative switching from games with bundles don't count to now bundles as a whole don't count as stock.

Yet here we are.

What a time to be alive...

 

[MisterXDTV]

Yeah, I know what's going on with Series X stock....

It's not selling...

 

[FBeeEye]

This reeks of production being shifted to special edition consoles which is retarded considering that the supply issues are tenuous at best.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

The numbers just don’t match that’s all. Basically your argument boils down to MS pulling around 20 million people to play COD on Xcloud out of nowhere.

It’s a weak theory, one that Xbox fans podcasts are propagating because it’s the only one that doesn’t sound completely batshit insane even if it doesn’t sound plausible.

I never said anything apart from xCloud is continually hitting capacity, expanding with more servers and still having wait queues. Repeat.

Anything else is you putting words into my mouth.

 

[Viking Warrior]

6nm chip on the PS5 is cheaper to make and has 50% more chips on wafer than series X.
5nm chip on PS5 slim, much smaller chassis with no liquid metal and far less heat sink at a cheaper price, launching fall 2023.

 

[Daneel Elijah]

I never said anything apart from xCloud is continually hitting capacity, expanding with more servers and still having wait queues. Repeat.

Anything else is you putting words into my mouth.

If xcloud was so vital to Xbox they should have planned it from the start. The next gen consoles are out since 2020. The ABK purchase is on since early 2022, and probably in talks before that. Either they have planned for it since and xcloud servers needs are accounted for and the consoles production follow those plans, or they are still in doubt/ not upping production of consoles for X reasons.

Sorry if I am putting things in your mouth too. It is true that we can see things that aren't there.But Microsoft favoring Xcloud should not harm the consoles supply for more than a few months, unless they really are not interested in selling all the consoles they can. We are in the third year of this generation. It should be well under control.

 

[demigod]

6nm chip on the PS5 is cheaper to make and has 50% more chips on wafer than series X.
5nm chip on PS5 slim, much smaller chassis with no liquid metal and far less heat sink at a cheaper price, launching fall 2023.

WHO ARE YOU.

 

[jm89]

WHO ARE YOU.

 

[StealthGoblin]

We’ve seen a large increase in GamePass PC territories. I’d imagine a significant amount of hardware is finding itself in server blades.

 

[ZoukGalaxy]

5nm chip on PS5 slim, much smaller chassis with no liquid metal and far less heat sink

At this shrinking rate, will a heatsink even be left ?

 

[AeonGaidenRaiden]

Here in Vietnam we didnt have issues with stock for PS5 or XSX. Literally every game shop has 10+ systems at all times since 2022.

 

[GHG]

At this shrinking rate, will a heatsink even be left ?

Austin Evans is about to go crazy.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

MS said they are losing $200 on every series x. Just $100 on a series s. Its possible that they are simply not making these consoles in large numbers to reduce the losses taken and force a bigger series s adoption rate.

That said, i see xbox series x consoles everywhere i go. And have been seeing them since since summer 2022. Its possible the demand simply isnt there.

I find this hard to believe. Ok, so on their $300 console, they are losing $100? Which means that console has a BOM of around $400?

So what does that mean the BOM of a $400 PS5 digital is? WhieI have an idea, but if outgoing off what MS said, that and looking at specs, that should mean the PS5 digital has a BOM of almost $600.

Anyways, I just really believe that this all just comes down to demand.

 

[SlimySnake]

I find this hard to believe. Ok, so on their $300 console, they are losing $100? Which means that console has a BOM of around $400?

So what does that mean the BOM of a $400 PS5 digital is? WhieI have an idea, but if outgoing off what MS said, that and looking at specs, that should mean the PS5 digital has a BOM of almost $600.

Anyways, I just really believe that this all just comes down to demand.

Well, thats what they said. I dont recall where it came from. Probably from a CMA filing or the Epic lawsuit but they said $100-200 so im assuming the $200 is on the xsx.

I can definitely see them taking a huge loss. I recall talking to Panello about their cooling solution and he made it seem like their vapor chamber cooling solution was like $30. He was surprised that sony went with traditional cooling. They also have not one but two motherboards in the xsx. Their ram is faster and thus likely more expensive. Their chip is 20% larger and thus more expensive. $200 sounds a lot but sony's BOM was around $450 so they were losing at least $50 on the Digital PS5 that they pretty much refused to ship. They had broken even on the physical edition even by June of 2021 though.

Id say the XSX BOM was likely around $650 and they included the $50 retailer cut to come up with the $200 loss per unit number. I just think Sony smartly designed the PS5 while the XSX just threw the kitchen sink at the XSX. Panello told me that in the board meetings, their sandwich strategy of $299 and $499 consoles was conceived under the assumption Sony was targeting $399. That right there tells me everything that I need to know about the XSX R&D process and why they ended up with such a high BOM compared to the PS5.

 

[onQ123]

I find this hard to believe. Ok, so on their $300 console, they are losing $100? Which means that console has a BOM of around $400?

So what does that mean the BOM of a $400 PS5 digital is? WhieI have an idea, but if outgoing off what MS said, that and looking at specs, that should mean the PS5 digital has a BOM of almost $600.

Anyways, I just really believe that this all just comes down to demand.

PS5 is not the same as Series Consoles

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

I see Series Xs all over the place. My local Walmart had 5 or 6 sitting in case the other day. Prior to that, I had never seen a Series X in a store before until a few weeks ago. Also if they are restricting supply even more than normal, it's definitely to do with new bundles, not just "they don't want to make as many" or some such. That's just nonsense, to be candid.