Why would they devote resources to satiating a small portion of the community?
I love Melee to death, but it's just fuckin weird that people expect a company to perpetually support an old-ass, old-ass product.
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Smash Pro's Tournament Victory Speech Calls Out Nintendo
- Thread starter Makonero
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Why would they devote resources to satiating a small portion of the community?
I love Melee to death, but it's just fuckin weird that people expect a company to perpetually support an old-ass, old-ass product.
lvl99 Pixel
Member
Nintendo will tell him to give it a rest
Kind of sad that there will never be alternative to Melee though, and even Project M got kind of shafted
Yeah, also move on from playing Basketball to Rugby
Kind of sad that there will never be alternative to Melee though, and even Project M got kind of shafted
Yeah, also move on from playing Basketball to Rugby
I play Blazblue and SF4 quite frequently. I've played a bit of all those games except marvel. You could replace marvel in my statement for blazblue if you'd like but I left it in because marvel is more relevant to most people.
Diablohead
Member
With how well smash has carried itself do nintendo even need to step in? it would be nice if they did more official stuff but it's not required.
StriKeVillain
Banned
How attached are you to self hygiene?
Perhaps he means he wants it to me a much bigger eSport, with more money coming in and out, a bigger scene, bigger arenas?
Similar to how LoL and Dota are lifestyles for others. Its can be healthy, those 'athletes' are required to physically train in real life as well. Not just digitally.
haha
Blackquill
Member
Yeah sure
I cannot for the life of me figure out why people expect Nintendo to push Melee.
What do they have to gain from it? They don't sell Gamecubes, or copies of the game, or even GCN controllers anymore. Advertising to lots of viewers? Might as well advertise on LoL streams. Way more viewers, and just as much relevance with Nintendo's current products as Melee. Which is to say, basically none.
Hell, Nintendo doesn't even push Smash 4 anymore, and at least they still sell that game.
What do they have to gain from it? They don't sell Gamecubes, or copies of the game, or even GCN controllers anymore. Advertising to lots of viewers? Might as well advertise on LoL streams. Way more viewers, and just as much relevance with Nintendo's current products as Melee. Which is to say, basically none.
Hell, Nintendo doesn't even push Smash 4 anymore, and at least they still sell that game.
This.
Regardless of what you think of the quality, Melee and what Smash has become post-Brawl are entirely different games with distinct communities. The Melee community took it into their own hands to make Brawl into the sequel it should have been in the first place and Nintendo's response was to shut it down.
Hbox is right. It's absurd that they got Melee people to help them sell Smash 4 and still refuse to listen to the huge demand for an HD remaster.
Geno Breaker
Banned
I don't play any SF game outside of Third Strike but I really doubt any of the devs at Capcom deliberately tried to make the next Street Fighter a horrible competitive game.
Both armada and leffen played for a while so there is that.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
Close your hungrybox and sit down.
but plenty of people go from playing marvel to sf or vice versa. so what are you saying? that they're all one tricks or that they just don't like the new game?
Blackquill
Member
That's great because it isn't the case for the current Smash game
People making fun of the lifestyle argument, why? These pros make a living from doing this and it's a extreme passion for them. Doing what you love to do and making a career out of it is pretty much what everyone aspires to do so it's odd that some are critiquing it for being a lifestyle, which it very clearly is for these people.
And I know plenty of people that don't and I also know multiple people who play both smash 4 and melee. I'm saying that the difference in mechanics is about as different from melee to smash 4 as an anime fighting game to a more traditional one.
Yes. The differences between Melee and every other entry in the Smash series are like the differences between Basketball and Rugby. Why, asking a Melee player to play Smash 4 is like asking a baker to perform open heart surgery!
Because it's a lifestyle that doesn't even have Wario in it.
GCN controllers have a lifetime of 12-24 months if you play alot of smash, and they never stopped selling gc controllers, i bet a big % of the recent years sold gc controllers is due to smash (which can be seen as some support, which it's).
evil monkey
Member
There's very little to gain from catering to an audience that exclusively plays one Smash game and flat out refuses to adopt any of the newer ones. Although a Melee HD release may finally get us rid of all the CRT setups, so it may have some actual benefits.
lvl99 Pixel
Member
All of these big tournaments generally run both games, even smash 64 sometimes
the fact that you think im exaggerating is telling
People absolutely have not played or followed both games competitively if they think theyre similar
Damn some daggers of truth right there.
I expect it of nintendo considering they basically just walked away from the racing and fps genre when it was good for them. They care for nothing but what earns them money and even then they still suck on supporting those that support them.
Wolfgang Jr
Banned
Not a healthy one
freethoughtbubble
Member
Non-Smash players will never understand just how different high-level Melee is from high-level Brawl or Smash 4. I guess you can't blame people for assuming it's like other franchises--where the games can have drastic differences but still retain the same core fundamentals. It's kind of ridiculous when you stop and think about it.
I wish someone would grab footage of the players' hands during a Melee and Smash 4 grand finals match. You could probably tell which game was being played just by hearing the speed of the click-clacks.
I wish someone would grab footage of the players' hands during a Melee and Smash 4 grand finals match. You could probably tell which game was being played just by hearing the speed of the click-clacks.
Trust me. I know you don't think that's an exaggeration. I've had this discussion before. I've seen the bullet points.
I like both but come the fuck on.
The difference is more akin to Third Strike => SFV, where they take some things away and build on others.
SomeRandomWeirdGuy
Member
Because you don't need to at all? Melee was a huge success with casual and competitive players, and then Sakurai dumbed it down to shit with Brawl, and made a few amends with 4. Casuals don't give a shit if the skill ceiling is sky high, because they're going to get their shit pushed in no matter what. Casuals care about characters, stages, and modes. Content. The next smash game could easily be an update to the Melee philosophy without impacting it's casual fanbase in the slightest.
It's not some either or, because Melee already satisfied both damn fanbase in the first place.
And I literally only played melee for a week when I rented it in 2002 and played the shit out of Brawl. It doesn't take much to see that there's a world of difference between Melee and Brawl/4
Kayo Police
Member
Honestly what he said just made me cringe.
Nintendo barely acknowledges the Smash competitive community, in fact they've done more harm then good by trying to destroy Project M. Other game companies would kill to have a fanbase as loyal as the Smash fanbase. There are a lot of people in this thread who either hate esports or think Nintendo is always right, so they'll call him a whiner, but the general competitive Smash community agrees with what Hbox said.
We will have to agree to disagree.
Renegade Frost
Banned
Though I do not agree with the overall smash communities lack of acceptance for games not named Melee.....
I would like to point out that there are now scholarships you can get playing League of Legends. eSports has now gone full college scholarships and Nintendo should, in that same spirit, enable people to pursue their passions to their fullest extent. The world becomes a better place for it. I mean, that's why Nintendo exists right? To make the world a better place through creating products that put smiles on people's faces.
Nintendo's done a lot for the community in the last 5 or so years, but they could always do better. And they should.
This being my first post, I would like to say that I'm quite pleased to have been approved! Let us make niceties and salsa my compadres~
I would like to point out that there are now scholarships you can get playing League of Legends. eSports has now gone full college scholarships and Nintendo should, in that same spirit, enable people to pursue their passions to their fullest extent. The world becomes a better place for it. I mean, that's why Nintendo exists right? To make the world a better place through creating products that put smiles on people's faces.
Nintendo's done a lot for the community in the last 5 or so years, but they could always do better. And they should.
This being my first post, I would like to say that I'm quite pleased to have been approved! Let us make niceties and salsa my compadres~
The fact that people are saying this in pretty much THE generation of remasters is so funny to me. Melee on Switch is such easy money and it's hilarious that people don't see that.
How much did Ocarina of Time 3DS sell again? 4.52 million as of 2016. Wild.
Y'all realize the Melee community lugs around CRTs and Wii/GCs everywhere for every event right? It's already one of the biggest esports games out there (much bigger than Smash 4), and that's with the barrier of entry of a CRT, GC/Wii, and out of production Melee discs being there for new players. The convenience of a Switch remaster or port would already account for tons of sales.
edit - also capcom literally just released Street Fighter 2 on Switch which is literally all the Melee people are asking for a majority of the time
Geno Breaker
Banned
Sakurai generally still ignores the core fans. He throws them a bone every now and then because there were some broken characters and making the game faster paced than Brawl adds to the fun but for the most part he still tries to steer the series away from Melee. While I'm not trying to downplay the gameplay differences between the Street Fighter games, I'd still wager the differences in their depth isn't as drastic as the one from Melee to Brawl/Sm4sh.
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
These are the kinds of things that people that aren't familiar with the Melee community say.
Brawl and Smash 4 lowered the skill ceiling. They are less technical games (even "legitimate" tech that is 100% by design and not physics exploits) that give the player less options and less control. Sakurai said Melee is too hard, and his goal with the series is to minimize the effect of skill gaps as much as possible. This goes entirely against what people like about Melee, and as long as the series is developed with that kind of mindset the Melee scene will continue.
If Brawl had released as PM instead of what it actually was, Melee never would have had the resurgence it did. And PM actually has quite a few differences.
I don't find his lifestyle remark that odd, honestly. You practice playing this game all the time, are totally immersed in its community, and a lot of your relationships revolve around it. It's even a source of livelihood. And when you're one of many, a culture emerges from all this, which a lot of people partly define themselves against.
When something is infused with that much social meaning, it's hard to criticize it becoming a lifestyle for some. Although the foundation is just a video game, everything that surrounds it definitely checks a lot of the "self-actualization" boxes.
When something is infused with that much social meaning, it's hard to criticize it becoming a lifestyle for some. Although the foundation is just a video game, everything that surrounds it definitely checks a lot of the "self-actualization" boxes.
ZSaberLink
Media Create Maven
I feel like most people in this thread aren't really familiar with the Smash community... Both the Melee & Smash 4 tournament scenes are actually both alive and well now and work well with each other. People on both sides are friends with each other and some even play both games (mostly Mew2King). Project M is a whole different thing, but the ceasing of development was never clearly stated to be directly caused by Nintendo. It could've been indirect as well.
It's not one or the other though. Most tournaments have both Smash Melee & Smash 4 going on, and Nintendo has sponsored plenty of those tournaments. Nintendo have even helped get CRTs for tourneys, which were clearly only used for Melee and stuff. Nintendo is promoting and prioritizing Smash 4 with regards to these tournaments, but they aren't shunning Melee in any way. They've been much better about helping out the Smash community ever since the release of Smash 4.
The others pay attention, hang out with the Smash 4 players, and are involved in the community. They just don't play Smash 4 in any sort of competitive fashion anymore.
Um they supported it heavily for over a year though. Pretty much all of the balance patches were targeted towards the competitive community as well.
Atom Heart Mother
Banned
I mean yeah, its too slow and kinda boring to watch (to me). But I always say just stick with Melee, don't expect people to move onto a game that was purposely made to be slower.
WhateverItTakes
Banned
You're 34 and you're still living in our basement c'mon son you gotta move sometime, ain't feeding you down there.
How did they walk away from the racing genre when they've got one of the last few powerhouse racing franchises exclusive to them?
Renegade Frost
Banned
I've never been a player who's been able to compete at the heights of the genre, but as a fighter, I've always felt limited in every incarnation except the first.
My issue with smash has always been this sense of not being able to move as I would like. When executing I always feel my brain is moving faster than the controls possibly allow. You'd like to move and switch directions as you like, but you can not.
But that has nothing to do with the game speed and more to do with the ease of movement and canceling directions.
lvl99 Pixel
Member
ive played every smash since 64, and melee+smash4 in tournaments.
Seen the competitive scene grow from nothing to what we have now from the very start.
What are you basing youre opinion on, because if you think theyre comparable games then the ignorance kind of stands out.
Hes an engineer actually. Quit his job because hes passionate for Melee, but sure, call people like this a loser if that makes you feel big.
Hes a very emotional player, and the speech was literally right after he won a stacked major tournament so this isnt a premeditated speech.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
Even if this were true, the fuck does it have to do with the topic?
Dark_3nergy
Member
This is because Nintendo does not care about the serious scene of smash. Debiedma knows about this, everyone who participates in Smash high end meta knows the publisher and developer push them all aside. Serious Smash players are not the target audience for the product. Casuals are, if the lack of support is problematic, then move onto another game. Smash came out a long time ago back on the 64, even Melee had no support, what makes them think this trend is changing? It is not, the core concept of the game is to be a party game and that is it. You cannot try to make a turd look like a palace, it will still be a turd no matter how much you try to 'break it'.
It is a shame there could be something deeply competitive with smash added in, but for now as long as the current developers and publisher have their way, and they will because Smash as is sells, Smash meta will remain stagnant without support because the publisher believes it should only be played one way.
Holy Order Sol
Member
fuck e-sports
especially where the Smash scene is concerned since they seem to never be satisfied with anything, always trying to blow up bigger at all costs
I don't take issue with calling it a lifestyle, just don't ask for shit
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