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[Sethbacca]

Incorrect. See that Ricky Gervais video as an example.

Or see how quickly the band will 'cancel' anyone who says something they do not like. eg JK Rowling, Dave Chappelle.

So you're doubling down on the strawman fallacy and introducing a helping of bandwagon fallacy. You do realize that just because you're in a core demographic that suffers from group think it doesn't mean that the rest of us do the same. Thanks for misrepresenting my position by bringing other people that have nothing to do with me into the conversation. Do you boo boo, i'm done with this thread.

 

[OZ9000]

There you go. It's not a life threatening disease. If they are mentally unprepared, because they do not feel well with their own body and can't handle it, the more reasons why they should not be allowed these changes, yet. All teenagers go through millions of emotions and insecurities up and until at least 24 years old.

It stems from a mindset where people are not prepared to face and tackle problems. The new generation is mentally brittle. Ask yourself why there are record cases of depression in people who have a relatively comfortable life?

In any case, there is no physiological drive which induces gender dysphoria. It its wholly a mental illness, but now it has become a fashionable one too. Worse yet, there are people who encourage and facilitate this by planting the seeds in impressionable young minds.

 

[Jennings]

Man, 4 pages of people being mean to each other over an EA game of all things.

 

[OZ9000]

Totally agreed. We are constanly told "trans women are women" and "trans men are men". That's all fine and dandy, but why the need to distinquish themselves as trans then?

Trans people would like us to believe us our biological and secondary sex characteristics do not determine gender. If they do not, then what does? Hair, make up and high heels?

 

[F0rneus]

Man, 4 pages of people being mean to each other over an EA game of all things.

It's a great game, always in the top 10 sellers of the year and like I said the mod scene is thriving and quite crazy. Anyway I welcome this update.

 

[The Cockatrice]

The new generation is mentally brittle.

Bingo. People think, going easy and nice on everyone is the right way, but life is never easy. I had to cook my own shit and wear my apartment key around my neck when I was a kid. You are not born with thick skin, life experience makes you that way, for better or for worse. And if you still dont like it or you dont feel safe in your own body, then go ahead and try some mature changes with it when your a grown ass person, because these changes can have severe mental and physical ramifications if you are not prepared. No teenager will ever be prepared for such changes.

 

[Ghost of Caelid]

It does have an impact on my existence, especially when this is being pushed into the public sphere. I do not want my children to grow up in a world where it is acceptable to change your gender on a whim. It is problematic because it is not based on rational thought or science, but rather feelings.

My friend is a doctor and informed me how a child's parents pushed a referral to a gender identity clinic because their son claimed he was a girl after watching a few tiktok videos. Insanity.

As I said, gender has now become a fashionable item of clothing. First they claimed gender was a social construct. If that is the case, then why are you compelled to 'transition' to the 'opposite sex'?

A humorous take on the subject:

1. You can't cater public spaces to your liking ... If no one is being physically harmed public spaces are for everyone, not just those who fit your world view. Trying to cater public spaces to make you more comfortable is silly.

2. It could be because they see representation of themselves and feel more comfortable to come out, its not that tik tok is making one trans, but seeing another trans person being themselves make them feel more comfortable being their true selves.

3. Gender is still a social construct. We are social animals, so transition is a form of adapting your internal self to an external social representation of who you think you are.

I'm not mad at you for the pushback, most of modern history we've been following a pretty strict puritanical concept of gender so I'm not "how dare you" for someone who pushes back against something that always existed, but only recently in western contemporary culture has it now been more accepted, not completely.

 

[93xfan]

I think you’re tilting at windmills on something that’s near non existent. If it’s a fad as you’re all saying then it will pass and in 20 years people will look back on it and wonder what they were thinking. I think the bigger harm comes from having a not insignificant percentage of society tell these people that they shouldn’t be alive and that they’re going to burn in hell etc.

I feel nothing but sorrow for those I think those who have to go through that. I do think there’s something to be said of the enablers who hear of the terrible consequences and brush it off and choose to still stand in the way of those who are informing others- gaslighting and false equivalences.

For someone who appears to consume the media of the party that claims personal responsibility and less government, you sure don’t seem to want to allow people to take self responsibility and also want to enforce the government’s will on everyone. Maybe watch less Fox?

Don’t watch Fox News. Parents aren’t being informed of the horrible side effects and people are trying to censor it in the name of tolerance. I also believe the government should step in for other forms of child abuse.

Anyway this whole thing is nothing but a political discussion couched in game camo so I’m going to bow out of it before the mods nuke us.

 

[TheSHEEEP]

There you go. It's not a life threatening disease.

Mental illnesses can very much be life threatening, or seen by the one suffering from it as such (which can lead to the same outcome anyway).
We left that "if it's just in your head, it's not real" bullshit in the 50s.

You'd rather force others to let a kid suffer a few years more just so you can keep living in the past.
And you think other people do harm to children.
That's quite the head scratcher.

No teenager will ever be prepared for such changes.

It's fairly clear by now you wouldn't have been.
But you are now speaking for every other person on the planet.
Do you even realize the level of absurdity you are reaching?

 

[The Cockatrice]

Mental illnesses

Are you saying trans kids are mentally ill?

It's fairly clear by now you wouldn't have been.
But you are now speaking for every other person on the planet.
Do you even realize the level of absurdity you are reaching?

Only one absurd here is you being ok with kids going under the knife. Lmao.

 

[OZ9000]

1. You can't cater public spaces to your liking ... If no one is being physically harmed public spaces are for everyone, not just those who fit your world view. Trying to cater public spaces to make you more comfortable is silly.

2. It could be because they see representation of themselves and feel more comfortable to come out, its not that tik tok is making one trans, but seeing another trans person being themselves make them feel more comfortable being their true selves.

3. Gender is still a social construct. We are social animals, so transition is a form of adapting your internal self to an external social representation of who you think you are.

I'm not mad at you for the pushback, most of modern history we've been following a pretty strict puritanical concept of gender so I'm not "how dare you" for someone who pushes back against something that always existed, but only recently in western contemporary culture has it now been more accepted, not completely.

Gender is a byproduct of our biological processes. For example, the scientific definition of a woman is an adult who possesses the female reproductive tract, arising secondary to female sex hormones (eg estradiol).

Trans people would like us to believe us our biological and secondary sex characteristics do not determine gender. If they do not, then what does? Hair, make up and high heels?

 

[deriks]

I have scars in my feet and my hip from surgery, a cut and a burn in the arm... never cared about it. Don't think that someone will

 

[The Cockatrice]

Gender/body dysphoria is a mental illness (or mental "health condition" if you wanna use "nicer" words).
Nobody (to my knowledge) is saying anything else.

Some do say that there are other reasons to being trans, but that gets a big "press X for doubt" from me.

So, what, though?
Are you one of those backwater rejects who think that people who suffer from a mental illness are somehow lesser, only have themselves to blame or their condition isn't real?

And your solution to a mental illness is to let them fall into its vices and pressure them to cut their balls off?

 

[TheSHEEEP]

And your solution to a mental illness is to let them fall into its vices and pressure them to cut their balls off?

Are you tired? You do realize you are asking me something I already answered in at least some detail, in reply to a post that you made?
Not sure what else to tell you, repeating myself probably won't help you, either.

Most mental illnesses do not have a proper "solution", like a pill to take that solves it all or a therapy that always works.
Transitioning is one possible treatment, physical transitioning the last/final one that should be considered due to its generally irrevocable nature, especially for teens.

If you know a doctor who is pressuring people into that, please report them because that is pretty damn vile.

 

[Ghost of Caelid]

Gender is a byproduct of our biological processes. For example, the scientific definition of a woman is an adult who possesses the female reproductive tract, arising secondary to female sex hormones (eg estradiol).

Trans people would like us to believe us our biological and secondary sex characteristics do not determine gender. If they do not, then what does? Hair, make up and high heels?

Science is a method of study, the social science study human social conditions, you can't use the term science to try and describe away social topics. No one thing determines your gender in the same way no one thing determines your sex. Intersex people are an example of how complex sex can be. There are more than 30 different types of intersex variations, but then we only have two gender descriptions? Gender is a descriptive social marker, the multiple things that make up gender are determined by what the person feels internally and expresses outwardly.

 

[OZ9000]

There are people who are born female without a functional or developed reproductive tract - guess "science" says they aren't women! Regardless, this question has been already looked into for decades, but as this seems to be your first time asking the question and you apparently have done zero research of your own, this will get you started:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8955456/

"These findings add support to the notion that the underlying brain anatomy in transgender people is shifted away from their biological sex towards their gender identity."

There are many, many, many more studies that show similar findings.

"Some (or perhaps all) of the aforementioned variables may have contributed to neuroanatomical variations in transgender brains, as repeatedly observed in both post mortem and in vivo studies published over the past three decades [10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28]."

The standard definition still applies although there will always be certain exceptions due to medical illness. For example - chromosomal XY males who have androgen insensitivity syndrome develop as females due to failure to response to testosterone, and subsequent aromatisation to estrogen. They are completely feminised due to a complete lack of action from testosterone. All of us have both testosterone and estrogen receptors. Strip a man away from testosterone and inject him with estrogen and you'll see what will occur. On that same note, environmental estrogens are ubiqitous and may explain the rise of modern day trends. I should note our brains have a degree of neuroplasticity.

The sample sizes are also rather small but yes there are some studies which indicate there could be potential neuroanatomical differences. However, from some of your references:

"Rather than being merely shifted towards either end of the male-female spectrum, transgender persons seem to present with their own unique brain phenotype. Mueller SC, Guillamon A, Zubiaurre-Elorza L, et al. The Neuroanatomy of Transgender Identity: Mega-Analytic Findings From the ENIGMA Transgender Persons Working Group. J Sex Med 2021;18:1122-1129."

"Results revealed that regional gray matter variation in MTF transsexuals is more similar to the pattern found in men than in women." Luders E, Sánchez FJ, Gaser C, Toga AW, Narr KL, Hamilton LS, Vilain E. Regional gray matter variation in male-to-female transsexualism. Neuroimage. 2009 Jul 15;46(4):904-7. doi: 10.1016/j.neuroimage.2009.03.048. Epub 2009 Mar 31. PMID: 19341803; PMCID: PMC2754583.

"The present data do not support the notion that brains of MtF-TR are feminized. The observed changes in MtF-TR bring attention to the networks inferred in processing of body perception." Savic I, Arver S. Sex dimorphism of the brain in male-to-female transsexuals. Cereb Cortex. 2011 Nov;21(11):2525-33. doi: 10.1093/cercor/bhr032. Epub 2011 Apr 5. PMID: 21467211.

 

[The Cockatrice]

Are you tired? You do realize you are asking me something I already answered in at least some detail, in reply to a post that you made?
Not sure what else to tell you, repeating myself probably won't help you, either.

Most mental illnesses do not have a proper "solution", like a pill to take that solves it all or a therapy that always works.
Transitioning is one possible treatment, physical transitioning the last/final one that should be considered due to its generally irrevocable nature, especially for teens.

If you know a doctor who is pressuring people into that, please report them because that is pretty damn vile.

It was rhetorical. We shouldnt let them do that. So lets just stop here and hope you do not have kids with what you call "mental illness". I call it a phase.