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[Forsythia]

And why would they really want that?
If they want to be referred to as real women or men then why would they want it pointing out that they're not?
Bit like Dead Space Remake having a symbol for male/female and then a trans symbol as well on a open restroom?
What's the point? It's open to both anyway
How is that accepting when it's separating.
I know that's how I'd feel about it

Totally agreed. We are constanly told "trans women are women" and "trans men are men". That's all fine and dandy, but why the need to distinquish themselves as trans then?

 

[DeaDPo0L84]

It's pretty simple if you are not stuck mentally in the 18th century...

Yes, it can absolutely be okay for developing teens to go under the cosmetic knife, under VERY specific and VERY rare circumstances.
Let people have their fantasies. It's a game. It can't hurt you.

Your name is perfect.

 

[Dr. Claus]

Even if it's one person that one person gets a feature they like and those who don't require it lose nothing in a game about role playing different kinds of lives. So its a win win. More content given, none taken.

So then we should also allow the ability for scars on the arms to indicate teens cutting themselves? Let's add the ability for teens to have sex and get pregnant. Fuck it, add drugs too! Pot and heroin and let my little teen Timmy sell it on the corner streets. I mean it's more content and allows for role playing different kinds of lives, right?

There is a reason why we didn't have these for years, because it is a line that shouldn't be crossed.

Again, if this was *only* options for adults, I would have no problem with it. Not for the damn kids.

 

[Ghost of Caelid]

So then we should also allow the ability for scars on the arms to indicate teens cutting themselves? Let's add the ability for teens to have sex and get pregnant. Fuck it, add drugs too! Pot and heroin and let my little teen Timmy sell it on the corner streets. I mean it's more content and allows for role playing different kinds of lives, right?

There is a reason why we didn't have these for years, because it is a line that shouldn't be crossed.

Again, if this was *only* options for adults, I would have no problem with it. Not for the damn kids.

You don't have to take every example to the extreme...again the game is T for teen, could we add arm scars genuinely? Sure, its a realistic life example, obviously couldn't do most drugs outside of pot which should be added. It's about role playing the you you want to be, so giving the option within the realms of legality and current cultural norms isn't the end of the world. Gay couples in the sims even took cultural norms to catch up before making it official.

 

[Kagoshima_Luke]

I don't think it's a bad thing that this game is inclusive of the mentally ill. Hopefully, they're inclusive of all mentally ill people.

Can't wait for the schizophrenia update where my sim can stand in front of a corner store yelling obscenities at himself.

That one missed the schizophrenia update, but will be coming next month in the Tourette update.

 

[PeteBull]

Totally agreed. We are constanly told "trans women are women" and "trans men are men". That's all fine and dandy, but why the need to distinquish themselves as trans then?

They are men and women if u look at them from gender ideology pov , if u look at them from pov of biological sex, its all simple, tiger doesnt become rabbit when it thinks of itself as a rabbit, nuff said, and u got examples of animals living among different type of animals/not knowing any better and thinking of themselfs as those other animals, still we dont call them any different than what they were born as.

U can identify as w/e, especially online, myself or no1 else shouldnt care about it, but irl, if u look like a guy, got guys voice, and put womens clothes/make up on urself, most normal ppl outside of woke buble(which is relatively small part of US and western Europe) will think of u as exactly that, aka guy and nothing gonna change that, not those ppl wanna hurt ur feelings(or godforbid physically, which would be pure evil) but thats how it is, simply.
If Pamela Anderson from today on starts to identify as a guy or alien spaceship i will accept it even tho it will be totally weird but she is free human after all but for not even for half a second i will not think of her as a woman.

 

[TheSHEEEP]

Your name is perfect.

Never heard that one before.
What's next? Attack helicopter joke?

 

[Sethbacca]

The number of people whinging and whining about a game update that doesn't impact them in the slightest is too damn high.

 

[Oddvintagechap]

What exactly am I supposed to be outraged about? A scar?

This is why you will never be the CEO of Fox News. Some of us aspire to get wealthy out of people’s insecurities and fears.

 

[Deerock71]

That's it! I'm going to continue not purchasing Sims 4 ever (frankly, I'm surprised it took them this long).

 

[Salmon]

Sims 5 will surely turn into a full blown p-e-d-o simulator.

 

[93xfan]

The number of people whinging and whining about a game update that doesn't impact them in the slightest is too damn high.

Update has transgender stuff for teens. So you don’t care about irreversible harm done to children. Got it.

How dare anyone care about loss of bone density, sterility from off-label drugs, and other life long effects and regret from transgender advocates that creates lifelong patients for certain companies. Puberty doesn’t continue or catch up for some patients either.

What pharmaceutical company do you work for and what was the cost to sell out our children? Thanks for letting us know about your apathy to child abuse

 

[93xfan]

Nice deflection by the way, so anyone who doesn't agree with you automatically likes to mutilate children? Seems a bit aggressive considering I don't care much about additional options being added to a game where you can live your virtual life how YOU want.

You can either push back against the madness done to children that is intertwined with “treatments” that can permanently halt their puberty, cause a permanent loss in bone density, cause a lifetime of physical discomfort and pain and also cause sterility.

I know I can be harsh with some of you, but the reality is that too few of you have bothered to do the research. Once you begin to know the ramifications though, how could anyone sit there and not fight against this.

And if you can’t betting yourself to fight for helping children, then at least don’t stand in the way or come in here to complain about those who do. I’ll leave you all with the following to think about from an article I found:

**********************************

Dr. Shayne Taylor helped launch Vanderbilt’s gender clinic in 2018 and admitted in a lecture delivered that same year that sex-change treatments were very profitable. She noted that insurance carriers are required under Obamacare to cover “medical expenses for trans folks” and bragged that every gender-confused woman who wishes to undergo “top surgery,” otherwise known as a double mastectomy, can bring in $40,000. “Bottom surgery” is also lucrative, she said, citing an estimate (which she believes is a “gross underestimate) that each vaginoplasty brings in $20,000 — not including the patient’s hospital stay, post-op care, anesthesia, etc. A patient who simply wishes to be on a routine hormonal treatment plan can bring in “several thousand dollars,” she continued.

“This actually makes money for the hospital,” Taylor added, saying she knows of one clinic that funds itself completely from performing phalloplasties, the creation of a fake penis, on women.”

 

[Dusktildawn48]

I swear 10 years from now 20% of younger people will be trans or non binary.

 

[F0rneus]

My Sims in 4 are already sucking dick, doing anal, lesbian threesomes, bondage, being serial killers, getting AIDS...Shit why not? This update is for those who need it and that's great. And I'll gladly receive it. Representation is great.

 

[Kacho]

I swear 10 years from now 20% of younger people will be trans or non binary.

 

[Dusktildawn48]

Right on point, he's correct about everything. The rise of t+ people is staggering over the last few years.

 

[Ghost of Caelid]

Let’s go back to the 1970s when a ton of straight men went on a “work trip” to visit their secret boyfriend. People been sexually fluid, with acceptance the number is naturally going to be higher.

 

[Sethbacca]

Update has transgender stuff for teens. So you don’t care about irreversible harm done to children. Got it.

How dare anyone care about loss of bone density, sterility from off-label drugs, and other life long effects and regret from transgender advocates that creates lifelong patients for certain companies. Puberty doesn’t continue or catch up for some patients either.

What pharmaceutical company do you work for and what was the cost to sell out our children? Thanks for letting us know about your apathy to child abuse

Yeah. You win. I’m a big pharma plant sent here to play boogeyman. I ain’t seen a strawman this dumb since the last time I watched the wizard of oz.

 

[Rhazkul]

Yes, it is.
Extremely rare, even.

If it's so rare to the point where it's almost non-existent, why include such super rare delusions in a game anyway? And why this delusion specifically? Why can't i LARP as a confused Alien who got placed onto earth, or pretend i am Jesus or Lucifer and demand that people refer to me in that way accordingly without getting locked up in an asylum?
If it's so rare, why is language and society (bathrooms, sports and competition) completely turned over -where nothing makes sense anymore- so a tiny tiny tiny minority can feel comfortable being delusional? And again: why do we, as a society, have to accommodate these people specifically? Where's the accommodation for: depressed people, down-syndrome, deaf and blind, mutes, paraplegic, invalids, people who believe they are God, Satan etc and combat vets? I don't get what gender dysphoria makes people seemingly so "special".

 

[93xfan]

Yeah. You win. I’m a big pharma plant sent here to play boogeyman. I ain’t seen a strawman this dumb since the last time I watched the wizard of oz.

I was making a point that there’s no reason you should be defending these horrible procedures while also pointing out how much money is made off of the misery of these kids. Any thoughts on that?

 

[TheSHEEEP]

Update has transgender stuff for teens. So you don’t care about irreversible harm done to children. Got it.

It's a game.
Repeat after me:
It's a game.

A game allowing people (any people, including kids) to live out fantasies by changing their own appearance does not do any harm to them or other people.
Pretty sure stuff you do in pretty much all games would cause "irreversible harm" in the real world as well (and if you think that's only a bad thing when done to/by children, think again).

So either you need to be out there arguing against about 80% of things that are being done by people to themselves in games or you need to realize this isn't doing harm to anyone, no matter what you think about the procedure in real life.

If it's so rare to the point where it's almost non-existent, why include such super rare delusions in a game anyway?

First, Body/Gender dysmorphia is not a delusion. You keep defeating the point you are trying to make by showcasing you don't actually know the first thing about it.
I don't know who you are trying to convince with your level of haha funny "pub politics" talk. Yourself?

Anyway, what is the point of including any kind of customization, no matter how rare, in any game?
I'm sure you'll figure that one out eventually. It's a real tough nut, but I believe in you.

 

[Radical Dreamer]

Right on point, he's correct about everything. The rise of t+ people is staggering over the last few years.

It's basically equivalent to being emo 15 years ago lmao. It's trendy. I 100% agree with Maher on this.

 

[LegendOfKage]

It's a game.
Repeat after me:
It's a game.

A game allowing people (any people, including kids) to live out fantasies by changing their own appearance does not do any harm to them or other people.
Pretty sure stuff you do in pretty much all games would cause "irreversible harm" in the real world as well (and if you think that's only a bad thing when done to/by children, think again).

So either you need to be out there arguing against about 80% of things that are being done by people to themselves in games or you need to realize this isn't doing harm to anyone, no matter what you think about the procedure in real life.


First, Body/Gender dysmorphia is not a delusion. You keep defeating the point you are trying to make by showcasing you don't actually know the first thing about it.
I don't know who you are trying to convince with your level of haha funny "pub politics" talk. Yourself?

Anyway, what is the point of including any kind of customization, no matter how rare, in any game?
I'm sure you'll figure that one out eventually. It's a real tough nut, but I believe in you.

You seem to know a lot about the subject, so I'd like to ask you something I've been wondering for a while. Body dysmorphia used to be considered a mental illness, but now it's not. My question is how was it scientifically proven that it was being classified incorrectly for all these years? What did researchers find that made it different from OCD, or anxiety, or PTSD, for example?

I'm not sure I've ever heard the reasoning there, and I think a lot of people feel that it was just given a new classification to reduce the stigma associated with mental illness. If that's not the case, that's an explanation I'd like to understand for myself when it comes to speaking in support of trans people.

 

[TheSHEEEP]

Body dysmorphia used to be considered a mental illness, but now it's not. My question is how was it scientifically proven that it was being classified incorrectly for all these years? What did researchers find that made it different from OCD, or anxiety, or PTSD, for example?

Of course it is a mental illness.

Some people take offense at the word "illness" (you know, sensitivities run hot these days...) and instead call it a mental health "condition" - but that word trickery is true for all mental illnesses.
Just different words to say the same thing - I'm not a fan of that, either.

Or maybe the idea here is that an illness is something you can "catch" like a cold and can generally be easily cured.
While mental illnesses (sorry, health conditions) are a lot more complex than that.

Maybe that's what you mean?

 

[LegendOfKage]

Of course it is a mental illness.

Some people take offense at the word "illness" (you know, sensitivities run hot these days...) and instead call it a mental health "condition" - but that word trickery is true for all mental illnesses.
Just different words to say the same thing - I'm not a fan of that, either.

Or maybe the idea here is that an illness is something you can "catch" like a cold and can generally be easily cured.
While mental illnesses (sorry, health conditions) are a lot more complex than that.

Maybe that's what you mean?

Maybe I meant gender dysphoria, rather than body dysphoria. I just thought I remember people making the argument that having dysphoria is not a mental illness. I also thought the condition itself was no longer considered a mental illness, and was given a separate classification. I never understood why that was, but perhaps I'm mistaken.

 

[TheSHEEEP]

Maybe I meant gender dysphoria, rather than body dysphoria.

I'm not a doctor, but from my understanding both are very closely related, with gender dysphoria being a sub-category of body dysphoria (since your biological sex is not the only thing that can feel "wrong" for your brain).
Btw, there's both dysphoria and dysmorphia, they are not the same (but can appear at the same time) and easily mixed up by name.

As I said, it's complex. I surely don't understand all of it myself - but I at least try to inform myself about the basics.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Pretty soon they're going to add the option to determine the size of men's taints as a result of what we consume and you might want to start adding categories for whether we should have braided pube hairs.

And on the subject of braided pubic hairs they really should also invest in the engine and add Havoc physics and speedtree to all pubic regions of hair. We're talking about realism here and it's unacceptable in the of the Year 2023 to not have these breakthrough technologies.

 

[OZ9000]

I swear 10 years from now 20% of younger people will be trans or non binary.

They already are.

Everyone thinks they're special and deserves special pandering and treatment.

You may live whatever fantasies you wish, just do not expect the general populous to partake it in as well.

 

[Majormaxxx]

Cool I guess.

 

[Sethbacca]

I was making a point that there’s no reason you should be defending these horrible procedures while also pointing out how much money is made off of the misery of these kids. Any thoughts on that?

I think you’re tilting at windmills on something that’s near non existent. If it’s a fad as you’re all saying then it will pass and in 20 years people will look back on it and wonder what they were thinking. I think the bigger harm comes from having a not insignificant percentage of society tell these people that they shouldn’t be alive and that they’re going to burn in hell etc.

For someone who appears to consume the media of the party that claims personal responsibility and less government, you sure don’t seem to want to allow people to take self responsibility and also want to enforce the government’s will on everyone. Maybe watch less Fox?

Anyway this whole thing is nothing but a political discussion couched in game camo so I’m going to bow out of it before the mods nuke us.

 

[Ghost of Caelid]

They already are.

Everyone thinks they're special and deserves special pandering and treatment.

You may live whatever fantasies you wish, just do not expect the general populous to partake it in as well.

Don’t you think that as a particular lifestyle becomes more accepted naturally the numbers for it are going to rise? You posted a graph with no context as to why just “here’s information. As if it’s nefarious. Gay marriage became legal barely a decade ago, our previous democratic president wasn’t even pro gay marriage till later in his political career. So yea with acceptance we’ll see a rise in the numbers.

 

[OZ9000]

Don’t you think that as a particular lifestyle becomes more accepted naturally the numbers for it are going to rise? You posted a graph with no context as to why just “here’s information. As if it’s nefarious. Gay marriage became legal barely a decade ago, our previous democratic president wasn’t even pro gay marriage till later in his political career. So yea with acceptance we’ll see a rise in the numbers.

The above is due to a culmination of environmental trends, not biology.

 

[Sethbacca]

The above is due to a culmination of environmental trends, not biology.

Id say an environment where people are more welcoming and less likely to kill you would lead to a more free expression of your biology.

 

[OZ9000]

Id say an environment where people are more welcoming and less likely to kill you would lead to a more free expression of your biology.

Why is there a sudden explosion of 'non-binary' and 'trans' people in this generation? It's become as fashionable as an article of clothing.

Being a woman is now akin to putting on a hat.

 

[Ghost of Caelid]

The above is due to a culmination of environmental trends, not biology.

That's can't be proven. So it's pointless to make a claim...if someone tells you their sexuality and you go "only cause the environment" you're not providing anything of substance.

 

[Sethbacca]

Why is there a sudden explosion of 'non-binary' and 'trans' people in this generation? It's become as fashionable as an article of clothing.

Being a woman is now akin to putting on a hat.

These people have always existed, they hid under threat of death from people who think they have the right to determine how other people exist. The problem isn't them, it's you for thinking you have any input into how other people live. It has no impact on your existence, go find something productive to do with your life.

 

[TheSHEEEP]

Why is there a sudden explosion of 'non-binary' and 'trans' people in this generation? It's become as fashionable as an article of clothing.

Being a woman is now akin to putting on a hat.

 

[The Cockatrice]

Yes, it can absolutely be okay for developing teens to go under the cosmetic knife, under VERY specific and VERY rare circumstances

what the fuck

 

[TheSHEEEP]

what the fuck

Crazy, huh?
How your black-and-white thinking doesn't actually work in the real world...

 

[The Cockatrice]

Crazy, huh?
How your black-and-white thinking doesn't actually work in the real world...

Only functioning, mature, and mentally stable adults should be allowed those changes. Not kids. Thats idiotic, abusive, and inhumane. A kid or teen is easily influenced and his or her "choices" might not be their real choices. You are a fucking moron.

 

[Rush2112]

20% of genZ. Basically, brainwashed kids lets be real here.

 

[OZ9000]

These people have always existed, they hid under threat of death from people who think they have the right to determine how other people exist. The problem isn't them, it's you for thinking you have any input into how other people live. It has no impact on your existence, go find something productive to do with your life.

It does have an impact on my existence, especially when this is being pushed into the public sphere. I do not want my children to grow up in a world where it is acceptable to change your gender on a whim. It is problematic because it is not based on rational thought or science, but rather feelings.

My friend is a doctor and informed me how a child's parents pushed a referral to a gender identity clinic because their son claimed he was a girl after watching a few tiktok videos. Insanity.

As I said, gender has now become a fashionable item of clothing. First they claimed gender was a social construct. If that is the case, then why are you compelled to 'transition' to the 'opposite sex'?

A humorous take on the subject:

 

[TheSHEEEP]

Only functioning, mature, and mentally stable adults should be allowed those changes. Not kids. Thats idiotic, abusive, and inhumane. A kid or teen is easily influenced and his or her "choices" might not be their real choices. You are a fucking moron.

So what about a teen that's been suffering from gender dysphoria for years, with severe impact on their life, grades, happiness, begging the parents to make a decision so they can feel right in their own body...
Even after years of therapies, talking to doctors, etc. nothing has improved.

Obviously actual transitioning is never the first choice, it has to be a last resort thing. And I agree there is an issue if it is being pushed on the kid (or parents) way too early, possibly for profit.

Anyway, let's say the teen is now 15.

Now, what? Wait until some official deadline where suddenly the very same procedure is perfectly fine?
Push the kid further into despair (with all that entails for the rest of their life) and possible suicide for a few of years? Various non-intrusive therapies have already proven futile.
Or do something that doctors do recommend at that point and that actually has a very high chance of improving your kid's life - with a real but very small chance of backfiring down the line?

"I don't care about your suffering, you can fix it when you're 18 and still happen to be suffering"?
Doesn't sit right with me at all.

I do not want my children to grow up in a world where it is acceptable to change your gender on a whim.

You should read less Breitbart headlines if you honestly believe something like that ever happens on a whim.
It never does. Not in a single fucking case has anyone woken up one morning and just had the random thought "I'll be man/woman now for the rest of my life" and had their dick chopped off with their parents permission.
And you should honestly realize how absurd it is to claim that.

 

[Sethbacca]

It does have an impact on my existence, especially when this is being pushed into the public sphere. I do not want my children to grow up in a world where it is acceptable to change your gender on a whim. It is problematic because it is not based on rational thought or science, but rather feelings.

My friend is a doctor and informed me how a child's parents pushed a referral to a gender identity clinic because their son claimed he was a girl after watching a few tiktok videos. Insanity.

As I said, gender has now become a fashionable item of clothing. First they claimed gender was a social construct. If that is the case, then why are you compelled to 'transition' to the 'opposite sex'?

A humorous take on the subject:

I don’t want my child to grow up in a world where people think they get to determine how everyone else lives. I don’t think either of us are going to get what they want. Maybe just stay in your lane and teach your children your values and teach them there are going to be people in the world that don’t share their values or beliefs rather than trying to enforce your world view on everyone else.

 

[John Bilbo]

It does have an impact on my existence, especially when this is being pushed into the public sphere. I do not want my children to grow up in a world where it is acceptable to change your gender on a whim. It is problematic because it is not based on rational thought or science, but rather feelings.

My friend is a doctor and informed me how a child's parents pushed a referral to a gender identity clinic because their son claimed he was a girl after watching a few tiktok videos. Insanity.

As I said, gender has now become a fashionable item of clothing. First they claimed gender was a social construct. If that is the case, then why are you compelled to 'transition' to the 'opposite sex'?

A humorous take on the subject:

Currently in my country there is a law under vote in the parliament for anyone to be able to change their legal sex once a year without any questioning or evidence for any sort of dysphoria. We have a left wing covernment at the moment and the law seems to be passing.

If this is too close to politics please remove this message.

 

[The Cockatrice]

Obviously actual transitioning is never the first choice, it has to be a last resort thing.

There you go. It's not a life threatening disease. If they are mentally unprepared, because they do not feel well with their own body and can't handle it, the more reasons why they should not be allowed these changes, yet. All teenagers go through millions of emotions and insecurities up and until at least 24 years old.

 

[OZ9000]

I don’t want my child to grow up in a world where people think they get to determine how everyone else lives. I don’t think either of us are going to get what they want. Maybe just stay in your lane and teach your children your values and teach them there are going to be people in the world that don’t share their values or beliefs rather than trying to enforce your world view on everyone else.

Pot, meet kettle.

 

[Sethbacca]

Pot, meet kettle.

I'm advocating for people doing what they want without interference from each other, you're out here thinking you can control how other people exist. We're not even close to the same.

 

[OZ9000]

I'm advocating for people doing what they want without interference from each other, you're out here thinking you can control how other people exist. We're not even close to the same.

Incorrect. See that Ricky Gervais video as an example.

Or see how quickly the band will 'cancel' anyone who says something they do not like. eg JK Rowling, Dave Chappelle.