Much more because you aren't looking at specific limitations in the console nor are you defining what "much more" would mean. When I challenge you to give specifics, you immediately throw the kitchen sink at me because you can't give them. That's not my fault.
Let's start becoming aware of limitations and stating those before you imagine "Much more".
Step 1:
Admit that the PS5 is a 1440p console with very limited RT capabilities. Use the facts of the games that are coming out and how many features they are able to implement at 4k/30FPS -- which is ONE feature.
Step 2:
Much more of a difference from HZD1 to HZD2 will entail a new lighting system. Using the conventional pre-baked lighting system with only 1 dynamic light source in the game isn't going to reach that "much more" milestone.
Step 3:
Define what "much more" would mean in order to get there based on what the game does now. More complex shaders? Higher fidelity textures (2k to 4k)? How much bandwidth would that cost?
etc.. etc..
It's not very hard to make good assessments for what you think a game may look like based on what you already know and what limits you can impose on the hardware. That's much much better than assuming "devs can do wonders somehow.. and GG can work magic somehow to add everything to the pot while keeping the same limitations in hardware.."
LOL obvious troll is obvious.
Can we all just put this twat on ignore? So he can't fuck up threads all the time?
Fuck your goalposts. I never said "unlimited power" so why don't you swallow your fragile ego for once and be like, "oh right, my bad."
All you do is project like the PCMR fanaticunt you pretend not to be.
You speak like it has unlimited power because it hurts you like no tomorrow to admit PS5 has limitations..
To be ahead 2%-15% in framerate multiplatform race and feel good about $500 well spent.And until then, Nintendo will sell bazillions.
Why bother buying a next gen console now, if games will come two years later?
Just don't engage too seriously with them sir(madam?). I've met quite a few saying rather absurd stuff, like how GOW is an ultra deep complex RPG because you can do... brawler combos, or how TLoU2 AI is the most amazingly advanced ever ignoring npcs are comically on rails.If you go all the way back to page 1 when I replied and then watched the replies of people.. it is quite hilarious how much hatred for what I say shows through from the Sony guys...
I had highlighted in your text, that I quoted, just expand the quote box.
I'd agree with Infamous being a looker and Killzone as well. Driveclub is nice, but most car games are very nice. But, we're talking about "generation defining" and for me the first one was The Order 1886 which was a 2015 relase! Even now that game is a STUNNER! Then Uncharted 4 a year later.I'd say Infamous was a looker, along with Killzone and they came out at/very close to launch. Driveclub came out about a year after PS4 launched and I'd argue it's still one of the best looking racing games ever. This is all within 12 months of launch - and these were not cross-gen games.
Some people are just disappointed in the approach whichever companies doing it. HZD2 and potentially GOW Ragnarok being cross gen are a real let down. Are they not confident enough in the sales of the PS5 and it's capability to push graphics and gameplay forward? Give me a strong enough reason to upgrade. If the new systems aren't good enough to make meaningful progress they should've stuck with the current systems for another few years especially since they both had a mid gen refresh.So no proper next gen games on ps5 until 2022/2023, this is 1-2 years after these will start to arrive on Xbox Series consoles. So many Sony fans on this forum were making fun of Xbox and because of this and now Jim Ryan delivers such a blow to their narrative. Lots of crow should be eaten by some Sony fans on neogaf.
Insomniac blatantly said ratchet is exclusive to ps5 on twitter.Confident Ratchet and God of War will be PS5 only next year. I don't want people to run with this and assume PS5 and XSX are in the same boat, they are not.
yeah it is obvious but they spent the whole build up to the generation saying they believe in generations(and every pony was lapping it up), as in new gen means leaving the past behind, going as far as leaving it as late as possible to announce PS4 versions of some of their games
the fact they went back on it is news, since the other way was news too
stop pretending like it isnt
Listen, you are some guy on a forum that that likes to spout hate rhetoric towards anyone excited about what next gen will deliver graphically - you keep citing cross platform game's that are not in fact anywhere in the same league as first party hardcore hitter's - and then cite better performance on crossplatform specific games - Horizon Zero Dawn could be used in the same manner to show just how shoddy performance is on PC when first party games are in fact finally ported over.Again you are putting an imaginary vision on what next-gen title means without knowing the specifics in graphics technology that will be on display. This is where developer (me) clashes with enthusiast (you). I know all the advanced techniques and the consoles can't do most of them at the same time for lack of power. There is only reason to continue to push through and implement some of the features that the PC has been doing for years now - mainly ray-tracing, higher res textures, more tessellation, finally 16x Anisotropic filtering, better draw distances, better volumetric approximation, and sharper shadows -- ALL at the same time. This will yield the best visual results. Period.
Valhalla, Avengers, Crysis REmake, Control, Metro Exodus, Cyberpunk, Watch Dogs: Legion, etc.. are all games when played on the PC on Ultra are completely unplayable on next-gen consoles and represent the latest tech in rendering. They implement most, if not all of said improvements ALL at the SAME TIME. This is how it is whether you like it or not.
You continue to throw MS into the mix when they are a multiplatform studio (Sony will be soon as well to a lesser degree) where their best efforts into the above paragraph I mentioned would be using the PC hardware - not the XSX. So that leaves you believing that Sony's PS5 will somehow implement all of those features at one time in a game to blow people's minds. The BIG problem is that the PS5 doesn't have the hardware to do it all at once... so you are stuck with piecemeal graphics - 1 RT feature, high res textures but not 8k textures, sharper shadows but less volume FX, upsampling 1440p instead of native 4k, no DLSS to improve performance enough to bridge the RT bottleneck, etc.. so logically, a PS5 will NOT nor EVER have the best and most tech implemented in a game to make a generational leap from today's games. It can only use the best choices and adhere to it's talent pool of artists. And that's just not going to be enough to leapfrog what's out there on PC right now like the games I mentioned.
that is literally what believing in generations means ofcourse by believing in generations you lose alot of potential money but thats why it was such a big deal when Sony said that... but now they went back on it and thats news worthy how are you not getting this through your headBelieving in generations doesn't mean giving up the opportunity for easy and massive revenue on the console with the biggest installed base in the world. They never once implied that they would.
No. It isn't news, and I'm genuinely laughing at how whiny you sound about it.
that is literally what believing in generations means ofcourse by believing in generations you lose alot of potential money but thats why it was such a big deal when Soby said that... but now they went back on and thats news worthy how are you not getting this through your head
you cant support last gen and say we believe in generations stop beibg a blibd fanboy
they made the correct financial decision, while tryibg to pretend like they weren't... simple as that
that is literally what believing in generations means ofcourse by believing in generations you lose alot of potential money but thats why it was such a big deal when Sony said that... but now they went back on it and thats news worthy how are you not getting this through your head
you cant support last gen and say we believe in generations stop being a blibd fanboy
they made the correct financial decision, while trying to pretend like they they weren't... simple as that.
believing in generations would mean GoW Ragnarok and Horizon 2 would not be on PS4, this is facts. so they lied, so it is surprising and news worthy
so i guess you expected Ragnarok and Horizon 2 to be on PS4 too few months ago?Translation of the above: "I will turn my dumb personal interpretation of a sentence into absolute factual reality and anyone who doesn't stick to that dumb personal interpretation of the sentence lied."
Also, "I'll fill my post up with typos and bad grammar so that it'll be painful to read. Maybe they won't bother responding and telling me how silly I am"
Nothing new here. That being said, it is rather hilarious to see someone defending these desperate sensationalist non-news "articles" (quotation marks obligatory) trying so hard to make mountains out of molehills for clicks.
so i guess you expected Ragnarok and Horizon 2 to be on PS4 too few months ago?
all you are defending is a corporate decision that hurts the gamers, and to suggest Sony never misled people would be the most idiotic and ignorant comment i have ever seen... just go back a few months on this forum when Ponys were laughing at MS for supporting Xbox One for 2 years, so dont tell me its ridiculous that the "believe in generations" meant what everyone in the world taught it meant
if you think game design is not being beld back by last gen hardware then we are done hereAbsolutely. I actually did NOT expect Demon's souls to be PS5-only.
"hurts the gamers?"
Boy, you sound like a politician and a bad one. What's the next crap site you're gonna defend? Kotaku?
No one's going to be "hurt" by cross-platform games, besides the ego of a few irrelevant console warriors with a very short memory.
Listen, you are some guy on a forum that that likes to spout hate rhetoric towards anyone excited about what next gen will deliver graphically - you keep citing cross platform game's that are not in fact anywhere in the same league as first party hardcore hitter's - and then cite better performance on crossplatform specific games - Horizon Zero Dawn could be used in the same manner to show just how shoddy performance is on PC when first party games are in fact finally ported over.
--- snip ---
On the other hand PS5 has factually stated - they won't actually have genre defining next gen games release on that ecosystem until 2022 - and until then Spidey is still undeniably the best looking game out. So you arguement "Consoles Game's don't, cant and never will look better than game's released already on PC" is already flatly debunked.
99% agree with youThis is what I expect from Sony
2020
- Spiderman Miles Morales (Cross Gen)
- Sackboy Adventure (Cross Gen)
- Demon's Souls
2021
- Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart
- Returnal
- Destruction All-stars
- Gran Turismo 7
- Horizon 2 (Cross Gen)
- God of War Ragnarok (Cross Gen)
- Last of Us 2 Factions Battle Royale (Cross Gen)
2022
- Ghost of Tsushima: 2nd Assault Expansion (Cross Gen)
2022 Second Half
No more cross gen games
I think we will be getting cross gen going until early 2022. Gran Turismo I don't expect to be cross gen mainly because they will reuse assets from Sport to make the game faster and cheaper. And I think Sony would want to support the game long term and make use of SSD for fast matchmaking. Last of Us 2 Factions is a obvious cross gen game as it would use the same engine, it would also need to have a massive olayerbase as I'm expecting them to take on battle royale so a large user base from PS4 is a must, I also reckon Naughty Dog will release Last of Us 2 Remastered around the same time and bundle in the multiplayer with the PS5 version ala Spiderman Ultimate Edition. God of War being cross gen makes sense as there is too much smoke, short dev time, Jim Ryan not denying it being cross gen. Ghost of Tsushuma singleplayer expansion happening a year after the original makes sense as it's a Sucker Punch tradition (Festival of Blood, First Light), they can just reuse the same map and have a new story with a new playable character.
Sony having so many cross gen games helps them have a loaded 2021 games lineup, I expect some of those would slip to early 2022.
Just don't engage too seriously with them sir(madam?). I've met quite a few saying rather absurd stuff, like how GOW is an ultra deep complex RPG because you can do... brawler combos, or how TLoU2 AI is the most amazingly advanced ever ignoring npcs are comically on rails.
People will see what they want to see and taking it too seriously will just eat away at your sanity, until eventually the abyss gazes back at you.
Don't take the people who clearly just want to defend their favorite platform/games seriously, choose to engage with the ones you judge are actually interested or actually know what they're talking about.
Theres a reason why "Don't play chess with pigeons" is a saying.
Speaking of The Last of Us 2, when's it coming out on PC?Again, another person's opinion on what looks good and what doesn't. We can do this all generation. I don't care if you state you game on the PC. That could be a lie. From the way you talk, you must have a really crappy PC..
I like looking at the facts. And the facts are.. the best graphics features are when a developer cranks up all of what they have to offer to the gamer for said game and that game is on a PC GPU w/Ultra settings. YOU may think Spiderman looks the best out of every PC game but MANY other people already marvel over FLIGHT SIM 2020 as the most next-gen looking title to date. And guess what? That game is doing some AMAZING technology! Spiderman MM ??? Yea.. sure.
No idea why you quoted but: don't know, don't care, game's crap so I wouldn't buy it anyway just like i didn't buy HZD, since its also crap.Speaking of The Last of Us 2, when's it coming out on PC?
Speaking of The Last of Us 2, when's it coming out on PC?
Again, another person's opinion on what looks good and what doesn't. We can do this all generation. I don't care if you state you game on the PC. That could be a lie. From the way you talk, you must have a really crappy PC..
I like looking at the facts. And the facts are.. the best graphics features are when a developer cranks up all of what they have to offer to the gamer for said game and that game is on a PC GPU w/Ultra settings. YOU may think Spiderman looks the best out of every PC game but MANY other people already marvel over FLIGHT SIM 2020 as the most next-gen looking title to date. And guess what? That game is doing some AMAZING technology! Spiderman MM ??? Yea.. sure.
I don't care if neogaf think's it vetted you proper, your naming convention is that of some rando looking for internet clout where there is none.
I've cited Flight Sim 2020 in this thread, or perhaps the other one directly -when replying to you specifically - so ... I reminded you of the game - that's not actually a game (which is the point I made when bringing it up) - and it's something I've actually played for 2 decades and I still don't consider a game - it's a sit and watch/adjust plane height then watch more - non game. Glorified Screensaver with minimal player input after flight. Any game that has you literally demands you sit for over 7 minutes (and on multiple occasions, a game where you simply sit and stare at the screen without even issuing a keystroke in order to play at optimal) doing NOTHING, but watching scenery - as a GAMEPLAY feature need's to have it's merit as an actual game reconsidered.
And Spidey is better looking.
It has Ray Tracing on consoles, the only feature that matter's next gen
But forget that, Spidey is the best overall looking game simply according to most review sources available.
infamous 3 and kz 4 were already fully next-gen.Same situation with PS4. Bloodborne (2015) was arguably the first generation-defining title.
If god of war is actually releasing next year, I can see them making a PS4 version...hopefully not.
Again, another person's opinion on what looks good and what doesn't. We can do this all generation. I don't care if you state you game on the PC. That could be a lie. From the way you talk, you must have a really crappy PC..
I like looking at the facts. And the facts are.. the best graphics features are when a developer cranks up all of what they have to offer to the gamer for said game and that game is on a PC GPU w/Ultra settings. YOU may think Spiderman looks the best out of every PC game but MANY other people already marvel over FLIGHT SIM 2020 as the most next-gen looking title to date. And guess what? That game is doing some AMAZING technology! Spiderman MM ??? Yea.. sure.
The PC has always been the technology driver. All of our conferences that I go to talk about innovation independent of platform. All of the R&D is done on PC hardware. It always has. Most companies (before this new release of AMD cards) bought Nvidia boards and did all of the R&D on them for new graphics techniques. I spent a week at MS back in 2017 to learn their new HoloLens tech. We all used Unity (a multiplatform graphics engine), laptops, Visual Studio, and yep.. Nvidia boards. This is just an example of what actually goes on that 99% of users don't know. So I can honestly tell you that this is what's going on factually. This is not my opinion. This is fact.
An SSD is going to leverage faster loading first and foremost but then may introduce high bandwidth streaming for higher res assets. But do you really think that's the most important component in technology right now? Can you honestly say that the SSD is more important to a game's visuals than RT?
New baseline for settings but not overall tech. Since the PC can do more, it lends itself that you'd make better assets, implement the most complex features and then tone them down for the consoles.
Sounds to me GT7 might be cross-gen also which would suck but I wouldn’t be surprised.
That’s a game that will make me jump to next-gen.
I'd agree with Infamous being a looker and Killzone as well. Driveclub is nice, but most car games are very nice. But, we're talking about "generation defining" and for me the first one was The Order 1886 which was a 2015 relase! Even now that game is a STUNNER! Then Uncharted 4 a year later.
Your memory servers you right, it got dumped on pretty hard in reviews. I think it had a lot of QTE's, from what I remember, but it melted your eyes LOLI thought the Order 1886 got shit reviews all round, no? Visually though yeah very nice looking game.
Interesting insight thanks! Just wondering (not super related to this discussion), what changed between now/the last 10 years or so compared to back in the earlier days (say, PS1, PS2 and sort of PS3) when consoles were using pretty much custom chips? What caused consoles to end up becoming glorified PCs?
With SSDs yeah loading times are cool but the high speed streaming of assets is pretty exciting. I'm picturing a situation where there really is no more pop in anymore, or the game's design is fundamentally different thanks to the SSD. I don't think any game's fundamental design will change because of RT. The new cake is SSDs and the cherry on top is RT but that's just my humble opinion as a consumer.
Yeah I see your point, but is it not the case that developers have limited time/resources and are not going to spend a disproportionate amount of it on building for a target system that largely doesn't exist? (e.g. in the near future being able to build on the assumption that there is a massive install base of SSD-based consoles)
And same HUD which irks me the most. It looked like prettier GT Sport.GT7 is totally going to be cross-gen. Look at the reveal video it even has the exact same cockpit from GT Sport. Realistically they can probably throw it on PS4/PS4 Pro by removing the ray tracing, toning down the texture qualities and increasing load times. There was nothing in the reveal video that screamed "wooooooooooooooooooah" to me.
Development time and non-reuse of technology. When Sony went from PS2 to PS3, developers like ND had to rewrite their entire graphics engine and had to learn how to use the new CELL architecture. This was a complete burden on their development teams. After taking several years to master the architecture, Sony turns right around and changes it again. PS4 though addressed not just Sony but all the other AAA studios that complained about making complicated branches of code simply for the PS3. Think about the other studios like Ubisoft, EA, and Dice. They had nice portable code for the Xbox and PC platforms, but struggled with the Sony port. So Sony decided to do away with "secret sauce" custom chips and opted for a more conventional chipset. It allowed much much faster development and less confusing ways to get results from the chipset. Going to PS5 was just an extension of the PS4.. NOW companies like ND can make more money by finally rewriting their graphics engine for good to support the PC and then be allowed the opportunity to make even more money from their hard work. Everyone wins.
That is exciting! I can't wait to see UE5 demo put into practice. I'm going to predict the first game to do Nanite will be Hellblade 2 for the PC. Using MS's new DirectStorage API and Nvidia's new SSD->GPU API.
Well, it's not really spending time on a platform that's specific. The PC is an agnostic machine so what they do is universal anyway. Think about it. Creating 8k textures won't cost anymore time than if they made 4k textures from the start. Why not throw that on to the PC for added fidelity. Or how about the RT algorithm. If a developer puts the entire RT pipeline within their graphics engine (speaking on 3rd party companies), it'll work with any platform since they are using DirectX and Vulkan( or PS custom API which is very similar to Vulkan). In that sense, there really is no custom stuff at all since it's designed for the entire graphic engine and not just the game. When I'm coding in the Unreal engine, I never worry about this feature not working properly for a specific platform because the shader code is universal. It works in Unreal or it can be ported to any simple OpenGL application.