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PS5’s True “Generation-Defining” Games Won’t Come Until 2022 Says Jim Ryan

cireza

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So buying a PS5 is pointless before 2022, thanks for the clarification Jim.
 

DeepEnigma

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Much more because you aren't looking at specific limitations in the console nor are you defining what "much more" would mean. When I challenge you to give specifics, you immediately throw the kitchen sink at me because you can't give them. That's not my fault.

Let's start becoming aware of limitations and stating those before you imagine "Much more".

Step 1:

Admit that the PS5 is a 1440p console with very limited RT capabilities. Use the facts of the games that are coming out and how many features they are able to implement at 4k/30FPS -- which is ONE feature.

Step 2:

Much more of a difference from HZD1 to HZD2 will entail a new lighting system. Using the conventional pre-baked lighting system with only 1 dynamic light source in the game isn't going to reach that "much more" milestone.

Step 3:

Define what "much more" would mean in order to get there based on what the game does now. More complex shaders? Higher fidelity textures (2k to 4k)? How much bandwidth would that cost?


etc.. etc..

It's not very hard to make good assessments for what you think a game may look like based on what you already know and what limits you can impose on the hardware. That's much much better than assuming "devs can do wonders somehow.. and GG can work magic somehow to add everything to the pot while keeping the same limitations in hardware.."

Fuck your goalposts. I never said "unlimited power" so why don't you swallow your fragile ego for once and be like, "oh right, my bad."

All you do is project like the PCMR fanaticunt you pretend not to be.

LOL obvious troll is obvious.

Can we all just put this twat on ignore? So he can't fuck up threads all the time?

Every damned Sony thread that has a sniff of mentioning graphics. Obsession.
 
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VFXVeteran

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Fuck your goalposts. I never said "unlimited power" so why don't you swallow your fragile ego for once and be like, "oh right, my bad."

All you do is project like the PCMR fanaticunt you pretend not to be.

You speak like it has unlimited power because it hurts you like no tomorrow to admit PS5 has limitations..
 
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DeepEnigma

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You speak like it has unlimited power because it hurts you like no tomorrow to admit PS5 has limitations..

Fuck off, loser.

 
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Guilty_AI

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If you go all the way back to page 1 when I replied and then watched the replies of people.. it is quite hilarious how much hatred for what I say shows through from the Sony guys... :messenger_tears_of_joy:
Just don't engage too seriously with them sir(madam?). I've met quite a few saying rather absurd stuff, like how GOW is an ultra deep complex RPG because you can do... brawler combos, or how TLoU2 AI is the most amazingly advanced ever ignoring npcs are comically on rails.

People will see what they want to see and taking it too seriously will just eat away at your sanity, until eventually the abyss gazes back at you.
Don't take the people who clearly just want to defend their favorite platform/games seriously, choose to engage with the ones you judge are actually interested or actually know what they're talking about.

Theres a reason why "Don't play chess with pigeons" is a saying.
 
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Concern

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I'll take anything Jim "we believe in generations" Ryan says, with a grain of salt, actually a whole lot of it.
 

itsjustJEFF

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I'd say Infamous was a looker, along with Killzone and they came out at/very close to launch. Driveclub came out about a year after PS4 launched and I'd argue it's still one of the best looking racing games ever. This is all within 12 months of launch - and these were not cross-gen games.
I'd agree with Infamous being a looker and Killzone as well. Driveclub is nice, but most car games are very nice. But, we're talking about "generation defining" and for me the first one was The Order 1886 which was a 2015 relase! Even now that game is a STUNNER! Then Uncharted 4 a year later.
 

NT80

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So no proper next gen games on ps5 until 2022/2023, this is 1-2 years after these will start to arrive on Xbox Series consoles. So many Sony fans on this forum were making fun of Xbox and because of this and now Jim Ryan delivers such a blow to their narrative. Lots of crow should be eaten by some Sony fans on neogaf.
Some people are just disappointed in the approach whichever companies doing it. HZD2 and potentially GOW Ragnarok being cross gen are a real let down. Are they not confident enough in the sales of the PS5 and it's capability to push graphics and gameplay forward? Give me a strong enough reason to upgrade. If the new systems aren't good enough to make meaningful progress they should've stuck with the current systems for another few years especially since they both had a mid gen refresh.
 

Abriael_GN

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yeah it is obvious but they spent the whole build up to the generation saying they believe in generations(and every pony was lapping it up), as in new gen means leaving the past behind, going as far as leaving it as late as possible to announce PS4 versions of some of their games

the fact they went back on it is news, since the other way was news too

stop pretending like it isnt

Believing in generations doesn't mean giving up the opportunity for easy and massive revenue on the console with the biggest installed base in the world. They never once implied that they would.

No. It isn't news, and I'm genuinely laughing at how whiny you sound about it.
 
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Nhranaghacon

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Again you are putting an imaginary vision on what next-gen title means without knowing the specifics in graphics technology that will be on display. This is where developer (me) clashes with enthusiast (you). I know all the advanced techniques and the consoles can't do most of them at the same time for lack of power. There is only reason to continue to push through and implement some of the features that the PC has been doing for years now - mainly ray-tracing, higher res textures, more tessellation, finally 16x Anisotropic filtering, better draw distances, better volumetric approximation, and sharper shadows -- ALL at the same time. This will yield the best visual results. Period.

Valhalla, Avengers, Crysis REmake, Control, Metro Exodus, Cyberpunk, Watch Dogs: Legion, etc.. are all games when played on the PC on Ultra are completely unplayable on next-gen consoles and represent the latest tech in rendering. They implement most, if not all of said improvements ALL at the SAME TIME. This is how it is whether you like it or not.

You continue to throw MS into the mix when they are a multiplatform studio (Sony will be soon as well to a lesser degree) where their best efforts into the above paragraph I mentioned would be using the PC hardware - not the XSX. So that leaves you believing that Sony's PS5 will somehow implement all of those features at one time in a game to blow people's minds. The BIG problem is that the PS5 doesn't have the hardware to do it all at once... so you are stuck with piecemeal graphics - 1 RT feature, high res textures but not 8k textures, sharper shadows but less volume FX, upsampling 1440p instead of native 4k, no DLSS to improve performance enough to bridge the RT bottleneck, etc.. so logically, a PS5 will NOT nor EVER have the best and most tech implemented in a game to make a generational leap from today's games. It can only use the best choices and adhere to it's talent pool of artists. And that's just not going to be enough to leapfrog what's out there on PC right now like the games I mentioned.
Listen, you are some guy on a forum that that likes to spout hate rhetoric towards anyone excited about what next gen will deliver graphically - you keep citing cross platform game's that are not in fact anywhere in the same league as first party hardcore hitter's - and then cite better performance on crossplatform specific games - Horizon Zero Dawn could be used in the same manner to show just how shoddy performance is on PC when first party games are in fact finally ported over.

I'm no PS5 enthusiast, I'm not taking "their side" or anything you attempt to suggest here.

You are also implying these consoles can not deliver a locked 30/60fps low res game that offer's highly dense game asset's and overall high quality design in leu of 4k/RT - the first dev to sink all their devotion into high poly assets/animations/lowres at a locked 30 or 60 will completely floor onlookers.

You are arguing PC has the best hardware which, as a PC gamer - I argue here regularly advocating PC's but have never ignored PC gaming where it falter's - in delivering console exclusive titles.

But even ignoring allll of that,

And a whole 30+ of industry leading dev's saying graphics will be remarkable due to these performance leaps on console - you continually preach hate for those excited about this new generation of hardware. Hardware that Matches a very decent CPU and 2070Super Range GPU the caveat being it's an AMD part with untested RT implementation.

Even so the mark of a game that bring's hardware to it's knees is when gamer's have generally agreed that part has been fully utilized - no games come close to making a 2070super struggle to maintain 30 on PC unless it's by resolution boosting.

But moooooost importantly, you keep arguing that console game's never in fact look better than PC games - ever.

Currently, arguably.. the best looking game available is Spidey, a PS5 cross platform game, A game I don't consider next gen - and game that is not on PCs; yet no PC game comes close to offering the visual's seen in the new Spidey - not even ballpark close. And here you are some guy spouting nonsense about how terrible games look on Console when no other title on PC come close to Spidey in term's of sheer visual splendor - and that isn't even a next gen game according to me particularly.

As far as Xbox, it's not worth mentioning the next gen crossover exodus - it has not started and aside from hellblade2/the more unremarkable titles they've shown off - theirs's really not much in the way of first party titles even announced yet that aren't pure conjecture aside from Elder Scrolls 6/Starfield/Haven and we haven't even established a firm release date on those - could be 2025 for all we know so clearly unless the first party title's release against the grain of what Microsoft has said - we are still stuck waiting on Series X games on PC, let alone first party exclusive titles crossing over.

On the other hand PS5 has factually stated - they won't actually have genre defining next gen games release on that ecosystem until 2022 - and until then Spidey is still undeniably the best looking game out. So you arguement "Consoles Game's don't, cant and never will look better than game's released already on PC" is already flatly debunked.
 

Dibils2k

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Believing in generations doesn't mean giving up the opportunity for easy and massive revenue on the console with the biggest installed base in the world. They never once implied that they would.

No. It isn't news, and I'm genuinely laughing at how whiny you sound about it.
that is literally what believing in generations means 😆😆 ofcourse by believing in generations you lose alot of potential money but thats why it was such a big deal when Sony said that... but now they went back on it and thats news worthy 😆 how are you not getting this through your head

you cant support last gen and say we believe in generations 😆😆 stop being a blibd fanboy

they made the correct financial decision, while trying to pretend like they they weren't... simple as that.

believing in generations would mean GoW Ragnarok and Horizon 2 would not be on PS4, this is facts. so they lied, so it is surprising and news worthy 😐
 
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DeepEnigma

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that is literally what believing in generations means 😆😆 ofcourse by believing in generations you lose alot of potential money but thats why it was such a big deal when Soby said that... but now they went back on and thats news worthy 😆 how are you not getting this through your head

you cant support last gen and say we believe in generations 😆😆 stop beibg a blibd fanboy

they made the correct financial decision, while tryibg to pretend like they weren't... simple as that

'n' key must be brokeb.
 
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Caio

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I smell a new IP from Naughty Dog, at this point it is a MUST :D and I cannot wait !
 

Ten_Fold

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If god of war is actually releasing next year, I can see them making a PS4 version...hopefully not.
 

Abriael_GN

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that is literally what believing in generations means 😆😆 ofcourse by believing in generations you lose alot of potential money but thats why it was such a big deal when Sony said that... but now they went back on it and thats news worthy 😆 how are you not getting this through your head

you cant support last gen and say we believe in generations 😆😆 stop being a blibd fanboy

they made the correct financial decision, while trying to pretend like they they weren't... simple as that.

believing in generations would mean GoW Ragnarok and Horizon 2 would not be on PS4, this is facts. so they lied, so it is surprising and news worthy 😐

Translation of the above: "I will turn my dumb personal interpretation of a sentence into absolute factual reality and anyone who doesn't stick to that dumb personal interpretation of the sentence lied." 😂

Also, "I'll fill my post up with typos and bad grammar so that it'll be painful to read. Maybe they won't bother responding and telling me how silly I am" 😂

Nothing new here. That being said, it is rather hilarious to see someone defending these desperate sensationalist non-news "articles" (quotation marks obligatory) trying so hard to make mountains out of molehills for clicks.
 
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KAL2006

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This is what I expect from Sony

2020
- Spiderman Miles Morales (Cross Gen)
- Sackboy Adventure (Cross Gen)
- Demon's Souls

2021
- Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart
- Returnal
- Destruction All-stars
- Gran Turismo 7
- Horizon 2 (Cross Gen)
- God of War Ragnarok (Cross Gen)
- Last of Us 2 Factions Battle Royale (Cross Gen)

2022
- Ghost of Tsushima: 2nd Assault Expansion (Cross Gen)

2022 Second Half
No more cross gen games

I think we will be getting cross gen going until early 2022. Gran Turismo I don't expect to be cross gen mainly because they will reuse assets from Sport to make the game faster and cheaper. And I think Sony would want to support the game long term and make use of SSD for fast matchmaking. Last of Us 2 Factions is a obvious cross gen game as it would use the same engine, it would also need to have a massive olayerbase as I'm expecting them to take on battle royale so a large user base from PS4 is a must, I also reckon Naughty Dog will release Last of Us 2 Remastered around the same time and bundle in the multiplayer with the PS5 version ala Spiderman Ultimate Edition. God of War being cross gen makes sense as there is too much smoke, short dev time, Jim Ryan not denying it being cross gen. Ghost of Tsushuma singleplayer expansion happening a year after the original makes sense as it's a Sucker Punch tradition (Festival of Blood, First Light), they can just reuse the same map and have a new story with a new playable character.

Sony having so many cross gen games helps them have a loaded 2021 games lineup, I expect some of those would slip to early 2022.
 
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Sub Boss

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im ok with 2021 being (mostly) cross gen, but 2022 should bring the goods.

Simply asking for many games to be next gen only is a little hard at this point in time, companies want the biggest audience possible but the realities of videogame development is far different from the PS2/GC era.
 
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Dibils2k

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Translation of the above: "I will turn my dumb personal interpretation of a sentence into absolute factual reality and anyone who doesn't stick to that dumb personal interpretation of the sentence lied." 😂

Also, "I'll fill my post up with typos and bad grammar so that it'll be painful to read. Maybe they won't bother responding and telling me how silly I am" 😂

Nothing new here. That being said, it is rather hilarious to see someone defending these desperate sensationalist non-news "articles" (quotation marks obligatory) trying so hard to make mountains out of molehills for clicks.
so i guess you expected Ragnarok and Horizon 2 to be on PS4 too few months ago?

all you are defending is a corporate decision that hurts the gamers, and to suggest Sony never misled people would be the most idiotic and ignorant comment i have ever seen... just go back a few months on this forum when Ponys were laughing at MS for supporting Xbox One for 2 years, so dont tell me its ridiculous that the "believe in generations" meant what everyone in the world taught it meant 😆🤡
 
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Dry_Kill_Logic_87

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can't believe people are saying there's no next-gen looking games out anytime soon.
did people forget this is coming early 2021 ?
and I'm not even a R&C fan

 
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Abriael_GN

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so i guess you expected Ragnarok and Horizon 2 to be on PS4 too few months ago?

Absolutely. I actually did NOT expect Demon's souls to be PS5-only.

all you are defending is a corporate decision that hurts the gamers, and to suggest Sony never misled people would be the most idiotic and ignorant comment i have ever seen... just go back a few months on this forum when Ponys were laughing at MS for supporting Xbox One for 2 years, so dont tell me its ridiculous that the "believe in generations" meant what everyone in the world taught it meant 😆🤡

"hurts the gamers?"

Boy, you sound like a politician and a bad one. What's the next crap site you're gonna defend? Kotaku?

No one's going to be "hurt" by cross-platform games, besides the ego of a few irrelevant console warriors with a very short memory.
 
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Dibils2k

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Absolutely. I actually did NOT expect Demon's souls to be PS5-only.



"hurts the gamers?"

Boy, you sound like a politician and a bad one. What's the next crap site you're gonna defend? Kotaku?

No one's going to be "hurt" by cross-platform games, besides the ego of a few irrelevant console warriors with a very short memory.
if you think game design is not being beld back by last gen hardware then we are done here
 
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VFXVeteran

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Listen, you are some guy on a forum that that likes to spout hate rhetoric towards anyone excited about what next gen will deliver graphically - you keep citing cross platform game's that are not in fact anywhere in the same league as first party hardcore hitter's - and then cite better performance on crossplatform specific games - Horizon Zero Dawn could be used in the same manner to show just how shoddy performance is on PC when first party games are in fact finally ported over.

--- snip ---

On the other hand PS5 has factually stated - they won't actually have genre defining next gen games release on that ecosystem until 2022 - and until then Spidey is still undeniably the best looking game out. So you arguement "Consoles Game's don't, cant and never will look better than game's released already on PC" is already flatly debunked.

Again, another person's opinion on what looks good and what doesn't. We can do this all generation. I don't care if you state you game on the PC. That could be a lie. From the way you talk, you must have a really crappy PC..

I like looking at the facts. And the facts are.. the best graphics features are when a developer cranks up all of what they have to offer to the gamer for said game and that game is on a PC GPU w/Ultra settings. YOU may think Spiderman looks the best out of every PC game but MANY other people already marvel over FLIGHT SIM 2020 as the most next-gen looking title to date. And guess what? That game is doing some AMAZING technology! Spiderman MM ??? :messenger_tears_of_joy: :messenger_tears_of_joy: :messenger_tears_of_joy: Yea.. sure.
 

RaySoft

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This is what I expect from Sony

2020
- Spiderman Miles Morales (Cross Gen)
- Sackboy Adventure (Cross Gen)
- Demon's Souls

2021
- Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart
- Returnal
- Destruction All-stars
- Gran Turismo 7
- Horizon 2 (Cross Gen)
- God of War Ragnarok (Cross Gen)
- Last of Us 2 Factions Battle Royale (Cross Gen)

2022
- Ghost of Tsushima: 2nd Assault Expansion (Cross Gen)

2022 Second Half
No more cross gen games

I think we will be getting cross gen going until early 2022. Gran Turismo I don't expect to be cross gen mainly because they will reuse assets from Sport to make the game faster and cheaper. And I think Sony would want to support the game long term and make use of SSD for fast matchmaking. Last of Us 2 Factions is a obvious cross gen game as it would use the same engine, it would also need to have a massive olayerbase as I'm expecting them to take on battle royale so a large user base from PS4 is a must, I also reckon Naughty Dog will release Last of Us 2 Remastered around the same time and bundle in the multiplayer with the PS5 version ala Spiderman Ultimate Edition. God of War being cross gen makes sense as there is too much smoke, short dev time, Jim Ryan not denying it being cross gen. Ghost of Tsushuma singleplayer expansion happening a year after the original makes sense as it's a Sucker Punch tradition (Festival of Blood, First Light), they can just reuse the same map and have a new story with a new playable character.

Sony having so many cross gen games helps them have a loaded 2021 games lineup, I expect some of those would slip to early 2022.
99% agree with you:)
GT7 have been in dev. for quite some time now and I believe that too will end up on the PS4 as well. Your point of reusing Sport assets is probably right, but that just makes it easier to release on PS4 as well. If they somehow end up not pursuing that, it certainly wouldnt be because they couldn't. Good post!
 
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Hezekiah

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Just don't engage too seriously with them sir(madam?). I've met quite a few saying rather absurd stuff, like how GOW is an ultra deep complex RPG because you can do... brawler combos, or how TLoU2 AI is the most amazingly advanced ever ignoring npcs are comically on rails.

People will see what they want to see and taking it too seriously will just eat away at your sanity, until eventually the abyss gazes back at you.
Don't take the people who clearly just want to defend their favorite platform/games seriously, choose to engage with the ones you judge are actually interested or actually know what they're talking about.

Theres a reason why "Don't play chess with pigeons" is a saying.

Again, another person's opinion on what looks good and what doesn't. We can do this all generation. I don't care if you state you game on the PC. That could be a lie. From the way you talk, you must have a really crappy PC..

I like looking at the facts. And the facts are.. the best graphics features are when a developer cranks up all of what they have to offer to the gamer for said game and that game is on a PC GPU w/Ultra settings. YOU may think Spiderman looks the best out of every PC game but MANY other people already marvel over FLIGHT SIM 2020 as the most next-gen looking title to date. And guess what? That game is doing some AMAZING technology! Spiderman MM ??? :messenger_tears_of_joy: :messenger_tears_of_joy: :messenger_tears_of_joy: Yea.. sure.
Speaking of The Last of Us 2, when's it coming out on PC?
 

Guilty_AI

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Speaking of The Last of Us 2, when's it coming out on PC?
No idea why you quoted but: don't know, don't care, game's crap so I wouldn't buy it anyway just like i didn't buy HZD, since its also crap.

With that said, will probably play someday with my cousin who's the one actually interested in it but doesn't know how to play games. She's paying of course.
 
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Nhranaghacon

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Again, another person's opinion on what looks good and what doesn't. We can do this all generation. I don't care if you state you game on the PC. That could be a lie. From the way you talk, you must have a really crappy PC..

I like looking at the facts. And the facts are.. the best graphics features are when a developer cranks up all of what they have to offer to the gamer for said game and that game is on a PC GPU w/Ultra settings. YOU may think Spiderman looks the best out of every PC game but MANY other people already marvel over FLIGHT SIM 2020 as the most next-gen looking title to date. And guess what? That game is doing some AMAZING technology! Spiderman MM ??? :messenger_tears_of_joy: :messenger_tears_of_joy: :messenger_tears_of_joy: Yea.. sure.

I don't care if neogaf think's it vetted you proper, your naming convention is that of some rando looking for internet clout where there is none.

I've cited Flight Sim 2020 in this thread, or perhaps the other one directly -when replying to you specifically - so ... I reminded you of the game - that's not actually a game (which is the point I made when bringing it up) - and it's something I've actually played for 2 decades and I still don't consider a game - it's a sit and watch/adjust plane height then watch more - non game. Glorified Screensaver with minimal player input after flight. Any game that has you literally demands you sit for over 7 minutes (and on multiple occasions, a game where you simply sit and stare at the screen without even issuing a keystroke in order to play at optimal) doing NOTHING, but watching scenery - as a GAMEPLAY feature need's to have it's merit as an actual game reconsidered.

And Spidey is better looking.

It has Ray Tracing on consoles, the only feature that matter's next gen

According to you

But arguably look's better than any actual game that doesn't force you to sit and toggle through camera angles and seriously do nothing for 7 minute stint's.


But forget that, Spidey is the best overall looking game simply according to most review sources available. All who cite it wrongly, as the first next gen entry.

Also, another stunning example and failure of Microsoft game's going crossplatform on release - we currently have Zero next gen examples from Microsoft of Crossplatform first party titles on launch but PC has a psuedo-game/screensaver out in the wild that 10k people in total have bought worldwide to sit and marvel at that has not helped their crossplatform ethos.
 
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VFXVeteran

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I don't care if neogaf think's it vetted you proper, your naming convention is that of some rando looking for internet clout where there is none.

I've cited Flight Sim 2020 in this thread, or perhaps the other one directly -when replying to you specifically - so ... I reminded you of the game - that's not actually a game (which is the point I made when bringing it up) - and it's something I've actually played for 2 decades and I still don't consider a game - it's a sit and watch/adjust plane height then watch more - non game. Glorified Screensaver with minimal player input after flight. Any game that has you literally demands you sit for over 7 minutes (and on multiple occasions, a game where you simply sit and stare at the screen without even issuing a keystroke in order to play at optimal) doing NOTHING, but watching scenery - as a GAMEPLAY feature need's to have it's merit as an actual game reconsidered.

I'm convinced you are NOT a PC gamer at all. Quit hiding behind that veil. You are a straight PS warrior. No one that owns a PC would ever diminish the efforts of FS2020 except a Sony warrior.

And Spidey is better looking.

Well shit! I'm sorry.. I didn't know Spidey was factually better looking.

It has Ray Tracing on consoles, the only feature that matter's next gen

So Spidey has RT reflections so it's better looking because of that. But then Demon Souls has no Rt but it's better looking because.... ?

R&C will be better looking too because it will have RT reflections but the cartoony style won't matter and it won't have as much detailed textures as Demon Souls but it will STILL be better looking right?

So basically every Sony game coming out will be better looking. We all need to throw our devices away and just buy PS5s then. And I'll send a letter out to all the other developers in the world and let them know that they'll never compete with the handful of Sony studios because they don't make Sony exclusive titles so they might as well close up shop.

But forget that, Spidey is the best overall looking game simply according to most review sources available.

No review source has ever stated that Spidey is the best overall looking game ever to come out on any platform. That would get a lot of people fired.

What's sad about all of this is that as the months roll through and the PC starts getting these PS exclusives you cherish so much and those versions will look better than the PS5, you will dismiss the ones that come to PC and cling on to the ones that stay on PS5. Well, you can scratch ND and GG from your list of exclusives..sorry mate.
 
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Nhranaghacon

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Keep calling me a PS5 warrior and we're going to have word's Mr "Obviously I'm a vetted Final Cut Pro After Effects Veteran", you aint nothing.

Problem is I deal in reality and in reality the only actual Game being discussed here is Spidey, not ScreenSaver 2020 once you pass the practice courses.

Personally, it's hard for me in particular to consider any game that asks you to complete practice take off's only so you can enjoy 7 minutes of literally doing nothing
once you hit perfect height/yaw a game. I don't buy games to finish practice courses then sit and stare blankly at the scenery.

And I guess you with your internet ego better go off and get a handful or reviewers fired.

- "Miles Morales" might be the best looking game we see

And that's just a quick non cherry picked google search.

Also, knowing what I know - Demon Souls looks like a remake they rushed out the door in 3 year's time - and the dev team confirmed it. The character's and graphics are yes, wayyyyy better than the original - but could we finally get a game from someone - anyone - that actually offer's 10,000x more polygon's on character asset's - opposed to the Unreal Engine 5 demo shown that show's geometry/statuettes with with infinite detail then goes on to show off abysmal low maintenance/poorly constructed/low poly characters.

This is why I don't consider any games released next gen, the character's could utilize a large increase in poly count - as could the enviroment's which have all only improved slightly. Even the enviroments in Demon Soul's will look abysmal compared to games that maximize poly count's across all asset's once those development's begin.
 
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Gravemind

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If god of war is actually releasing next year, I can see them making a PS4 version...hopefully not.

Wont be enough PS5s out in the wild to warrant making GOWR a PS5 exclusive when they could release to a playerbase of over 100m. It will be on PS4 just like Horizon.
 

DGrayson

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Again, another person's opinion on what looks good and what doesn't. We can do this all generation. I don't care if you state you game on the PC. That could be a lie. From the way you talk, you must have a really crappy PC..

I like looking at the facts. And the facts are.. the best graphics features are when a developer cranks up all of what they have to offer to the gamer for said game and that game is on a PC GPU w/Ultra settings. YOU may think Spiderman looks the best out of every PC game but MANY other people already marvel over FLIGHT SIM 2020 as the most next-gen looking title to date. And guess what? That game is doing some AMAZING technology! Spiderman MM ??? :messenger_tears_of_joy: :messenger_tears_of_joy: :messenger_tears_of_joy: Yea.. sure.

Bro its happening again. Im not going to dig through all these posts but what i see is a PS5 thread, and you talking about PCs technology. Please just refrain from these threads, there are so many great PC threads to discuss in or better yet start your own.
 
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MilkyJoe

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Here, remember that time when I told you all that PlayStation would go cross gen because of covid...
 

supernova8

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The PC has always been the technology driver. All of our conferences that I go to talk about innovation independent of platform. All of the R&D is done on PC hardware. It always has. Most companies (before this new release of AMD cards) bought Nvidia boards and did all of the R&D on them for new graphics techniques. I spent a week at MS back in 2017 to learn their new HoloLens tech. We all used Unity (a multiplatform graphics engine), laptops, Visual Studio, and yep.. Nvidia boards. This is just an example of what actually goes on that 99% of users don't know. So I can honestly tell you that this is what's going on factually. This is not my opinion. This is fact.

Interesting insight thanks! Just wondering (not super related to this discussion), what changed between now/the last 10 years or so compared to back in the earlier days (say, PS1, PS2 and sort of PS3) when consoles were using pretty much custom chips? What caused consoles to end up becoming glorified PCs?

An SSD is going to leverage faster loading first and foremost but then may introduce high bandwidth streaming for higher res assets. But do you really think that's the most important component in technology right now? Can you honestly say that the SSD is more important to a game's visuals than RT?

Well I suppose it depends on how you think of it. If you're talking about the best possible visuals available then sure RT will become more and more important, but I personally don't see it having as profound an impact as something like realistic physics did. To put it differently, I'd say Half Life 2 felt far more "next-gen" than something like Crysis ever did. Crysis to me felt like Far Cry but with a massive new lick of paint. Half Life 2's physics engine was just another level (at the time). Maybe you'd classify that as "game mechanics" but it's all happening on screen and it makes things like more "visually" convincing.

With SSDs yeah loading times are cool but the high speed streaming of assets is pretty exciting. I'm picturing a situation where there really is no more pop in anymore, or the game's design is fundamentally different thanks to the SSD. I don't think any game's fundamental design will change because of RT. The new cake is SSDs and the cherry on top is RT but that's just my humble opinion as a consumer.

New baseline for settings but not overall tech. Since the PC can do more, it lends itself that you'd make better assets, implement the most complex features and then tone them down for the consoles.

Yeah I see your point, but is it not the case that developers have limited time/resources and are not going to spend a disproportionate amount of it on building for a target system that largely doesn't exist? (e.g. in the near future being able to build on the assumption that there is a massive install base of SSD-based consoles)
 
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supernova8

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Sounds to me GT7 might be cross-gen also which would suck but I wouldn’t be surprised.

That’s a game that will make me jump to next-gen.

GT7 is totally going to be cross-gen. Look at the reveal video it even has the exact same cockpit from GT Sport. Realistically they can probably throw it on PS4/PS4 Pro by removing the ray tracing, toning down the texture qualities and increasing load times. There was nothing in the reveal video that screamed "wooooooooooooooooooah" to me.
 

supernova8

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I'd agree with Infamous being a looker and Killzone as well. Driveclub is nice, but most car games are very nice. But, we're talking about "generation defining" and for me the first one was The Order 1886 which was a 2015 relase! Even now that game is a STUNNER! Then Uncharted 4 a year later.

I thought the Order 1886 got shit reviews all round, no? Visually though yeah very nice looking game.
 
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Clear

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Graphics technology isn't nearly as interesting as it used to be, as Carmack said way back when, "the work has mostly been done".

Which isn't to say that progress won't continue to be made, but as pre-rendered photo-realistic imagery has been around for decades now, the push in recent years has been more towards efficiency techniques in real-time generation. A great example of this being innovations like AI upscaling.

Bottom line being that for actual advancement in result, we need to start thinking about more than how many pixels a GPU can push. I mean what Flight Sim 2020 is doing as a program is far less impressive than the photogrammetry techniques and geo-mapping used to create and store its world atlas.
 

VFXVeteran

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Interesting insight thanks! Just wondering (not super related to this discussion), what changed between now/the last 10 years or so compared to back in the earlier days (say, PS1, PS2 and sort of PS3) when consoles were using pretty much custom chips? What caused consoles to end up becoming glorified PCs?

Development time and non-reuse of technology. When Sony went from PS2 to PS3, developers like ND had to rewrite their entire graphics engine and had to learn how to use the new CELL architecture. This was a complete burden on their development teams. After taking several years to master the architecture, Sony turns right around and changes it again. PS4 though addressed not just Sony but all the other AAA studios that complained about making complicated branches of code simply for the PS3. Think about the other studios like Ubisoft, EA, and Dice. They had nice portable code for the Xbox and PC platforms, but struggled with the Sony port. So Sony decided to do away with "secret sauce" custom chips and opted for a more conventional chipset. It allowed much much faster development and less confusing ways to get results from the chipset. Going to PS5 was just an extension of the PS4.. NOW companies like ND can make more money by finally rewriting their graphics engine for good to support the PC and then be allowed the opportunity to make even more money from their hard work. Everyone wins.


With SSDs yeah loading times are cool but the high speed streaming of assets is pretty exciting. I'm picturing a situation where there really is no more pop in anymore, or the game's design is fundamentally different thanks to the SSD. I don't think any game's fundamental design will change because of RT. The new cake is SSDs and the cherry on top is RT but that's just my humble opinion as a consumer.

That is exciting! I can't wait to see UE5 demo put into practice. I'm going to predict the first game to do Nanite will be Hellblade 2 for the PC. Using MS's new DirectStorage API and Nvidia's new SSD->GPU API.

Yeah I see your point, but is it not the case that developers have limited time/resources and are not going to spend a disproportionate amount of it on building for a target system that largely doesn't exist? (e.g. in the near future being able to build on the assumption that there is a massive install base of SSD-based consoles)

Well, it's not really spending time on a platform that's specific. The PC is an agnostic machine so what they do is universal anyway. Think about it. Creating 8k textures won't cost anymore time than if they made 4k textures from the start. Why not throw that on to the PC for added fidelity. Or how about the RT algorithm. If a developer puts the entire RT pipeline within their graphics engine (speaking on 3rd party companies), it'll work with any platform since they are using DirectX and Vulkan( or PS custom API which is very similar to Vulkan). In that sense, there really is no custom stuff at all since it's designed for the entire graphic engine and not just the game. When I'm coding in the Unreal engine, I never worry about this feature not working properly for a specific platform because the shader code is universal. It works in Unreal or it can be ported to any simple OpenGL application.
 
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Sander Cohen

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GT7 is totally going to be cross-gen. Look at the reveal video it even has the exact same cockpit from GT Sport. Realistically they can probably throw it on PS4/PS4 Pro by removing the ray tracing, toning down the texture qualities and increasing load times. There was nothing in the reveal video that screamed "wooooooooooooooooooah" to me.
And same HUD which irks me the most. It looked like prettier GT Sport.
 

supernova8

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Development time and non-reuse of technology. When Sony went from PS2 to PS3, developers like ND had to rewrite their entire graphics engine and had to learn how to use the new CELL architecture. This was a complete burden on their development teams. After taking several years to master the architecture, Sony turns right around and changes it again. PS4 though addressed not just Sony but all the other AAA studios that complained about making complicated branches of code simply for the PS3. Think about the other studios like Ubisoft, EA, and Dice. They had nice portable code for the Xbox and PC platforms, but struggled with the Sony port. So Sony decided to do away with "secret sauce" custom chips and opted for a more conventional chipset. It allowed much much faster development and less confusing ways to get results from the chipset. Going to PS5 was just an extension of the PS4.. NOW companies like ND can make more money by finally rewriting their graphics engine for good to support the PC and then be allowed the opportunity to make even more money from their hard work. Everyone wins.

Oh yeah funny reference point - so many people Digital Foundry are Sony fanboys but they forget that the early DF videos were just them shitting all over the PS3 versions of multiplats.

That is exciting! I can't wait to see UE5 demo put into practice. I'm going to predict the first game to do Nanite will be Hellblade 2 for the PC. Using MS's new DirectStorage API and Nvidia's new SSD->GPU API.

Yeah the Hellblade visuals (especially the face) are what I would consider "next-gen" but it also seems too good to be true. I'm of course totally open (and hoping) to be proven wrong though. Maybe it'll be one of the early titles where an SSD is part of the system requirements.

Well, it's not really spending time on a platform that's specific. The PC is an agnostic machine so what they do is universal anyway. Think about it. Creating 8k textures won't cost anymore time than if they made 4k textures from the start. Why not throw that on to the PC for added fidelity. Or how about the RT algorithm. If a developer puts the entire RT pipeline within their graphics engine (speaking on 3rd party companies), it'll work with any platform since they are using DirectX and Vulkan( or PS custom API which is very similar to Vulkan). In that sense, there really is no custom stuff at all since it's designed for the entire graphic engine and not just the game. When I'm coding in the Unreal engine, I never worry about this feature not working properly for a specific platform because the shader code is universal. It works in Unreal or it can be ported to any simple OpenGL application.

I'll admit some of that went over my head but point taken on the idea that they are already making high quality assets and shrinking them down (LOD is it?).