PlayStation Plus has lost 1.9 million subscribers since relaunch; revenue is up, however

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Subscriptions growth in consoles typically is linked to sales, so PS Plus has been stagnant when console sales have been stagnant due to chips shortage.



Next quarter console sales will start to skyrocket so PS Plus will go back to grow again. They make a ton of billions per year and this quarter their game sub made more money than it ever did (or any other game sub from MS and Nintendo).

So yes, Sony execs don't give a fuck about having lost temporally 2M subs because they have over 45M subs paying on average more than before and in addition to the game subs they make a shit ton of revenue and profit with other things.
You got lower lows happening. The 45M sub count is what it was over two years ago.

Your chart shows Q1-Q3 in the past few years having increased sub count. But this year going from Q1 to Q2 it's already on the down trend losing 2M.
 

yurinka

Member
You got lower lows happening. The 45M sub count is what it was over two years ago.

Your chart shows Q1-Q3 in the past few years having increased sub count. But this year going from Q1 to Q2 it's already on the down trend losing 2M.
Yes, the game subs is stuck since around 2 years ago because the console sales are stuck since around 2 years ago.

Apparently starting this Q3 they'll start being able to sell consoles normally again, so it will continue growing in game subs again.

And the revenues of the service will grow even more than they did this quarter pushing the all time record for a console game sub even higher.
 
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nocsi

Member
The more important question is whether those 2 million subscribers are gone forever or will return over time. I was a Ps+ subscriber for years. I let Ps+ expire and I find all these new versions of it very confusing and also way too expensive.
Likely gone, but will be replaced with new subscribers. I'm guessing the 2 million subscribers was from dying of COVID - considering 6.6 million people died globally.
 

DaGwaphics

Member
I think the market for those games probably has very little use for PS+ Extra honestly - thinking back to when the PS4 launched, none of the 8 F2P games in that list I mentioned existed, it was quite a different world. Over the course of the last generation these types of games have become more and more popular and I'm kinda surprised their PS+ numbers didn't fall faster. Might have a lot to do with people buying a year at a time.

Possibly. Plus, Sony lets you stack like 8yrs at a time. Some users might have really stocked up on BF or a low priced CD Keys offer or something like that.
 

Hoppa

Member
Good. It sucks. I feel bad for contributing as I upgraded (at a discount) to the new subscription model but there is no way in hell I’m renewing when it expires
 

Codeblew

Member
As a cheap ass gamer, I think the extra tier is a great value. It actually saves me money in the long run. Not really interested in the premium tier offerings over extra.
 
I'd agree with this sentiment if Sony hadn't provided several examples of it simply not doing this. Increasing its game prices by 25% in my country for nothing, raising the price of its hardware in my country after release when no one else did, locking (poor) emulation behind an expensive subscription, several low effort re-releases to "justify" full-priced PS5 titles. From my perspective, Sony isn't providing value, it's just ringing as much money from its customers as possible. PlayStation's current administration is simply cashing in on the hard work done by prior PlayStation teams. That's all well and good for their immediate bonuses, but they're potentially hurting the long term prospects of the brand. If they stay the course, towards the end of this generation the brand will be known for "pay more for less" instead of "For the Players". The current admin will jettison, pocket their parachute cash, and leave another team to clean up.

You can feel that way, but understand that there are always economic factors driving these decisions, it's never as simple as "this company wants to screw me over".

>Game Prices Increase: 3P publishers were already wanting to do this, and the MSRP for full retail prices has already stagnated at $60 for two generations despite increasing costs in game development. For every gen prior to 7th gen, the average game price was increasing post- PS1/Saturn, and in the case of those two systems, the average cost actually dropped due to a switch to a new storage medium (CDs).

We haven't seen any such switch in storage mediums since 7th gen and yet game production costs keep increasing. A nominal increase by $10 was probably inevitable, and now there's the thought Microsoft could be considering their own increases as soon as Q1 2023.

>Console Price Increase: Blame that on the fluctuations in currency exchange and the fact that Sony are a fraction of the size of MS and can't just bleed costs on console hardware, and they don't have console tech three gens behind the way Nintendo does with Switch so they can't price the hardware reasonably while having a fat profit margin off the console itself.

>Emulation Behind PS+ Premium: I agree that Sony could be doing a lot better on this front, so no disagreements there.

>Remakes/Remasters: Welp, the value depends on the person looking at it. And apparently enough people see value in things like TLOU Part 1 Remake to have it chart NPD in the Top 5 for its debut month.

As to the rest of your comment, the irony is that we may have some similar agreement on the general notion, but probably have VERY different things driving those opinions in spite of generally having that agreement. To me, Sony not prioritizing their core constituency (PlayStation console owners) is what would cause long-term prospects to dry up, and if they push too much into PC (and to a lesser extent, mobile) to where more PS owners look over there and see the value that way (better graphics options, higher framerates, free online, mod support, KB&M support, etc.) that they don't see on PlayStation (because of lack of balance or focus on Sony's part), THAT is what would cause what you claim could end up happening, IMO.

But that gets into a whole different kind of conversation...

Where does it say in the chart profit is up for sub plans?

I'm going with the general notion that profit margins are up because services revenue is up in spite of the sub count dropoff, and we know Extra & Premium/Deluxe cost more to sub to than Essentials.

The costs for implementing and operating the higher tiers is absolutely not proportional to the price increase for the end customer to pay for them, but the profit margins at the higher tiers likely scale much more linearly at a locked ratio with the sub cost itself, therefore profits for them off PS+ as a whole is likely up considering the revenue increase from that segment.
 
They lost 2 million subscribers. They will be anything but happy with these figures. I find it funny how many downplay it here.

I find it funny the amount of people downplaying how well the service is doing overall year on year.

In any console war, I have never seen someone doing their best to claim losing millions of product x (in this case sub plans) is a good thing and part of the company's master plan.

Simply amazing.

Just watch. If sub plans pick up and cross 50M, suddenly the status quo 45M isnt the strategy anymore and growth mode to 50M is better.

Don't be silly. No one is claiming it's a good thing. It's as simple as understanding why they are down 4%.........and how the increase in revenue is the much bigger deal at the moment. Of course Sony wants more subs, but in the grand scheme of things they are doing better than ever.



A big percentage of the subs are also tied to PS5 sales....and with the supply chain issues we know how that's been going. With that easing up now, the interesting numbers will come next year.
 

Chukhopops

Member
Tell me again that PS advertised their subscription service anywhere near the level MS advertised GP? Go on because that's the point you were refuting weren't you? No good crying now after making yourself look stupid.
I won’t tell you that cause that wasn’t your initial argument, you didn’t mention GP at all, you just said it hasn’t been advertised « properly ». And then surprise surprise you change your argument after being shown wrong.

It’s ok.
 
I let my PSN sub die, which disincentivized me from picking up a PS5. Once this useless $1 conversion GamePass bleeds out in another couple of years (OMG WHAT A DEAL I WAS GETTING) I can let Xbox pass Into the West as well.
 

ahtlas7

Member
Sony has not reached saturation so a decline in subscribers this early is not a good indicator. Potentially this could be a correction after the new plans release but watch out for a negative trend. 1.9 mil is a big lose when they should be growing.
 

Raven117

Member
I let my PSN sub die, which disincentivized me from picking up a PS5. Once this useless $1 conversion GamePass bleeds out in another couple of years (OMG WHAT A DEAL I WAS GETTING) I can let Xbox pass Into the West as well.
Is the conversation thing over now?
 

ergem

Member
As good guy Phil rightly puts it: "at some point you’ve reached everybody on console that wants to subscribe."

PS+ will hover around 40-50 million going forward. Around 10%-15% of total revenue as Phil Spencer predicts. Since Xbox has around half the audience of playstation, gamepass/gold will probably hover around 20-30 million subs going forward.

The good thing is that these sub services will not supplant the way most gamers consume games. Game developers will not be beholden by subscription because they can still expect their games to sell among the majority who will not sub to these services. Like many have predicted, an all-you-can-play sub service has limited audience. Most gamers would simply want to consume/buy games they want.
 
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John Wick

Member
I won’t tell you that cause that wasn’t your initial argument, you didn’t mention GP at all, you just said it hasn’t been advertised « properly ». And then surprise surprise you change your argument after being shown wrong.

It’s ok.
"Lmfao. Sony haven't even promoted the service properly like Xbox."
You thick b.....d what does that refer to then?
Did it refer to Windows or Cloud?
Some proper clowns on here.
 

Malcolm9

Member
Even if you sub to Essential it's good value, especially with the likes of Nioh 2 as one of the monthly games this month. At least Sony still offersomething decent compared to the shite GwG has been serving.
 
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zombrex

Member
Honestly, I will be ready to join them soon.
There were some disgusting tactics on the EU store side such as hiding and burying all the free monthly games for the basic tier, obviously in an attempt to push the higher tiers.
Was extremely frustrating at the time.
 
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Three

Member
Sony had the gall to put up game demos as their PS5 title, they mostly still refuse to put proven GOTY titles in the service and when they do, it's always the PS4 version without the PS5 upgrade.
Where is this coming from?
PS+ Extra/Premium got

Miles Morales PS5
Demon's Souls PS5
Returnal PS5
Ghost of Tsushima directors cut PS5
Death Stranding directors cut PS5
God of War (free PS5 patch)
Crash Bandicoot 4 PS5
Stray
Assassin's Creed (Valhalla PS5 + a lot of the others)
Final Fantasy Remake Intergrade (PS5)
HZD
Days Gone

What proven GOTY did you want? Which ones were PS4 versions? Returnal won GOTY awards. Obviously HFW was the demo you aren’t going to get HFW, GT7 or Ragnarok. It had a solid lineup and people converted but unfortunately the subscribers did not go up. Game sales were good though which is nice.
 
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Three

Member
Extra/Premium is.a very recent service upgrade that probably does very little to the subscription numbers so far.
I was obviously talking about the classic Plus service.
Oh, OK fair enough.
From the top of my mind, Ghost of Tsushima and Final Fantasy 7 Intergrade.
'Integrade' is specifically the PS5 version. Ghost of Tsushima got the directors cut which is the PS5 version. The PS+ classic version before premium and extra was Ghost of Tsushima: Legends, the online game (it was a bonus game) .
 
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phil_t98

Member
Where is this coming from?
PS+ Extra/Premium got

Miles Morales PS5
Demon's Souls PS5
Returnal PS5
Ghost of Tsushima directors cut PS5
Death Stranding directors cut PS5
God of War (free PS5 patch)
Crash Bandicoot 4 PS5
Stray
Assassin's Creed (Valhalla PS5 + a lot of the others)
Final Fantasy Remake Intergrade (PS5)
HZD
Days Gone

What proven GOTY did you want? Which ones were PS4 versions? Returnal won GOTY awards. Obviously HFW was the demo you aren’t going to get HFW, GT7 or Ragnarok. It had a solid lineup and people converted but unfortunately the subscribers did not go up. Game sales were good though which is nice.

crash, assassins creed, final fantasy isn't Sonys game. can't give them credit for putting other peoples games on there when they could do more with their own catalog
 

Three

Member
crash, assassins creed, final fantasy isn't Sonys game. can't give them credit for putting other peoples games on there when they could do more with their own catalog
Like what? They had to pay to get those games on to the service. I'm not giving them credit for creating the games am I, I'm talking about games offered on their service.
 

phil_t98

Member
Like what? They had to pay to get those games on to the service. I'm not giving them credit for creating the games am I, I'm talking about games offered on their service.

gamepass os still the better service at the moment, I have both gamepass and PS+ premium and Sony need to up their game. they should have a lot more on there.

get my PS5 next week so looking forward to trying PS5 versions of games
 

TTOOLL

Member
LOL Polygon at least you could read the full story before making your own "article".

https://www.sony.com/en/SonyInfo/IR/library/presen/er/pdf/22q2_sonyspeech.pdf

Sony gave the reason for this, not only the covid restricrions are over but the PS4 installed base is becoming inactive and less enagaged because it's an old console while of course the PS5 installed based is super engaged.
If they can't improve PS5 sales quickly it is hard to grow subscription numbers as well. More PS4 old users become disengaged than the number of users they get through PS5 sales.
Hence why selling hardware is important.

I fit the criteria perfectly. Can’t get a PS5 now because I don’t have a lot of time to play so I can’t justify spending the money. My PS4 is the box.
 

Three

Member
gamepass os still the better service at the moment, I have both gamepass and PS+ premium and Sony need to up their game. they should have a lot more on there.

get my PS5 next week so looking forward to trying PS5 versions of games
So let me get this straight. Out of nowhere you find it a problem that I mentioned third party games on PS+ extra this year and you're bringing up gamepass which had the most baron first party offering ever. Ok.
 

phil_t98

Member
So let me get this straight. Out of nowhere you find it a problem that I mentioned third party games on PS+ extra this year and you're bringing up gamepass which had the most baron first party offering ever. Ok.

Sony have amazing first part titles and can do better at getting them on simple as that. they could also do better with third party titles too. they have lost 2 million customers so something can be improved
 

Three

Member
Sony have amazing first part titles and can do better at getting them on simple as that. they could also do better with third party titles too. they have lost 2 million customers so something can be improved
Most of their amazing first party titles are on there. Just find it funny that you have the gall to say

"crash, assassins creed, final fantasy isn't Sonys game. can't give them credit for putting other peoples games on there"

Then bring up gamepass. It's clear what this is about for you.
 
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phil_t98

Member
Most their amazing first party titles ars on there. Just find it funny that you have the gal to say

"crash, assassins creed, final fantasy isn't Sonys game. can't give them credit for putting other peoples games on there"

Then bring up gamepass as being better. It's clear what this is about for you.


do you think gamepass isn't the better deal then?
 

MikeM

Member
If you like burning money why not. There is zero reason to play any multiplayer game on your PS5 instead of your PC.
I have plenty of MP games on PS5 that I still play. Not gonna rebuy them on PC.

Plus PS drops great games on Essential. Got Nioh 2 for me and Lego Harry Potter for the kids.
 

Three

Member
do you think gamepass isn't the better deal then?
Personally no, not this year. Especially for somebody who wasn't in the sony ecosystem before but that's not the point. The point was you trying to say third party games don't count on the service then bring up gamepass which has little to no first party releases. If you think they should have no credit because it's third party games why does gamepass deserve it instead?
 
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phil_t98

Member
Personally no, not this year. Especially for somebody who wasn't in the sony ecosystem before but that's not the point. The point was you trying to say third party games don't count on the service then bring up gamepass which has little to no first party releases.

I said you can't give them praise for it, they could be working harder to get more on there. including their own games.

the classic section could be much improved to and adding more than they do each month, one of my main reasons for getting it

you may have a point with not this year due to shortage of Microsoft games but with their games hitting day 1 its better value.

I have PS+ premium and loved stray and would love to see more new games come to the service. it isn't a bad thing to criticise Sony and wanting them to do better you know.

I am on the service and will renew when the time comes
 
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Ev1L AuRoN

Member
I think that game pass gave people some insane value and that warp their perception of what such a service must be. Sony won't give their massive games day one, first because they don't need it, people really want those games and will buy them full price. Second, in order to keep giving us such experiences Sony needs the money, unlike Microsoft that can burn money indefinitely to get rid of the competition, Sony and Nintendo must always consider the health of their business.
Following Microsoft model would be a mistake, and I think most Playstation fans knows it. As long as Sony keep making great games, I don't mind paying for them. Game pass is really an amazing deal, but that won't make me subscribe all year long, I usually subscribe for a month every time something new that a want to play launches, I keep getting deals to come back, I can't remember the last time I paid full price on the subscription. Call me cheap but I don't think Microsoft strategy is working wonders for them too.
 

Clear

Member
Don’t blame Sony.

Blame the company that started the paid online service, that Sony ended up copying. Microsoft.

Lets not forget who started the inclusion of "free" games as part of monthly subs, arguably the part with the most added value. Not to mention the ones who never paywalled F2P apps.
 

Hayabusa83

Member
Imagine paying a subscription just for the privilege to play games you bought two decades ago. Sony can fuck off lol
 
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yurinka

Member
Sony has not reached saturation so a decline in subscribers this early is not a good indicator. Potentially this could be a correction after the new plans release but watch out for a negative trend. 1.9 mil is a big lose when they should be growing.
This quarter Sony broke the all time revenue in a quarter record for a game sub available in console. This is a great indicator that shows that with the new PS Plus achieved their main goal: increasing the ARPU. You have to remember that they lost 2M but still have 45M that now in average pay more.

New console sales come with game subs and with big MP game. They got stuck with console sales during lack of chips during two years, and game subs got stuck too. But they just releasing the fastest selling CoD on PS ever and apparently got enough chips to sell a shit ton of consoles during Q3, in fact they saved over 3M manufactured consoles in Q2 for Q3.

Summer (Q2) typically is a weak season for game and console sales, while fall/Q3 is the strongest part of the year. We'll see a grow in games, consoles and subs this Q3, make sure they'll get more than these 2M subs. Looking at the Sony report they built a huge inventory this quarter and months ago said that starting at this part of the year they'd start to solve the chips issue, meaning that the big console sales very likely won't be limited to this quarter, but will continue in the other ones because there's a lot of demand to satisfy. So very likely subs will grow the next quarters too.
 
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yurinka

Member
crash, assassins creed, final fantasy isn't Sonys game. can't give them credit for putting other peoples games on there when they could do more with their own catalog
What games of their own catalog do you miss there? They obviously don't have their full catalog of 1st and 2nd party games, but have a good chunk of them including some of the newer ones (outside obviously day one releases or very recent) with stuff like Returnal or Tsushima.
 
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