PlayStation Plus has lost 1.9 million subscribers since relaunch; revenue is up, however

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
FYI this is the guy who announced a Switch Pro for last summer, BOTW 2 in 2022 and the acquisition of Square Enix « this week » in May 2022. Don’t know why anyone would quote him for anything at all.
All he is doing is quoting from the Sony release themselves.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
So where is the Bloodborne or Demon Souls pc release date? I been waiting for almost 10 years......


Where is the list of Sony games beyond 2022 coming to PC? People must be ignoring how covid and the console shortage forced Sony to release these games on PC, because they've made LESS THAN 600 MILLION since Days Gone released. Thats after 4-5 games. We have yet to see the reward Sony gets from porting their singleplayer games to PC.

This is still a business. The potential of making more money by keeping the game on console still remains, where as PC players wont buy unless it 50.00 or less and releases day one with all the DLC, lol. Good luck on waiting for Bloodbornre or Demon Souls remake with those expectations. Its more likey those upcoming playstation ports you think of are from the GAAS/ F2P titles they planned to make. In that case, I hope they all make it to PC as well.

Yeah, Im sure Sony doent like the idea of Bloodborne or Demon Souls being pirated by Fromsoft fans and xbox console owners to spite Sony because their games have been exclusive to playstion for a decade. They arent stupid. Yall going to have to buy and play Sack Boys big adventure to show Sony how bad you really want their games, because these aint F2P/Mobile MTX looters.
PC ports are free money. The typical PC gamer isn’t going to bail ship, sell their PC and buy into the PS ecosystem no matter how many exclusives there are.

If exclusive console games are such a giant draw, all the PC gamers would had converted to consoles the past 30 years.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
PC ports are free money. The typical PC gamer isn’t going to bail ship, sell their PC and buy into the PS ecosystem no matter how many exclusives there are.

If exclusive console games are such a giant draw, all the PC gamers would had converted to consoles the past 30 years.
No, but a lot of PC gamers do console game as well getting the best of both worlds. Nobody has to "jump ship" in such tribal theatrics.

I was PC gaming exclusively in the early to mid/late 2000's until I had to get back into consoles for competent baseball games. Then stayed with them for great exclusives for the best of both worlds.
 
Last edited:

The Alien

Member
To drum up some additional subs, they can run some promos.

Maybe give the first month away for $1.
Get 'em in there. I dunno...something like that.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
You can still buy the normal PlayStation store cards at Costco / sams / BJ’s for a discount (around $10 off per $100) fwiw.
That’s how I buy all my Xbox money cards and gold memberships. Why pay full price. I’m at Costco once every couple weeks anyway. Cheapest around. Load in the money and do the GP promo trick. I’d do the same when I buy my nieces Nintendo vouchers.

Way back Costco used to dump 12 month gold memberships for around $37 CDN. I’d get two at a time.
 
Last edited:

fart town usa

Gold Member
There's also inflation up the wazoo and PS+ would be the first to go if I wasn't as fortunate as I am.

I think it's a solid service and I wasn't even planning on upgrading to the top tier when the relaunch went live. There's a lot of games on there and I'm someone who generally doesn't play 98% of the things that release. People who play through everything have access to a ton of killer stuff.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
No, but a lot of PC gamers do console game as well getting the best of both worlds. Nobody has to "jump ship" in such tribal theatrics.

I was PC gaming exclusively in the early to mid/late 2000's until I had to get back into consoles for competent baseball games. Then stayed with them for great exclusives for the best of both worlds.
No doubt gamers can be multi platform. But if Sony is releasing lots of games on PC now, they must had done there math showing the net profits from PC outweigh any loss.

It’s no different than manufacturers spreading the products to more and more stores. Warehouse clubs like Costco have the slimmest profit margins. But the sales potential is huge and the overall sales go up since not everyone is going to convert buying it at Costco or other US club stores keeping the unit sales the same but at worse margin.
 
Love how the spin is that they lost 1.9 million subscribers, and not that they had record revenue for the exact same service. Narratives, how do they work?
Well the same was said when it was reported that Game pass failed to meet growth numbers over reporting growth increased 20%+. Spin is part of the game. Of course both companies will be perfectly fine and Sony still has the largest number of game service subscribers on consoles. Overall it's a win for them.
 

pasterpl

Member
So Sony lost subscribers on launch of their sub service while gamepass grew 29% and this is somehow loss to ms. There is only one winner in the gaming subscription market. Ms missing the target was probably due the big game delayed to 2023. Next year gamepass will probably have redfall, starfield, COD, Diablo and couple other games added so that growth target might be even more ambitious for the next year.
 

nikos

Member
I was on PSN the day it launched and subscribed to whichever premium service existed, including Qore.

My Plus membership lapsed right before the new model released and I didn't end up renewing, mostly because I've barely touched my PS5.
 

GhostOfTsu

Member
So Sony lost subscribers on launch of their sub service while gamepass grew 29% and this is somehow loss to ms. There is only one winner in the gaming subscription market. Ms missing the target was probably due the big game delayed to 2023. Next year gamepass will probably have redfall, starfield, COD, Diablo and couple other games added so that growth target might be even more ambitious for the next year.
Another one that didn't understand 🙄

The 28% GP subs was from june 2021 to june 2022 so last fiscal year (Halo/Forza not Starfield). The Sony numbers are from July 1 to September 30 2022, one quarter only. It's not the same period.

I wouldn't be surprised if GP also went down this summer (end of covid).
 
Last edited:

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Another one that didn't understand 🙄

The 28% GP subs was from june 2021 to june 2022 so last fiscal year (Halo/Forza not Starfield). The Sony numbers are from July 1 to September 30 2022, one quarter only. It's not the same period.

I wouldn't be surprised if GP also went down this summer (end of covid).
Sony losing 1.9M subs in one quarter is even worse. Just imagine what it could be down the line.

What’s Sonys sub plan growth year over year? GP is +28%.
 

GhostOfTsu

Member
Sony losing 1.9M subs in one quarter is even worse. Just imagine what it could be down the line.

What’s Sonys sub plan growth year over year? GP is +28%.
I don't think they want to grow, they know they reached saturation but if you look at the slide PS+ also went up to 48 millions during the same period GP went up 28%.

 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
I don't think they want to grow, they know they reached saturation but if you look at the slide PS+ also went up to 48 millions during the same period GP went up 28%.






I’m zooming in my phone and can’t tell where you say it was growing at 48M.

It looks like the loss of 1.9M quarter over quarter is the the same amount vs Q2 last year as it was about 47M too.

It looks like they grown about 1M subs since their Q1 2021 which is only 2%.

As for Sony not wanting to grow sub plans gimme a break. Only reason you are saying that is because PS subs have barely budged.
 

AGRacing

Member
How much of this extra revenue is from people who now KNOW they shouldn't have bought Premium for a year on its potential alone...

So what's Sony gonna do? Throw you 4 PS2 games in July 2023 to make you bite again?
 
Sony losing 1.9M subs in one quarter is even worse. Just imagine what it could be down the line.

What’s Sonys sub plan growth year over year? GP is +28%.

+ 28% with AGGRESSIVE AF marketing pushes, bundles with other providers (i.e Verizon wireless), deals, and most of that coming from PC GamePass which always had a very low amount of subs compared to Xbox GamePass and where there are current 3-month free trail deals ongoing at the time of this comment.

With those factors, 28% growth is not only realistic, it might be cutting the number short. But it's obviously not a strategy that produces a lot of revenue or profit off the service, something you are conveniently ignoring has actually gone up for Sony's services since the PS+ structural revamp.

Well the same was said when it was reported that Game pass failed to meet growth numbers over reporting growth increased 20%+. Spin is part of the game. Of course both companies will be perfectly fine and Sony still has the largest number of game service subscribers on consoles. Overall it's a win for them.

The difference is that MS are very aggressive on pushing a sub model; Sony isn't. The 73% growth was only pertaining to Satya's bonus salary cut, and only accounts for 5% of his total salary anyway, so that was never a realistic growth goal for GamePass.

However, 28% growth is likely under their internal estimates, and considering the switch in pushing GamePass from the console to PC is kind of proof of this. I figure their internal growth goal was probably around 50%, so getting only a little over half of that is probably still disappointing to them.
 
Last edited:

phil_t98

Member
Another one that didn't understand 🙄

The 28% GP subs was from june 2021 to june 2022 so last fiscal year (Halo/Forza not Starfield). The Sony numbers are from July 1 to September 30 2022, one quarter only. It's not the same period.

I wouldn't be surprised if GP also went down this summer (end of covid).

Did you not see the statement the other day, gamepass is still growing. Not at the rate they want it but it’s still growing
 

ZehDon

Member
This appears to fit into Sony's current strategy: make more money from fewer customers. Increasing the cost of their games by 25% (in Australia), for example, means they'll sell fewer copies but make more money per title sold. I wonder if Sony's pivot to GaaS titles is a part of this shift in focus as well; GaaS are famous for making the majority of their revenue from a minority of their player bases.
 
This appears to fit into Sony's current strategy: make more money from fewer customers. Increasing the cost of their games by 25% (in Australia), for example, means they'll sell fewer copies but make more money per title sold. I wonder if Sony's pivot to GaaS titles is a part of this shift in focus as well; GaaS are famous for making the majority of their revenue from a minority of their player bases.

Well, when they said they were paying attention to Nintendo closely, they meant a lot of things. Maximizing ARPU was one of those. FWIW, Apple have a similar motto, given their share of the smartphone market is not as large as Android's and has remained relatively flat for years now.

But since their ARPU is much higher than that of any Android device's ecosystem, they're doing well more than enough in terms of revenue and profit even with that fact. Some companies reach a point where they don't need to keep growing their install bases or total user sizes to gain revenue and net profits, Sony maybe feels like they've come to that point WRT PlayStation as a brand.

They will obviously want install base growth in certain emerging markets, but the ARPU in those markets will be much lower by comparison because it in part has to reflect the typical median incomes and economic realities of those markets plus what government bodies will or won't allow them to do WRT price competitiveness. Not to mention, the cuts some of those markets will want can be exuberantly high.

So for a division like PlayStation it probably makes a lot more sense to treat those specific growth goals as secondary and instead finding ways to provide value for your install base that they'll want to pay extra for as the primary way to grow your revenue and profit margins.
 

DenchDeckard

Gold Member
I don't think they want to grow, they know they reached saturation but if you look at the slide PS+ also went up to 48 millions during the same period GP went up 28%.


You don't think Sony want to grow playstation plus?....really, you really believe that?
 

Thirty7ven

Sony make cringe trainers.
You don't think Sony want to grow playstation plus?....really, you really believe that?

Sony’s CEO was very specific when he said the goal was not to focus on growing their userbase but to incentivize higher spending. Seems to me he knew we are in a post Covid world heading into a recession.

You also have Phil Spencer downplaying the idea of gamepass growth on consoles.

Maybe listen to the folks who have to strategize years in advance instead of forum posters who go apeshit over every single thing every day.
 

Chukhopops

Member
Lmfao. Sony haven't even promoted the service properly like Xbox. Wait till they start offering deals and improved games catalogue. You should be the last one commenting considering Xbox haven't even met the expectations of their service two years in a row with massive promotions and discounts. Talk about being a fanboy...........

Coming up next: an argument about what « properly » means and how this ad was barely used anywhere.
 

John Wick

Member

Coming up next: an argument about what « properly » means and how this ad was barely used anywhere.
So are you telling me that Sony have promoted their service anywhere near the level of MS?
Clearly your deluded because the best you could come up with was one advert > MS promoting theirs left right and centre and offering staggering discounts. Try harder your making yourself look stupid.
 

GhostOfTsu

Member
You don't think Sony want to grow playstation plus?....really, you really believe that?
Grow from where? People ditched their PS4s, the thousands of people who were on PS Now only (with no PS+) didn't bother signing up. PC streaming is now the most expensive tier. They're lucky if they get 1 million PC users who sign up for that.

The only way to grow is to sale PS5s. They have a huge target so they might go back to Covid numbers eventually.
 

ToTTenTranz

Gold Member
Considering how terrible the Plus lineup has been during 2021 and 2022, this loss of subscribers only surprises me by the positive.
Sony had the gall to put up game demos as their PS5 title, they mostly still refuse to put proven GOTY titles in the service and when they do, it's always the PS4 version without the PS5 upgrade.

If anything, Sony is learning they can have a crappy Plus service because it's more profitable to them.
 

Chukhopops

Member
So are you telling me that Sony have promoted their service anywhere near the level of MS?
Clearly your deluded because the best you could come up with was one advert > MS promoting theirs left right and centre and offering staggering discounts. Try harder your making yourself look stupid.
You seem a bit mad? This ad was everywhere on YT / Twitch a couple months ago on anything gaming related.

They also did the free trial back in June and in store advertising at least in France. But I agree with you they kinda forgot the games part.

I’ll leave you to cope by insulting me again if it helps you get over it…
 

Bojanglez

The Amiga Brotherhood
So Sony lost subscribers on launch of their sub service while gamepass grew 29% and this is somehow loss to ms. There is only one winner in the gaming subscription market. Ms missing the target was probably due the big game delayed to 2023. Next year gamepass will probably have redfall, starfield, COD, Diablo and couple other games added so that growth target might be even more ambitious for the next year.
I don't think you can just look at % increases and losses in isolation and declare a 'winner'

Who has most revenue?
Who makes more profit?
Who has more subscribers?
Who makes more money on their first party games, on top of their subscription?

All those kind of things come into it surely? I honestly don't know the answers to those above.
 

SLB1904

Banned
Ouch that's rough. I wonder if they are meeting expectations.
I think they are fine. They just had the best quarter ever. If they wanted to take a loss. They just need to release their games on the subscription. Clearly isn't their priority
 

ZehDon

Member
... So for a division like PlayStation it probably makes a lot more sense to... provide value for your install base that they'll want to pay extra for as the primary way to grow your revenue and profit margins.
I'd agree with this sentiment if Sony hadn't provided several examples of it simply not doing this. Increasing its game prices by 25% in my country for nothing, raising the price of its hardware in my country after release when no one else did, locking (poor) emulation behind an expensive subscription, several low effort re-releases to "justify" full-priced PS5 titles. From my perspective, Sony isn't providing value, it's just ringing as much money from its customers as possible. PlayStation's current administration is simply cashing in on the hard work done by prior PlayStation teams. That's all well and good for their immediate bonuses, but they're potentially hurting the long term prospects of the brand. If they stay the course, towards the end of this generation the brand will be known for "pay more for less" instead of "For the Players". The current admin will jettison, pocket their parachute cash, and leave another team to clean up.
 
Last edited:
Subs were shrinking before the PS5 came out, and then started gaining again as people brought subs for their new PS5's. These numbers are going to flunctuate.

Let me know if Sony actually loses a real high number of subs, like 5 million or more, and then maybe this might be news, but right now this article looks like clickbait.
 

John Wick

Member
You seem a bit mad? This ad was everywhere on YT / Twitch a couple months ago on anything gaming related.

They also did the free trial back in June and in store advertising at least in France. But I agree with you they kinda forgot the games part.

I’ll leave you to cope by insulting me again if it helps you get over it…
Tell me again that PS advertised their subscription service anywhere near the level MS advertised GP? Go on because that's the point you were refuting weren't you? No good crying now after making yourself look stupid.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
+ 28% with AGGRESSIVE AF marketing pushes, bundles with other providers (i.e Verizon wireless), deals, and most of that coming from PC GamePass which always had a very low amount of subs compared to Xbox GamePass and where there are current 3-month free trail deals ongoing at the time of this comment.

With those factors, 28% growth is not only realistic, it might be cutting the number short. But it's obviously not a strategy that produces a lot of revenue or profit off the service, something you are conveniently ignoring has actually gone up for Sony's services since the PS+ structural revamp.



The difference is that MS are very aggressive on pushing a sub model; Sony isn't. The 73% growth was only pertaining to Satya's bonus salary cut, and only accounts for 5% of his total salary anyway, so that was never a realistic growth goal for GamePass.

However, 28% growth is likely under their internal estimates, and considering the switch in pushing GamePass from the console to PC is kind of proof of this. I figure their internal growth goal was probably around 50%, so getting only a little over half of that is probably still disappointing to them.
Where does it say in the chart profit is up for sub plans?
 

yurinka

Member
Wow. Loosing nearly 2 million subs especially after a relaunch is insane..
It's normal to lose subs, MAUs and sales in summer/Q2. They later increase way more in Q3/fall. And specially new ones come when they buy a console, and a ton of them will be able to buy a console in Q3. We'll see a bump on PS Plus subs this Q3, you'll see.

Btw, this quarter Sony made more revenue from game subs than they or any other console maker ever made in gaming history.
 
Last edited:

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Sony’s CEO was very specific when he said the goal was not to focus on growing their userbase but to incentivize higher spending. Seems to me he knew we are in a post Covid world heading into a recession.

You also have Phil Spencer downplaying the idea of gamepass growth on consoles.

Maybe listen to the folks who have to strategize years in advance instead of forum posters who go apeshit over every single thing every day.
LOL. So you're telling me Sony execs are happy to be trending down in sub plans the past one and a half years where had gone from 46M to 48M and now at 45M, and that they dont want more gamers subbing.

Hilarious.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
It's normal to lose subs, MAUs and sales in summer/Q2. They later increase way more in Q3/fall.

Btw, this quarter Sony made more revenue from game subs than they or any other console maker ever made in gaming history.
If it's normal to lose subs in Q2 and then pick back up later, then why is this year's Q2 45M the lowest number out of the 6 quarters in the chart? Last years Q2 at 47M didn't even budge the rest of the year. It ended at the same 47M.

Given that trend unless something big happens, the 45M this year will likely end up about 45M the next two quarters too.
 

yurinka

Member
LOL. So you're telling me Sony execs are happy to be trending down in sub plans the past one and a half years where had gone from 46M to 48M and now at 45M, and that they dont want more gamers subbing.

Hilarious.
Sony execs are happy seeing that this quarter they made more money than any console maker ever did from a game sub in a quarter.

If it's normal to lose subs in Q2 and then pick back up later, then why is this year's Q2 45M the lowest number out of the 6 quarters in the chart? Last years Q2 at 47M didn't even budge the rest of the year. It ended at the same 47M.

Given that trend unless something big happens, the 45M this year will likely end up about 45M the next two quarters too.
Because new subbers mostly come from new consoles and they couldn't have enough consoles shipped particularly in the biggest selling part of the year, Q3.

This quarter they managed to get a huge inventory of chips and produce even over 3M consoles for the next quarter, where they'll have many big games like GoWR. They'll sell a ton of consoles in the next quarter, and a portion of them will be get PS Plus. You'll see a good bump in subs the next quarter.

The percent of PS5 with PS Plus is higher than in PS4, both the ones active ones and the ones at the same point of its lifetime. Meaning that will not be only during the Q3 spike, the growth and retention will improve over time as people keep migrating from PS4 to PS5.
 
Last edited:

Spyxos

Member
Sony execs are happy seeing that this quarter they made more money than any console maker ever did from a game sub in a quarter.
They lost 2 million subscribers. They will be anything but happy with these figures. I find it funny how many downplay it here.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
They lost 2 million subscribers. They will be anything but happy with these figures. I find it funny how many downplay it here.
In any console war, I have never seen someone doing their best to claim losing millions of product x (in this case sub plans) is a good thing and part of the company's master plan.

Simply amazing.

Just watch. If sub plans pick up and cross 50M, suddenly the status quo 45M isnt the strategy anymore and growth mode to 50M is better.
 
Last edited:

yurinka

Member
They lost 2 million subscribers. They will be anything but happy with these figures. I find it funny how many downplay it here.
Subscriptions growth in consoles typically is linked to sales, so PS Plus has been stagnant when console sales have been stagnant due to chips shortage.



Next quarter console sales will start to skyrocket so PS Plus will go back to grow again. They make a ton of billions per year and this quarter their game sub made more money than it ever did (or any other game sub from MS and Nintendo).

So yes, Sony execs don't give a fuck about having lost temporally 2M subs because they have over 45M subs paying on average more than before and in addition to the game subs they make a shit ton of revenue and profit with other things.

In any console war, I have never seen someone doing their best to claim losing millions of product x (in this case sub plans) is a good thing and part of the company's master plan.

Simply amazing.

Just watch. If sub plans pick up and cross 50M, suddenly the status quo 45M isnt the strategy anymore and growth mode to 50M is better.
They made more revenue from this game sub this quarter than the previous one or than a year ago. No console maker ever made more revenue with a game sub than PS Plus did this quarter.

Summer is the weakest part of the year so numbers go down a bit but later in Q3 they rise again way more and this year specially more since they finally have chips and even were able to build over 3M consoles the previous quarter.

Where is the drama of temporally losing a tiny portion of their users in a season/quarter where it's typical to have slightly weaker numbers but where instead they made a record amount of money with the game sub and when it's pretty clear that this number will go up again the next quarter?

What I never saw in a console war is someone trying to sell as a drama something that just broke an all time revenue (and pretty likely profits too) record on its category. Jim Ryan must be crying because his service is doomed. Sure.
 
Last edited:

Spyxos

Member
Subscriptions growth in consoles typically is linked to sales, so PS Plus has been stagnant when console sales have been stagnant due to chips shortage.



Next quarter console sales will start to skyrocket so PS Plus will go back to grow again. They make a ton of billions per year and this quarter their game sub made more money than it ever did (or any other game sub from MS and Nintendo).

So yes, Sony execs don't give a fuck about having lost temporally 2M subs because they have over 45M subs paying on average more than before and in addition to the game subs they make a shit ton of revenue and profit with other things.
The more important question is whether those 2 million subscribers are gone forever or will return over time. I was a Ps+ subscriber for years. I let Ps+ expire and I find all these new versions of it very confusing and also way too expensive.
 
Top Bottom