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[ChorizoPicozo]

Not really, it just shows were they are now. I'm skeptical of gamepass's growth potential as well, but you are missusing this information if you are using this snapshot as any indicator of potential future market size. Now if they are around this number a few years from now, you can start to make some informed assumptions.

I think you are missing my point.

You have two services. One was introduced in 2017, and the brand itself pivoted to promote it front and center.

Since then, two key phrases have been coined by the Xbox fanbase/shills to promote/sell/evangelize the brand:

1. Xbox's ecosystem is far superior.
2. Game Pass is the best deal/value in gaming.

So, why does this far superior ecosystem and the best value in gaming not have significantly more subscribers, especially in relation to their direct competition, which dosen't offer the main attraction: First Party Games Day One?

Game Pass alone should be the best "console-selling" point for any consumer. Plain and simple.

and lets not forget how many years MS was running a "promotional/introduction entry price point" to the service.

Now, regarding future growth.

My assumption are coming from an informed place. Netflix has 200+M subscribers. Is GP going to have a significant growth? I think yes. But nowhere near Netflix size.

summarizing:
The aggressive push from MS to promote and pivot their business model towards the best deal in gaming should have archive more success than they currently have.

GP will grow, but is not reaching 200+M subs. I believe 70-80 should be doable. acquiring a Million after that, will be exponentially harder and expensive.

 

[baphomet]

No shit

Who would have thought otherwise?

 

[Torrent of Pork]

None of these numbers mean shit since both companies rolled their, "Fuck you, pay me," fee for online play into the overall subscriber number.

 

[X-Wing]

Playstation has more users.

so.....

Is Plus on PC?

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

It is artificial, the only place that charges you to use the internet you already paid for is consoles and that's because Microsoft pioneered forcing people to pay for online and Sony followed suit. Microsoft also tried to force people to pay for online on PC for years and PC gamers laughed them off the platform.

You get what you let them get away with.

You don't have to pay for anything it's optional.

 

[Gameplay Gods Bless]

You don't have to pay for anything it's optional.

Good luck playing CODor FIFA online which a majority of PS gamers do without paying for anything.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Good luck playing CODor FIFA online which a majority of PS gamers do without paying for anything.

Irrelevant.
Optional is optional.
Does every PlayStation 4 and 5 owner pay for Plus?
Nope and it's not even close to half of both machines userbase.
Still want to try this narrative?

 

[adamsapple]

Nothing artificial about subs.
You either sub or you don't...whether it be for online,game rentals or cloud saves.

You don't need Live Gold or any tier of Game Pass for cloud saves on Xbox.

PS+ locks them behind a paid sub, Xbox doesn't.

 

[Gameplay Gods Bless]

Irrelevant.
Optional is optional.
Does every PlayStation 4 and 5 owner pay for Plus?
Nope and it's not even close to half of both machines userbase.
Still want to try this narrative?

What narrative, you breathing is optional doesn't mean the vast majority of humans don't do it.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

What narrative, you breathing is optional doesn't mean the vast majority of humans don't do it.

Less than half of PS4/5 users is far from a vast majority.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

You don't need Live Gold or any tier of Game Pass for cloud saves on Xbox.

PS+ locks them behind a paid sub, Xbox doesn't.

Who cares?
It's still optional and most PS players don't subscribe to PS+ nor does most of GP's available devices sub to it.

 

[adamsapple]

Who cares?
It's still optional and most PS players don't subscribe to PS+ nor does most of GP's available devices sub to it.

Besides the point, just pointing one (very useful) feature that is readily available to all free-users.

 

[RoboFu]

Pfft… Apple Arcade had 100 million subscribers back in 2022.

But you guys keep fighting over 3rd place.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Besides the point, just pointing one (very useful) feature that is readily available to all free-users.

It's cool and about time Xbox doesn't have everything behind a paywall like before.

But...
I didn't know this was a PS+ vs GP features thread.

 

[adamsapple]

It's cool and about time Xbox doesn't have everything behind a paywall like before.

But...
I didn't know this was a PS+ vs GP features thread.

You're right.

My final point on the matter is that obviously we don't know the exact accurate numbers, Omdia is analyzing based on some metrics they have. GP is now at 41.7m (including Core) and these figures are from before the Activision merger completed. Their analysts are predicting that the merger, and when the activision content starts coming to the service, will have something of a notable uptick.

We may see it reach > 50m by the time the first day 1 CoD launches on the service (next year?)

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

You're right.

My final point on the matter is that obviously we don't know the exact accurate numbers, Omdia is analyzing based on some metrics they have. GP is now at 41.7m (including Core) and these figures are from before the Activision merger completed. Their analysts are predicting that the merger, and when the activision content starts coming to the service, will have something of a notable uptick.

We may see it reach > 50m by the time the first day 1 CoD launches on the service (next year?)

COD on GP should gain subs but the price increase(I assume is coming) might make it not as large of a increase?

PS Plus might lose some numbers because of the price increase as well.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

Omdia: Game Pass Currently at 41.7m Subs - Half on Ultimate Tier by end of 2023

Omdia = independent analysis firm based out of London. Most analysts agree that Xbox Game Pass will be impacted the most by Microsoft acquiring Activision Blizzard, thanks to the expected injection of its back catalogue and future releases. Omdia notes that PlayStation Plus is actually ahead...

www.neogaf.com

Who to believe

But it does not debunk anything? PS+ is at 47m, while GP is at 41m. The question should be why PS+ user base is smaller in comparison to the amount of consoles sold. And that's while cloud saves are behind the paywall. Though I think it is due to F2P.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

Ooooohhh... this is that type of thread.

So, Sony has ~48M subs. And 1/3rd of that (16M) is on a tier higher than the 2/3rd on the lowest tier (32M).

Now GP at 41M (including PC), and half of that is gonna be on ultimate (20M), leaving the other half on something not ultimate (20M).

What's wrong with this picture?

Ooooohhhh... I get it, thats why you devised the apocalyptic demise of Sony because I am sure you noticed that your math wasn't mathing.

Anyways, dont count your chickens yet, wait until Xbox actually has a proper win on the board. Then you can start talking about what is best and who is ahead.

I was merely commenting on their current states of subs, not trying to declare a "winner". I don't operate like that.

 

[intheinbetween]

How is this a like to like comparison?

I was wondering this too, actually it would be more accurate to compare GP with PS Plus Extra

 

[Darchaos]

Would i have ps+ if i didnt need it for onlinegaming? Im not sure actually. Gamepass i do have only for the games.

 

[MarkMe2525]

I think you are missing my point.

You have two services. One was introduced in 2017, and the brand itself pivoted to promote it front and center.

Since then, two key phrases have been coined by the Xbox fanbase/shills to promote/sell/evangelize the brand:

1. Xbox's ecosystem is far superior.
2. Game Pass is the best deal/value in gaming.

So, why does this far superior ecosystem and the best value in gaming not have significantly more subscribers, especially in relation to their direct competition, which dosen't offer the main attraction: First Party Games Day One?

Game Pass alone should be the best "console-selling" point for any consumer. Plain and simple.

and lets not forget how many years MS was running a "promotional/introduction entry price point" to the service.

Now, regarding future growth.

My assumption are coming from an informed place. Netflix has 200+M subscribers. Is GP going to have a significant growth? I think yes. But nowhere near Netflix size.

summarizing:
The aggressive push from MS to promote and pivot their business model towards the best deal in gaming should have archive more success than they currently have.

GP will grow, but is not reaching 200+M subs. I believe 70-80 should be doable. acquiring a Million after that, will be exponentially harder and expensive.

I also don't think they are going to hit 200 million, my point was simply that their current subscriber count doesn't tell us anything about their possible future growth. Xbox is in a different place than they were in 2017 (brand wise), with their flurry of investments. It is very possible that they shake things up in the coming years (not that I'm making that particular prediction).

 

[systemr123]

You could have included the interesting bit -



As Sony's leverage in the marketplace declines to lock out Xbox from titles/publishers/devs and Game Pass keeps ramping up advertising/output we're going to see this skew even further. Sony's lack of aggressive pricing policies, platform releases, poor ports, indie support and generally titles based on GaaS lacking etc are going to further widen this gap sustainably. Game Pass has a unified system across devices, platforms, ecosystem, release targets, support, community, security etc. Sony are well behind here and it's going to get worse for PS+ attractiveness by comparison to GP. Hopefully it spurs Sony into more PC releases and a unified system, I doubt they'll do it though (Sony's tech is vastly "less" compatible to day one release parity, even without the business tactics).

Wow this must be written by an MS funded ai marketing bot lol.

 

[systemr123]

I think you are missing my point.

You have two services. One was introduced in 2017, and the brand itself pivoted to promote it front and center.

Since then, two key phrases have been coined by the Xbox fanbase/shills to promote/sell/evangelize the brand:

1. Xbox's ecosystem is far superior.
2. Game Pass is the best deal/value in gaming.

So, why does this far superior ecosystem and the best value in gaming not have significantly more subscribers, especially in relation to their direct competition, which dosen't offer the main attraction: First Party Games Day One?

Game Pass alone should be the best "console-selling" point for any consumer. Plain and simple.

and lets not forget how many years MS was running a "promotional/introduction entry price point" to the service.

Now, regarding future growth.

My assumption are coming from an informed place. Netflix has 200+M subscribers. Is GP going to have a significant growth? I think yes. But nowhere near Netflix size.

summarizing:
The aggressive push from MS to promote and pivot their business model towards the best deal in gaming should have archive more success than they currently have.

GP will grow, but is not reaching 200+M subs. I believe 70-80 should be doable. acquiring a Million after that, will be exponentially harder and expensive.

I think they will not even reach half of that number. About half of the 40 millions is Gamepass ultimate as we know it, which means the service didn’t grow at nearly anything at all, or maybe even shrunk a little in numbers. The other subs are gold members and it’s unlikely they’ll upgrade their subs because they didn’t do so already in the first place.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

...my point was simply that their current subscriber count doesn't tell us anything about their possible future growth.

...but that is literally how it works.

You look at the present (which is an accumulation of the past) to make projections/predictions or informed opinions for the future.




for example this:

It is very possible that they shake things up in the coming years

well, is almost a guarantee that they will need to shake things up.

but the odds of that shake-up being positive is low. (based on the past track record)

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

Wow this must be written by an MS funded ai marketing bot lol.

Another well thought out response from a warrior. Piss off.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Wow this must be written by an MS funded ai marketing bot lol.

How fans of a subscription gaming service are latching on Sony also pushing GaaS games is ironic . Yeah, it seems workshopped in a discord somewhere or like an evangelist info pack made by some Community Manager / Fan evangelist suit.

 

[Damigos]

Does it actually matter ? Does it matter if it is 50 m vs 25 m or maybe 30 m vs 45 m ?

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

I was merely commenting on their current states of subs, not trying to declare a "winner". I don't operate like that.

You could have fooled me, with all that talk of well behind and how it's going to get worse and what not pretty much reads like you are not only saying this is better than that one but also listing off why one would continue (in your opinion) to fail.... but fine, I'll take your word for it.

But why your entire argument falls flat, is simply because the only thing those two subs have in common is that they are both subs that allow you to rent games. PS+ is not trying to be like GP anymore than GP is trying to be like PS+. Eg, just look at the day of Spiderman's release, in that one day PS made over $250M in revenue. Just in one day. That is something that will NEVER happen with or for Xbox again. Just two completely different business models. One platform's future is pretty much tied to its subscription service, the other platform isn't.

And if that doesn't make you understand why it's ridiculous to compare them, then I don't know what is.

 

[crackajack]

Considering how Disney is currently struggling and what DAZN does with their price, the sub wars in gaming might get really interesting too once the industry is fully adapting to it ... I would assume MS reached quite deep into their pockets for some earlier deals, to get things started, maybe only got some good deals from some indies, but publishers now expect both platforms to pay quite some money for anything, certainly when doing a day one deal, and I assume the whole math for both looks way different than before already, when member numbers were lower and the whole thing was considered investment and it did not really need to stand on its own feet. Replacing 60+ a pop with a flatrate is probably way riskier than it was for movies (and music even more) since budgets got out of hand anyway already and the audience is kinda smaller even though all dream of converting mobile gamers. But the box is now open and one fully commited to it and while best case scenarios probably did not pan out, revenue seems to increase so far. So all is good so far.

 

[Danjin44]

I haven’t got PS+ since PS3 era, i don’t play online and most of good games that comes to PS+ I already bought when it got released…..for me its just waste of money.

 

[Black_Stride]

Unless im mistaken after both companies relaunched their services they look like this:

PSN Subscription = Playstation+
Xbox Live Gold = Gamepass Core.

If this is correct, more playstations out there and people who want to play online, logically there should be more PS+ subs than Gamepass subs.

 

[GymWolf]

 

[Godot25]

Considering PlayStation outsold Xbox more then 3:1 and is currently outselling Xbox 2:1, difference between 47 millions PS Plus Subs and 40 million Game Pass sub is not really reflecting on Sony in a good way. There is just too much PlayStation users that are not subbing anywhere.

Also, Microsoft has way higher potential growth vector since they have their service also on PC, while Sony is pretty much capped and their only way to grow is to increase spend per user.

And as analysts are pointing out, average $ per one sub is way higher on Xbox, since half of users are on most expensive plan.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Ooooohhh... this is that type of thread.

So, Sony has ~48M subs. And 1/3rd of that (16M) is on a tier higher than the 2/3rd on the lowest tier (32M).

Now GP at 41M (including PC), and half of that is gonna be on ultimate (20M), leaving the other half on something not ultimate (20M).

What's wrong with this picture?

Ooooohhhh... I get it, thats why you devised the apocalyptic demise of Sony because I am sure you noticed that your math wasn't mathing.

Anyways, dont count your chickens yet, wait until Xbox actually has a proper win on the board. Then you can start talking about what is best and who is ahead.

A proper win for Xbox when they stagnate at 41M incl PC?

 

[Topher]

Considering PlayStation outsold Xbox more then 3:1 and is currently outselling Xbox 2:1, difference between 47 millions PS Plus Subs and 40 million Game Pass sub is not really reflecting on Sony in a good way. There is just too much PlayStation users that are not subbing anywhere.

Also, Microsoft has way higher potential growth vector since they have their service also on PC, while Sony is pretty much capped and their only way to grow is to increase spend per user.

And as analysts are pointing out, average $ per one sub is way higher on Xbox, since half of users are on most expensive plan.

Those Game Pass numbers include PC subs so how does your comparion reflect poorly on PS when your ratio is just console sales but your Game Pass numbers are not limited to console subscribers for Xbox?

 

[Killjoy-NL]

I think you are missing my point.

You have two services. One was introduced in 2017, and the brand itself pivoted to promote it front and center.

Since then, two key phrases have been coined by the Xbox fanbase/shills to promote/sell/evangelize the brand:

1. Xbox's ecosystem is far superior.
2. Game Pass is the best deal/value in gaming.

So, why does this far superior ecosystem and the best value in gaming not have significantly more subscribers, especially in relation to their direct competition, which dosen't offer the main attraction: First Party Games Day One?

Game Pass alone should be the best "console-selling" point for any consumer. Plain and simple.

and lets not forget how many years MS was running a "promotional/introduction entry price point" to the service.

Now, regarding future growth.

My assumption are coming from an informed place. Netflix has 200+M subscribers. Is GP going to have a significant growth? I think yes. But nowhere near Netflix size.

summarizing:
The aggressive push from MS to promote and pivot their business model towards the best deal in gaming should have archive more success than they currently have.

GP will grow, but is not reaching 200+M subs. I believe 70-80 should be doable. acquiring a Million after that, will be exponentially harder and expensive.

70-80M is wishful thinking unless they expand to Nintendo/Playstation.

Even with PC they already hit a ceiling at ~40M.

 

[Godot25]

Those Game Pass numbers include PC subs so how does your comparion reflect poorly on PS when your ratio is just console sales but your Game Pass numbers are not limited to console subscribers for Xbox?

Even if PC Game Pass was 10 million from overall Game Pass numbers (which it isn't, since estimates about PC Games Pass are around 5 million+ range), it would still paint a pretty interesting picture for Sony.

Also, nothing is preventing Sony to go more towards PC Gaming. They choose to limit themselves by treating PC gaming as an afterthought.

Also, you can't "unwind" PC from Game Pass however you slice it, since Ultimate includes PC Game Pass. But that doesn't mean that Ultimate subscribers are PC Game Pass users