Good Job Bob
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Paleo Diet 101: How and why you should eat like a Caveman
- Thread starter Dash27
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SteveMeister
Hang out with Steve.
That's really the rationale -- since they are toxic unless cooked, humans obviously didn't evolve eating them, so why should modern humans? I think in moderation, beans are fine. They do however have a lot of carbs for the protein they provide.
I tend to go more with what gives you the best bang for your caloric buck. Foods that are denser in nutrients. More vitamins, minerals, antioxidants with fewer carbs and lower 6:3 ratios. Prefer protein & fat calories over carb calories. The less-processed, the better. That sort of thing.
Why does that matter? We evolved to use every tool at our disposal, cooking food is a too.
We didn't evolve to live in houses with AC or Central Heating, that doesn't mean we shouldn't.
MisterNegative
Banned
If you eat less junk and more lean meats while exercising you're going to lose weight. Doesn't make this diet any special.
Danne-Danger
Member
Basically, look at what you're eating, see what you can improve, and stick to your decision.
If you're eating a lot of pasta, switch to rice, if you're eating white rice, switch to brown, and voila, you're on your way to a healthier diet.
Look up food sites (ex: http://www.whfoods.com/ ), do a search for the things you consume most, get some tips on how to prepare it best, and what to best combine it with. From there you'll start combining your rice (or quinoa, or similar healthy things) with beans and vegetables, and it'll likely be a natural progression for you.
I've found that just getting aware of what I'm putting into my system will turn me off from all the bad stuff I used to consume, it makes you pay attention to nutritional values which in turn will spread to your whole lifestyle. Recently (about a year ago) becoming a vegetarian AND starting to exercise is what got me started, I had to change my diet and naturally started searching for the best alternatives. Right now I have pretty decent control of what I put in, I feel great while doing it and it's been a very natural progression which makes me believe that I won't have any trouble sticking to this new lifestyle in the future. I don't feel forced to do anything for arbitrary reasons, which plays a huge part in motivation for any effort.
What I haven't started doing is counting calories, and while I'm happy with my weight as it is now, I wouldn't mind gaining weight, counting calories would probably help with that. But I'm quite happy where I am, and my economy is pretty happy with my choices as well, so the extra effort isn't worth it since I can exercise and maintain my weight as it is now. With all the extra peanuts, dark chocolates and olive oil that that involves.
Well yeah, but they are, in fact, very good for you, and I wouldn't take a caveman's word for the opposite. Disregarding that kind of progress because of some darwinistic inkling is IMO a disservice to everyone.
I do however, take Dead Man's word on the fact that lentils were included in the 'original' diet.
I'm not bashing what's IN the diet, you could probably live a healthy life by adhering to it. But making it more difficult to follow by excluding healthy foods from your intake is just making a healthy lifestyle unnecessarily difficult when the most important factor is that people stick to the changes they make.
Naked Snake
Member
I've been eating paleo for about 4 years or so now, still tweaking various things now and then trying to figure what's best for me (e.g. how much fruit I can get away with, whether or not to eat sweet potatoes, nuts, etc.) since I have some issues and mild food allergies that I'm still trying to completely figure out.
I eat saturated fat by the bucket load, I'm very lean and all my blood markers are in the optimal range.
I eat saturated fat by the bucket load, I'm very lean and all my blood markers are in the optimal range.
Fad diets come and go but a watered down version of paleo sounds like common sense.
Not to sure about this militant carb bashing though. What happened to looking at gi? That came and went faster than Usain Bolt. Just for laughs, I googled health benefits of pasta and there are numerous medical studies that appear to prove that there are numerous associated health benefits (unlike white breads etc)
Not to sure about this militant carb bashing though. What happened to looking at gi? That came and went faster than Usain Bolt. Just for laughs, I googled health benefits of pasta and there are numerous medical studies that appear to prove that there are numerous associated health benefits (unlike white breads etc)
MisterNegative
Banned
I thought sat fats were really bad for you...?
entremet
Member
With some few exception what you're talking about is not too different than paleo. Whole foods rule.
Basically paleo, vegetarianism, etc. are elimination diets. What they eliminate is more important that what they recommend. Heck, eliminate sugar and processed junk--the stuff that litters the aisle of supermarkets--and you're way ahead of the game.
Naked Snake
Member
Not in paleo land.
Edit:
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/saturated-fat-healthy/#axzz2H7BlGCou
http://chriskresser.com/the-saturated-fat-myth-debunked-in-two-minutes-and-thirty-five-seconds
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2011/01/does-dietary-saturated-fat-increase.html
http://www.archevore.com/panu-weblog/2010/3/18/sat-fat-or-pufa-which-one-do-you-fear.html
http://perfecthealthdiet.com/2010/09/saturated-fat-reduces-risk-of-stroke-and-heart-disease/
http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/lipid-hypothesis/saturated-fat-debate/
http://paleodietlifestyle.com/fear-of-saturated-fat-and-cholesterol/
http://jdmoyer.com/2011/05/28/3-idiotic-nutrition-myths-that-wont-die/
A lot of people like to pick apart and snap at diets for good reasons but I feel like a lot of people are missing the major points here. Paleo or primal is mainly saying to eat nutritionally dense foods, and cut out anything that would require excessive processing/preparation in order to be edible. It wants people to remove non-foods like boxed garbage sweets, pop, processed food full of additives and fillers- stuff that's bad for you. Sure, some people can eat grains just fine, but they're not that great for you (wheat, I'm glaring at you), especially if you choose to eat foods the paleo/primal diet promotes instead.
I'm a bit biased because my stomach is messed up (possibly from a poor, sugary, acidic diet) so I can't eat almost everything the diet says to exclude anyway without serious pain and inflammation. I think if people were more willing to try the main principles of the diet, but have their beans or brown rice sometimes, they'd still have great results and be healthier for it.
There's even a Paleo 2.0 diet idea that pushes to include things like sweet potatoes and other healthy foods that are banned from the "strict" original paleo diet.
I just feel like so much is being blown out of proportion. I don't see how it's a fad diet at all if some of the most natural, nutritionally dense and easily digestible foods most people will have are the main focus of it. Is it hard to give up refined/processed sugars, starchy grains and dairy? For most people, of course. But from personal experience, I can say once I stopped keeping things I shouldn't eat in the house and my sugar/carbs addiction subsided my taste buds became more sensitive to the flavours of "real" food and processed foods that were mostly carbs, salt or sugar tasted gross, overprocessed and not like real, good food.
This. I think this is the most important thing to think about. Eliminating the worst stuff and then working with what you have after.
I'm a bit biased because my stomach is messed up (possibly from a poor, sugary, acidic diet) so I can't eat almost everything the diet says to exclude anyway without serious pain and inflammation. I think if people were more willing to try the main principles of the diet, but have their beans or brown rice sometimes, they'd still have great results and be healthier for it.
There's even a Paleo 2.0 diet idea that pushes to include things like sweet potatoes and other healthy foods that are banned from the "strict" original paleo diet.
I just feel like so much is being blown out of proportion. I don't see how it's a fad diet at all if some of the most natural, nutritionally dense and easily digestible foods most people will have are the main focus of it. Is it hard to give up refined/processed sugars, starchy grains and dairy? For most people, of course. But from personal experience, I can say once I stopped keeping things I shouldn't eat in the house and my sugar/carbs addiction subsided my taste buds became more sensitive to the flavours of "real" food and processed foods that were mostly carbs, salt or sugar tasted gross, overprocessed and not like real, good food.
This. I think this is the most important thing to think about. Eliminating the worst stuff and then working with what you have after.
I agree with the militant carb bashing thing. Some paleo folks are very into the low carb extremes and I am not on board with that at all. In certain situations it's useful short term but in my mind you should be eating carbs in the form of whole foods in conjunction with exercise.
NintendoGal
Member
CornBurrito
Member
You do realize without factory farming and agriculture hundreds of thousands would starve? Right?
Good thing medical technology exists thanks to agricultural societies.
What a meaningless statement. What is "the full potential" and what evidence do you have to suggest that Paleo unlocks "the full potential."
And what authoritative body decided that this was the full potential of the human body?
Asian countries have low rates of obesity and diabetes (and other health problems that plague America) and have a higher life expectancy. I'm convinced that rice is fine, and Paleo avoidance of it is foolhardy just like their avoidance of milk.
Agree on the first point - the 'is it paleo?'question can be, and often is, taken to the point of absurdity, but the underlying suggestion to eat real food is entirely sensible.
I'm a low-carber but not VLC - 100g or less a day, root veg, dark choc and rice. I still haven't made up my mind about the science behind low carb, the whole insulin hypothesis etc, but for weight loss and maintenance it works perfectly for me. I'd be interested to see these pasta papers! It's always interesting to see what they were comparing the test food for it to show health benefits.
SteveMeister
Hang out with Steve.
Most Americans eat on average roughly 300g carbs per day. Paleo/primal suggests halving that for maintenance, and averaging between 50-100g per day for fat burning. We definitely need carbs in our diet. But we need to balance them properly with proteins and fats. It's healthier and less likely to lead to obesity and metabolic disorders. And it's healthier to get your carbs from whole foods (fruits and vegetables) than it is from grains. Refined carbs are just bad in general and should be eliminated or drastically reduced from our diets.
Note that 150g carbs per day for maintenance is an average. It's ok to occasionally go above or below that.
If you limit your carb intake to 50-75g per day on average, you body WILL burn stored fat. Even if you eat the same calories as before, making up the difference in protein and fat. Even if you don't exercise all that much.
CornBurrito
Member
A question about legumes:
The rationale is that they are toxic unless cooked, so we should avoid them.
Does this mean that Paleo dieters should only eat raw meat? Or is cooking meat fine because it doesn't start off toxic? Why would the latter be the case?
Also how far into our evolutionary history did we have fire?
The rationale is that they are toxic unless cooked, so we should avoid them.
Does this mean that Paleo dieters should only eat raw meat? Or is cooking meat fine because it doesn't start off toxic? Why would the latter be the case?
Also how far into our evolutionary history did we have fire?
Updated the OP with some of the more common issues:
Is this Low Carb?
I would say it's lower carb than a typical western diet. I dont think that makes it "low", or at least it shouldnt. If you note the food pyramids veggies are #2 on that list so make sure you're getting them. If you currently eat a lot of bread, cereal, bagels, pasta, sugary drinks including fruit juice.. yeah it's low carb comparatively.
Speaking of carbs, I cut them and I'm not feeling so energetic. It's been about a week now:
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/low-c...#axzz2H2cyhzbE
Whatever happened to "Eat less exercise more"? That works.
This works for pure fat loss, generally speaking. Paleo is not a diet in the sense of how many people use the word. It's not a fat loss diet. It's a diet in the sense of here's what you should try to eat to be healthy.
The other problem with "eat less exercise more" is when you run into the person eating only pizza, bagels, cereal, ramen noodles, take out food etc and say "well just eat half a bagel and run around the block". They may lose weight but it's not really hitting the core of the problem. They'll likely be even more hungry... less food more expenditure... and it will be much more difficult to keep that up. Once they fail, the weight comes right back. You're also more likely to lose muscle and lean body mass, which isn't very helpful at all.
So... no more bread or pasta... ever?
See above about the 80/20 adherence and "you dont need to be perfect". Try to be strict for 30 days. Reintroduce things slowly after that and see how your tolerance is. As I type this I'm getting ready to go over to my in-laws and she's making pasta. I'm eating some, with a lot of meatballs too. I also hit the gym 4 nights a week which gives me even more room for things like that. At least that's my rationale and I'm sticking to it...
Is this Low Carb?
I would say it's lower carb than a typical western diet. I dont think that makes it "low", or at least it shouldnt. If you note the food pyramids veggies are #2 on that list so make sure you're getting them. If you currently eat a lot of bread, cereal, bagels, pasta, sugary drinks including fruit juice.. yeah it's low carb comparatively.
Speaking of carbs, I cut them and I'm not feeling so energetic. It's been about a week now:
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/low-c...#axzz2H2cyhzbE
Whatever happened to "Eat less exercise more"? That works.
This works for pure fat loss, generally speaking. Paleo is not a diet in the sense of how many people use the word. It's not a fat loss diet. It's a diet in the sense of here's what you should try to eat to be healthy.
The other problem with "eat less exercise more" is when you run into the person eating only pizza, bagels, cereal, ramen noodles, take out food etc and say "well just eat half a bagel and run around the block". They may lose weight but it's not really hitting the core of the problem. They'll likely be even more hungry... less food more expenditure... and it will be much more difficult to keep that up. Once they fail, the weight comes right back. You're also more likely to lose muscle and lean body mass, which isn't very helpful at all.
So... no more bread or pasta... ever?
See above about the 80/20 adherence and "you dont need to be perfect". Try to be strict for 30 days. Reintroduce things slowly after that and see how your tolerance is. As I type this I'm getting ready to go over to my in-laws and she's making pasta. I'm eating some, with a lot of meatballs too. I also hit the gym 4 nights a week which gives me even more room for things like that. At least that's my rationale and I'm sticking to it...
entremet
Member
I do think my paleo brethren give white rice and potatoes too bad of a rap. Many traditional diets have both as staples and the populations are long lived, healthy and free of many diseases of civilizations--heart disease, diabetes, etc.
It's one of the reason's I follow the Perfect Health Diet, which is paleo plus starchy carbs; no gluten.
Plus the fact that I weight train, I need carbs for glycogen restoration. Low carb and weight training was absolutely dreadful.
It's one of the reason's I follow the Perfect Health Diet, which is paleo plus starchy carbs; no gluten.
Plus the fact that I weight train, I need carbs for glycogen restoration. Low carb and weight training was absolutely dreadful.
This is the best write up on legumes I found. It's not paleo I dont think but this is along the lines of what I read and hear:
http://whole9life.com/2012/09/the-legume-manifesto/
I think the idea is that legumes have certain damaging chemicals in them that are denatured by cooking, while meat doesn't have these to begin with. We cook meat as it makes it easier to digest, and avoids food poisoning from contaminants (as we don't eat fresh-from-the-kill meat these days)
At least two million years ago, according to this guy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catching_Fire:_How_Cooking_Made_Us_Human
I like to think of the foundation of primal/paleo diets, as compared to the conventional American diet, is that you eliminate most of the nutritionally-devoid, often higher calorie, types of processed foods and carbohydrates (grain-based foods) with healthier choices (vegetables and fruit). I think that is a SOLID piece of advice for both dieting and life-long health. Some of the other stances in these diets are arguable (their opinion on dairy, legumes, etc.) and can be questioned to a certain degree.
However, I actually think this "Primal Pyramid" is a great blueprint to base your diet on:
However, I actually think this "Primal Pyramid" is a great blueprint to base your diet on:
I'm doing this paleo diet for a month. It crazy how much carbs you were eating when you can't have any now. I literally have search for things to eat everyday but that's OK. I'm only going to be strict for a month so no fast food whatsoever, no bread, no rice, no pasta.
I'm miserable.
I'm miserable.
SuicideUZI
Member
I'm on the eat whatever they give me for free at work diet, I can't afford to be picky.
This pretty much seems like any other low carb, low sugar diet
This pretty much seems like any other low carb, low sugar diet
You have to search for meat, eggs, and veggies?
Moral Panic
Member
Seems like a very expensive diet.
Misconception. What is cheaper than chicken and vegetables? The priciest items on a paleo diet are fish products, and i guess premium cuts of meat, but you don't need to buy those.
Some places sell nuts for high prices, but they aren't always exorbitant.
It can be, especially if you do the puritan, organic, grass fed version. But fatty cuts of meat are often cheaper than lean, potatoes are cheap as chips (ahem), frozen veg is cheap. Fruit can be pricey, but it's best not to make that a major source of calories, anyway. It takes a bit of work, and compromise, but pound shop paleo is doable.
I think this is a big problem in general. Fruit, seeds and nuts easy, and some veggies but for the most part everything paleo needs to be cooked.
Pouring a bowl of cereal can't be easier. Eggs require a bit of effort and clean up. Order a pizza vrs cook a meal. Things like that. I'll try to address this in a future update.
It's really not once you get the hang of it. It seems expensive at first, but you need to just find places where you can get bulk nuts and veggies on the cheap, buy whatever meat is on sale, etc.
I love paleo. I've never felt better than when I'm strict paleo. Right now, I'm not. I got a promotion to a high-stress position and I defected back to carby, sugary goodness to make me feel better, and sometimes it's just easier to grab a slice of pizza than it is to go to the salad counter. When I'm on paleo, I'm full of energy, I poop regularly, my hair and skin feel better, my brain has far less "brain fog," and I just generally feel good at all times. Carbs weigh me down, make me sleepy, make it hard for me to concentrate and also tend to make me feel depressed. Everyone should give paleo a try for at least a month and see how it makes their bodies feel. The first week is a bitch, seriously difficult to work through, but by the second week you won't even notice the lack of carbs anymore.
entremet
Member
Not if you cook most of your meals. Leftovers for lunch. Eggs are still cheap relatively speaking.
It will be slightly more expensive, especially if you follow the classic American diet of--cereal, muffin, bagel for breakfast and some sort of sandwich for lunch.
That they would rather put legumes into the "do not eat" category than alcohol and chocolate seems extraordinarily stupid to me.
entremet
Member
Studies have shown that moderate alcohol consumption, wine and such, is healthy. In moderation, however.
And the chocolate they recommend is not Hershey's but dark chocolate, which is loaded with antioxidants and good fats. Both are sound not be consumed without impunity, however.
Raw dark chocolate is fine. Milk chocolate, obviously, not so much.
No, but I was eating under 50g of carbs a day. 0 pounds lost? C'mon, son.
As I said, I did a quick google search out of curiosity so I haven't looked at the source papers etc-
http://www.internationalpasta.org/resources/extra/3Healthy.pdf
http://www.foodnutritionscience.com/index.cfm/do/monsanto.article/articleId/493.cfm
My point is not to confirm that carbs are a superfood, more that carbs in moderation are perfectly healthy (especially when training) and that not all carbs are made equal (GI etc). It seems like some of these diets are EXTREME when it comes to their vilification of carbs.
When I was trying to get to around 10% body fat, I tried cutting out carbs to the level shown in a paleo style diet and I felt like shit and the headaches that accompanied it did not allow me to work. Never again.
negreenfield
Member
There are threads about this issue on marks daily apple forums, i also have issues sometimes on very low carb losing weigt, some recommendations are to actually increase carbs mostly with potatoes or doing intermittent fastin, everyone is different so you have to find your own sweet spot.
Slow-cooked, steel-cut oats have a TON of health benefits (glycemic regulator, fat burning among them,) but most people have a serving for breakfast and that's it. Moderate consumption of many things is fine on paleo. Simple carbs, however, should be avoided by everyone.
Ta, I'll have a look. Paleo is one of the less carb-unfriendly diets, I think, and actually places quite an emphasis on the source and quality of the carbohydrate.
oneils
Member
Pretty much this.
I don't get this argument - it seems to amount to 'why aren't paleo dieters being as stupid as a superficial reading of the name suggests they might be? Why aren't you eating your meat raw and gamey, and riddled with parasites, and dying of an axe to the head at age 23?'
Yes, there's a cartoony, commercial aspect to some books and websites that are ripe for this kind of criticism, but at its best it's a starting principle to try and figure out which foods are probably not healthy - or just which alternatives are healthier - based on the current best knowledge of our evolutionary heritage. There's no reason we have to eat something just because some populations during the paleolithic did, if there's evidence it was not ideal.
Death Dealer
Member
Avoiding milk seems like common sense to me.
I have never cared for its taste. Even as a kid, I didn't like milk. I have no problem with lactose, I like cheese, yogurt, and ice cream. But just the thought of raw milk out of some animals tit isn't very appetizing. I had a conversation with a neighbor a few weeks ago, he grew up on a farm, and has decided to quit drinking milk.
And consumers in the US have to deal with the bovine growth hormone that is in most of the milk supply.
IMO, Milk is meant for babies, not adults.
I only drink milk for the calcium >:
Moral Panic
Member
I can see how the strength of your argument convinced him.
Rice, pasta, bread? Meat is expensive. Chicken isn't too bad but it doesn't have much fat on it, and if you need to eat enough to satiate yourself then it will be expensive too.
Not to mention that people here are even saying you gotta buy grass fed, no anti-biotic stuff.
Eggs are pretty damn cheap and thats like the best food ever. Also, eat chicken thighs and wings. It will be tastier cheaper, and better (still not as cheap as bread, but whatevs, itll be a lot more filling)
oneils
Member
Name it something else, then. This thread is really frustrating. Hey everyone, there is this diet based on paleolithic eating habits. But, we are going to eliminate some of the foods they ate from the diet and call it paleo anyway. Cause they were not optimal.
Oh and for the next three pages folks will pop in and explain how they love this diet but still eat the eliminated foods anyway (cheese, some grains, and processed deli meat). But hey lets still call it paleo.
I guess I just don't get it. Maybe we are being too literal but its seems contradictory.
Why not just call it the whole foods diet and be done with it?