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[Unknown Soldier]

What I find crazy is PC gamers and enthusiasts getting mad at Nvidia for offering a premium product.I want bleeding edge, not "good enough".

Don't take the loud screaming of a very small minority as representative of all PC gamers. Enthusiasts have long appreciated pushing tech forward and companies which genuinely innovate. The reality is that RTX is selling well and has been since launch, because actual enthusiasts have been buying in and enjoying stuff like Metro Exodus which really uses ray tracing well.

I am glad that Nvidia offers a higher-tiered premium VRR product in G-Sync. The hardware module that AMD fanboys scream about is what allows the very wide refresh rate range and very low input lag characteristic of G-Sync. You can't do that with VESA Variable Refresh (Freesync) period, which is why it commands the premium it does. Nvidia constantly is trying to innovate in the PC gaming/enthusiast space which is why they enjoy the reputation they have.

 

[Ascend]

Just as a reminder. This is not about whether FreeSync or G-Sync is better. This is about existing FreeSync monitors being rebadged as G-Sync monitors.

Do you tout G-Sync as being superior and are constantly supporting nVidia in this thread? Congratulations. You just supported them downgrading their own line-up of G-Sync monitors by adapting 'lower quality' FreeSync monitors under their own branding.

But I guess it's a lot easier to trash the one company you don't like for short-sighted personal gain., rather than trying to at least get some understanding of market dynamics.

 

[Soltype]

Just as a reminder. This is not about whether FreeSync or G-Sync is better. This is about existing FreeSync monitors being rebadged as G-Sync monitors.

Do you tout G-Sync as being superior and are constantly supporting nVidia in this thread? Congratulations. You just supported them downgrading their own line-up of G-Sync monitors by adapting 'lower quality' FreeSync monitors under their own branding.

But I guess it's a lot easier to trash the one company you don't like for short-sighted personal gain., rather than trying to at least get some understanding of market dynamics.

So they don't make real gsync monitors anymore?

 

[Ascend]

So they don't make real gsync monitors anymore?

They do, for now. But... That was not the point. But since you asked, there is one coming out, along with a FreeSync and a FreeSync 2 version of that same monitor;

ViewSonic Introduces New ViewSonic® ELITE Gaming Monitors with G-SYNC IPS Nano Color and 1ms Response Time

ViewSonic introduces new ViewSonic ELITE gaming monitors with G-SYNC, IPS Nano Color and 1ms response time; and new gaming products and software.

www.businesswire.com

 

[Soltype]

They do, for now. But... That was not the point. But since you asked, there is one coming out, along with a FreeSync and a FreeSync 2 version of that same monitor;

ViewSonic Introduces New ViewSonic® ELITE Gaming Monitors with G-SYNC IPS Nano Color and 1ms Response Time

ViewSonic introduces new ViewSonic ELITE gaming monitors with G-SYNC, IPS Nano Color and 1ms response time; and new gaming products and software.

www.businesswire.com

I see your point, hope they don't stop making monitors with the module.No one should be mad at them yet, they still have both options.I can't speak for anybody else, but I was praising them for actually pushing the tech forward. If they stop making the superior versions,then they'll lose my support in that area.

 

[ethomaz]

They won't stop making monitor with G-Sync module... it is the premium option.

Everything else will be VESA Adaptive Sync
though HDMI 2.1+ and DP 1.2+ that is supported by nVidia and AMD.

FreeSync market name will basically die.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Freesync was just AMD's implementation of VESA Adaptive Sync anyways. If the name Freesync dies no one will care.

Also, the reason Freesync over HDMI is not supported by Nvidia is because that is actually proprietary to AMD. Current HDMI 2.0 has no provisions for Adaptive Sync support. It is not until HDMI 2.1's official VRR that it is part of the actual HDMI standard, this is why Turing can now support VRR on LG's 2019 OLED's which have HDMI 2.1. This is too bad because I have a Samsung 65Q70R TV which supports Freesync but I'm not going to give up my superior Nvidia video card just for Freesync support on my TV.

 

[Ascend]

Y'all must be really desperate to constantly keep hammering in people's head how superior nVidia is, to avoid discussing the topic at hand...

 

[metareferential]

Whatever, I just buy the best products, and g-sync is better than any freesync offering; same with gpus. I'll gladly buy an AMD gpu, if they even cared to offer an high end alternative.

And making freesync monitors compatible with nvidia gpus means there's a better choice now for consumers; and it's obvious monitor makers are taking advantage, no one buys AMD gpus in the enthusiast market.

 

[Ascend]

Whatever, I just buy the best products,

Ok. "Best" can be subjective. Best for yourself? Best for the long run? Best value? And... Why do you do that? Do you NEED the best products? Is it an ego booster? Or have you fallen to the brainwashing of marketing giants to make you think you need it when you really don't?

and g-sync is better than any freesync offering;

And I repeat once again; Not the point of this thread;

Just as a reminder. This is not about whether FreeSync or G-Sync is better. This is about existing FreeSync monitors being rebadged as G-Sync monitors.

Do you tout G-Sync as being superior and are constantly supporting nVidia in this thread? Congratulations. You just supported them downgrading their own line-up of G-Sync monitors by adapting 'lower quality' FreeSync monitors under their own branding.

 

[b0uncyfr0]

I don't blame NV really - Gsync lost. This is their way of leveling the field prob.

AMD shouldn't take this though - they should clearly state FreeSync (if its up to them).

 

[Alexios]

I think you have unrealistic expectations if you think a company like Intel would announce a price drop was because of a specific competitor. It'd just get blown out of proportion and become marketing for said competitor rather than do its intended job, which is to help Intel sell shit, not AMD.

Everyone knows Nvidia (finally!) caved and supported freesync/async monitors, but as it doesn't work well on all the monitors I don't see anything wrong with that Gsync Compatible tag. I used their own list of Gsync Compatible monitors initially released to buy mine ensuring it's to spec.

I'm sure the monitors' tech specs on the product pages will still mention freesync/whatever compatibility even if they have a Gsync sticker. Although if that makes them increase in price that's pretty bad I guess people simply can choose not to buy those models and opt for equivalents.

 

[Spukc]

I don't blame NV really - Gsync lost. This is their way of leveling the field prob.

AMD shouldn't take this though - they should clearly state FreeSync (if its up to them).

Gsync lost ...

How cute

 

[metareferential]

Ok. "Best" can be subjective. Best for yourself? Best for the long run? Best value? And... Why do you do that? Do you NEED the best products? Is it an ego booster? Or have you fallen to the brainwashing of marketing giants to make you think you need it when you really don't?


And I repeat once again; Not the point of this thread;

I did answer to the OP, so what's the point of your pedantry?

Of course nvidia is trying to push its products, and partners try to maximize their product.

It's not like other companies are more "ethical" or whatever dumb shit people dream about these days.

And if you need to know why I buy the best gpu available everytime I upgrade or why I like g-sync monitors it's not easy to guess: I have money and I like things.

 

[Ascend]

Gsync lost ...

How cute

They did lose. It's the whole reason they added compatibility with FreeSync monitors on their nVidia cards. And the whole idea of G-Sync being better than FreeSync is an utter lie. Want a prime example that tackles both those points? Here;

"Originally when we compared the two models there was a fairly clear target market for each, and a strong reason to buy one of the other. That choice really boiled down to your graphics card choice, with the F model being sensible (and clearly the right option) for AMD FreeSync users, and the G model being preferable for NVIDIA users in our opinion. These variable refresh rate technologies provide some significant benefits in gaming and should not be overlooked. Some NVIDIA users still decided to buy the F model for its other benefits like a higher refresh rate and sRGB emulation mode, and live without the support for VRR in gaming. While also saving themselves a bit of money in the process as the F model was a bit cheaper despite offering more features. "

And G-Sync is for lower end cards rather than "the best" as some have claimed in here;
"There may be some people who don't have a high end GTX 10-series or RTX 20-series card, and they would still benefit from the G model we feel, especially as with a less powerful card they are likely to experience lower and more varied frame rates - exactly where G-sync is most useful. However, if you've got a high end card, we really don't think there's any major reason to buy the G model over the F model now. "

And framerates are higher on the FreeSync model;
"The F model has support for a higher refresh rate, being able to handle the full 144Hz of the panel and giving a 24Hz boost over the G model."

B B But the lag!!!! G-Sync is lower!!!;
Originally the lag of the screens was also a fairly important differentiator for most buyers, with the G version having basically no lag at all thanks to the added G-sync module, and the F model having around 9.7ms of signal processing lag. With the arrival of the v2 firmware in early 2019 for the F model, the lag has been eliminated basically completely and so this is no longer a difference between the two models.

And non-gaming usage is better on the FreeSync model;
Away from gaming the F model has the advantage. It has a factory calibration that the G model does not, and so provides a more reliable default setup. There is also the useful sRGB emulation mode which might be useful for colour critical work or viewing content in the more common sRGB colour space. On the G model you are restricted to always using the wider gamut of the backlight. Probably fine for gaming and multimedia, but it doesn't give you the flexibility to run in sRGB if you wanted to. There is also support for 10-bit colour depth if you have an appropriate graphics card and workflow, or want to use it for the latest games. Finally there is a better static contrast ratio with 1000:1 measured, compared with 902:1 on the G model. That may vary from unit to unit, but those were our findings.

LG 34GK950F review - TFTCentral

34" ultrawide screen from LG. With 144Hz native refresh rate, new Nano IPS panel, wide gamut support and AMD FreeSync

www.tftcentral.co.uk

Convinced? No? Since you still won't let the whole "G-Sync is better than Freesync" mantra die, I'll leave this here;





If you're still not convinced that the whole thing doesn't matter, no one can help you.

And if you need to know why I buy the best gpu available everytime I upgrade or why I like g-sync monitors it's not easy to guess: I have money and I like things.

So blind consumerism. Got it. At least you're honest. No wonder you consider all this 'pedantry'.

Now. Can we leave the e-peen of G-sync vs FreeSync behind? Can we now talk about Intel spending 10 times AMD's net income to offer discounts to partners? Please?

 

[metareferential]

So blind consumerism. Got it. At least you're honest. No wonder you consider all this 'pedantry'.

Why is that? It's not that I don't do my research. It's just that I don't really need to, since I can go for what's best for me (and also for everyone else).

I don't get if it's just bigotry or envy on your part.

Now. Can we leave the e-peen of G-sync vs FreeSync behind? Can we now talk about Intel spending 10 times AMD's net income to offer discounts to partners? Please?

That's unchecked capitalism for you. AMD just doesn't have the money to do it, otherwise they would.

 

[ethomaz]

What exactly G-Sync lost?

nVidia secured and never had any competition at premium monitors with their G-Sync module.

After that they unlocked Adaptive Sync as G-Sync Compatible label to match the VESA standard required by HDMI 2.1+ and DP 1.2+.

It is a win-win case.

While FreeSync basically become obsolete with VESA standard being required in HDMI 2.1+ and DP 1.2+.

Basically no TV or Monitor manufacturer will want to put the FreeSync label in their products after HDMI 2.1 and DP 1.2 because the label means nothing.

 

[Ascend]

Why is that? It's not that I don't do my research. It's just that I don't really need to, since I can go for what's best for me (and also for everyone else).

That you assume what's best for you is the best for everyone else says a lot... How's your Titan RTX doing?

I don't get if it's just bigotry or envy on your part.

Maybe you don't get it because it's something else entirely, like, genuine concern for the gaming market, which you obviously don't share since you're too busy satisfying your own wants.

That's unchecked capitalism for you. AMD just doesn't have the money to do it, otherwise they would.

Who needs to do the checking according to you? I for one think that the largest power to check companies is the consumer voting with their wallet. Wouldn't you agree?

Spoiler

I don't think you would, considering you buy to simply have the best and don't give a damn about anything else....

What exactly G-Sync lost?

nVidia secured and never had any competition at premium monitors with their G-Sync module. Except the one that I just linked in my previous post.

After that they unlocked Adaptive Sync as G-Sync Compatible label to match the VESA standard required by HDMI 2.1+ and DP 1.2+. The current support of FreeSync monitors has ZERO to do with HDMI 2.1 standards.

It is a win-win case.

While FreeSync basically become obsolete with VESA standard being required in HDMI 2.1+ and DP 1.2+.

Basically no TV or Monitor manufacturer will want to put the FreeSync label in their products after HDMI 2.1 and DP 1.2 because the label means nothing.

See my replies in bold under the quote. Considering your repetitive drivel after my previous post that already tackled all the points you just decided to repeat yet AGAIN, you are now a proud member of my ignore list, because obviously you love to ignore reason and evidence and it's impossible to actually have a conversation with you.

 

[ethomaz]

That you assume what's best for you is the best for everyone else says a lot... How's your Titan RTX doing?


Maybe you don't get it because it's something else entirely, like, genuine concern for the gaming market, which you obviously don't share since you're too busy satisfying your own wants.


Who needs to do the checking according to you? I for one think that the largest power to check companies is the consumer voting with their wallet. Wouldn't you agree?

Spoiler

I don't think you would, considering you buy to simply have the best and don't give a damn about anything else....

See my replies in bold under the quote. Considering your repetitive drivel after my previous post that already tackled all the points you just decided to repeat yet AGAIN, you are now a proud member of my ignore list, because obviously you love to ignore reason and evidence and it's impossible to actually have a conversation with you.

Nothing you said or posted goes against what I said and it is happening.

Premium devices = G-sync
All others = VESA Adaptive Sync

nVidia support both.
AMD only the second.

Is that not clear? FreeSync is a obsolete name while G-Sync still have it target that never changed (premium devices with G-Sync module).

Monitor supporting FreeSync before VESA standard gets ready is not evidence for anything... new monitors and TVs with full HDMI 2.1 and DP 1.2 support won't need FreeSync name anymore. Next Xbox and PS5 won't use FreeSync anymore but the standard HDMI 2.1.

That is not bad at all... it just shows that FreeSync was just a transition term/tech... just like most AMD Radeon techs like Mantle.

 

[Tesseract]

amd is that you

 

[llien]

As long as it is just about names, it's half bad and I doubt AMD could do anything about it, besides, perhaps, ridiculing it in social media (which could work wonders, as none of the monitor manufacturers should want to piss off sizeable part of GPU market and basically all of the console market)

In case it's coming with crippling FreeSync (which I doubt it is) then it is basically an actual G-Sync monitor, so, uh, stupid move, fuck them, but that's fine.

And amd is a fucking joke in gpu land

What universe is this?

Jesus Christ...

 

[Spukc]

As long as it is just about names, it's half bad and I doubt AMD could do anything about it, besides, perhaps, ridiculing it in social media (which could work wonders, as none of the monitor manufacturers should want to piss off sizeable part of GPU market and basically all of the console market)

In case it's coming with crippling FreeSync (which I doubt it is) then it is basically an actual G-Sync monitor, so, uh, stupid move, fuck them, but that's fine.



What universe is this?

Jesus Christ...

normal universe

 

[llien]

normal universe

In normal universe we have (frankly quite enjoyable) "why is this shit so expensive" situation in "I only buy green" camp.
Just leave that bubble of yours, or, as Germans put it, selber schuld.

 

[Spukc]

In normal universe we have (frankly quite enjoyable) "why is this shit so expensive" situation in "I only buy green" camp.
Just leave that bubble of yours, or, as Germans put it, selber schuld.

ey i never told you that AMD was bad for fighting team green.
heck i am not paying that silly money to team green atm.
i wil wait for the new ones. this gen clearly was a mistake price wise

 

[metareferential]

That you assume what's best for you is the best for everyone else says a lot... How's your Titan RTX doing?

I was just talking about performance. I still haven't upgraded from last-gen Titan Xp. No need to right now; so, as you see, I'm not just blindly rushing to buy the next big thing.

Maybe you don't get it because it's something else entirely, like, genuine concern for the gaming market, which you obviously don't share since you're too busy satisfying your own wants.

So what do you propose? We should all just buy inferior products hoping for the good?

Who needs to do the checking according to you? I for one think that the largest power to check companies is the consumer voting with their wallet. Wouldn't you agree?

Spoiler

I don't think you would, considering you buy to simply have the best and don't give a damn about anything else....

I do agree, in fact. But I see my hardware as a tool, therefore I just buy what works best at the moment I buy, and that in the recent years meant buying nvidia and intel products.

It doesn't mean I condone bad practices or straight-up unfair competition (or bribery, which seem to be a more apt name for the matter at hand).

And if you ask about how I see it, I don't think consumers alone are enough of a strong force to steer the market. I live in communist Switzerland, after all xD

 

[zeorhymer]

This all really boils down to:

G-Sync = Brand name
vs
Freesync = generic name (VESA Standard)

There is no market power in "Freesync" if it's just a generic standard. No matter how you spin it, NVidia is propping up their brand name.

 

[b0uncyfr0]

As I mentioned Gsync lost - *To my knowledge* Gsync Monitors weren't selling as good as Freesync cause well, they're about 100 bucks more. That's alot of money for ideally the same thing, now anyway. Seems, in the beginning, Gsync was better.

Also with the new adaptive Sync moniker coming soon with HDMI 2.1, doesnt that mean Gsync is also gonna die? ethomaz You keep saying Gsync is a premium experience - then why did NV Start supporting Freesync - could it be : maybe that was the only way for them to actually not lose money by moving some of their monitor's (since it supports every adaptive sync type)?

I have no evidence to back that up - but in my head - if NV was the clear premium experience, you wouldn't support your opponent.

 

[ethomaz]

As I mentioned Gsync lost - *To my knowledge* Gsync Monitors weren't selling as good as Freesync cause well, they're about 100 bucks more. That's alot of money for ideally the same thing, now anyway. Seems, in the beginning, Gsync was better.

Also with the new adaptive Sync moniker coming soon with HDMI 2.1, doesnt that mean Gsync is also gonna die? ethomaz You keep saying Gsync is a premium experience - then why did NV Start supporting Freesync - could it be : maybe that was the only way for them to actually not lose money by moving some of their monitor's (since it supports every adaptive sync type)?

I have no evidence to back that up - but in my head - if NV was the clear premium experience, you wouldn't support your opponent.

The own OP shows monitor manufacturers changing the label from Freesync to GSync... how that shows freesync is seeling and Gsync not? I believe manufacturers wants to sell their monitor no matter what (aka using Gsync lable).

Gsync is only for premium models with module... they will continue as a brand like before.
HDMI 2.1 / DP 1.2 (VESA Adaptive Sync) doesn't replace Gsync with module... in fact they didn't have that option.
VESA Adaptive Sync replaces Freesync.

nVidia never supported Freesync... they unlocked Adaptive Sync to match HDMI 2.1 and DP 1.2 standards... it is mandatory... nVidia could do nothing about that because it is the standard and nVidia is part of VESA.

The scenario was like that before:

Gsync = premium devices with module supported by nVidia
FreeSync = others devices supported by AMD

Now it is now after HDMI 2.1 / DP 1.2 releases:

Gsync = premium devices with module supported by nVidia
VESA Adaptive Sync = others devices supported by AMD and nVidia

PS. Of course we are in a transiction phase yet... so you will see labeled Freesync monitor but after that phase you will see only HDMI 2.1 in TVs and DP 1.2 in monitors... that is enough to know you have VESA Adaptive Sync... at the same time it will have premium monitors with module and Gsync label over the standard VESA Adaptive Sync.

 

[Self_Destructive]

Y'all must be really desperate to constantly keep hammering in people's head how superior nVidia is, to avoid discussing the topic at hand...

Ok let's talk about the topic.

Do I feel bad that monitor manufacturers are advertising "freesync" monitors as "Gsync compatible"? Nope. Because like the video says... AMD themselves are at fault because THEY don't push their brand.

Freesync is AMD's brand of Adaptive Sync monitors. By utilizing an open standard and putting a brand on it... they essentially opened it up to simply being labeled "adaptive sync". Nvidia, on the other hand... has built up Gsync as a premium feature which guarantees a certain level of quality. They have Gsync... Gsync Ultimate... and now Gsync Compatible. Nvidia... taking "adaptive sync" and putting THEIR brand on it "Gsync Compatible" have smartly put their brand power into play. "Freesync" is known to be a less premium branding... and consumers know that.

If monitor manufacturers see more value in being known as "Gsync compatible" then that's what they'll put. And they wont risk putting "Freesync" on there because that would possible cause consumers to think it's an inferior product and not choose it over other Gsync monitors.

Nvidia is just smartly putting their branding to use. They'll continue to charge premiums for the best experience. The only way "Gsync" will go away is when people stop paying for it because it no longer provides something better than the standard.

 

[Ascend]

I was just talking about performance. I still haven't upgraded from last-gen Titan Xp. No need to right now; so, as you see, I'm not just blindly rushing to buy the next big thing.

Ok. Good. It's not as bad as I thought then

So what do you propose? We should all just buy inferior products hoping for the good?

Hm... I don't know about buying inferior products, BUT.... If you look at the FreeSync vs G-Sync videos I posted above, the 'inferiority' is not nearly as bad as it's touted to be, if there at all. Additionally, I do not think it is a bad thing to go for a relatively equal alternative, like choosing the 5700XT rather than a 2070S. And above that, the only thing companies look at is their bottom line. So if their flagship jumps from $699 to $1199 (1080Ti to 2080 Ti, although not the only example), it's a good idea to not support these price hikes, even if the new one has new features, which is what is already expected of new cards. Supporting that will only encourage them to keep shifting up prices.
Part of the problem is the preconceived belief that AMD is by default inferior.

I do agree, in fact. But I see my hardware as a tool, therefore I just buy what works best at the moment I buy, and that in the recent years meant buying nvidia and intel products.

It doesn't mean I condone bad practices or straight-up unfair competition (or bribery, which seem to be a more apt name for the matter at hand).

And if you ask about how I see it, I don't think consumers alone are enough of a strong force to steer the market. I live in communist Switzerland, after all xD

Fair enough, although I don't agree about the consumer part. The concept of voting with your wallet is a lot stronger than people think. Imagine if AMD's FX CPUs, despite being garbage, outsold Intel to the point of AMD's market share being twice as big as Intel. What would be the incentive for AMD to improve anything? And that is exactly what happens with nVidia and Intel, but on other fronts.

 

[Shai-Tan]

all gsync compatible means is it passed the testing regime they do for it that Linus Tech Tips showed in their video on it. Hardware Unboxed suggested in their testing that most Freesync monitors with displayport work anyway so maybe it’s a marketing coup but as others have mentioned this will be a standard feature in new ports so in the end we all win and won’t have to pay the premium that most aren’t willing to pay for displays with gsync hardware.

 

[ethomaz]

all gsync compatible means is it passed the testing regime they do for it that Linus Tech Tips showed in their video on it. Hardware Unboxed suggested in their testing that most Freesync monitors with displayport work anyway so maybe it’s a marketing coup but as others have mentioned this will be a standard feature in new ports so in the end we all win and won’t have to pay the premium that most aren’t willing to pay for displays with gsync hardware.

Actually if you're want the best monitor you will need to pay the premium for the G-Sync module... that won't change.

 

[Shai-Tan]

Actually if you're want the best monitor you will need to pay the premium for the G-Sync module... that won't change.

what freesync does is good enough as far as I’m concerned and gsync ultimate likely will be irrrelevant with hdmi 2.1 adoption. my next display has nothing to do with gsync i.e. it will be a tv with hdmi 2.1. I doubt displayport 1.4 to hdmi 2.1 adapters will support vrr sadly but there’s no way I’m paying 2k for a teeny 4k monitor with gsync ultimate. I’m way more likely to get a 3000 series nvidia card that can play games in a locked 60 or 120hz than an overpriced monitor that’s barely as good as a $1500 tv

 

[ethomaz]

what freesync does is good enough as far as I’m concerned and gsync ultimate likely will be irrrelevant with hdmi 2.1 adoption. my next display has nothing to do with gsync i.e. it will be a tv with hdmi 2.1. I doubt displayport 1.4 to hdmi 2.1 adapters will support vrr sadly but there’s no way I’m paying 2k for a teeny 4k monitor with gsync ultimate. I’m way more likely to get a 3000 series nvidia card that can play games in a locked 60 or 120hz than an overpriced monitor that’s barely as good as a $1500 tv

Yeap these prices are too much for me too but that is the marketing G-Sync aim since release.

And it is not only about the G-Sync module... nVidia has some serious requirements to a monitor receive the module so it end being a premium hardware device... there is no low or mid-range monitor with G-Sync module... just the high-end monitors receive the module.

That is exactly why G-Sync monitors are considered premium devices and why it will continue having it niche market even after VESA Adaptive Sync standard.

nVidia basically covered all sides... err I mean markets.