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Nvidia Kills FreeSync, Intel "Meets Competition"

Ascend

Member


Summary:

Nvidia is doing shady stuff by forcing out the AMD FreeSync name on monitors and forcing GSync Compatible instead. AMD is just letting that happen...

Intel claiming their recent 50% price drop is to help customers upgrade and is in no way a response to AMD being competitive. (like.. seriously...)

Intel back is at it again, with their massive bribes. They are setting aside 3 Billion dollars for "Competitor compensation discount" to partners. They have the funds to buy themselves out of trouble, and with that, buy AMD into trouble.
 
I miss thelastword thelastword ..........because he would always use a million ellipses to end his sentences............and he was responsible for the best AMD threads here...........

Regarding the actual topic, no one ever cared about Freesync because AMD's market share was dismal in video cards for many years and also AMD never bothered to have any standards for certifying Freesync the way Nvidia did with G-Sync. Many monitors which were labeled as Freesync compatible simply didn't work right in any VRR mode but it didn't matter since hardly anyone owned AMD video cards for the better part of a decade. Now Nvidia is actually doing the actual work of testing and certifying Freesync monitors as being "G-Sync Compatible" which means Nvidia actually checked to make sure the monitor works properly in VRR modes, and of course monitor manufacturers are going to rush to advertise they support that if they actually pass Nvidia's certification process.

AdoredTV is a bad joke btw, he was the guy who was making wild claims about 5 ghz Zen 2 before it launched.
 
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Any proof that Nvidia is doing shady stuff? Maybe the manufacturers would rather be known as "Gsync compatible monitors" than "freesync monitors"?

And let me get this straight.... Intel is doing something wrong by lowering their prices to the point where people would rather buy their products rather than the competitions "better" cpus? "Meeting competition discount" meaning $3 billion worth of discounts to persuade partners to use your product and not the competition?

So... selling things cheaper so that people buy them is... bribing?

lol ok OP.
 

TUROK

Member
And amd is a fucking joke in gpu land
200.webp
 

rofif

Can’t Git Gud
I don't care what label it has but Freesync finally works on nvidia... that' important. On my 4k monitor, 40-60hz freesync range is a blessing
 

Soltype

Member
Hoping they can win with the branding and bring higher standards across the board.For all the flack Nvidia caught with their pricing, Gsync is a superior solution.
 
Hoping they can win with the branding and bring higher standards across the board.For all the flack Nvidia caught with their pricing, Gsync is a superior solution.
I agree on latter part. Gsync monitors are still the only ones with a guaranteed 30Hz synced refresh. I do think it's manufactures whose taking advantage of gsync name and just calling basic freesync monitors gsync compatible since majority of them only drops to 48 Hz just like freesync ones.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...esync-monitors-for-nvidia-graphics-cards-7044
 

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Hoping they can win with the branding and bring higher standards across the board.For all the flack Nvidia caught with their pricing, Gsync is a superior solution.
Given the cost premium of true GSync over Freesync (G-Sync compatible) it had better be superior.
 

Ascend

Member
It surprises me that no one is shunning nVidia for this... And even worse, reactions like these...;

good riddance
Who cared about freesync anyway...

Good riddance? FreeSync is not gone. nVidia has COPIED the solution and renamed it "G-Sync compatible". Why? Because their proprietary G-Sync solution lost to it.

Who cared about FreeSync? Apparently Samsung (their TVs support FreeSync), Microsoft (Xbox supports FreeSync), and yes, nVidia, because they were forced to adopt it since the FreeSync implementation got way more popular than their own G-Sync solution.

But yeah... People really have blinders on apparently. Keep it that way. Soon, you'll be paying G-Sync prices for G-Sync compatible (AKA FreeSync) monitors. I hope you and your wallet enjoy that.
 

Woo-Fu

Banned
AMD doesn't care because they market on bang for buck, not overpriced proprietary features like G-Sync and RTX. You'll notice that FreeSync is royalty-free and free to use.
 

ethomaz

Banned
It surprises me that no one is shunning nVidia for this... And even worse, reactions like these...;




Good riddance? FreeSync is not gone. nVidia has COPIED the solution and renamed it "G-Sync compatible". Why? Because their proprietary G-Sync solution lost to it.

Who cared about FreeSync? Apparently Samsung (their TVs support FreeSync), Microsoft (Xbox supports FreeSync), and yes, nVidia, because they were forced to adopt it since the FreeSync implementation got way more popular than their own G-Sync solution.

But yeah... People really have blinders on apparently. Keep it that way. Soon, you'll be paying G-Sync prices for G-Sync compatible (AKA FreeSync) monitors. I hope you and your wallet enjoy that.
Copied? I have the impression nVidia just allowed G-Sync for laptops launched in 2015 to work with desktops GPUS.
 

Ascend

Member
AMD doesn't care because they market on bang for buck, not overpriced proprietary features like G-Sync and RTX. You'll notice that FreeSync is royalty-free and free to use.
I don't think you understood what is happening. Monitors that were first labeled as FreeSync monitors are now being labeled as "G-Sync compatible", and have the FreeSync label removed completely, or replaced with "adaptive sync". We're not talking about new monitors being released. We're talking about monitors that always carried the FreeSync label, and now don't anymore. All of AMD's efforts to bring an alternative to nVidia's closed and highly priced G-Sync, are now being overtaken by nVidia.

Some have argued it's the typical "Embrace, Extend, Extinguish" strategy being used by nVidia, and I tend to agree;

"Embrace, extend, extinguish is a strategy by tech companies to defend against open standards. Embrace the standards process by participating. Extend with proprietary IP that becomes integral to the new standards. Extinguish the value of the new standards when the whole becomes controlled by or tainted by the proprietary IP contributions. "

And somehow people are touting this as a good thing... Man... PC gaming is already in a critical state. No wonder things just keep getting worse, when the majority are so apathetic.

But in any case, you say AMD doesn't care. If AMD doesn't care, they're stupid. If there is one thing that added to their mind share at least a little bit, it was FreeSync. But that has now been hijacked. I don't think they don't care, but rather, they are unaware that this is happening, or, they don't have the funds to do anything about it at this point.

Copied? I have the impression nVidia just allowed G-Sync for laptops launched in 2015 to work with desktops GPUS.
FreeSync was released in March 2015.
 

ethomaz

Banned
FreeSync was released in March 2015.
And somehow nVidia copied in less than two months lol
Just because AMD give the name FreeSync for it implementation of Adaptive Sync doesn't mean nVidia didn't have Adaptive Sync before.

nVidia unlocking Adaptive Sync for desktop GPUs has more to do with VESA Adaptive-Sync standard than AMD Adaptive-Sync called Freesync.
 
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Dane

Member
If being a joke means offering the best bang for buck at the $350 -$400 price points then it's the best joke in years since PC culture has killed comedy.

It surprises me that no one is shunning nVidia for this... And even worse, reactions like these...;




Good riddance? FreeSync is not gone. nVidia has COPIED the solution and renamed it "G-Sync compatible". Why? Because their proprietary G-Sync solution lost to it.

Who cared about FreeSync? Apparently Samsung (their TVs support FreeSync), Microsoft (Xbox supports FreeSync), and yes, nVidia, because they were forced to adopt it since the FreeSync implementation got way more popular than their own G-Sync solution.

But yeah... People really have blinders on apparently. Keep it that way. Soon, you'll be paying G-Sync prices for G-Sync compatible (AKA FreeSync) monitors. I hope you and your wallet enjoy that.

That's why they deserve stuff like that, including Kabylake
 

Ascend

Member
And G-sync is from 2013
Yes, with their proprietary module.

nVidia unlocking Adaptive Sync for desktop GPUs has more to do with VESA Adaptive-Sync standard than AMD Adaptive-Sync called Freesync.
No. It has everything to do with AMD bringing FreeSync to the desktop. Otherwise, only nVidia's proprietary module would have been available on the desktop. nVidia was not planning on supporting the VESA adaptive sync on the desktop (why else would it have taken so long for them to support it?), because they wanted to milk their customers and believed that G-Sync was so superior to FreeSync that they would win out, which they didn't. So now, they changed strategies.
 

ethomaz

Banned
No. It has everything to do with AMD bringing FreeSync to the desktop. Otherwise, only nVidia's proprietary module would have been available on the desktop. nVidia was not planning on supporting the VESA adaptive sync on the desktop (why else would it have taken so long for them to support it?), because they wanted to milk their customers and believed that G-Sync was so superior to FreeSync that they would win out, which they didn't. So now, they changed strategies.
?

VESA Adaptive Sync is part of HDMI 2.1 and DisplayPort 1.2 and nVidia needs to implement it.
In future versions of these standards it will be even forced to implement if it is not already forced in DisplayPort 1.2.
 
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PhoenixTank

Member
And let me get this straight.... Intel is doing something wrong by lowering their prices to the point where people would rather buy their products rather than the competitions "better" cpus? "Meeting competition discount" meaning $3 billion worth of discounts to persuade partners to use your product and not the competition?

So... selling things cheaper so that people buy them is... bribing?

lol ok OP.
Bribes? Not really evidence of that yet, no. Devil is in the details as to what is/isn't going on.
I honestly think someone is trolling Adored with the image he was sent but it wouldn't be the first time Intel has done something along these lines if true.
Required history lesson - Your post seems to suggest that you are unaware of this?

Competition is good, e.g. the recent price changes for Cascade Lake X. Using larger cash reserves to sell products at (or near) a loss in order to outlast your competitors is predatory and anti-competitive. Once the competitors are gone, prices go back up: so short term might be nice for customers but it is all made back and more in the long term.

Again, I think the person who sent this was trying to stir up shit, but if Intel are returning to those old ways there needs to be a far faster response this time to avoid damaging the market for another decade and a half.
 

Ascend

Member
?

VESA Adaptive Sync is part of HDMI 2.1 and DisplayPort 1.2 and nVidia needs to implement it.
To this day, nVidia does not support Adaptive Sync over HDMI. In other words, only AMD can enable FreeSync (AKA VESA Adaptive Sync) over both HDMI and DisplayPort. nVidia only supports VESA Adaptive Sync over DisplayPort. "nVidia needs to implement it" is a lie.

This is exactly why Xbox and Samsung support FreeSync, because it can be done through HDMI. This makes nVidia's "G-Sync compatible" hijacking of FreeSync all the more absurd, since it is actually more limiting than FreeSync. Granted, not all monitors can do it through HDMI, but that's another story for another time.

Required history lesson - Your post seems to suggest that you are unaware of this?
Not at all. But do you really think that 1.5 billion hurt Intel?
 
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ethomaz

Banned
To this day, nVidia does not support Adaptive Sync over HDMI. In other words, only AMD can enable FreeSync (AKA VESA Adaptive Sync) over both HDMI and DisplayPort. nVidia only supports VESA Adaptive Sync over DisplayPort. "nVidia needs to implement it" is a lie.

This is exactly why Xbox and Samsung support FreeSync, because it can be done through HDMI. This makes nVidia's "G-Sync compatible" hijacking of FreeSync all the more absurd, since it is actually more limiting than FreeSync. Granted, not all monitors can do it through HDMI, but that's another story for another time.
It needs.

It is only optional in HDMI 2.1 because it is a new feature... the next versions it won't be optional anymore.
That is exactly why nVidia allowed their Adaptive Sync solution to be used in desktop cards.
Samsung supporting FreeSync is a transition phase... new monitor and TVs will support the standard VESA Adaptive Sync found in HDMI 2.1+ and DisplayPort 1.2+.

Next Xbox and PS5 will probably support HDMI 2.1 VESA Adaptive Sync and not FreeSync.
It is the standard.
 
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Gavin Stevens

Formerly 'o'dium'
I’ve been looking for a decent 27/28” g-sync/freesync monitor for ages, 1440p, no HDR as it’s a bag of bollocks.., Everything I find seems to be 50/50 on pros and cons...

One day I may just bloody fine one...
 

ethomaz

Banned
Look what AnandTech wrote about G-sync compatible.

"NVIDIA has internally supported VESA Adaptive Sync for a couple of years now; rather than putting G-Sync modules in laptops, they’ve used what’s essentially a form of Adaptive Sync to enable “G-Sync” on laptops. As a result we’ve known for some time now that NVIDIA could support VESA Adaptive Sync if they wanted to, however until now they haven’t done this.

Coming next week, this is changing. On January 15th, NVIDIA will be releasing a new driver that enables VESA Adaptive Sync support on GeForce GTX 10 and GeForce RTX 20 series (i.e. Pascal and newer) cards."


Like I said the nVidia move was about supporting the VESA standard that they can't avoid it.
 
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Ascend

Member
It is only optional in HDMI 2.1 because it is a new feature... the next versions it won't be optional anymore.
Actually, it is a mandatory feature of HDMI 2.1. The point is that AMD has been supporting it before it was mandatory.

Next Xbox and PS5 will probably support HDMI 2.1 VESA Adaptive Sync and not FreeSync.
You don't seem to understand that FreeSync and VESA Adaptive Sync are the same thing. FreeSync is AMD's branding of their VESA Adaptive Sync implementation on their GPUs. And considering that the consoles will most likely use HDMI rather than DP, and use AMD hardware, it is more accurately labeled as FreeSync than anything else.

Like I said the nVidia move was about supporting the VESA standard that they can't avoid it.
Ok. I found this article, that states exactly that;

"With HDMI 2.1, VRR support becomes a mandatory feature of the standard, forcing both TV makers and device makers to adopt support for variable refresh rates. Let's be clear, this is why Nvidia is supporting HDMI VRR. They have to support it to fully support HDMI 2.1. "

Then again... Is that a positive thing? In this case, nVidia is only giving this to you because they are forced to. Is that a better picture than AMD that has been supporting it before it was forced?

And from that same article;
"AMD has already promised to add HDMI 2.1 VRR support to its Radeon Software drivers. At the time of writing Radeon FreeSync and FreeSync 2 support is already available on a number of Samsung TVs. "

And from your own Anandtech article and your own quote, you didn't highlight the most important point;

"As a result we’ve known for some time now that NVIDIA could support VESA Adaptive Sync if they wanted to, however until now they haven’t done this. "

In other words, they were holding out on their users because they wanted to sell their own stuff. Do you really think VRR would have become a mandatory feature if AMD did not push FreeSync? Honest question.
 

dirthead

Banned
Actually, it is a mandatory feature of HDMI 2.1. The point is that AMD has been supporting it before it was mandatory.


You don't seem to understand that FreeSync and VESA Adaptive Sync are the same thing. FreeSync is AMD's branding of their VESA Adaptive Sync implementation on their GPUs. And considering that the consoles will most likely use HDMI rather than DP, and use AMD hardware, it is more accurately labeled as FreeSync than anything else.


Ok. I found this article, that states exactly that;

"With HDMI 2.1, VRR support becomes a mandatory feature of the standard, forcing both TV makers and device makers to adopt support for variable refresh rates. Let's be clear, this is why Nvidia is supporting HDMI VRR. They have to support it to fully support HDMI 2.1. "

Then again... Is that a positive thing? In this case, nVidia is only giving this to you because they are forced to. Is that a better picture than AMD that has been supporting it before it was forced?

And from that same article;
"AMD has already promised to add HDMI 2.1 VRR support to its Radeon Software drivers. At the time of writing Radeon FreeSync and FreeSync 2 support is already available on a number of Samsung TVs. "

And from your own Anandtech article and your own quote, you didn't highlight the most important point;

"As a result we’ve known for some time now that NVIDIA could support VESA Adaptive Sync if they wanted to, however until now they haven’t done this. "

In other words, they were holding out on their users because they wanted to sell their own stuff. Do you really think VRR would have become a mandatory feature if AMD did not push FreeSync? Honest question.

Do you really think FreeSync would even have been a thing if Nvidia hadn't capitalized on it first? They're the ones that seized the opportunity first and made variable refresh a talking point for people buying video cards. AMD just jumped on the bandwagon. People seem to be forgetting that G-Sync was FIRST to the market and made it an issue to begin with. And that sums up AMD's problem: they're followers always late to the party. If they had any brains they would have beat G-Sync to the market with FreeSync, and G-Sync wouldn't have even got off the ground. But nope, they didn't see it, they were late to the party, and here we are.

Hopefully HDMI 2.1 washes away all this shittiness regardless.
 

PhoenixTank

Member
Not at all. But do you really think that 1.5 billion hurt Intel?
Sorry for any potential confusion, my post was directed at Remij, though good background for anyone to read.
I'd say the fines were too little too late and the damage was done, with healthy competition only recently returning after many years.
 

Ascend

Member
Sorry for any potential confusion, my post was directed at Remij, though good background for anyone to read.
I'd say the fines were too little too late and the damage was done, with healthy competition only recently returning after many years.
Ah. He's on my ignore list. I guess that's why it seemed like you were quoting me.

Thanks for posting that. That might help people understand the severity of the situation.
I will never understand why people love to hate on AMD though, but that's another story for another time.
 

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
You don't seem to understand that FreeSync and VESA Adaptive Sync are the same thing. FreeSync is AMD's branding of their VESA Adaptive Sync implementation on their GPUs. And considering that the consoles will most likely use HDMI rather than DP, and use AMD hardware, it is more accurately labeled as FreeSync than anything else.

Not exactly. They accomplish and do the same thing, but you can support one without the other.

Given that nvidia and AMD have announced support for HDMI 2.1 (current Turing cards have support on LG OLEDs) I suspect that Freesync will remain supported until the vast majority of displays support HDMI 2.1 and/or Display Port 2.0.

I have already decided I wont upgrade my monitor until full DP 2.0 implementation.
 
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ethomaz

Banned
Not exactly. They accomplish and do the same thing, but you can support one without the other.

Given that nvidia and AMD have announced support for HDMI 2.1 (current Turing cards have support on LG OLEDs) I suspect that Freesync will remain supported until the vast majority of displays support HDMI 2.1 and/or Display Port 2.0.

I have already decided I wont upgrade my monitor until full DP 2.0 implementation.
That is the point... I believe FreeSync won't go forward (neither supported by AMD) with HDMI 2.1 VRR and DP 1.2 VRR being mandatory... TVs and monitors will just implement VRR that are supported by nVidia and AMD cards... so why bother implementing FreeSync too?

While G-Sync will continue being the premium option for PC monitors and exclusively supported by nVidia cards only... and not only because the G-Sync but any monitor to receive the G-Sync module needs to match a series of features and quality level... in simple terms the best monitors in the market are G-Sync.

AMD FreeSync is a transition tech used in TV/Monitor that didn't support VRR yet.
When all TVs are HDMI 2.1 and monitors DP 1.2 or superior they will only support VRR.

VESA VRR directly made FreeSync obsolete while it is not the same case with Gsync that will continue being the premium option like nVidia wants.
 
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Soltype

Member
What I find crazy is PC gamers and enthusiasts getting mad at Nvidia for offering a premium product.I want bleeding edge, not "good enough".
 

GamingKaiju

Member
I’m in the market for a G-sync monitor but they’re fucking expensive but no screen tearing is too good to miss out on. Hopefully 1 day soon I can get one.
 

Ascend

Member
Not exactly. They accomplish and do the same thing, but you can support one without the other.

Given that nvidia and AMD have announced support for HDMI 2.1 (current Turing cards have support on LG OLEDs) I suspect that Freesync will remain supported until the vast majority of displays support HDMI 2.1 and/or Display Port 2.0.
And what are the chances of VRR carrying only the nVidia label and not the AMD label? Ideally, both will disappear, but I have a feeling that's not how it's going to turn out....

That is the point... I believe FreeSync won't go forward (neither supported by AMD) with HDMI 2.1 VRR and DP 1.2 VRR being mandatory... TVs and monitors will just implement VRR that are supported by nVidia and AMD cards... so why bother implementing FreeSync too?
Maybe because it's cheaper? I for example don't see Samsung implementing HDMI 2.1 on their budget TVs like the 6000 or even the 7000 series. Their Q stuff will be the ones to get VRR. Since a huge part of their line-up already has FreeSync, there is little reason to remove it from the ones that will not be upgraded to HDMI 2.1 VRR.

While G-Sync will continue being the premium option for PC monitors and exclusively supported by nVidia cards only... and not only because the G-Sync but any monitor to receive the G-Sync module needs to match a series of features and quality level... in simple terms the best monitors in the market are G-Sync.
If VRR is what it's touted to be, G-Sync will be equally as dead as FreeSync. VRR has a lower limit of 24Hz, which is more than fine.

AMD FreeSync is a transition tech used in TV/Monitor that didn't support VRR yet.
Isn't that same thing true of G-Sync?

When all TVs are HDMI 2.1 and monitors DP 1.2 or superior they will only support VRR.
And you say this based on what? There is nothing limiting the use of 'traditional' FreeSync, considering the scalar needs to be superior for HDMI 2.1 VRR anyway. And since the new HDMI 2.1 standard will incorporate everything the old standard has, there is nothing to suggest that FreeSync will stop to exist.

VESA VRR directly made FreeSync obsolete while it is not the same case with Gsync that will continue being the premium option like nVidia wants.
VESA VRR is VESA Adaptive Sync. HDMI 2.1 VRR is another spec entirely. As for G-Sync continuing to be the premium option, I doubt it, considering it lost to the so-called "inferior" FreeSync.

But I guess you were successful in diverting the point of the thread, which I assume was your whole goal, considering you've deliberately avoided talking about the issue at hand.
 

Kenpachii

Member
This is pretty smart actually.

Nvidia now sells overpriced gsync screens without the need for any of the gsync hardware and costs.
 
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