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[Bumblebeetuna]

You seem to have the same issue. Halo was AAA but it was missing content that Halo usually had in previous generations where games were cheaper to make.

Halo Infinite is a AAA game that went through development hell. Every rumor about the games budget points to it having a super large budget. You think you’re making some grand point about cheaply made games but you’re using probably the worst example imaginable from Xbox.

If you think they cost as much as Starfield (you did mention it later but see my further list) or God of War be my guest lol.

You don’t know Starfields budget or the budget of the other games. And who cares either way? You mentioned God of War, well it doesn’t have the budget of Star Citizen so I guess it must be AA.

Gears 5 and Halo Infinite are two examples. You've been a member here since 2008, pretty sure you can remember the ones about Halo. Last gears wasn't mentioned online that much but it had mtx that the previous games didn't. You can search it online (lootboxes). You can also see a crowbcat video where 360 gears had more attention to detail though that could be a talent issue. Not sure about Forza Horizon since it's not a title I'm that interested about. Redfall is AAA according to xbox but that's like saying destruction all stars is AAA, and there's really not many AAA games. When it comes to the upcoming games, we've yet to see how iD's next game and Indiana Jones look like, but besides Starfield I don't see the AAA in the other ones. Clockwork and Avowed are supposedly AAA but don't look like one. Hellblade 2 looks like it graphically, but the previous game looked awesome but it was considered an indie game. Perfect Dark was claimed to be AAAA but MS likes to throw these A like they mean what they mean when they're not that. We need to see Fable's gameplay. For now, it's just Starfield until we see something maybe for 2025?

Halo Infinite is a AAA game. You keep referencing Halo in regard to F2P design, the MP is literally F2P. Yes, you’re finally right about something. F2P titles are designed to be F2P. Bravo.

Gears 5 is also AAA and isn’t designed like a F2P title at all. It had scummy monetization in some aspects, lots of titles did. Even titles from Sony and Nintendo, and last I checked they don’t have GamePass. Your issue is with the monetization practices that affect the entire industry, not GamePass.

So you can see making the game cheaper to access creates those problems. I know a lot of friends that play free to play games. Most of them do not spend a dime. Whales carry those games.

There’s nothing “cheaper” about those games. You keep mentioning it like it’s fact. It’s your ignorant opinion.

Doesn't have to surpass Starfield, but Re4, sf6, sw jedi, alan wake 2, spider-man 2, ff16, avatar, assassin creed mirage (though it's $50) and a few others came out this year alone and those games have a scope of a AAA game. I don't see that as barely. I don't see Avowed or Clockwork having those kind of budgets.

Cool story, bro. Why do I care that you don’t think Avowed has the budget of Spider-Man 2?

I don't see it as a fanfic. I provided evidence what happens to games that are cheap to access and how the economy or the budget of those games are affected. Just give it more time if there aren't enough examples for you (state of decay 2, sea of thieves, grounded, pentinent, hi-fi rush, psychonauts 2, bleeding edge and other low budget games plus the AAA games I've talked about, plus big third party games like the games I mentioned above that came out this year not being on gamepass day 1 because I bet it would cost MS a lot).

You didn’t provide evidence of anything. Throwing out your belief that game A or game B were “cheaply made” just shows you don’t really know anything.

And yes, that’s a great list of AA titles from Microsoft. Those titles were priced as AA titles. What do those have to do with all of the AAA games MS has also released, and will release in the future?

I know it seems like console warrioring for you, but I also worry about sony and nintendo following this route. I prefer the premium way of consuming this hobby. It also creates competition because you are fighting for someone's money and time, and not just time.

You’re still fighting for money even if your customers are consuming games via a subscription. All of these GamePass games are also available via “premium way of consuming this hobby”. What an elitist crock of shit statement that was, by the way

Not going to bother responding anymore to the warrior who thinks Forza Horizon is a AA sim racer.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

Microsoft said just 3 months ago there would be no price increase. They lied to us. https://gamerant.com/xbox-game-pass-price-increase-activision-blizzard-deal/

They said they wouldn’t increase the price BECAUSE of the merger, which hasn’t even been approved, and is likely to fail.

we heard for years from people who thought they were super smart, that MS was going to increase the price any day now, even though we all knew they would, because that’s how these services work. But now they finally increase the price and omg they’re totes liars!

Suddenly the idea that they’d increase the price was unimaginable. How strange.

 

[RevGaming]

Halo Infinite is a AAA game that went through development hell. Every rumor about the games budget points to it having a super large budget. You think you’re making some grand point about cheaply made games but you’re using probably the worst example imaginable from Xbox.

That's even more scary when you added with what I said.

You don’t know Starfields budget or the budget of the other games. And who cares either way? You mentioned God of War, well it doesn’t have the budget of Star Citizen so I guess it must be AA.

Lmao. I never said it has to a certain amount, but you can clearly see a game could played or looked better if it had better budget. When I look at Avowed, it doesn't even look like a last gen game visually. Gameplay might be unga bunga like Skyrim or Outerworlds.

Halo Infinite is a AAA game. You keep referencing Halo in regard to F2P design, the MP is literally F2P. Yes, you’re finally right about something. F2P titles are designed to be F2P. Bravo.

Lol. You keep forgetting the main point. If kind of free to play games is what you want, good. You get what you paid ($17) or not paid for. $17 is too little to the point is almost free and you get $20 mtx because of that.

Gears 5 is also AAA and isn’t designed like a F2P title at all. It had scummy monetization in some aspects, lots of titles did. Even titles from Sony and Nintendo, and last I checked they don’t have GamePass. Your issue is with the monetization practices that affect the entire industry, not GamePass.

They'll go even harder if they don't sell games for $70. Idk which sony games. Uncharted 4? You get an amazing sp experience. You buy it for that.

There’s nothing “cheaper” about those games. You keep mentioning it like it’s fact. It’s your ignorant opinion.

They are lmao.

Cool story, bro. Why do I care that you don’t think Avowed has the budget of Spider-Man 2?

Because it looks mediocre next to it?

You didn’t provide evidence of anything. Throwing out your belief that game A or game B were “cheaply made” just shows you don’t really know anything.

And yes, that’s a great list of AA titles from Microsoft. Those titles were priced as AA titles. What do those have to do with all of the AAA games MS has also released, and will release in the future?

That they should always go AAA. They are a console manufacturer. They are not allowed to release mostly indies if they want to compete.

You’re still fighting for money even if your customers are consuming games via a subscription. All of these GamePass games are also available via “premium way of consuming this hobby”. What an elitist crock of shit statement that was, by the way

Not going to bother responding anymore to the warrior who thinks Forza Horizon is a AA sim racer.

Ofc lol. $60-70 single player games will always be better than sub or free to play single player, unless someone wants to take a financial hit which xbox is doing with Starfield.

I never said forza is AA lol. I said it was easier to make.

 

[RevGaming]

Halo Infinite is a AAA game that went through development hell. Every rumor about the games budget points to it having a super large budget. You think you’re making some grand point about cheaply made games but you’re using probably the worst example imaginable from Xbox.

That's even more scary when you added with what I said.

You don’t know Starfields budget or the budget of the other games. And who cares either way? You mentioned God of War, well it doesn’t have the budget of Star Citizen so I guess it must be AA.

Lmao. I never said it has to a certain amount, but you can clearly see a game could played or looked better if it had better budget. When I look at Avowed, it doesn't even look like a last gen game visually. Gameplay might be unga bunga like Skyrim or Outerworlds.

Halo Infinite is a AAA game. You keep referencing Halo in regard to F2P design, the MP is literally F2P. Yes, you’re finally right about something. F2P titles are designed to be F2P. Bravo.

Lol. You keep forgetting the main point. If kind of free to play games is what you want, good. You get what you paid ($17) or not paid for. $17 is too little to the point is almost free and you get $20 mtx because of that.

Gears 5 is also AAA and isn’t designed like a F2P title at all. It had scummy monetization in some aspects, lots of titles did. Even titles from Sony and Nintendo, and last I checked they don’t have GamePass. Your issue is with the monetization practices that affect the entire industry, not GamePass.

They'll go even harder if they don't sell games for $70. Idk which sony games. Uncharted 4? You get an amazing sp experience. You buy it for that.

There’s nothing “cheaper” about those games. You keep mentioning it like it’s fact. It’s your ignorant opinion.

They are lmao.

Cool story, bro. Why do I care that you don’t think Avowed has the budget of Spider-Man 2?

Because it looks mediocre next to it?

You didn’t provide evidence of anything. Throwing out your belief that game A or game B were “cheaply made” just shows you don’t really know anything.

And yes, that’s a great list of AA titles from Microsoft. Those titles were priced as AA titles. What do those have to do with all of the AAA games MS has also released, and will release in the future?

That they should always go AAA. They are a console manufacturer. They are not allowed to release mostly indies if they want to compete.

You’re still fighting for money even if your customers are consuming games via a subscription. All of these GamePass games are also available via “premium way of consuming this hobby”. What an elitist crock of shit statement that was, by the way

Not going to bother responding anymore to the warrior who thinks Forza Horizon is a AA sim racer.

Ofc lol. $60-70 single player games will always be better than sub or free to play single player, unless

I never said forza is AA lol. I said it was easier to make, meaning you don't have to spend a lot for that particular genre vs other genres like rpgs, shooters etc.

 

[Nydius]

All of these GamePass games are also available via “premium way of consuming this hobby”.

By Microsoft's own admission, Game Pass cannibalizes game sales. So while there is a 'premium' way of buying a game like Starfield, the reality is most people will either play it via subscription, or pay for a trial subscription and play for a month then leave the subscription. Fewer people buy games because they have the perception of getting them "free" as part of their subscription. It takes a single Game Pass subscription 4.5 months to generate the same revenue as a day one sale -- and that's operating under the assumption that the user plays only one game (edit: and that they've paid full retail for Game Pass, which most savvy Xbox gamers don't do). If they play more than one, that timeframe increases. Why do you think Microsoft has started this new "buy early access for $30!" plan for both Starfield and Forza? They know they have to find more ways to monetize their Game Pass userbase in the face of slumping sales.

Assuming they don't cave in a few years and decide to port it multiplatform, it's going to take Microsoft several years for sales of Starfield to match the sales of games like GOW Ragnarok or Horizon Forbidden West. If you don't think that has a deleterious effect on games development, well, I've got oceanfront property in Arizona for sale.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

By Microsoft's own admission, Game Pass cannibalizes game sales. So while there is a 'premium' way of buying a game like Starfield, the reality is most people will either play it via subscription, or pay for a trial subscription and play for a month then leave the subscription. Fewer people buy games because they have the perception of getting them "free" as part of their subscription. It takes a single Game Pass subscription 4.5 months to generate the same revenue as a day one sale -- and that's operating under the assumption that the user plays only one game (edit: and that they've paid full retail for Game Pass, which most savvy Xbox gamers don't do). If they play more than one, that timeframe increases. Why do you think Microsoft has started this new "buy early access for $30!" plan for both Starfield and Forza? They know they have to find more ways to monetize their Game Pass userbase in the face of slumping sales.

Assuming they don't cave in a few years and decide to port it multiplatform, it's going to take Microsoft several years for sales of Starfield to match the sales of games like GOW Ragnarok or Horizon Forbidden West. If you don't think that has a deleterious effect on games development, well, I've got oceanfront property in Arizona for sale.

GamePass accounts for 10-15% of their revenue last time they shared information. “Most people” will still buy the game.

Microsoft also says GamePass is profitable for them. For some reason though people want to pick and choose when to believe what MS says.

 

[adamsapple]

That they should always go AAA. They are a console manufacturer. They are not allowed to release mostly indies if they want to compete.

Bumblebeetuna godspeed to you for tackling these posts point by point.

 

[II_JumPeR_I]

Would be great if they could also increase better game releases

 

[Robins]

With these services you should expect a price increase every 1-2 years. I don't see why some of shocked, look at Netflix...

 

[RevGaming]

Bumblebeetuna godspeed to you for tackling these posts point by point.

If xbox would only release indies and double A, they would be gone by the end of the gen. Like I said, you like to pick and choose from what I say. You are a waste of time.

 

[Mozza]

Why we are surprised by any of this is a mystery, this is Microsoft's core business model, a subscription based service.

 

[Silver Wattle]

 

[Fuz]

I'll worry about it in three years i guess

When it'll be too late?

 

[SenkiDala]

I get the raise of the gamepass sub, but the console in all Europe and most countries is insane and dumb. I can just talk for France because it's where I live but here MS has never really made advertisement, especially since the Xbox One when you feel they just gave up, they could advertise the GP everywhere and people would love it, but no, they don't advertise it anywhere except on their local Twitter account...

So now, knowing that the XSX is not selling well at all here, thinking "dudes I have an idea... They don't buy it at 499€, why not making it 549€ ? Great idea huh ?"... It is just unbelievable, they just don't want to sell it in Europe, the people who make those decisions are paid by Sony, what else can it be ?

The GameCube came out at 199€ here in May 2002, and Nintendo seeing it wasn't selling well (still a mystery to me, at that time PlayStation was SO overpowered it was pure insanity), they decided to sell it at 99€. 99 fucking euros for a console that was 1 year and half old.

It's another subject but it's insane to see how the market has changed regarding pricing, not about the fact it's more expensive, the tech evolves, the inflation... But that fact that prices don't go down. The Nintendo Switch is more than 6 YEARS old it is still sold at the same price than day one. The PS5 and XSX are almost 3 years old and the price didn't go down even once, worse : IT GOES UP.

The good part is, if you can afford it, take a console on day one, it is useless to wait a price drop, until next gen.

 

[SLESS]

Has a company with declining sales ever raised prices before?

I vaguely recall Sega did. It worked out great for them.

 

[Gorgon]

That they should always go AAA. They are a console manufacturer. They are not allowed to release mostly indies if they want to compete.

Ofc lol. $60-70 single player games will always be better than sub or free to play single player, unless someone wants to take a financial hit which xbox is doing with Starfield.

I never said forza is AA lol. I said it was easier to make.

Not really. This is like saying that Netflix, HBO, Amazon, etc, would never do expensive TV series like Game of Thrones, The Witcher, The Expanse, etc, because people are on subscription instead of paying per individual series.

Game Pass is like Netflix, etc. What MS wants is to increase the subscription user base because at some critical mass point it pays for itself. Add to that third-party sales and that's what the business is about, in borh cloud and download play. And you do need exclusive quality games for that, just like Netflix, HBO, etc, do.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

Not really. This is like saying that Netflix, HBO, Amazon, etc, would never do expensive TV series like Game of Thrones, The Witcher, The Expanse, etc, because people are on subscription instead of paying per individual series.

Game Pass is like Netflix, etc. What MS wants is to increase the subscription user base because at some critical mass point it pays for itself. Add to that third-party sales and that's what the business is about, in borh cloud and download play. And you do need exclusive quality games for that, just like Netflix, HBO, etc, do.

Plus they still have to sell all of these games outside of the service. The closest thing we have ever seen to them designing something around the GamePass model was when they were discussing episodic games.

 

[twilo99]

 

[RevGaming]

Not really. This is like saying that Netflix, HBO, Amazon, etc, would never do expensive TV series like Game of Thrones, The Witcher, The Expanse, etc, because people are on subscription instead of paying per individual series.

Game Pass is like Netflix, etc. What MS wants is to increase the subscription user base because at some critical mass point it pays for itself. Add to that third-party sales and that's what the business is about, in borh cloud and download play. And you do need exclusive quality games for that, just like Netflix, HBO, etc, do.

Movies are not the same and I'm not getting into all the details about that.

People need to stop comparing the two. Both are consumed veryyy differently.

 

[Banjo64]

TIL spending money is saving money.

 

[Heisenberg007]

TIL spending money is saving money.

The best example of FOMO buying. Paying for years without even looking at the content that you're paying it for.

 

[adamsapple]

TIL spending money is saving money.

Versus keeping auto-renewal enabled, it is a heck of a saving.

 

[pasterpl]

With crazy inflation and rising interest rates for long times now we should give props to MS for holding off price increases so long.

 

[Sleepwalker]

I remember trying the same strategy and topping up 2 years of gamepass back in 2020, the motherfuckers released 0 games I cared about and I only ended up playing FIFA on my xbox (on release not 8 months later when it came to gamepass).

Great savings, never again.

 

[semiconscious]

I remember trying the same strategy and topping up 2 years of gamepass back in 2020, the motherfuckers released 0 games I cared about and I only ended up playing FIFA on my xbox (on release not 8 months later when it came to gamepass).

Great savings, never again.

it used to be called 'pig in a poke'. better to simply pay $10 to play the game you wanna play, & forget the rest...

 

[Rykan]

Microsoft also says GamePass is profitable for them. For some reason though people want to pick and choose when to believe what MS says.

Because it is meaningless without context and without knowing which factors are taken into account.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

Because it is meaningless without context and without knowing which factors are taken into account.

Context and factors

surejan

 

[Rykan]

Context and factors

surejan

Which costs are taken into account? Licensing fees? Hardware costs? Bandwidth? Distribution? Are studio costs developing games for game pass taken into account? Are “lost” sales due to game pass taken into account? Are acquisitions taken into account?

We don't know which factors are taken into account when he made that statement, but there is absolutely no way that Game Pass is even remotely profitable in its current state when ALL cost factors are taken into account.

The only way you can consider it "profitable" is if you remove all the indirect costs, and maybe even some direct costs, and then use this very narrow definition of the term "profitable." Only then could you make that statement, which is undoubtedly what Spencer did here.

But there is no way that Game Pass, when taking everything into account, is profitable now. It's utterly absurd to even think that.

 

[twilo99]

The best example of FOMO buying. Paying for years without even looking at the content that you're paying it for.

I’ve had it for 3 years and the amount of quality entertainment on there is ridiculous to be honest..even if you played games all the time you still wouldn’t run out of content, so based on their track record thus far, I’d be confident in signing up for another 3 years.

 

[cebri.one]

Which costs are taken into account? Licensing fees? Hardware costs? Bandwidth? Distribution? Are studio costs developing games for game pass taken into account? Are "lost" sales due to game pass taken into account? Are acquisitions taken into account?

We don't know which factors are taken into account when he made that statement, but there is absolutely no way that Game Pass is even remotely profitable in its current state when ALL cost factors are taken into account.

This, in no world GP is profitable if you take into account development cost of first party game, third party game licenses + infrastructure. If it's so profitable why they don't disclose the number in their quarterly earnings? Because it's a pit hole, a dumping mechanism to beat competition.

 

[DenchDeckard]

So if I have game pass ultimate until 7th of May 2025...is there a cheap way for me to extend another year now?

Do I just buy one year xbox live then 1 month game pass ultimate?

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

I’ve had it for 3 years and the amount of quality entertainment on there is ridiculous to be honest..even if you played games all the time you still wouldn’t run out of content, so based on their track record thus far, I’d be confident in signing up for another 3 years.

no no no, being satisfied with a product for years and having enough confidence in the quality that you’ll pay for years of service at massive discount is a waste of money and FOMO. Uh yeah

 

[Chukhopops]

I’ve had it for 3 years and the amount of quality entertainment on there is ridiculous to be honest..even if you played games all the time you still wouldn’t run out of content, so based on their track record thus far, I’d be confident in signing up for another 3 years.

It’s a personal decision in the end, either you see value in the service or you don’t. It’s not like anyone can judge the value of a service for others.

I finished 8 GP games this year and paid the price of one AAA game, it’s a good deal for me.

 

[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

TIL spending money is saving money.

Actually mr. leather jacket here says that the more you buy the more you save .

 

[NT80]

First the PS5 and now the Xbox. First time I've ever known consoles to go up in price nearly 3 years after coming out. US/Japan may have avoided those rises but normally by around this time there would be a substantial price cut. Can't imagine there will be a PS5 Pro.

 

[DeepEnigma]

With crazy inflation and rising interest rates for long times now we should give props to MS for holding off price increases so long.

 

[Bonfires Down]

The time of platform holders taking a significant loss on console hardware is pretty much coming to an end. Especially for Microsoft since they are diversifying into PC and cloud so why would they take that loss when they can sell you Game Pass at no loss elsewhere.

 

[dezzy8]

It's inevitable with Starfield on the horizon.

They couldn't do it too near to it's release so this puts some distance between it and the release date.

Sounds like they’re gearing up for an influx of new or returning customers when Starfield releases.

 

[Antwix]

So if I have game pass ultimate until 7th of May 2025...is there a cheap way for me to extend another year now?

Do I just buy one year xbox live then 1 month game pass ultimate?

Nah that method only works if you don't have a game pass sub. You either have to buy additional game pass time or buy Xbox live gold time, but in the case of XBL gold it will be converted when redeemed. I think 1 year of XBL gold only gets you ~3 months of gpu.

 

[Poltz]

Microsoft notches record high valuation of nearly $2.6 trillion

Microsoft Corp shares rose to a new record high close on Thursday as market optimism about the prospects of artificial intelligence (AI) has helped buoy the technology giant to a record market capitalization of $2.59 trillion.

www.reuters.com

Props to MS for holding off for so long.

 

[twilo99]

Just to confirm, as of today, this still works.



I had to cancel my current subscription, so I lost one month, but I wanted to get on board while this is still working so that's okay. Good for another 3 years ... its a HUGE bet on xbox still being around by then but I enjoy taking risks

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

Console would be perfect for me. I don’t play online and I can live without EA games.