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Metro developer: DirectStorage will be very beneficial for PC gaming

M1chl

M1chl

Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Shmunter said:
I really wouldn’t bother with this user. You won’t ever be able to win on facts or logic, it will just go in circles.

I cucked him into slipping and admitting he’s paid to post fud on Sony in a different thread. Likely sitting in some 3rd world shitposting sweatshop getting caned while doing everything on his script to turn the tide against Sony. Not sure how he’s keeping this shit job with the 0/10 performance, lol.

One of these has recently been stripped of their influence and just like that, they are nowhere to be seen, worked as a team in all Sony threads, dumb and dumber.
Click to expand...
Who is paid for saying fud about Sony and more important question, how can I get myself paid to spread FUD about Nintendo. Trust me I have a shit ton of material.

Sauce:

Kingdom Come Deliverance Switch Announcement - YouTube
Click to expand...
I am doing consulting for Nvidia compute and BOY let me tell you stuff....
 
Shmunter

Shmunter

Member
M1chl said:
Who is paid for saying fud about Sony and more important question, how can I get myself paid to spread FUD about Nintendo. Trust me I have a shit ton of material.

Sauce:


I am doing consulting for Nvidia compute and BOY let me tell you stuff....
Click to expand...
I’m not sure you qualify unless you can get by on $10/month and a bowl of gruel
 
Soodanim

Soodanim

Gold Member
Kenpachii said:
Masking loading is very much a console thing, not so much a PC thing.

SSD on consoles is great and a massive jump up from the PS4.
Directstorage is just a minor optimization on PC and that's about it.
Click to expand...
If we’re moving towards a time when the long initial loads even with SSD are gone (GTA5, etc) and games aren’t designed with allowances for lower level hardware, that’s two different improvements I’m all for. One’s more subtle than the other, but I welcome both

If along the way we get even less overhead on the PC side, even better.

Take Skyrim for example. It was massively limited to work on consoles, and you had entire cities blocked off behind loading screens. That big, noticeable thing is no longer a issue because consoles aren’t so limited in spec any more, but there’s also interior spaces that may well have been put behind loading screens because the speed limitations. If we can get to a point where even they go because of the extra speed these improvements bring, then game design gets extra legroom to make seamless worlds.

Can a PC do what R&C does (the portal stuff) at the same speed? I don’t know if that can be done quite so quickly because of the overheads.
 
strange headache

strange headache

Banned
Shmunter said:
I’m the one that cucked you into losing your composure causing you to oust yourself, take it up with me not everyone else. Sheees, you’re pretty bad at this.
Click to expand...

schmuntd6d56c17a9c0e52d.gif
 
martino

martino

Member
Soodanim said:
Can a PC do what R&C does (the portal stuff) at the same speed? I don’t know if that can be done quite so quickly because of the overheads.
Click to expand...
The feature has already been seen in one or two games. the question is more how much ram would you would need in ratchet case and if it becomes too much.
 
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Utherellus

Utherellus

Member
Md Ray said:
And you still haven't shown me a single game on PC that went from 25+ sec load time to 1-2 sec simply switching from HDD to NVMe :messenger_tears_of_joy::messenger_tears_of_joy::messenger_tears_of_joy:. I too have asked you in the other thread, and I'm asking you in this thread. You can admit you were wrong, it's not that hard.

@FranXico had the perfect answer.

About what exactly, explain us? So the 4A senior rendering programmer is wrong too? :messenger_tears_of_joy:
Click to expand...

Dishonored. on HDD it takes about 40-50 seconds. on NVMe game launches in 1-2 secods on my PC.

Star Citizen. 30 seconds on NVMe versus 5-6 minutes on HDD.
 
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Md Ray

Md Ray

Member
strange headache said:
What part of "overhyping marketing talk" did you not understand?
Click to expand...
What part of this is "marketing talk"? Or just because you don't understand what it brings to the table so you assume it's a "marketing talk".

For game devs, this is a massive paradigm shift moving from an asset streaming budget of 50MB/s in prev gen games to a minimum of 2400 MB/s streaming budget for next-gen Microsoft games. PCs with 3.5 GB/s and up will benefit greatly due to this. Reducing load times is just one part of the story here.

Educate yourself by reading the full thing.
DirectStorage is coming to PC | DirectX Developer Blog (microsoft.com)
kbLPHAx.png
 
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Lethal01

Lethal01

Member
strange headache said:
Geezuz how insufferable can you be?
Such "revolutionary" API that it works on frikkin' PCIe 3.0. which came out in 2010. Lay off the buzzwords and your antagonistic platform warrior attitude.
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Because it works with older technology it can't be revolutionary?
What about working with PCIe 3.0 makes you claim it won't provide a lot?
If it only worked with PCIe 4.0 what do you think it would do that it can't do now?
 
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Md Ray

Md Ray

Member
strange headache said:
Geezuz how insufferable can you be?
Such "revolutionary" API that it works on frikkin' PCIe 3.0. which came out in 2010. Lay off the buzzwords and your antagonistic platform warrior attitude.
Click to expand...
You're pointing me towards PCIe 3.0 release date. This has nothing to do with DirectStorage.

The current storage stack (API) in Windows isn't able to fully utilize the bandwidth of the NVMe drives in games. If you've put a 3.5 GB/s drive or a 7 GB/s drive in your PC... It doesn't make a difference in game load times. Does it make sense to you?

This is what DirectStorage API is looking to tackle. Since when is this a bad thing?
 
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strange headache

strange headache

Banned
Md Ray said:
You're pointing me towards PCIe 3.0 release date. This has nothing to do with DirectStorage.

The current storage stack (API) in Windows isn't able to fully utilize the bandwidth of the NVMe drives in games. If you've put a 3.5 GB/s drive or a 7 GB/s drive in your PC... It doesn't make a difference in game load times. Does it make sense to you?

This is what DirectStorage API is looking to tackle. Since when is this a bad thing?
Click to expand...
Lethal01 said:
Because it works with older technology it can't be revolutionary?
What about working with PCIe 3.0 makes you claim it won't provide a lot?
If it only worked with PCIe 4.0 what do you think it would do that it can't do now?
Click to expand...

It tells you that the PC hardware has already been there for over a decade and the software is merely taking advantage of it now. Directstorage was developed for modern consoles that are only now adopting SSD technology.
That is what their new API is all about. PC systems already have large amounts of system memory and ridiculous GPU bandwidth, circumventing many of these issues anyway. Why read from an SSD when you can just store it in memory and take advantage of the full bandwidth of your GPU?

There's a reason why performance gain between an HDD and SSD is noticeable, while an upgrade between SATA SSD and NVMe is only marginal. Modern SSD and NVMe's can already handle multiple queues of I/O requests. Directstorage is there to keep SSDs busy at reduced CPU cost, which will hardly put a dent into modern 12 core CPUs anyway. Yes it will bring a decent boost, but it's not as earth-shattering as you guys hype it up to be.

Nobody is saying that Directstorage is a bad thing, it is indeed a nice optimization.
The claims that certain Unreal demos or PS5 exclusives won't be possible on PC without it are just plain obnoxious, wrong and reek of fanboyism.

P.S.: I'm done with these crappy boneheaded discussions and platform warriors slurping up every marketing buzzword in order to score a silly point for their preferred system.
 
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Md Ray

Md Ray

Member
Utherellus said:
Dishonored. on HDD it takes about 40-50 seconds. on NVMe game launches in 1-2 secods on my PC.

Star Citizen. 30 seconds on NVMe versus 5-6 minutes on HDD.
Click to expand...
Star Citizen literally proves my point as to why DirectStorage is needed.



You have this YT'er testing on a 3.5 GB/s Samsung 970 EVO Plus NVMe vs 0.55 GB/s 860 EVO SSD, and it literally makes no difference in loading time. That NVMe is literally over 6x faster than SATA-based SSD.

In fact, the slower SSD comes in a second or two faster than NVMe...

I can't find any data on Dishonored, I'll be happy if you can provide the data in a video or in a written article form.
 
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EverydayBeast

EverydayBeast

thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
Given how beneficial SSD direct storage has been for PS5 this doesn’t take long to figure out it’s a win for metro and pc gaming.
 
Shmunter

Shmunter

Member
strange headache said:
It tells you that the PC hardware has already been there for over a decade and the software is merely taking advantage of it now. Directstorage was developed for modern consoles that are only now adopting SSD technology.
That is what their new API is all about. PC systems already have large amounts of system memory and ridiculous GPU bandwidth, circumventing many of these issues anyway. Why read from an SSD when you can just store it in memory and take advantage of the full bandwidth of your GPU?

There's a reason why performance gain between an HDD and SSD is noticeable, while an upgrade between SATA SSD and NVMe is only marginal. Modern SSD and NVMe's can already handle multiple queues of I/O requests. Directstorage is there to keep SSDs busy at reduced CPU cost, which will hardly put a dent into modern 12 core CPUs anyway. Yes it will bring a decent boost, but it's not as earth-shattering as you guys hype it up to be.

Nobody is saying that Directstorage is a bad thing, it is indeed a nice optimization.
The claims that certain Unreal demos or PS5 exclusives won't be possible on PC without it are just plain obnoxious, wrong and reek of fanboyism.

P.S.: I'm done with these crappy boneheaded discussions and platform warriors slurping up every marketing buzzword in order to score a silly point for their preferred system.
Click to expand...
What’s your take on decompression in the context of RTX I/O? for example?
 
HTK

HTK

Banned
Gameplay Gods Bless said:
Hell yeah this with RTX IO and the upcoming PCIe 5.0 is gonna rad. PCIe 5.0 will allow 14GBps SSDs, compare that to PS5s 5.5GBps. Shits gonna be get real in these upcoming years.
Click to expand...

Since most devs build their games on consoles first then port them over to PC, how many devs do you actually believe will build and utilize 14GBps specifically for PC?

Another thing to think about...

SSD in PS5 is only 5.5GB/s however every PS5 sold can do 5.5GB/s. How many PC gamers will even buy an SSD that can do 14GBps, I bet not a lot. So why would a dev waste their time?
 
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Md Ray

Md Ray

Member
strange headache said:
It tells you that the PC hardware has already been there for over a decade and the software is merely taking advantage of it now.
Click to expand...
This is only partly true. But SSD is just one piece of the puzzle, you also need fast decompression unit to go with it. PCs do not have dedicated hardware asset decompression units like the consoles. The temporary solution is to fall back to CUDA cores via RTX IO until there's a silicon implementation sometime in the future.
1QNpe1t.png

strange headache said:
Directstorage was developed for modern consoles that are only now adopting SSD technology.
Click to expand...
It is developed for PCs as well. If upgrading to 3.5 GB/s or 7 GB/s NVMe drives were giving you 10x or more improvement in game load times over 500 MB/s SATA-SSD from the get-go, then they wouldn't be bringing these technologies to PC. But sadly, this doesn't happen...

strange headache said:
PC systems already have large amounts of system memory and ridiculous GPU bandwidth, circumventing many of these issues anyway. Why read from an SSD when you can just store it in memory and take advantage of the full bandwidth of your GPU?
Click to expand...
Ah, and here we go again. So Microsoft, NVIDIA must be foolish to develop and bring technologies like RTX IO, SFS, and DirectStorage to PC because... more memory... You could have literally saved them a ton of R&D cash and solved the problem right there, buddy.

That's not how it works. The pipeline between storage and system RAM is still massively slow and has bottlenecks. NVMe drives are nowhere close to being fully saturated with the current ancient storage APIs. Transfering huge amounts of data from storage to fill up all memory is still going to be painfully long if you don't solve the I/O bottleneck that DirectStorage is looking to solve.
strange headache said:
while an upgrade between SATA SSD and NVMe is only marginal.
Click to expand...
You could say it's non-existent in most games. See Star Citizen example above.

Modern NVMe drives are nearly 10x faster than SATA SSD, even faster than that. The SATA SSD was about 10x faster than HDD. So the jump from SSD to NVMe should have been just as big or even larger than the jump from HDD to SSD.

But that isn't the case... Why?

There you go.
 
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Dust-by-Monday

Dust-by-Monday

Member
teezzy said:
You must be so proud of your favorite toy.
Click to expand...
I’m really happy for you though! Soon you’ll be able to do what I’ve been doing since November of last year.

If you can show me an entire open world load in less than 2 seconds on PC, I’ll shut up but as far as I know, it’s currently not even possible to take advantage of high speed NVMe drives to their fullest on current software.

Also ratchet and clank changes entire levels in less than a second. Think about that.
 
teezzy

teezzy

Banned
just-a-spaz said:
I’m really happy for you though! Soon you’ll be able to do what I’ve been doing since November of last year.

If you can show me an entire open world load in less than 2 seconds on PC, I’ll shut up but as far as I know, it’s currently not even possible to take advantage of high speed NVMe drives to their fullest on current software.

Also ratchet and clank changes entire levels in less than a second. Think about that.
Click to expand...

I'm not taking the bait, dude

I've enjoyed so many different consoles over the years from Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft, Sega to the TG16, Colecovision, Intellievision, etc

PC has always been at the forefront, and will continue to be. If Sony has something now which can't be accomplished elsewhere for the time being, then good for them.

Being a weird ass cult member about it isn't going to score you any brownie points as you continue to fork over cash to the Playstation brand. PC players have had SSDs for years... relax bro
 
Brofist

Brofist

Member
just-a-spaz said:
I’m really happy for you though! Soon you’ll be able to do what I’ve been doing since November of last year.

If you can show me an entire open world load in less than 2 seconds on PC, I’ll shut up but as far as I know, it’s currently not even possible to take advantage of high speed NVMe drives to their fullest on current software.

Also ratchet and clank changes entire levels in less than a second. Think about that.
Click to expand...
I'm ok with my game loading in 5 seconds with better ray tracing, frame rates, higher graphical settings, DLSS, etc..., but that's just my personal preference.

The day I see some non gimmicky real world applications of this awesome Sony loading that really can't be done anywhere else I'd have no problem in buying a PS5.
 
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RoadHazard

RoadHazard

Gold Member
Fbh said:
Whitney Houston GIF


I spent a year hearing about the mindblowing revolutionary wonders of SSD on console.
So far they have translated to: Faster loading.
Click to expand...

Yes, loading data faster is exactly what fast storage lets you do. What did you expect, that it would feed your cat?

However, if you're saying that all it has done so far is make loading SCREENS faster, nope, that's not correct. In most games, yes (because most games released so far are cross-gen and not specifically optimized for fast storage solutions), but there are a few examples where it does things that could not be done by just throwing up a 1-minute loading screen. Like R&C. And no, I'm not just talking about the falling through portals thing. That's actually kind of the least impressive use of fast loading in that game.
 
Dust-by-Monday

Dust-by-Monday

Member
Brofist said:
I'm ok with my game loading in 5 seconds with better ray tracing, frame rates, higher graphical settings, DLSS, etc..., but that's just my personal preference.

The day I see some non gimmicky real world applications of this awesome Sony loading that really can't be done anywhere else I'd have no problem in buying a PS5.
Click to expand...
That's not what I was talking about. I never said the PS5 is better than a PC. I'm only talking about the SSD performance boost that you'll get from direct storage, something the PS5 has had since launch. Welcome to the club man! It's friggin sweet tech!
 
Dust-by-Monday

Dust-by-Monday

Member
The_Mike said:
Yeah, too bad ps5 now has none of what a gaming rig can do, as the only thing they got going was Cerny's ssd system.

"But, muh games, they are worth the platform alone! Pc can't take them from me no one wants to wait to pc!"

5ea2f4.jpg
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I thought that was pretty obvious. I didn't say the PS5 was the best system out there. It's just the best at SSD stuff right now. PC is still playing catch up with I/O stuff and I'm not wrong.
 
Snake29

Snake29

RSI Employee of the Year
teezzy said:
I'm not taking the bait, dude

I've enjoyed so many different consoles over the years from Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft, Sega to the TG16, Colecovision, Intellievision, etc

PC has always been at the forefront, and will continue to be. If Sony has something now which can't be accomplished elsewhere for the time being, then good for them.

Being a weird ass cult member about it isn't going to score you any brownie points as you continue to fork over cash to the Playstation brand. PC players have had SSDs for years... relax bro
Click to expand...

But without the big improvements we now see on PS5 for example. From loading times to asset streaming....
 
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