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[GHG]

Can you help me understand why you believe this?

Besides Star Citizen, the myriad of PC exclusive games released over the past decade haven't even bothered to try to move past mechanical drives and I see no reason for them to.

The easy solution for PC developers is to just raise memory requirements which solves the problem that direct storage is addressing. If they aren't starving for memory, then there is no reason for them to create an SSD requirement because the only difference between an SSD and HDD for gaming at this point is loading times.

First and foremost, the new I/O efficiency shit in consoles addresses their lack of memory which hasn't been a big enough concern for PC gamers.

Explained in a subsequent post. It will be no coincidence that games created with only next gen consoles in mind will start to require SSD's and direct storage on the PC side.

If a developer is doing a multiplatform game it will be created with a minimum spec in mind and that minimum spec is usually the consoles. If you don't believe me have a look at the minimum spec requirements of any multiplatform game that has released over the last generation (PS4/Xbox One), they are all similar and tend to be around the level of the consoles available at the time.

 

[Brofist]

Any game that is based on HDD is because of the console version.



Ps5 is bought by not even %10 of the people who owned ps4. Less than %10. Do you disagree?


PC direct storage will be adopted way faster, because everyone has a SSD and isn't waiting on price shortages, price goulgers, and scalpers. We already have the hardware, just need the software which is currently being deployed. You disagree with any of this?

They look at PC as one huge entity, that is mistake number one.

There are so many different types of PC users, and most don't even come close to overlapping. But for some reason Joe Schmo who spends 99% of his time on the PC on MS Office and plays Minesweeper once in a while is being lumnped with people who play modern graphic intensive games. Office Joe isn't even on the radar of companies making PC games though. PC gamers who are remotely interested in the latest games have the hardware, They have PCIe 3+ SSD, latest GPU, fast CPU etc... These are the people game developers are targeting.

I said it before and I'll say it again. No hardware is holding back anything anyway. It's company's looking to maximize profits that are holding it back. Anyone can easily make a game that caters to the top 5% of PC specs, just as they can make next gen console only games. That won't make the most money though.

Look I get it though. Last year Sony hit hard with the UE5 announcement, and for the first time in who knows how long the console guy had something to brag about on the hardware side. For years these poor guys have been getting teabagged on specs by PC gamers, listening to PCMR shit, so you can feel the years of pent up aggression being let off in these topics cause they got their one bullet point to defend.

 

[Boglin]

Explained in a subsequent post. It will be no coincidence that games created with only next gen consoles in mind will start to require SSD's and direct storage on the PC side.

If a developer is doing a multiplatform game it will be created with a minimum spec in mind and that minimum spec is usually the consoles. If you don't believe me have a look at the minimum spec requirements of any multiplatform game that has released over the last generation (PS4/Xbox One), they are all similar and tend to be around the level of the consoles available at the time.

I apologize for not being more clear. I don't disagree with anything you just said, but that only addresses multiplatform games and not PC exclusives which are not held back by consoles.

Outside of Star Citizen, there are still no PC exclusives that require an SSD. Direct Storage is only just now coming out even though PCs have had SSDs for over a decade and I think it's because with enough memory, PCs simply don't need such a requirement and something like Direct Storage would only help in edge cases.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

I apologize for not being more clear. I don't disagree with anything you just said, but that only addresses multiplatform games and not PC exclusives which are not held back by consoles.

Outside of Star Citizen, there are still no PC exclusives that require an SSD. Direct Storage is only just now coming out even though PCs have had SSDs for over a decade and I think it's because with enough memory, PCs simply don't need such a requirement and something like Direct Storage would only help in edge cases.

I believe it'll only be viable in a year or so. There are no games currently out, that can't run on PC. Literally none. There are no games breaking physics since on consoles that can't be done on PC, or done better. People Warriors don't realize this.

 

[theclaw135]

Everything has changed since 1998. Dreamcast had a more powerful GPU than was available for PC.
Obviously that'll never happen again.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

Everything has changed since 1998. Dreamcast had a more powerful GPU than was available for PC.
Obviously that'll never happen again.

Yeah, consoles have been beaten from a couple of years ago in the GPU department. And this was before the 30XX series, which a lower end card like the 3060 has better performance, not to mention the medium or higher end cards. And this continues on as the generation goes on.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Any game that is based on HDD is because of the console version.



Ps5 is bought by not even %10 of the people who owned ps4. Less than %10. Do you disagree?


PC direct storage will be adopted way faster, because everyone has a SSD and isn't waiting on price shortages, price goulgers, and scalpers. We already have the hardware, just need the software which is currently being deployed. You disagree with any of this?

This isn't true.
HDD's were on the PC before the consoles.
What does the amount of PS5's vs PS4 sales have to do with Direct Storage?

Most don't have the hardware and this will have to be taken into consideration by publishers and devs plus DS is relativity new so like I stated already... it will take some time and expect it to be more for the XB/PC connection.

You have some of the hardware but are limited by software.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

This isn't true.
HDD's were on the PC before the consoles.
What does the amount of PS5's vs PS4 sales have to do with Direct Storage?

Most don't have the hardware and this will have to be taken into consideration by publishers and devs plus DS is relativity new so like I stated already... it will take some time and expect it to be more for the XB/PC connection.

You have some of the hardware but are limited by software.

Any game that is based on HDD is because of the console version.



Ps5 is bought by not even %10 of the people who owned ps4. Less than %10. Do you disagree?


PC direct storage will be adopted way faster, because everyone has a SSD and isn't waiting on price shortages, price goulgers, and scalpers. We already have the hardware, just need the software which is currently being deployed. You disagree with any of this?

 

[Brofist]

I believe it'll only be viable in a year or so. There are no games currently out, that can't run on PC. Literally none. There are no games breaking physics since on consoles that can't be done on PC, or done better. People Warriors don't realize this.

I think it’ll be even longer than that before game design fully utilizes it. You’ll see some gimmicky world hopping stuff for the next year at best.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Comprehension issues? DonJuanSchlong ?

 

[Shmunter]

Comprehension issues? DonJuanSchlong ?

He’s not the sharpest tool in the shed. He uses the Empathy reaction thinking it must mean something else completely.

Good god, look at all his agro spam in this thread denouncing direct storage and what the Metro dev said……...because Mark Cerney said the same thing previously…..

 

[RoadHazard]

Explained in a subsequent post. It will be no coincidence that games created with only next gen consoles in mind will start to require SSD's and direct storage on the PC side.

If a developer is doing a multiplatform game it will be created with a minimum spec in mind and that minimum spec is usually the consoles. If you don't believe me have a look at the minimum spec requirements of any multiplatform game that has released over the last generation (PS4/Xbox One), they are all similar and tend to be around the level of the consoles available at the time.

This is not true, and it has never been true. The minimum spec is pretty much always low-end PCs, with consoles often sitting on Medium settings or so (right now consoles are more like High+, but that will change as we start seeing less cross-gen stuff of course).

All of this will differ from game to game obviously, but saying that consoles are almost always the minimum target is really not true. What IS true is that games are usually made with the consoles as the primary targets, and then on PC you get settings above AND below that to cover a wide range of setups. You rarely see the console version correspond to the absolute lowest settings in the PC version. MAYBE toward the end of a generation, but now we're at the start of one.

 

[staticshock]

S staticshock

You took a post Intend for another user as your opening quote - as though it was aimed at you, which it wasn't, and have then proceeded to do a Lies and Truth sections by attributing your words as mine - in a straw-man fashion, and then finished with lots of my quotes - that in their positions in the threads they were used, I'm happy to stand by, even the ones that you have now changed my opinion on, like the volumetric fx costs.

But I am okay with any of the moderation team (like @Mod of War ) to read from the beginning of the Inside nanite thread, and this thread and make a judgement on my posts in their intended context - and happily take any feedback such as warnings/ban if that's what they deem.

I have no real take on your beef about the Ps5 and UE5 - specifically with me - but if you really want to get to the bottom of our difference of opinions without it looking like a cross-cross-thread feud - like the other guy clearly wants flame - then feel free to PM, to take it out of this DirectStorage thread - and I will restate what I think from the public info and you can tell me what you disagree with, or show me things that are wrong from what you can do in the Preview like you have done about the volumetric fx.

Every single thing I listed is a direct quote from you. Yes that’s you. I even quoted it all.

this isn’t some cross thread beef.

you said “You ignored all the info from both the nanite and lumen deep dives - from the developers, and then straw-man arguments ignoring the immense pixel-rate of a PS5 that matches the technologies, and now are trying the same with DirectStorage.”

which is a blant lie as you spent the entire thread making up one excuse or another to downplay the second demo in order to make it inferior to the first demo to invalid what others were saying about the first demo.

to do that you made up straight lies and straw men in which you accuse me of.

You started with “We'd have to see the other demo running exactly the same to backup those conclusions, because today's demo was less about nanite and lumen than the previous one” then you went forward with false statement after false statements to elevate the first demo and disparage with second demo.

Like “All the complex volumetric simulations, etc that are missing from this demo, but were present - and with much better character animations”

in response to someone who said “it's expensive to run this performance wise. They wouldn't dumb it down just because.”

Anyone could have looked at the demo and seen that they have completely identical character animations. We didn’t need to epic engineer to tell us they are using locomotion and animations from the first demo. Yet in your attempt to disparage it. You made this up.

The “complex simulation” you were referring to were the portal and the Beatles and birds. The portal is the same effect on the ancient one and the exact same Beatles were released as a toy.



These are the complex simulation that you said the 2nd demo didn’t have and the “PS5 does”

“There is nothing to look at in the 2nd demo, where is all the stuff mentioned in the Unrealfest videos - that the ps5 does, like Brian mentioning the complex simulation for the huge blue vortex at the end of the Ps5 demo? Or the complex creature behaviours reacting to the spotlight, etc, etc?”

The important thing is you are saying all of this to disparage the 2nd demo to make it inferior to the first in terms of performance requirements.

You went further saying things like “4.5second loading screen, sun light with animated cloud cover”...and just kept going.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

He’s not the sharpest tool in the shed. He uses the Empathy reaction thinking it must mean something else completely.

Good god, look at all his agro spam in this thread denouncing direct storage and what the Metro dev said……...because Mark Cerney said the same thing previously…..

Let's have a look shall we?

Microsofts inefficiency shouldn't equate a different o/s 's inefficiency tho. It's curious MS having some software breakthrough where Linux, FreebSD, macOS, etc never tackled it. Why are they all so inefficient? This software solution certainly will be scrutinized when it comes to PC - if it ever materializes. Sometimes things that sound too good to be true end up being just that. I'm officially wearing my skeptic hat on for this one, the more I think it through,.

Just stop already, this sounds like pure fear in your posts. And it's crazy you blame me for denouncing direct storage, but it's you doing it the whole time


https://www.neogaf.com/threads/next-gen-ps5-xsx-ot-console-tech-thread.1480978/post-263272466

I suspect there is potential for trouble in paradise for PC gamers next gen. If this touted low level access to ssd on next gen is legit, I’m not sure how Pc’s can mimic such a feature.

Edit, should clarify.

I’m not technical but for next gen I assume SSD as a DMA device. A 3rd level of RAM where the CPU and GPU have direct read and write access unlike a PC where it is simply a fast storage device with all reads and writes going through the o/s file system.

console : 1. Processor cache -> 2. ram -> 3. ssd -> 4. storage
pc : 1. Processor cache -> 2. ram -> 3. storage

Pure uneducated speculation on my part.

The bolded part is so true

Directly from Sweeney, this demo is fundamentally a showcase of the PS5. He directly states it’s made possible by Sony’s I/o architecture. Anything from here will need to be downscaled...no surprises for those that took the time to comprehend what Sony was going for.

Tim Sweeney;

“Sony’s made another breakthrough that in many ways is more fundamental, which is a multi-order magnitude increase in storage bandwidth and reduction in storage latency.

The PS5 puts a vast amount of flash memory very, very close to the processor. So much that it really fundamentally changes the trade-offs that games can make and stream in. And that’s absolutely critical to this kind of demo,

This is not just a whole lot of polygons and memory. It’s also a lot of polygons being loaded every frame as you walk around through the environment and this sort of detail you don’t see in the world would absolutely not be possible at any scale without these breakthroughs that Sony’s made.”

Hmmm... Wonder if this will ever run on PC... Oh wait!

Even if the api get rolled out with windows, the API itself won’t transform old hardware. To achieve the low latency and high throughput requires new hardware. That’s what this solution proposes.

Edit: misread your post, if the 20xx cards support the i/o in hardware then should be good to go.

Maybe you should read instead of assuming all the time? That way you don't have to look like a dumbass each time you are wrong, and everyone else has to correct you. Just learn to listen from now on, it'll help your "image" on the site.

You seem pretty far behind on the topic so I’ll make it as brief as possible…

PS5 has cpu free decompression ability allowing mass data to be pushed from the ssd into GPU ram.

On pc to constantly churn so much data in real-time during gameplay it would literally swamp a CPU and be significantly slower and higher latency. The approach at such high levels is impractical on pc architecture as it is today. This is the core difference.

You can still obviously stream, practically all games do it today even off hdd, it is the massive leap in this ability that epic is touting.


For all intents and purposes, an engine designed around this provides an effect of unlimited ram. You’re welcome.

Unlimited RAM? Jesus, you don't like to be correct on anything you post, do you?

 

[Azurro]

After reading this disaster of a thread, the only thing clear to me is that PC Master Race guys are incredibly insecure.

 

[Shmunter]

Let's have a look shall we?



Just stop already, this sounds like pure fear in your posts. And it's crazy you blame me for denouncing direct storage, but it's you doing it the whole time


https://www.neogaf.com/threads/next-gen-ps5-xsx-ot-console-tech-thread.1480978/post-263272466


The bolded part is so true

Hmmm... Wonder if this will ever run on PC... Oh wait!


Maybe you should read instead of assuming all the time? That way you don't have to look like a dumbass each time you are wrong, and everyone else has to correct you. Just learn to listen from now on, it'll help your "image" on the site.

Unlimited RAM? Jesus, you don't like to be correct on anything you post, do you?

Did you just quote me from 2019? Omg, I’m not so sure you are a paid shill after all. Just hardcore autistic. Apologies for victimising and cucking you so brutally. I should be more sensitive to your special needs. I will from here on.

 

[Dad_Of_Chicken]

Doom Eternal developer: more TFLOPs will be beneficial for PC gaming
Forza Horizon developer: more RAM/VRAM will be beneficial for PC gaming
Control developer: higher CPU frequencies/core count will be beneficial for PC gaming

 

[Lethal01]

Doom Eternal developer: more TFLOPs will be beneficial for PC gaming
Forza Horizon developer: more RAM/VRAM will be beneficial for PC gaming
Control developer: higher CPU frequencies/core count will be beneficial for PC gaming

It's almost like there are tons of improvements that would be very beneficial to PC gaming and better Storage performance is one of them.

 

[staticshock]

Did you just quote me from 2019? Omg, I’m not so sure you are a paid shill after all. Just hardcore autistic. Apologies for victimising and cucking you so brutally. I should be more sensitive to your special needs. I will from here on.

When someone exposes the nonsense you been spewing instead of coming out, acknowledging it and recognizing your mistakes like a grown man/woman, you throw a tantrum like a petulant child.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Well said and yes agreeing on a digital only XSX (even at 512 GB of storage) helping the consoles align to the PC’s a lot better than keeping the XSS as base target for the X Series line.

Exactly, and there’s no excuse due to MS’s abyss deep pockets. Nothing more than a business move that will hold devs back. Hope is still alive that 4 years or 5 years in devs will just ship a bad version on XSS and be done with it.

Imagine if a console comparatively as weak as the XSS had launched in 2013. People who say PC low end config was already on the cards forget that PCs weaker than a Xbox One haven’t been a consideration for most devs.

 

[rodrigolfp]

After reading this disaster of a thread, the only thing clear to me is that PC Master Race guys are incredibly insecure.

Tell us how secure the consoles warriors are while having to "beg" for Zen2, RDNA2, GDDR6, SSD for their beloved toy to exist.

 

[Azurro]

Tell us how secure the consoles warriors are while having to "beg" for Zen2, RDNA2, GDDR6, SSD for their beloved toy to exist.

Beg? Well, maybe you don't know how things work, so I'll try to explain. Basically, consoles have a lifespan of between 4 and 7 years, depending on the market conditions and such. Console makers go to vendors with a specific performance target in mind and have worked with AMD. Why? Well, AMD have been quite happy to have a guaranteed 140M+ units of their APUs to be sold and are great to collaborate with if you want a customised solution.

There, happy to help.

 

[Md Ray]

Now your hypeman Md Ray Md Ray had requested a ban after trying to shit on direct storage, the day it was announced

Uh, excuse me what?

Point me to a single post of mine where I did that.

 

[Md Ray]

If anything I've been pro DirectStorage trying to educate misinformed people like you who think more RAM is the solution.

And I requested a week's ban to divert my mind off GAF for a bit and due to personal reasons.

And you spin this into some absurd BS like I requested it because... DStorage was announced?

 

[Kenpachii]

Oh god the shit poster is back

 

[Md Ray]

Comprehension issues? DonJuanSchlong ?

That explains it.

 

[Md Ray]

Oh god the shit poster is back

??

Just because you don't comprehend my posts, it's shit posting?

Care to point where I've been wrong in this thread?

 

[Kenpachii]

??

Just because you don't comprehend my posts, it's shit posting?

Care to point where I've been wrong in this thread?

Everything you post. your whole i/o ssd / kraken slick is getting mighty tiring.

No matter how fast that SSD is, its dog shit memory and the only reason PC moves into it, is because consoles wouldn't even be able to run games if they optimized it for PC actual memory solutions. It's the sat state of market PC gaming is in and with microsoft joining it and following the console suit to keep there gamepass xbox/pc dream alive, PC gaming is royaly fucked for the next decade most likely once agian by garbage half optimized solutions that bring little progress forwards specially when 3rd party devs like those metro clowns are going to focus on RT and 4k and 60 fps on those potato boxes equiped with low end GPU's. Because the entire god dam market is riddled with "buy up everything mode".

Can't wait game worlds being designed around 4tflop of 1080p performance, while PC hardware will be sitting at 10x that mount sooner rather then later and all we get is DF gloating over a few reflections that are better if you zoom in 10 times on a pixel which nobody cares about killing 9x that performance.

This could be shocking to some of you, but those 8 core ryzens and 16gb of memory and 10tflop gpu's are already in PC's for half a decade now, yet all we see is a higher fps / resolution and shadow settings. its tiring as hell.

I honestly wish windows was runned by gaben and gaben was as motivated as that guy from microsoft to push things forwards on the PC front instead of sitting 24/7 in hybridization mode. But who am i kidding, straight up nobody seems to give 2 shits anymore in the market about pushing things forwards.

One big plus point, if you bought a new PC recently u probably will be fine for the next decade lol, its 870 all over again.

 

[Md Ray]

Everything you post.

Example from this thread? Surely you can point me at least one.

 

[Md Ray]

Uh, excuse me what?

Point me to a single post of mine where I did that.

Hello, DonJuanSchlong .

 

[martino]

 

[Md Ray]

your whole i/o ssd / kraken slick is getting mighty tiring.

Not once did I mention anything about kraken here...

No matter how fast that SSD is, its dog shit memory and the only reason PC moves into it, is because consoles

Yes and no, PC is moving towards there because currently Windows storage API is genuinely lagging behind and isn't taking full advantage of all the NVMe bandwidths due to various reasons as you can see below:

10x faster 5GB/s NVMe basically has the same load time as 500 MB/s SATA SSD.

33.5 sec on HDD to 15.8 sec on SATA SSD, 14.5 sec on NVMe SSD.

DirectStorage + HW decompression is merely "fixing" this (ofc, it's an oversimplification) by allowing games to take full advantage of the NVMe, so load times can be dramatically reduced and align with the NVMe's ~10x or so improvement. This is a GOOD thing. I don't get why it is so hard to comprehend.

You can see the result of this from NVIDIA's own benchmark from the Ampere whitepaper showing this dramatic improvement in practice. 38 sec on HDD (longer than SOTTR's above load time) to just 1.5 sec with NVMe using HW (GPU) decompression and likely an early implementation of DirectStorage...

Now, tell me how this is a shit post... Or you call them shitposts because you lack comprehension?

Do you call this shitting on DStorage DonJuanSchlong ?

EDIT: DonJuanSchlong you have anything to add/respond to this post besides adding laughing and empathy emojis? Don't be Riky and run away now.