• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Matrix - PS5 & XSX differences

Status
Not open for further replies.

Great Hair

Banned
If console fanboys are so concerned about graphics, fps, etc.. . Why don't you just game on pc?
Unimpressed Birthday GIF by Mashable
San Diego Lol GIF by San Diego Zoo Wildlife Alliance
 

Dr Bass

Gold Member
No thanks; sorry to say but one's reputation matters and he's made one off of console warring. So anything he brings up when it comes to these comparisons, IMO, is tinged with that energy, meaning it's going to be very difficult to have a legitimate conversation if referencing his stuff as the source. That's just how it is and they've made it that way.

And just for myself, there's nothing new being shed light on here. If it's performing slightly better in areas on PS5, then take your pick between the faster GPU clock, the fully-unified memory, the cache scrubbers, the higher pixel fillrate or the higher culling and triangle rasterization rate. It could be one or any mixture of those. If it's down to anything besides technical differences, take your pick between UE5 builds working better with Sony's APIs, or the team building the demo prioritizing the PS5 version as the base, which could involve more team members optimizing the PS5 version or that version having more time in development.

Fact is no one can pinpoint any one of those reasons as being the reason, and all those reasons will be equally plausible in any instance of a PS5 game performing better than a Series X game. Or, if the inverse, you can swap out some of those with Series X-specific ones like higher effective GPU RAM bandwidth, or higher texel/texture fillrate, or more CUs for GPGPU parallelized compute. If all potential factors have the exact same probability, then we're essentially spinning in circles and not isolating any specific one, and we're not helped in that regard using compromised console warrior fanboy channel content as a source in analysis.



The Coalition were brought in to help with engine-related optimizations that were then forked over into the working build benefiting Xbox and PlayStation consoles. This has already been confirmed.

People are taking "console specific optimizations" in the wrong context here.

Dr Bass Dr Bass Who cares if he has an Xbox? That doesn't invalidate him being a console warrior fanboy that focuses his content on trashing Xbox to prop up PlayStation. Maybe this is the first time you've seen his content, but I've seen his stuff over the past year or so and the quality of his stuff has just gotten worst and worst the more he's pandered to fanboyism in the community.

I've seen comparisons for myself and also looked at real websites with actual credibility when it comes to technical analysis, and from both what I've seen and what they've mentioned, there are effectively no differences in detail, geometry etc. between the two platforms. And what you won't get from channels like Thrash's are the moments pointed in some of those other comparisons, where PS5 is lacking details or has lower-LOD models in like-for-like moments compared to Series X, because there are points where that is the case.

Which of course you won't, because as has already been established, King Thrash is Sony fanboy and console warrior...and just happening to own an Xbox doesn't change that.

Couple comments. Because this is fairly straightforward. The bolded is completely your deal. You don't get to decide what someone's reputation is. You are talking about your perception of the person. You are basically admitting to not being able to accept pretty clear video evidence based on the source. That is why I said "Ad Hominem" a few posts above, which you are yet again engaging in.

Do you not think DF thrives from "console warring"? If you think they don't prop up that whole thing, you're gravely mistaken. And they also don't have "credibility" because they clearly favor Xbox/PC. Which is fine, they like that whole ecosystem more. Just about everyone has a favorite (mine is the Switch)! But hiding under the guise of being impartial experts is hilarious with those guys. They measure a couple things, point out details when it suits their bias, and ignore them when it doesn't. It's pretty obvious if you've followed them a decent amount of time. But whatever, doesn't bother me. Again I really don't care. I just like good games. Metroid Dread is one of the best games of the year IMO, if not THE best, and it's visual performance is pretty far behind what you get on the other platforms right now.

I'm not going to go digging for the videos, but please link me to the same kind of pretty detailed comparisons showing the game running better on Xbox. It needs to be just as in depth. Will gladly take a look. Again, I just do not care what runs better where. I just like to operate based on actual data/reality and not wishy washy BS.

And similarly to "thrash" apparently, I get all the platforms. And I would gladly call out Xbox stuff when it sucks, and PS stuff when it sucks, and Switch stuff when it sucks. I also mention when I think it's good. IMO there is a lot of weird stuff going on around the Xbox platform right now, and I have theories as to why, but it's not important. I just think people should be able to enjoy what they enjoy.

This guy is just pointing out stuff you don't like and you're letting your perception of him color your view of the data.
 
Is this what you fanboys have lowered yourself to? A demo of a WIP graphics engine, two versions one of which the developers have had more experience with and an absolute idiot who made this video. Seriously people this is a new low even by Gaf standard's, just wait for an actual game before making silly assumptions 🙄
 
If anything it's the PS5 version that received no console specific optimizations other than whatever Epic's engineers did to get the game running at 1080p with TSR going up to 4k.
Is this true?
If true it makes (almost) no sense except that it's easer to develop for PS5 (or squeeze more from it) than XB. Right?
 

Clear

Member
Say what you want about KingThrash, but the man has a good eye for detail. And as he points out there's no way Epic is going to show favouritism when it comes to demoing their new cross-platform engine.

That the Coalition was involved on the Xbox side shows something different is going on, and this video does illustrate a whole bunch of subtle cut-backs and/or bugs in the Xbox build.

Now you could be charitable about this and say some of these are a product of them needing to deploy 2 profiles, one for series S, one for series X and we've seen in the past sometimes some settings can end up switched or held over for no good reason, but then you'd expect to see more performance uplift from the more aggressive culling of geometry and lighting detail, the reduced denoising (the black speckling) on deep objects, the missing reflections etc.
 

DenchDeckard

Gold Member
Is that what fanboys sound like?

im gonna fire this up again and test, some interesting finds here.
 
Last edited:

Boglin

Member
If console fanboys are so concerned about graphics, fps, etc.. . Why don't you just game on pc?
A question older than time itself. I believe the answer is pretty abstract and technical, but the cornerstone would be that console fanboys care about console shit, not PC shit.
It's sort of similar to why people concerned with phone graphics don't just game on laptops.

I hear that the whole user experience is different.
 
When you're so desperate for a win that you start posting KingThrash videos :messenger_grinning_squinting:

Some people are super hurt about this draw because they expected PS5 to dominate in UE5 games after that first demo where they talked themselves into believing that it can only run on 22GB/s of certified Cerny sauce. Now that we have several confirmations that UE5 can run on ten year old SSDs, they're getting desperate.
 

Sosokrates

Founder of western console warring.
IIRC the framerate difference happens during some of the vehicular crashes. There were some other comparison videos I saw where that was noticeable.

As to why that may be the case? Well, it could be any number of reasons. The vehicle crashes have a lot of geometry transformations going on, and particles flying....going by on-paper info we know PS5 has an advantage in both areas (8.92 Gtri rast/sec vs. 7.6 Gtri rast/sec, 142.7 Gpixels/sec vs. 116 Gpixels/s), so even assuming optimizations are similar (chances are the demo is whatever slightly more optimized for PS5), there's more overhead on PS5 to handle slightly higher volumes of both without additional optimizations. Granted, that's also assuming those parts of the demo are not using mesh shading or primitive shaders; IIRC the tech breakdown did list some form of meshes used in selective areas.

So yeah, it is a possibility that some of PS5's hardware strengths are helping it in the demo, if you take the above and also consider things like the faster GPU clock, the cache scrubbers, the "unified" memory (Series isn't using "true" non-unified memories i.e like PS3, PS2, Saturn, Gamecube etc.). However, and this is something channels like KingThrash never take into consideration, it's also possible the differences could be down to current UE5 builds playing nicer with Sony's APIs, or the Warner Bros. team that led development on the demo giving some priority to the PS5 version of the build. Those are just as probable as any explanations centering on technology advantages/disadvantages, basically meaning that leading with one or the other as if that's the definitive reason is pointless.

All that said, there's no chance in hell I'm entertaining any serious "analysis" from a channel like KingThrash, because I've seen their other "analysis" and every single one of them has a very strong slant towards PlayStation, in ways that are contorted which only a fanboy would do. He does podcasts too where he and his panel routinely nitpick the absolute smallest issues surrounding Xbox and exaggerate them as if they are critical failures, meanwhile glossing over or ignoring even some of the smaller, milder missteps/choices of Sony or quickly mentioning them before moving on.

His content is just way too negatively biased towards Xbox in general to consider his opinions on this type of stuff with any serious weight. That's why I said earlier his stuff is a clown circus, and they've basically squandered any chance of having legitimate credibility as a legit game analyst, technical or otherwise. And again, Digital Foundry have pointed out that at least a decent bit of graphical differences come from data load randomness; there are points in like-for-like scenes where PS5 is missing textures or geometry details on objects compared to Series X, does that suddenly mean the PS5 has hardware deficiencies?



King Thrash's problem isn't about preferring PlayStation, it's that he has a vehemently negative bias against Xbox. If you've seen any of his other content you'd know this, the guy is a known shit-stirrer in Twitter spaces that are nothing but console war drama. He got blown out for disingenuous takes on Forza Horizon 5 despite only having 4% into the game, and that's just one example.

The intent behind his analysis like this one are pretty clear: to prop up PlayStation, and attack Xbox. That's going way beyond just having a healthy preference; channels like Mystic have a PlayStation preference but they are very tasteful about it and don't use it to negatively attack other platforms. There are PlayStation channels like MarlonGamingNation that are maybe a bit more..."hyper"...in some takes, but they are a lot more level-headed towards Xbox than KingThrash despite having a PlayStation preference.

So hopefully, that should be good indicator for why "analysis" from this channel in particular (tho it's not the only one of its ilk) should be regarded as a joke. And yes, if there were hyper Xbox fanboy channels trying to pass along disingenuous "analysis" that essentially boiled down to dragging down PlayStation to prop up Xbox, I'd call them out too. However there aren't very many that I know of which do that type of thing (I'm sure they exist, though).
Yes the fps on both systems tanks when u hit cars, but when driving about or zooming about on the drone the PS5 is way more stable then the XSX without VRR.

Its like during navigation dips on PS5 are a minority but on XSX dips are the majority when moving fast.
 
So you don't answer the question and just say he has bias, again. His opinions are one thing. The things presented are another. Are they not factual?

Facts can be subjected to fit an agenda, it happens regularly in some fields of statistics. Why would it not happen with someone of King's reputation?


It's also been mentioned that Coalition's work was spun into the main UE5 fork as well, meaning at least some of their optimization efforts were applied to the PS5 version. DF mention this in their analysis video.

Couple comments. Because this is fairly straightforward. The bolded is completely your deal.

No it's not; look, I know Thrash's content well because I've seen it over the past year. So when I say he's a console warrior fanboy, I have very good evidence to support this. I don't throw that around to just anyone, because if it were just to people with a PlayStation preference like you seem to think, I would be calling other channels like Mystic, MarlonGamingNation, etc. the same thing but I clearly am not in those cases.

Maybe try to familiarize yourself with his library of work and learn about his Twitter antics before thinking I'm just making stuff up because of a single take in his recent video?

You don't get to decide what someone's reputation is.

Lol yes I do, when that person has a documented history of engaging in certain tactics when it comes to console gaming discussion. When there is a clear pattern to their body of work (especially of the past six or so months) that is drenched in fanboyism logic and antics, and it's put out for public consumption, I as a member of the public am able to pass judgement on that body of work and actions which in turn shapes their reputation.

If he doesn't want to be viewed as a warring fanboy by some, he should stop acting like one. But because he acts like one, it taints any attempt at what should be a fair and balanced analysis, rendering it effectively useless.

You are talking about your perception of the person. You are basically admitting to not being able to accept pretty clear video evidence based on the source. That is why I said "Ad Hominem" a few posts above, which you are yet again engaging in.

That perception is built from seeing months of his content and noticing a pattern in that content, including prior analysis he's made which were factually incorrect in several areas and debunked by legitimate sources with much better technical understanding on these sort of things. At the very least, if there were things in those other analysis that confirmed some of his own, the others were able to actually explain the how & why behind them much better, and do so without stoking the worst in fanboyism sucking the life out of discussion.

So because of that perception, based on a readily available body of work that would lead anyone with relatively even preferences for both brands to realize his negative bias towards one of said brands, it's very hard to take his "findings" with any weight because we have seen him try similar findings in the past and end up being wrong about them, or misframing them. I can't help it if you aren't familiar with his work outside of this one video.

Do you not think DF thrives from "console warring"? If you think they don't prop up that whole thing, you're gravely mistaken. And they also don't have "credibility" because they clearly favor Xbox/PC.

If they "clearly favor Xbox/PC", then why have several Sony developers done hour-long interviews with them? Why have they outright admitted various games running better on PS5? Why did they do a technical video on Halo Infinite that lambasted the game's visuals as not being "that good"? You're selectively ignoring all instances of their analysis that don't fit with your narrative on them, just so you can try saying they're no better than King Thrash when in reality, they're eons superior, even if they aren't perfect.

Which is a weird bar to set because no one is perfect :/. And yes, they do have more credibility, they actually know the technical terms for various graphical features and techniques for one thing. There are some other PlayStation-centric people like Optimus Code who, well they may troll a lot themselves, but they also at least know how to technically articulate visual and performance details in these games, that brings credibility to them.

I'm not going to go digging for the videos, but please link me to the same kind of pretty detailed comparisons showing the game running better on Xbox. It needs to be just as in depth. Will gladly take a look. Again, I just do not care what runs better where. I just like to operate based on actual data/reality and not wishy washy BS.

If you're not willing to do a simple Youtube search for Matrix comparisons, yet you're willing to go to great lengths to defend Thrash's video and have a discourse in a technical thread, then I don't know what else to say to you. That's just super odd.

And similarly to "thrash" apparently, I get all the platforms. And I would gladly call out Xbox stuff when it sucks, and PS stuff when it sucks, and Switch stuff when it sucks. I also mention when I think it's good. IMO there is a lot of weird stuff going on around the Xbox platform right now, and I have theories as to why, but it's not important. I just think people should be able to enjoy what they enjoy.

Well I'm glad you would, and I do the same. I've been critical of Xbox over the year, I've been critical of PlayStation and I've been critical of Nintendo. And, I've also given lots of props to all three. You will not find that with channels like King Thrash, which thrive off of stoking fanboyism, so they'll never really give Microsoft or Nintendo props or if so, do so begrudgingly or with back-handed compliments.

If you want to put out your theories about what you think is going on with Xbox, feel free to do so. However, I sure as hell hope you have better sourced examples to back those theories up than King Thrash, because that would hurt your theories, not help them.

This guy is just pointing out stuff you don't like and you're letting your perception of him color your view of the data.

Lol, this has little to nothing to do with them point out what "I don't like". That's a disingenuous claim. The problem is that he has a reputation which precedes him, of being a console warring fanboy, who has multiple times done outright baseless criticisms on Xbox-related games just to stir the pot and flame fanboy wars, while engaging in fanboy warring of his own in several Twitter spaces.

Because of that his credibility is shot to shit and he's not seen as a legitimate source of true technical analysis by many who have real understanding of console technology. This has nothing to do with him having a PlayStation preference, because his preference at this point is also a negative bias towards Xbox. And if I were alone in that, then explain why his channel has stagnated in subscribers for the past year in terms of growth? I would figure a channel not stooped in such obvious fanboy warring would gather a bigger increase in legitimate subscribers if the content quality merited it, yet it hasn't for their channel.

And it's for all the reasons I've mentioned ITT. Now if you'll excuse me, I gotta go to bed.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom