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[Rykan]

People need to stop piling on the man for giving his opinion. It doesn't really matter where he works: Game developers are very connected, and it's pretty obvious that he's talking about other developers as well.

"Hurdur he made this game that's not technically impressive, what a joke" yea and what are YOUR credentials, mfer? How many games have you made?

A lot of people seem to think that, in all cases, all you have to do is change a few settings and drop the resolution and there you go: series s version. Developers from larger and more well known developers, such as remedy, have also pointed out that its not that simple.

Personally, I don't quite understand how anyone can look at the series S specs and then honesty believe that it will have no impact on game development.

 

[Drizzlehell]

Ian Maclure, man. You know... from BOSSA STUDIOS?

 

[mxbison]

People thinking miminum requirements don't matter is so crazy.

Comparison to PC is silly. If your PC is too slow to run a game, that is your problem, nobody cares. Much different than having a low power console as base line that has to run the game.

 

[Putonahappyface]

Rikyy!!!!

Will be interesting to see how it all plays out in a few years.

I haven't seen him post much lately has he been banned?

 

[GHG]

They have the PS4 instead.

And after we see "ps4" on the platforms..

Just one problem though, nobody is being forced to develop for the PS4.

 

[Three]

I am looking at the dudes profile, he made that crappy I am fish game that was according to another user here, was only 30fps on series X.



How dare the Series S hold back this crappy game...

I can imagine further in the gen though, the series s may get less than desirable ports when games start taxing series X/ps5 more.

How is plague tale requiem on series s?

Bit harsh attacking the messenger. He is telling you that MANY developers are having meetings for the past year to drop the requirement. That "crappy game" released for all consoles including xbox one. He is talking about next gen games and what devs have been asking for. He's just telling you how it is even though you might not like what he's saying.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

Vast majority of games are cross gen. Fake news.

 

[Ansphn]

The Series S holds back next gen gaming and it would be made clear within 2 years when PlayStation exclusives out shine every game that is also on Series S because Microsoft is forcing that potato on gaming Devs.

Sony is going to strategically use that weakness of Xbox to make exclusive deals with 3rd party studios especially after they release PS5 Pro and the power leaves Series S even further behind.

Sony will tell 3rd party studios that are struggling with Series S why delay your games when you can make an exclusive deal with PlayStation and release your games on PS5 and PS5 Pro while figuring out how to port the PS5 version to the potato within that year exclusivity deal. Why let the potato hold you back from making millions?

 

[Godot25]

Comparison to PC is silly. If your PC is too slow to run a game, that is your problem, nobody cares. Much different than having a low power console as base line that has to run the game.

Bullshit. Devs know what hardware their audience have. And they want...you know...sell the game to the widest possible audience.

Why tf do you think EA waited 2 years to make FIFA on PC "next-gen" and devs of NBA did not make PC version of NBA 2K "next-gen" to this date?

Do you really think that if games like CS:GO, Lol or Dota 2 required RTX 2080 they would be as popular as they are now?

 

[Cyborg]

It can't be ideal but as long as the developers choose to do it it's their problem.

 

[Daytonabot]

…consoles...

Holding back the cutting-edge leaps we all want to enjoy.

He has a point.

 

[Daytonabot]

Do studios not hire talented people anymore?

Talent is measured by unnatural hair color, right?

 

[Hendrick's]

Just one problem though, nobody is being forced to develop for the PS4.

But yet the games you guys hold up as the most impressive are somehow able to run on a PS4. Seems to poke a lot of holes in your argument that the S which is much more powerful is holding games back.

 

[DenchDeckard]

if series s can run plagues tale....we good fish boy.

 

[Godot25]

if series s can run plagues tale....we good fish boy.

Yup

Series S can manage 1080p/30FPS in new Plague Tale...
...while Series X and PS5 can go to "outstanding" 1440p/30FPS

 

[Fermbiz]

I'd imagine in the next year or so, those restriction will be lifted. Developers can just skip the Series S

 

[Hobbygaming]

Laughable take.

Is it really though. Developers were already complaining before launch about the memory in the S

 

[ungalo]

Personally, I don't quite understand how anyone can look at the series S specs and then honesty believe that it will have no impact on game development.

I don't think anyone is saying that, i hope so. But it's hard to assess the full implications, what means "impact on game development". Where the whining starts and ends in this kind of statement made by game devs who bash their heads facing multiple practical problems that we don't know about but are just part of making games.

I wished Microsoft never released this console but on the other hand it does seem like a good piece of hardware for people not willing to invest a lot in a new generation that's been really bad for me so far.

 

[Godot25]

I'd imagine in the next year or so, those restriction will be lifted. Developers can just skip the Series S

Mate, you can forget about that.

Even if Series S was "limiting factor" Microsoft won't lift requirement. While exact numbers on Series X vs. Series S sales are not known, we know that in many countries (Japan, UK) Series X and Series S are neck-in-neck in terms of consoles sold.

There is no way, Microsoft will dump 9 million Series S (currently) owners.

 

[Godot25]

Is it really though. Developers were already complaining before launch about the memory in the S

And yet there is no game that is using SFS and DirectStorage.
...You know...
...main ways to get around memory limitation...

Ironic, isn't it?

 

[lyan]

Hold my Switch.

 

[mxbison]

Bullshit. Devs know what hardware their audience have. And they want...you know...sell the game to the widest possible audience.

Why tf do you think EA waited 2 years to make FIFA on PC "next-gen" and devs of NBA did not make PC version of NBA 2K "next-gen" to this date?

Do you really think that if games like CS:GO, Lol or Dota 2 required RTX 2080 they would be as popular as they are now?

EA had the ps4/xb1 versions of those games anyway so they decided to go for the maximum userbase on PC.

When devs stop doing cross-gen and focus on "next-gen" they still have to keep the series S as the base line. You really want to tell me minimum specs don't matter? Even for mobile games it's a pretty big thing in concept phase....

CS, Lol, and Dota 2 are 10+ years old...

 

[TheGodfather07]

It's funny people moan about cross gen but forget the series s is gonna hold things back for the entire gen. It was all 12tf!! Until the series s was revealed and all the teraflops talk went quiet.

 

[Razvedka]

I can believe it. I'm sure the Series S has been irritating for developers.

 

[Three]

Bullshit. Devs know what hardware their audience have. And they want...you know...sell the game to the widest possible audience.

If they wanted Series S sales they wouldn't be holding meetings asking for the requirement to be dropped. What if the Series S owners aren't the type to buy the games you make and sell? What if a large chunk of Series S owners don't buy games at all?

 

[nicoGec]

Tweets deleted, someone grabbed a screenshot?

 

[YOU PC BRO?!]

Why is it only developers of the most poorly optimised games that are having this problem?

 

[Kilau]

Just one problem though, nobody is being forced to develop for the PS4.

Just Sony studios.

 

[RoboFu]

I’m just going to leave this here …

 

[ACESHIGH]

Not surprising. Devs will always try to slack and complain about not enough resources to run their games. Indie games in particular:

"snif snif my first person horror asset flip does not run on a series S or lower end PC, we don't have enough man hours to optimize please subsidize our lack of talent, resources and management skills by buying overpowered hardware"

- invented quote but I can imagine blobber team saying it.

The cool thing is, the new next gen baseline is not the Series S but the upcoming Nintendo switch 2 which should have similar specs to an 8th gen console. Switch will have 120M users willing to migrate to a next gen portable, are they willing to leave such a large user base and money on the table?

 

[crunchyBiscuits]

Bro, it's just a click of a button to scale down to the series s. Seriously.

 

[Godot25]

If they wanted Series S sales they wouldn't be holding meetings asking for the requirement to be dropped. What if the Series S owners aren't the type to buy the games you make and sell? What if a large chunk of Series S owners don't buy games at all?

Yup. aprox. 8-9 million Series owners don't buy games. Don't play games on Game Pass (where devs are developing their games for). They are just using it as a counterweight.

I understand what devs are trying to do. They are always doing it. They "made" Microsoft raise RAM on X360 and they "made" Sony raise RAM to 8GB for PS4. They will always fight for "more flexibility." It's not malicious or anything like that.

From Microsoft's side, it is simple. Develop for both, or for none. You can develop for PS5 only and then pray that your decision to ignore second big platform will not bite you in the ass.

 

[reksveks]

I'd imagine in the next year or so, those restriction will be lifted. Developers can just skip the Series S

They may offer devs the ability to stream to series s but it ain't getting dropped.

 

[Hobbygaming]

And yet there is no game that is using SFS and DirectStorage.
...You know...
...main ways to get around memory limitation...

Ironic, isn't it?

Then the question becomes did they have access to them in the SDKs

 

[Three]

Yup. aprox. 8-9 million Series owners don't buy games. Don't play games on Game Pass (where devs are developing their games for). They are just using it as a counterweight.

What if a developer wants to sell games and not be viable only on gamepass by MS giving them a moneyhat? You clearly are out of the dev circle where this was a raised concern for being viable on xbox especially for some of the smaller devs.

From Microsoft's side, it is simple. Develop for both, or for none. You can develop for PS5 only and then pray that your decision to ignore second big platform will not bite you in the ass.

That's what they are fighting for to be able to release on Series X and PS5.

 

[PaNaMa]

Anyone have recent numbers on how what SeriesX sales unit sales are compared to Series S? Wasn't the S leading by a 3:1 margin or more?
That's a lot more game pass revenue generated, a lot more people gaming in their ecosystem, made possible by a cheaper console lowering the barrier to entry, and getting a foothold into people's homes. We might underestimate how many people primarily play Fortnite, Destiny, Apex, CoD, Minecraft - the S is perfect for them. Hell I bought one just for having xbox in a second room.

I don't think MS made a bad business decision at all. I get it. But, I do agree the RAM on the S must be a nightmare for developers and it certainly must hold back what they are able to do ... I def agree that "next-gen/current gen" is being somewhat limited because of S. MS did make their bed here, so at some point they will have to lie in it. Maybe there comes a date where X/S on a game box becomes just X. Or bleeding age 2024 game is compatible with S but via cloud only.

 

[Hobbygaming]

Some think that scaling is easy like it's a toggle. It's only "easier" for res and frames

Even Phil acknowledged that it is more work

"...Absolutely, it is work. There’s no doubt about that. The fact that you have two performance specs now, I’m not going to stand here or try to PR somebody and say two different specs is the same as having one spec. It’s not. We’re doing this because we want to expand the market."

 

[Godot25]

Then the question becomes did they have access to them in the SDKs

Of course they have access.

Yet Scorn is first game to use DirectStorage. Forspoken is second known (on PC only).

VRS 2.0 is used sparingly, Mesh Shaders is not used in any game (as far as I know). Same for SFS.

So, devs have all those unused tools and many of them are literally to get around main complaint about Series S (memory) and yet they are not using them.

 

[reksveks]

nyone have recent numbers on how what SeriesX sales unit sales are compared to Series S? Wasn't the S leading by a 3:1 margin or more?

Not sure we know, it varies wildly per market. JP is almost 50:50. Will have a look for other data points.

 

[Godot25]

What if a developer wants to sell games and not be viable only on gamepass by MS giving them a moneyhat? You clearly are out of the dev circle where this was a raised concern for being viable on xbox especially for some of the smaller devs.

That's what they are fighting for to be able to release on Series X and PS5.

I seriously doubt that "smaller devs" are pushing hardware so much that should complain about Series S. And as I said in previous post. Unless they drained every possible solution to go around limitations of Series S (which they are not) it's not really cool to complain.

They are fighting non-existent battle. Microsoft won't allow it. Anybody who thinks otherwise is clinging to false hope.

 

[FunkMiller]

The Series S holds back next gen gaming and it would be made clear within 2 years when PlayStation exclusives out shine every game that is also on Series S because Microsoft is forcing that potato on gaming Devs.

Shame that Sony are greedy cunts who want everything still cross gen and on PC, so any advantage they could have built up has been squandered thus far.

 

[Punished Miku]

Slap in one of these bad boys and we're all good. Nothing stops this train.

The entitlement is hilarious though. Ask for multiple difficulty levels and you're "entitled." But ask to have multiple millions of people's brand new game systems dropped so you can have slightly shinier graphics, and you're not at all a selfish prick apparently.

I'm all about the Series S price point. And frankly, if games have to target that system than maybe we'll see some Switch 2 ports in play also. It's better for Xbox and better for Nintendo, and better for consumers as well.

Anyone crying about Series S is trying to push out poorly optimized games that still don't look on par with Naughty Dog stuff on PS4. They want an easy out of working on optimization, and want you to foot the bill.

 

[Yoboman]

It's true I was in the meeting

 

[Mephisto40]

Problem with this is, with the Series S selling better than the Series X, it just means this 2 version launch is going to happen gen after gen after gen now, which means xbox games are going to be servery gimped for the forceable future

 

[Ezekiel_]

There's also that Rocksteady dev who called the Serers S a potato lol

https://gamerant.com/rocksteady-fleur-marty-comments-xbox-series-s-holding-back-generation/

Probably new thread worthy but I don't care enough

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

There's also that Rocksteady dev who called the Serers S a potato lol

https://gamerant.com/rocksteady-fleur-marty-comments-xbox-series-s-holding-back-generation/

This was just 4 days ago...interesting.

 

[Calverz]

Not sure series s is holding this gen back Tiago Rodrigues

 

[Godot25]

There's also that Rocksteady dev who called the Serers S a potato lol

https://gamerant.com/rocksteady-fleur-marty-comments-xbox-series-s-holding-back-generation/

Probably new thread worthy but I don't care enough

Aka.
We made a game in 2022 that looks worse that Batman Arkham Knight from 2015, made a terrible PC port and make it to work on PS5/Series X at 30FPS only, but we are gonna blame Series S

That guys?

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

Not sure series s is holding this gen back Tiago Rodrigues

So much for God of War being "held back"...

 

[YOU PC BRO?!]

Of course they have access.

Yet Scorn is first game to use DirectStorage. Forspoken is second known (on PC only).

VRS 2.0 is used sparingly, Mesh Shaders is not used in any game (as far as I know). Same for SFS.

So, devs have all those unused tools and many of them are literally to get around main complaint about Series S (memory) and yet they are not using them.

Exactly my sentiment.

Microsoft created numerous technologies for developers to utilise with the new hardware. SFS integration in particular would alleviate potential Series S RAM bottlenecks. Combined with other technologies like VRS, FSR2 and Mesh Shaders you wonder why these guys are having such a difficult time... its almost like they aren't using any of these things at all.

It must be so infuriating for the platform holder. We still have devs pushing out cross-gen games @ 4K30fps complaining that they didn't have the power to hit 60fps. At the same time they won't implement technologies like FSR2. It makes no sense at all.